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[Virtuoso]

VC 1.16

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Lynching

skitter30

(3): Fykus, Thor665, BlueBloodedToffee

BlueBloodedToffee

(2): Sergtacos, humaneatingmonkey

MariaR

(3): WhyMafia, Chip Butty, Mulch

Sergtacos

(1): Mulch

Toranaga

(1): skitter30

humaneatingmonkey

(1): MariaR

Chip Butty

(1): Havo

Not Voting

(1): Misère, Toranaga

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

The day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2017-09-24 15:12:59)

Mod Notes

: Keep it fun.

[Havo]

Still trying to create doubt and throwing shade at me, I get the feeling he REALLY wanted my lynch to go thru.

It's actually why I think he's town.
I don't see scum derping in that hard on a PR, they'd be more subtle - like Skitter was.
That he so owed the push, makes me think he was town who is just oddly obsessive about the value of not allowing scum soft claims.
I'll agree that is play I disagree with, but I don't see it as likely scum play.
Thus it is anti-town.
But it is not particularly pro-scum.
Make sense?

I Agree if he'd been the only one pushing hard, since Monkey and Mulch were pushing harder They were in the forefront, I see it as him taking advantage of that less in the spotlight position to try and push it through. Then he could always say, hey, I wansn't pushing nearly as hard as Mulch.

[Havo]

Also, as far as your BBT issue goes - you just described why he is an optimal cop investigate.
Those are the slots you want to auto clear early - derp slots scum won't kill.
And if he's scum, huzzah.

Agree also, but his selfish play now dictates where I should spend an investigation.

IF he'd just play that wouldn't be the case.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Investigating me is a waste.

[Thor665]

I Agree if he'd been the only one pushing hard, since Monkey and Mulch were pushing harder They were in the forefront, I see it as him taking advantage of that less in the spotlight position to try and push it through. Then he could always say, hey, I wansn't pushing nearly as hard as Mulch.

That's an interesting take, and I see where you're coming from, but if you take that as scummy wouldn't Skitter still be the more suspect pusher?

Investigating me is a waste.

No, you investigate waste of space slots.
You're admitting that you're playing in a manner that makes you unreadable and is a good playstyle for scum.
That makes you a good investigate.

If you want to change that - you should play a different way.

[Chip Butty]

I'm not clearing Havo until we've heard from everyone D2 and there's been no cc / cop report.

[Thor665]

That's fine - we aren't lynching him till then either, so it doesn't matter whether you wish to suspect him or not until then.

[Havo]

I Agree if he'd been the only one pushing hard, since Monkey and Mulch were pushing harder They were in the forefront, I see it as him taking advantage of that less in the spotlight position to try and push it through. Then he could always say, hey, I wansn't pushing nearly as hard as Mulch.

That's an interesting take, and I see where you're coming from, but if you take that as scummy wouldn't Skitter still be the more suspect pusher?

Yes in that particular instance. But my read on Chip is based on more than just that push. The earlier posts, the hard push plus my gut.

That all together out weighs Skitter and the push.

I really didn't like Skitter pushing me to L-1. ESP with BBT lurking about. But if I had been hammered Skitter would have looked really bad and been in the crosshairs. So I'm not sure Skitter would do that as Scum.

[Mulch]

Really need a Vc

[Virtuoso]

vote counts updated

[Mulch]

VOTE: MariaR

@virt

[Virtuoso]

thanks fixed

[Mulch]

MariaR pure wagon.

[MariaR]

MariaR pure role pm.

FTFY

[Chip Butty]

That's fine - we aren't lynching him till then either, so it doesn't matter whether you wish to suspect him or not until then.

I completely agree. Just a reminder to people that he isn't cleared yet.

[MariaR]

Ok we get it he's not clear but we shouldn't keep dwelling on it cause we're not lynching him

[Sergtacos]

This died.

[Fykus]

itll give people a chance to catch up.

im starting to come round on the "havo is telling the truth" argument. also tr'ing monkey now too.

[skitter30]

@Thor:

Did you actually engage Havo/people and really explain your reasoning for why he is scum? y/n - I answer this as no, all you did was a weak case repeat of someone else and a vote.

Yes, I did, to the point that Havo himself says that my argument, at L-1, was the first 'decent accusation' against him (156).

Maria voted Chip.
Fykus voted you - but spent his time attacking Maria (which curls my toes a bit)
Mulch I can see claiming as a reaction, but he got distracted again in about ten more posts.

Maria voted me in 181, which, oddly enough, is why I linked that post. You're arguing that I opportunistically hopped on his wagon and hoped that other people would get called out for wagoning him. By putting him at L-1, I knew I would be taking the flak if I was wrong about him, which I was, and I immediately got wagoned for it. That's literally the opposite of 'keeping my hands clean'.

If I was calling the two of you a scumteam, I would agree.
Thank you for pointing out that I'm being objective, not tunneling, and considering all possibilities to find scum?

I'm pointing out that you *are* ridiculously tunneled on me, to the point that some of your other pushes don't even make sense with your push on me.

I also think that we're going around in circles.

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Reactions to various things

Looks like I'm looking for a reason? Hm apparently you didn't really read the posts carefully. I gave my reasons why Mulch could be scum. I made a strong case against him yet you disagree, why because I'm looking for a reason? The reason is in the posts, he tried to get Havo to hardclaim, which typically town doesn't do that because they don't want their god damn power role support players be killed. How is this hard to understand? I swear you people are dumb for wanting to get a hard claim in D1, fucking D1. A COP. We're gonna lose a fucking cop N1. How do you guys feel about that? Think about it, jesus christ.

This feels like an overreaction tbh. Like you're faking outrage on Havo's behalf that Mulch asked him to hardclaim.

'm starting to think I might be doing this re-read from a conf bias standpoint because now I think havo's posting is actually townie. starting with this, even:

it's actually pretty bad that I was scumreading this post before. this is a good, townie post, and once you are reading the game from the first post up to this, I can definitely see how Havo went on to find out more about what the miller is and can't really decide on a position because he has no experience with miller. I also like his thoughts on it on resolving on lylo being terrible, but thinking scum wouldn't do this d1. I'm way more comfortable with this post on re-read. I was reading too hard on havo staying on the fence, but this is clearly all very logical from his standpoint as town.

That's a lot of words to say that you were mistaken at the time and that you're townreading him now. You were scumreading him for those exact posts in real time. Feels like after he claimed, you feel the need to downplay your initial read on him and distance yourself from it even as you try to overemphasize your current townread of him.

Mulch immediately reacts with a hard town lean, which is understandable with their meta together...

But the way he brought up meta on WM "also just to note ive seen wm shoot his wad early when he had a d1 claimable role before so im inclined to think hes town here too." <- that's a little scummy actually. WM claiming anything early as town before isn't relevant meta to determine whether he'd openclaim miller as miller or play it differently, or what his range is as scum.

Can you explain why you're townreading Mulch's townlean on WM based on meta but are scumreading Fykus's? Like, what's the difference between the two?

I really didn't like Skitter pushing me to L-1. ESP with BBT lurking about. But if I had been hammered Skitter would have looked really bad and been in the crosshairs. So I'm not sure Skitter would do that as Scum.

BBT didn't start doing his thing until well after your claim, so implying that I put you to L-1 in the hopes that he would quickhammer you is a ridiculous argument.

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Other assorted observations

BBT's posts are gros. If a vig exists, BBT is an awesome shot; he's also good cop check. We should never let him slide along until LYLO.

I like Maria's catchup. I don't think I want to lynch her today.

I still like WM.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Maria

[Thor665]

Yes, I did, to the point that Havo himself says that my argument, at L-1, was the first 'decent accusation' against him (156).

Firstly - a case of 'not scumhunting' is one I'll have to agree to disagree with Havo on as far as its quality.
Secondly - no, you still didn't push him hard.

Maria voted me in 181, which, oddly enough, is why I linked that post. You're arguing that I opportunistically hopped on his wagon and hoped that other people would get called out for wagoning him. By putting him at L-1, I knew I would be taking the flak if I was wrong about him, which I was, and I immediately got wagoned for it. That's literally the opposite of 'keeping my hands clean'.

Maria tried to avoid voting you for odd reasons - true or false? Because the answer is true as far as i can see.
I also still don't see you claiming you put in work to get him lynched, which is still what I said you were trying to avoid. We're now into this 'flak' side debate, which I still don't think you absorbed a lot of either. Your example are three people besides me - one avoided voting you, one voted you while attacking someone else, one was Mulch the goldfish. Yeah - tons of assault there. Even if I agreed that was an amazing assault of power and conviction I'm not sur what it would prove. You did slip in lazily on the wagon while not pushing it.

I'm pointing out that you *are* ridiculously tunneled on me, to the point that some of your other pushes don't even make sense with your push on me.

You are claiming I'm tunneled and are using as evidence for it that my "other" pushes aren't making sense.
1. If I have "other" pushes how tunneled am I exactly?
2. Have I claimed you are scum with these "other" pushes? Because otherwise how is this an issue?
3. I still don't see the issue here.
4. You don't know what tunneling is.

So...?

[Thor665]

Why is it so important for you to desperately manage to suggest that I'm wrong on my reads?
If you're scum scared of me being accurate about you and maybe one additional buddy I totally get it.
But what's the point of being a whiny girl-childe about my reads if you're town?

@Mulch

[Mulch]

Why is it so important for you to desperately manage to suggest that I'm wrong on my reads?

If you're scum scared of me being accurate about you

and maybe one additional buddy I totally get it.
But what's the point of being a whiny girl-childe about my reads if you're town?

@Mulch

Bolded is false so no point in answering the question.

If you mean your theory on how to play mafia, yeah your bad.

What are you referring to in your underline. You've never said you scumread me except for the "perspective" slip. Why would I be scared if I'm scum of your reads if your not scumreading me?

[Mulch]

Secondly - no, you still didn't push him hard.

This is such bullshit, Skitter pushed the harder than anyone by putting them at L-1. Your tunnel of them is starting to turn scummy and they've refuted your arguements well

[Mulch]

I wonder if Maria and Thor could be scum partners. Paranoia theory but thor says they "scumread" both Maria and Skitter yet only pushes Skitter even when Maria has a bigger wagon. And then if Maria flips scum they can be like "oh, I scumread them."

Thor can you link a recent scum game?