Mini Normal 1925: Complete

[Ircher]

from the power roles town got 2 clears

i think it's unfair to say town got carried by PRs

Yeah, this got discussed in the dead pt.

[Ircher]

Gg all. I had fun!

[MarioManiac4]

some say that those who go to the dead pt never return

[MarioManiac4]

also yes gg i had fun at various points

[Dierfire]

I will entertain an argument that this game design was balanced in favor of the Town. If I had to do it again, I would probably gate the Cop with X-Shot rather than Loyal because the game heavily punishes deaths of Mafia players, and it's easy for the results on Mafia players--though technically ambiguous--to be seen as sufficiently actionable for a lynch. I would also consider a Tracker of some sort, although this again reinforces the positive feedback when Mafia players are lynched.

However, I do not think that it is at all accurate to say that the game as played was won due to the power of the Town. In fact, games like this in which the Town power has so little effect compared to what is possible are, I believe, a strong argument that the reason that our Mini Normal games have such lopsided results in favor of the Mafia is that we balance the games around what the Town could do, rather than what the Town is likely to do.

[Zachstralkita]

also yes gg i had

fun

This word you use


What does it mean

[Creature]

I guess I'm more bothered that, despite killing two strong town PRs in the first two nights, by Day 5 there were already 2 confirmed town (Robb and Zach) out of five players.

[Creature]

Yeah, sometimes what town needs is more tools to fight a full scumteam but less tools to fight a smaller scumteam. Hence why I dislike some roles like jailkeeper or tracker when against one scum (though this game didn't use them fortunately).

[Dierfire]

Neither of those players would have been confirmed if Gratiae still lived. It is a fair complaint to note that the Mafia team was heavily punished for losing players.

[Gamma Emerald]

Was speccing from like day 1/day 2
good game all, everyone played well (well, except for Gratiae sorry)

[MarioManiac4]

I guess I'm more bothered that, despite killing two strong town PRs in the first two nights, by Day 5 there were already 2 confirmed town (Robb and Zach) out of five players.

That happened because two scum didn't influence the gamestate. Killing PRs is only part of the job that scum needs to do in order to win.

[Ircher]

Without Gratiae, it would likely been that Zach got mislynched or something like that.

[MarioManiac4]

also yes gg i had

fun

This word you use


What does it mean

Didnt you get the feeling when Creature flipped red

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess I'm more bothered that, despite killing two strong town PRs in the first two nights, by Day 5 there were already 2 confirmed town (Robb and Zach) out of five players.

That happened because two scum didn't influence the gamestate. Killing PRs is only part of the job that scum needs to do in order to win.

No? You place an extremely unbalanced weight on role play when day play also matters. What happens if the scumteam can't distance at all in a PR-less game?

[MarioManiac4]

I have no idea what point you're trying to make Gamma.

[Creature]

I guess I'm more bothered that, despite killing two strong town PRs in the first two nights, by Day 5 there were already 2 confirmed town (Robb and Zach) out of five players.

That happened because two scum didn't influence the gamestate. Killing PRs is only part of the job that scum needs to do in order to win.

I did only see the townreads on you being used well (and maybe RC), the rest were either mislynched, would've been mislynched if not for being PRs or towncleared.

[Zachstralkita]

Dunno as if whatever power town had was integral to us winning is kind of ludicrous tbh


Creature and Gratiae played very low effort games not a diss they just lurked a lot

Dunn played well with his fake claim it fconfused the hell out of Mario and I

I was completely right on that slot though at the beginning of the game, I nailed him. I just changed my read because of that soft lmao.

[Mulch]

Well played town! Really well played as well Dunnstral, you did super well for getting close to a win out of an impossible situation

[MarioManiac4]

Wait are you trying to say I was the only universally agreed on town and that made town unworthy of the win?
What I'm saying is that you were an easy lynch and Gratiae was an easy lynch because neither of you ever tried to fight it. Zach and Robb got cleared because of a) scum being easy lynches and b) Dunnstral's claim which is no fault of the setup's in any case.
Sure, Zach and Drum fought at one point, but that doesn't mean they would've been mislynched, or that scum wouldn't won. And in any case it's a bad idea to balance "should town have won" against mountainous.

[Creature]

It's funny I survived two days.

[MarioManiac4]

Like Robb was never getting mislynched there. There was a chance of Zach but not a huge one I think and he got self-clearing capabilities because of Gratiae anyway. The PRs didn't even have a huge effect upon the game. Town largely won because they were left to their own devices and didn't let scum get away with sitting back. Dunnstral tried to get out of this, and did very well at it, but in the end it's just really really hard to do something like that alone.

[Dierfire]

I think that it would have been possible to lynch DrumBeats D4 (if nothing else, for Gratiae to drop a hammer at L-1 while overtly claiming Mafia would be strictly superior to the actual result). With that lynch, I think that the Mafia players certainly win if the lynch required no such drastic claim, and probably win even if it did (since a lynch on firecrocer or Zachstralkita would be sufficient to end the game).

[Creature]

Huh, yeah.

Would require a slightly dumber town.

[MarioManiac4]

I think there's a 0% chance Gratiae would have done that with a partner of Zach and Firecrocer there and so it's pretty much not going to work. The partner would have to be in {Robb, Dunn} in this instance (or me but I'd be cleared to myself and i probably wouldn't get lynched i think so \o/)

[ThinkBig]

Good game. There was just too much toxicity