Mini Normal 1923: BooneyToonz IV - Five Weeks in a Boon END

[Maestro]

I don't know his this setup was in any way approved, so I completely agree with Creative. Unless we hit a PR every night we were absolutely fucked. And every single thing I said in Twilight I meant, I stand by it 100%, even if it was posted fake-drunk.

[Maestro]

EBWOP

*I don't know HOW this setup...

[Maestro]

I don't rly have anything else to say, to anybody here.

[Sergtacos]

You're a winner in my eyes <3

<3 thanks baby

[Sergtacos]

I don't rly have anything else to say, to anybody here.

i wuv u

[Gamma Emerald]

It's no different to cop not getting a guilty on GF in the logical standings.
Either, they see the doctor killing like a SK will, and kill with knives etc, or imo a doc shouldn't be able to kill.
But it is what it is.

Malpractice?

[Sergtacos]

WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON!!!!!!!!!

[mhsmith0]

I don't know his this setup was in any way approved, so I completely agree with Creative. Unless we hit a PR every night we were absolutely fucked. And every single thing I said in Twilight I meant, I stand by it 100%, even if it was posted fake-drunk.

Similar-looking setups that have been approved:

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=29549

Spoiler:

Mini Normal 1707 - Frog Mafia!
Moderator: Fro99er
Current Update: Town Win

Playerlist
Malakittens, Town Jailkeeper, survived
ika, Mafia Goon, lynched day 5
Metal Sonic, Town Even-Night Gunsmith, survived
shaddowez, Town Ascetic Odd-Night Cop, survived
AxleGreaser, Vanilla Townie, survived
BlueBloodedToffee replaced Dizzle, Vanilla Townie, lynched day 3
Shiro, Mafia Goon, lynched day 2
Scorpious replaced Ciara24, Vanilla Townie, survived
notscience, Vanilla Townie, survived
zakk replaced satsujin, Town Backup Role Cop, lynched day 4
MaxwellPuckett replaced Nosferatu, Mafia Encryptor, lynched day 1
pistachi0n replaced VeeGee, Vanilla Townie, survived
singersigner, Vanilla Townie, survived

Spoiler:

Mini 1861: Musical Mafia
Moderator: Gamma Emerald
Current Update: Game Over [Awaiting Archiving]

Player list
Io, Vanilla Townie, lynched day 1
Dierfire replaced Elhabe21, Vanilla Townie, survived
HellloooNewman, Town Odd-Night Cop, killed night 1
Blackvoid replaced MiniDeathStar, Vanilla Townie, killed night 3
Kairal, Vanilla Townie, survived
Flubbernugget, Mafia Goon, lynched day 5
I Am Innocent, Vanilla Townie, survived
Secret Agent Jin, Vanilla Townie, lynched day 2
Naomi-Tan ShadowStep replaced Cloudkicker, Vanilla Townie, survived
-Grey-, Town Jailkeeper, killed night 2
culted, Mafia Goon, lynched day 4
massive, Town Even-Night Cop, killed night 4
Aj The Epic, Mafia Role Cop, lynched day 3

Mini Normal 1919
Moderator: ThinkBig
Current Update: Game Over [Awaiting Archiving]

Player List:
SergTacos, Vanilla Townie, killed night 2
Klazam, Vanilla Townie, survived
Trivium, Vanilla Townie, lynched day 2
Umlaut replaced Boonskiies, Town Odd-Night Cop, lynched day 4
TwoFace, Vanilla Townie, killed night 4
Empiricus, Vanilla Townie, survived
Mulch, Vanilla Townie, survived
Carcalilly, Mafia Odd-Night Roleblocker, killed night 1
Tchill13, Mafia Goon, lynched day 1
Fykus, Mafia Goon, lynched day 5
Branson, Vanilla Townie, lynched day 3
Vedith replaced shuffleplay, Town Vigilante, killed night 1
Dunkerdoodles, Town Gunsmith, killed night 3

Three times you've had something similar to the odd night cop, even night GS mechanic:

1707:
Jailkepeer, Ascetic odd night cop, even night gs, backup rolecop (troll role)
vs goon, goon, encryptor

1861:
Jailkeeper, Odd night cop, even night cop
vs role cop, goon, goon

1919:
odd night cop, gunsmith, vig
vs odd night roleblocker, goon, goon

Here:
jailkeeper, odd night cop, even night gunsmith, heavily nerfed bodyguard (can't swap targets, and asceticizes the pair if he picks wrong)
vs half a godfather, encryptor, vanilla cop (useful to find those PRs you need to kill)

In terms of mini normal balance, that's pretty much fine. I might question a bit whether odd and even cop + jailkeeper settings are just generally OP for town compared to how they get balanced, but it is in no way is MORE townsided than similar setups that have been approved in the past. "Cop can claim d1 without consequence" isn't entirely true, and it's even more true that the jailkeeper is pretty hosed if he claims d1 since only the symbiotic can save him.

Cop is also nerfed by being loyal (a roleblocker is obviously possible, even if there wasn't one in this setup), and gunsmith is HEAVILY nerfed by having a scum role that is a godfather to it. And, of course, both of those roles are nerfed by the possibility that symbiotic will choose wrong and attach to scum (and even there, you simply get MORE roles that look like there could be a roleblocker action going on). I think that this setup is fine for MS balance, and would probably approve it again. MS balance is such that towns NEED a lot of power to be competitive. Sometimes that results in town stomps, but bulk majority of the time it simply doesn't.

[Maestro]

Similar-looking setups that have been approved

This really expands my criticism, rather than refuting it. But ok?

[mhsmith0]

Looking at night actions, scum got hosed by there being a n1 fake guilty on scum. If that happens on town (always the likelier outcome ESPECIALLY given that loyal cop is fundamentally incentivized to try and find town), how much different is the game?

[mhsmith0]

Similar-looking setups that have been approved

This really expands my criticism, rather than refuting it. But ok?

Ultimately, scum have a >50% win rate in 10/3 mini normals (IIRC it's close to 60% actually). So in terms of balance, overall mini normals aren't especially townsided, they're just "townsided" compared to what players THINK should be balanced. A fair question is if this particular set of powers (jailkeeper plus odd/even cop/gs) is more powerful than given credit for (which may be a fair discussion to happen), but in general people just think things are townsided when they aren't. It's EXTREMELY common for me to review a mini normal where the following two things BOTH happen

1) People complain setup is townsided
2) Scum win with 2 or 3 of their team alive

So I tend to take balance complaints with a LOT of salt.

[Assemblerotws]

I would definitely not have had Vecna's insights, so I'm glad he replaced me.

[Boonskiies]

GG town.
Sorry scum, but since the whole thing with Garalt I was just too toxic this game. I still believe that players should never expect to be rewarded for doing nothing and I do not regret having him leave site.

@Venca - I can assure you that you calling me scum isn't what made me toxic. I get called scum in every game.

Town did pretty well, considering the setup is pretty harsh to town imo.
Outting the cop day 1 was good for them with the BG modified role.

@Boonskiies - Did we change to Gamma too late night 1?

If the gunsmith was on M, I think we would have still lost, but it would have been good to watch.
As soon as I saw there was another investigation role with no Vig, I knew it was a Gunsmith and thought we stood a good chance.

Technically Gamma should have been killed, and that's on me. I was gone for a bit, and setup a timed auto clicker to start the day and post while I slept, so that's on me. It should have been a no kill. I didn't see the Gamma change until afterwards, and from then on I just had to accept when I was going to have my activity lull. Sadly, I still think I could have saved it, and I error'd. Life got hectic as soon as both of the games I was modding came into their zenith. -.-

This was the first town victory for a BooneyToonz game, though.

[Boonskiies]

And honestly, I don't feel it was too town sided. Town generally played well, in my opinion. If one or two of the night targets had been different, then town would have been completely in a separate spot. Gamma Emerald changed from targeting Serg to Creative rather late as well, and I was able to catch that on my phone and give him the changing result. Tchill was on Gamma, so Serg easily could have been a mislynch there and the entire game would have gone differently.

[Boonskiies]

None of the investigative results here were able to get definitive clears, and I believe both GE and Klazam were aware of it, but they played in a way they could sort through even despite of that. Gamma's role would have given Klazam a guilty, too, and all the shenanigans that could have happened with DeasVail's role.

[Boonskiies]

I think the biggest thing was a lot of the town members were extremely active and able to work with each other and figure out they were town

[Vedith]

Ah no worries I was just confused. Shit happens and it wouldn't have been better overall fir us anyway.

And yeah to clarify we can't shit on the setup, I thought It was good and all 3(4) Scum played pretty poor (TB being the worst <3)

Thanks though Boonskiies, I like your games and I'll join future ones:)

[Boonskiies]

This was my first time modding a mini and a large at the same time, and damn...it was a lot to keep up with.

Because of this, I have gotten all my posts and whatnot ready to copy/past and fill in blanks from whenever I need to go on a document on my phone, so I will be able to do everything from my phone next time.

BooneyToonz V will be run very smoothly because of this, as I have some over the top roles that I want to see take place, but I could never get them approved in a normal (nor do I think they should be).

I have at least 6 more created setups that I've been working on, as setup design is kind of my favorite part of mafia. Not all of them would be in my BooneyToonz series, though, as some are theme games. I've actually created a 3-5 player variant of mafia (technically isn't mafia, but takes all the mechanics from mafia), and I think I just perfected my 16 player variant for it. It's a semi-open setup, which is different for me.

I like to give a clear theme in the game that makes the game more memorable yet doesn't actually add anything, which is why I really enjoyed the simplicity of the Virus thing. (If I was allowed to, the mafia would have been called the Virus Mafia this game), as it adds a nice touch, I feel. Along with making every day somewhat more memorable in a simple way, like here with the different colors for each day.

But yeah, I'll keep a list of the people who say they enjoy my games/pre-in, and message you when my games are coming up. Thanks everyone! I had a blast watching you all play!

[Boonskiies]

Advice please.

Also pre in me your next boon.

Also was the 1 shot doc just for fake claim purposes?

yes, it was.

I feel you played pretty well and have been drastically improving every game I've seen you in. You were a VT in the midst of PR claims and hidden info from each of the PR's, so yeah, just be confident in yourself. You avoided lynch here well.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, that Symbiotic role is funny because it's basically half of what MariaR claimed in the Birthright FE game

[Boonskiies]

Also, that Symbiotic role is funny because it's basically half of what MariaR claimed in the Birthright FE game

Yeh. Haha, it's a Seraph Knight variant.

Originally I had a lover mechanic in with it, but that was too much. I do the bargaining technique in reviews. Start big, and compromise down. Reviewers probably hate me.

[Tchill13]

Lol that bargaining comment is hilarious. I don't blame you.

[Gamma Emerald]

This was my first time modding a mini and a large at the same time, and damn...it was a lot to keep up with.

Because of this, I have gotten all my posts and whatnot ready to copy/past and fill in blanks from whenever I need to go on a document on my phone, so I will be able to do everything from my phone next time.

BooneyToonz V will be run very smoothly because of this, as I have some over the top roles that I want to see take place, but I could never get them approved in a normal (nor do I think they should be).

I have at least 6 more created setups that I've been working on, as setup design is kind of my favorite part of mafia. Not all of them would be in my BooneyToonz series, though, as some are theme games. I've actually created a 3-5 player variant of mafia (technically isn't mafia, but takes all the mechanics from mafia), and I think I just perfected my 16 player variant for it. It's a semi-open setup, which is different for me.

I like to give a clear theme in the game that makes the game more memorable yet doesn't actually add anything, which is why I really enjoyed the simplicity of the Virus thing. (If I was allowed to, the mafia would have been called the Virus Mafia this game), as it adds a nice touch, I feel. Along with making every day somewhat more memorable in a simple way, like here with the different colors for each day.

But yeah, I'll keep a list of the people who say they enjoy my games/pre-in, and message you when my games are coming up. Thanks everyone! I had a blast watching you all play!

I do like your games.

[Fykus]

Thanks boon i appreciate it

[Boonskiies]

Funny...this game took nearly exactly Five Weeks to complete. LOL