Yes, even beyond how scummy the slot was, and the fact that it's not a normal role, this.In post 1084, skitter30 wrote:There almost for sure weren't a second source of night kills, which is why I called BS on the doc and PGO claims.
Mini Normal 1954: Iambic Tetramafia: Endgame
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The fact that dunker was my "conftown" read on page 3 should have given you some clue lolIn post 1086, Jingle wrote:
This post was why it took me so long to figure out that ETL was a mason, btw. I thought IS had crumbed and was too busy patting myself on the back for catching it.In post 175, ironstove wrote:UC Voyager easy town read. You can mark myself and UC off as town for the rest of this game.
I was too afraid you were scum early on to drop any bigger hints than that, and I figured it was better anyway for dunker to lay low like he was doing, and if we could coast into LYLO it would be a slam dunk.Art is cool.- CommKnight
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Yes, agreed, and this isIn post 1115, mhsmith0 wrote:Neighborizer and PT enabler are pretty fundamentally lynchable roles.
Neighborizer in particular isn't even slightly clearing, and a paranoid town can/should be VERY concerned about the possibility of a scum neighborizer rolling them (which basically happens every time you get a scum neighborizer lolol)exactlywhat happened here lol.. Paranoid town took TIAM's claim and stuffed him in a noose.Art is cool.- EspeciallyTheLies
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And if the neighborizer'd had a chance to grab a neighbor, PT cop false guilties on 4 town, vs 2 scum, since traitor had no access to the PT, which is very negative utility and actually balances the town's power against the mafia traitor being so segregated.In post 1117, mhsmith0 wrote:3) A generically non-clearing role (neighborizer) who in practice will super nerf the insane cop since he'll be EVEN MORE likely to get a guilty that isn't really one, AND you get the realistic chance that scum will be guiltied while in a hood and therefore have a great excuseArt is cool.- EspeciallyTheLies
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I don't think I've played a single game with neighbors where at least one of them wasn't scum.In post 1121, mhsmith0 wrote:And scum neighbors and neighborizers just crush these games, so town SHOULD be very wary of a neighborizer most of the time.Art is cool.- EspeciallyTheLies
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My guess in the mason PT about the first lynch was two on, one off. so cool to see some mafia theory working. if only i'd had the right two peopleIn post 478, jjh927 wrote:TwoInAMillion LYNCHtaiho, Wickedestjr, Dunkerdoodles, skitter30, Flubbernugget, ironstove,AwooArt is cool.- mhsmith0
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It happens with reasonable frequency. Especially when you have more like a 2-man hood.In post 1131, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
I don't think I've played a single game with neighbors where at least one of them wasn't scum.In post 1121, mhsmith0 wrote:And scum neighbors and neighborizers just crush these games, so town SHOULD be very wary of a neighborizer most of the time.
And of course if you have a town neighborizer, then it depends who they targetShowhttp://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Yeah for sure. The games I've been in have just been lucky I guessIn post 1133, mhsmith0 wrote:
It happens with reasonable frequency. Especially when you have more like a 2-man hood.In post 1131, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
I don't think I've played a single game with neighbors where at least one of them wasn't scum.In post 1121, mhsmith0 wrote:And scum neighbors and neighborizers just crush these games, so town SHOULD be very wary of a neighborizer most of the time.
And of course if you have a town neighborizer, then it depends who they targetArt is cool.- Jingle
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The win really only shows that townblocking is real and can destroy games. Like, my DD read had almost nothing to do with the masons, I would have gotten there on ETL pretty damn quick, Flubbs is good enough to shout down his own lynch long enough for me to read him, and Wicked was a hard and fast townread from like P1.
Add skitters towntelling hard (despite my paranoia there) and it was gonna be an uphill battle for scum even if it were 10:3 mountainous.
As far as power role interactions, the only reason I was even close to town by role was cause I outed D1.
2 GOT LYNCHED D1. So it wasn't at all unreasonable for:
Lynch PR D1
Shoot PR N1
Lynch VT
Shoot PR
Lynch VT
Shoot VT
LYLO.
Which is standard for 13p.
Basically, setup was 2 masons and a cop vs 2 goons and a traitor with 4 millers and the traitor was investigative immune. That's... Not town sided. It's pretty easily balanced. And the masons aren't even inherently unlynchable. If they make it to LYLO you can paranoia argue a lynch on one of them in certain situations.
Not to say that your play or transcend's was bad here, CK. You replaced in after you were pretty much fucked. But that had more to do with the only people who were active early all being town and correctly recognizing each other as such than any power role interactions. Even if Tai had been full goon, there would likely have been the same result, just due to PoE based on town being really towny.This is a Parachute.- jjh927
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SO many of the scenarios which make it balanced happened. Not only did Flubbernugget out himself and a mason (and by extension the other mason) in day 2, if he hadn't been killed in night 2 he was going to get the false negative on Taiho."As best I can tell, jjh is some kind of wizard with mind control powers." -Jingle- jjh927
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I mean yes, if you were killed in night 1 by a scumteam that weren't stuck in a revolving door, then in day 2 we would be looking at 2 PRs down, the masonry would no longer be able to privately communicate, and the masonry and the only investigative would be all but known to people paying attention."As best I can tell, jjh is some kind of wizard with mind control powers." -Jingle- Jingle
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Scum would literally have been better off not even knowing about the existence of the traitor. And not just any particular set of scum either; none of the many pairs of eyes even mentioned Taiho as a possible traitor.
Meanwhile Taiho was on basically all the powertown lynchlists"As best I can tell, jjh is some kind of wizard with mind control powers." -Jingle- Jingle
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In post 125, Jingle wrote:get shot by his own scumteam because "he was so town we'd never be able to get him lynched",In post 910, Transcend wrote:
Lol but scum don't get night killedIn post 908, Jingle wrote:I mean, still hoping to get nightkilled cause it’s pretty obvious I’m an enabler at this point, but the game should get more and more playable as we burn through chaff.In post 911, Jingle wrote:I have in fact been nightkilled as scum before. More importantly, my alignment is pretty clearly town here.
Holy fuck. HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? Transcend was right, I claimed scum to the scumteam twice, and in a way that was only obvious to them.In post 920, Transcend wrote:unless this dude is ic or something there's no reason to be dick riding him because every single post he's made is a mafia claimThis is a Parachute.- jjh927
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Subject: Mini Normal 1954: Mason PT
I didn't really know how to explain the Two thing better. He's sketchy as town. He has a meta of looking scummy as town. So I don't think that looking scummy the way he did here is AI if I can point to him making similar posts and having similar exchanges elsewhere as town. A lot of it was bad. A lot of it was scummy looking. But he does that as town, so I don't know if being bad or scummy makes him scum. Like, imo, being that scummy as town is almost null because he's *always* that scummy as town.EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
skitter- at first, i really felt that she was town. total gut read; i liked the questions being asked. HOWEVER, upon ISO review post-flip, i see an early bias to TIAM being town, as if she knew he was town, and that prompted her to call the votes on him "easy" as a way to throw suspicion on the whole group of voters. it didn't click at the time, but now knowing it changes how it looks. especially considering there were only two people voting him at the time - taiho, who voted because he didn't like that two wrote something along the lines of "woo double wagons" and me, who voted him for tonal variance and being generally full of himself, which indicated to me hidden knowledge and satisfaction in it. obviously i was wrong, but the point is, she said that on PAGE 5. when there was literally nothing better besides maybe her own wagon. but somehow the counterwagon to HERSELF was "opportunistic"? i know she asked me some lazy questions, but i wonder if she actively engaged those voters (me and taiho) in better ways. if she just threw that out there and then didn't chase it down, that would be more evidence against her. this is a more complicated read i think, mostly because there are pieces there that feel town and pieces that feel scummy.
Another way I can try to figure out his alignment is to look at the pushes on him. If I were scum, that's probably one of the first places I'd look to push a mislynch. So bad votes and bad pushes on him might imply that people were looking for an easy mislynch. Tai's vote was opportunistic, based on almost nothing, and was never re-evaluated. She never commented on it again after making it. I don't really know how to explain 'oppurtunistic' better - her vote and the fact that it stayed on him felt wrong in the gamestate, and is exactly where I'd expect scum to votepark because they can point to all of his sketchy behavior as a reason for why they're voting him. It's just, I dunno, lazy, and is just kinda an out for taking other, more controversial stances. Like I've seen scum doing it a lot, but I can't really explain just why I feel it's bad. The fact that the counterwagon was myself didn't really have much to do with why I thought it was opportunistic.
I thought your push was bad because you were basing a lot of it on meta when I can point to numerous instances of him doing the exact same thing as town in other games, so his meta doesn't back the claim that his behavior makes him scum.- skitter30
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In retrospect, this is hilarious lolololIn post 1142, Jingle wrote:In post 125, Jingle wrote:get shot by his own scumteam because "he was so town we'd never be able to get him lynched",In post 910, Transcend wrote:
Lol but scum don't get night killedIn post 908, Jingle wrote:I mean, still hoping to get nightkilled cause it’s pretty obvious I’m an enabler at this point, but the game should get more and more playable as we burn through chaff.In post 911, Jingle wrote:I have in fact been nightkilled as scum before. More importantly, my alignment is pretty clearly town here.
Holy fuck. HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? Transcend was right, I claimed scum to the scumteam twice, and in a way that was only obvious to them.In post 920, Transcend wrote:unless this dude is ic or something there's no reason to be dick riding him because every single post he's made is a mafia claim- Jingle
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In post 1143, jjh927 wrote:Jfc this perspective is only clear to me now that you've pointed it out.
While your brain was saying "Please nightkill me I want to die" your mouth was saying "Don't nightkill me because I'm the traitor"
skitter - my push on two was legit bad. but it was all i had to go on at the time. to go from apathetic, "we've already lost" to one-two over is fantastic and i think a lot of it had to do with strong town players correctly reading each other. it's great to see that happen as so often wins happen due to role interactions which is less satisfying imo, for both sides. i think you were great and you were especially good at trying to communicate your thoughts which i really liked. i think you could be really strong if you keep it upArt is cool.- Flubbernugget
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