Mini Normal 1963 - List Mod Mafia Game Over

[Chip Butty]

At least one scum must be in the one-on, one-off group, which is
[Chip, skitter, Flubber, wave, Taco, 2IAM]

what do you mean by this and "one-on, one-off group"?

On one of the lynch wagons, and off the other.

[Sergtacos]

Interesting factoid

: me, skitter, and Flubber follow the same pattern. On the Mulch lynch, off Lalendra.

does this sound scummy? it does to me.

That we follow the same pattern, or that I pointed it out?

The bolded part is what made it sound scummy to me.

[Sergtacos]

At least one scum must be in the one-on, one-off group, which is
[Chip, skitter, Flubber, wave, Taco, 2IAM]

what do you mean by this and "one-on, one-off group"?

On one of the lynch wagons, and off the other.

i still dont understand

at least one scum must be blah blah and then u give us choices even with ur name there, you telling us that you see yourself having the probability of being scum?

[Sergtacos]

idk if what i said made any sense, but my point is, did you accidentally give us a hint that you could be scum? Would like to hear from others about this.

[wavemode]

At least one scum must be in the one-on, one-off group, which is
[Chip, skitter, Flubber, wave, Taco, 2IAM]

Wow way to narrow it down

You've basically solved the game

[Flubbernugget]

I respect you guys wanting to try and solve the game but there's no way to infer anything from TIAM's hammer. All we really have is that this game is a lost cause if they're town.

I'll vote in a few days because there's a few good posts here like chip's most recent ones but I'm not expecting much and I'm kinda demotivated atm.

[Sergtacos]

I respect you guys wanting to try and solve the game but there's no way to infer anything from TIAM's hammer. All we really have is that this game is a lost cause if they're town.

I'll vote in a few days because there's a few good posts here like chip's most recent ones but I'm not expecting much and I'm kinda demotivated atm.

bet you'll get motivated if we lynch scum right? vote 2 in a million

[TwoInAMillion]

There's no hard evidence on me and lynching me will probably lose us the game. I strongly suggest looking elsewhere.

[wavemode]

There's no hard evidence on me

HA HA HA HA

[wavemode]

That said, I am leaning more tiam town and seph scum at this point. The instant TIAM push off the back of the Lalendra Lynch is a strategy to end this game immediately

[wavemode]

I will have more to say when I'm not on my phone but I think the instant willingness to put tiam at L-3 is a scummy sort of impatience. Town would be more wary of our precarious mylo situation

[Sergtacos]

could it be that wave, 2inamillion and skitter be the scum team?! :O wave defending 2million, skitter defending 2 million. hmmmm

[Sephiroth]

I don't think putting someone at -3 is a significant risk given the general level of activity, my level of activity during the week, and my level of certainty that TIAM is scum. I unvoted because Skitter was adamant and keeping my vote there isn't going to have a major impact. I don't like the hammer and that claim smells like B.S. to me. If TIAM truly was the backup RB wouldn't he know that he would be fairly safe yesterday? Someone who legitimately has a power role doesn't say things like:

And yeah, i did have an excuse because I didn't want to be mislynched and Lelandra was acting really scummy.

and

I felt like the odds of Lelandra being town vs. the odds of me being lynched necessitated it.

Because a) they were at 1 vote? and b) THEY HAVE A CLAIM THEY CAN MAKE.

Do you seriously believe that town backup RB TIAM quickhammers Lalendra out of fear of being lynched, at 1 vote, with a PR claim in his back pocket? And then comes in and drops the claim first thing today now that their lynch IS imminent? Does that not demonstrate that they know what they're SUPPOSED to do when feeling threatened with a lynch?

[TwoInAMillion]

It was likely enough. And I was 75% certain lelandra was scum.

[Sergtacos]

Seph, vote him.

[Sephiroth]

Serg and Chip are the best bets for SK. Dark horse candidate is Skitter but I'm still pretty convinced Skitter is town.

TIAM is clearly scum.

Wave sure smells like TIAMs partner to me. Yesterday, right before quick hammer, Wave mentions that he could vote TIAM instead of lalendra (but really wants Serg) when there is almost no chance of a TIAM lynch. TIAM proceeds to quick hammer. Now suddenly, after a quick hammer and a nonsensical claim/explanation, and after he seems like the most likely lynch candidate, you lean town on him? While simultaneously laughing at his defenses? Sorry if I'm a little bit confused here, but how do TIAMs actions possibly turn him to a town lean?

TIAM's partners are Wavemode and one of {Implosion/{Serg, Chip}} (whichever one is not SK).

Boom.

[Sergtacos]

Wave seems town to me. Vote TIAM, Seph. whats taking u too long?

I'm not a SK. Heck, i thought minis couldnt do SK, you would've known that if you read

[Chip Butty]

Interesting factoid

: me, skitter, and Flubber follow the same pattern. On the Mulch lynch, off Lalendra.

does this sound scummy? it does to me.

That we follow the same pattern, or that I pointed it out?

The bolded part is what made it sound scummy to me.

Interesting factoid: Sephiroth, implosion, and iDanyboy were on both town lynches, consecutively and in the same order.

I am convinced that, even if we play a hundred games together, I will never understand how your mind works(?) Did you think it was scummy when I used the exact same words here?

[Chip Butty]

Will read through properly later.

[Chip Butty]

Lol by which i mean put some more thought into this. Taco has been right about Mulch and Lalendra. I...don't know what to make of that. I think we need to beware another easy mislynch, and I'm a bit worried about the push on 2IAM, while at the same time he does look scummy. Like i say, I need to read through again and think this out.

[Chip Butty]

Serg and Chip are the best bets for SK. Dark horse candidate is Skitter but I'm still pretty convinced Skitter is town.

TIAM is clearly scum.

Wave sure smells like TIAMs partner to me. Yesterday, right before quick hammer, Wave mentions that he could vote TIAM instead of lalendra (but really wants Serg) when there is almost no chance of a TIAM lynch. TIAM proceeds to quick hammer. Now suddenly, after a quick hammer and a nonsensical claim/explanation, and after he seems like the most likely lynch candidate, you lean town on him? While simultaneously laughing at his defenses? Sorry if I'm a little bit confused here, but how do TIAMs actions possibly turn him to a town lean?

TIAM's partners are Wavemode and one of {Implosion/{Serg, Chip}} (whichever one is not SK).

Boom.

This is another post I am going to have to put some thought into...

[wavemode]

Serg and Chip are the best bets for SK. Dark horse candidate is Skitter but I'm still pretty convinced Skitter is town.

TIAM is clearly scum.

Wave sure smells like TIAMs partner to me. Yesterday, right before quick hammer, Wave mentions that he could vote TIAM instead of lalendra (but really wants Serg) when there is almost no chance of a TIAM lynch. TIAM proceeds to quick hammer. Now suddenly, after a quick hammer and a nonsensical claim/explanation, and after he seems like the most likely lynch candidate, you lean town on him? While simultaneously laughing at his defenses? Sorry if I'm a little bit confused here, but how do TIAMs actions possibly turn him to a town lean?

TIAM's partners are Wavemode and one of {Implosion/{Serg, Chip}} (whichever one is not SK).

Boom.

This is so manufactured it hurts. You're angling to end this game quickly now that we're in mylo and it's so blatantly obvious. TIAM's actions have zero scum motivation and you know it. I'm scum because I'm the only one here who can put more than one iota of thought into people's actual motivations? (Even though I shouldn't *really* be the only one... Skitter can attest that TIAM did the exact same thing in Mini 1931 and was town...) And as much as I would RELISH policy lynching TIAM for always doing stupid anti-town shit...

What are your thoughts on tiam?

As in most games, I would happily lynch tiam, out of principle

As for whether he is scum or not, I have no idea

...I believe we can no longer afford it and need to think critically at this stage. Right now I doubt TIAM is scum, as he'd have no reason to basically assassinate himself with that hammer, and I also think his play is consistent with his meta.

You on the other hand are turning all shades of red. You're executing a chainsaw attack (if you will). We're in fucking mylo, and rather than expressing any interest whatsoever in gathering information, getting people's opinions, discussing a massclaim, discussing whether TIAM can confirm his role, AKA all the things we're SUPPOSED to be doing to avoid this game ending today, you are dead set on getting TIAM lynched for hammering a wagon YOU were pushing for (hard) and anyone attempting to express an alternate opinion on TIAM's alignment must be TIAM's partner. (Which, by the way LOL why would his partners even be defending him at this point? If you think I'm scum here you must think I'm a pretty shitty player... but I digress.) Your sudden aggression and utter self-certainty when the game is this close to the edge is extremely scummy.

[Sergtacos]

Nobody knows how my mind works. This post sounds WIFOMy (do you hearing people say this in your head "wine in front of me" as you see the word WIFOM or do you say this in your head " WI-FOM" like its an actual word. I like to hear it as WIFOM instead of wine in front of me.)

Anyway, back to the point. This post sounds like a WIFOM post to me. You start off with "i will never understand how your mind works." its a tone you're having that is pinging me. I must've missed that post and to answer your question about what I think of your exact same words, I think its still scummy.

[Sergtacos]

Lol by which i mean put some more thought into this. Taco has been right about Mulch and Lalendra. I...don't know what to make of that. I think we need to beware another easy mislynch, and I'm a bit worried about the push on 2IAM, while at the same time he does look scummy. Like i say, I need to read through again and think this out.

What? I don't remember townlocking/clearing Lalendra. I think I voted her. Mulch was obvious town imo. Well maybe to me because he thought I was scum because he was trying to meta read me, then he realized he was wrong. If a scum tries to false a meta read, wouldn't they keep pushing on it?

[skitter30]

Massclaim is probably a good idea.

To be quite frank, the fact that you think this is a good idea makes me think it might not be.

Despite this, I'm tending towards wanting this to happen; we're probably at endgame and we might get something useful out of it.

Popcorn this? I'd want Serg to start.

Also, is there anyone who doesn't want to lynch Two right now besides for wave?

------

So, I don't know the exact composition/breakdown of scum, but for now, I'm going to work under the assumption that it's 4-3-1. That means that amongst the 7 of you, there ought to be 3-3-1 town-scum-sk. So, the three other townies out there, can you like town it up to make this easier for me? Cuz right now nearly all of you are varying shades of scumminess to me.

Flubber - gut town. Still don't think scum!flubber starts the game the way he does. Also, that post about not posting bannable things at TIAM kinda sounds town to me tbh. No reason for him to be that pissed if he were scum, and he was apparently drunk. Like I don't see drunk scum getting that annoyed at TIAM for that quickhammer. 980 kinda bleeds town tbh.

After I went through everyone, I'm surprisingly confident on this. Going to try to understand the game on the assumption Flubber is town. So, 2-3-1, with two more townies. Town it up please.

Chip - I'm kinda drawing a blank on right now; I can't really remember much of anything you did this game off the top of my head. I do remember getting townpings when you posted earlier but I'd have to go back and check where to see why. I totally get that you're busy, but if you can post, I would appreciate it. When you're town, I feel like I can kinda tell, but I need you to post to get those vibes from you.

edit (I had started writing this last night before he posted this game day): posting from this morning is starting to give me these vibes, especially since you like actually want to try to sort through this mess. Not confidant right now, but stronger townvibes from you than like nearly everyone else.

Seph - I feel like I may have been pocketed by you tbh. I need to look at your posts again. I really, really dislike that you decided to start off voting today, given that you had thought about the possibility of an SK and that we might be in MYLO; you haven't exactly struck me as the impulsive type.

edit: wave brought this up before I managed to get a chance to do so on my computer. I'll talk about it more later.

Implosion - you're just kinda there? Like you're just making a series of mostly reasonable, safe posts, and I just don't really get any hard, controversial stances from you that you were willing to push in the face of opposition. Like everything you've posted I think is fakeable for someone who doesn't play like two/serg. I haven't seen anything inherently *townie* from you.

Wave - I still hate the way you defended wossi. It read vaguely white-knighting to me. I dislike how you sidestepped the Mulch issue. You didn't really push anything day2. (I'm aware that you disagree with this statement). No townpings from you like at any point in this game. I can see scum motivation in some of what you're doing.

edit: I like you calling out Seph on Two vote, which is kinda ick tbh. You're getting townpoints for this.

Serg - i'm pretty sure he's a lot more self-aware than he's displaying. Hated the way he treated the Mulch wagon. Hate the lolvoting. Gut tells me he may be SK.

Two - obvious

-------

And I'm not super great at set-up spec on this site, but apparently no one else is really thinking about this, so here we go.

-> two kills last night; both flipped VT. I don't think a town-aligned killer goes after wicked or dany there. Wicked's last posts were like bleeding town, and dany had been widely townread. So, non-town aligned killer = sk. (if someone has another explanation for why the two of them both died, it might be a good idea to share).

-> I can't imagine that an SK could kill tonight after killing last night. like it's a 13-player mini; there can't be *too* many extra kills. If not 1 or 2-shot, prob something like even-night or non-consecutive. (this is the point that I'm wildly guessing on, since I don't really know site meta for sks in mini normals)

-> if we lynch groupscum today (and I'm assuming 3 scum), and I'm assuming no SK kill, tomorrow we have 3-2-1, which puts us in much the same scenario as today.

-> if we lynch SK today, assuming three scum, tomorrow we have 3-3, which I think is endgame and a scum win?

So I'm pretty sure that we want to avoid trying to lynch the SK today I think? If anyone is like better-versed on this topic, feel free to correct this, because this is rampant set-up spec based on site-meta that I don't have such a great feel for yet.

Again, the fact that Seph is promoting the idea that Two might be SK and that we should therefore lynch him is kinda odd because I think we don't actually want to lynch the SK today. (although I admit I may be wrong on this point)

------

There's no hard evidence on me and lynching me will probably lose us the game. I strongly suggest looking elsewhere.

To be quite frank, if you're town, your quickhammer of lalendra almost for sure lost us the game.

Not only did you place us in MYLO, you pretty much painted yourself as an obvious mislynch target. Even if you don't get lynched today, there's nearly no way that town!Two doesn't get mislynched at some point because you look so incredibly scummy right now. And if we're in 4-3-1, barring lynching groupscum today AND scum crosskilling, we literally do not have an extra mislynch to spend on you. There's such a narrow margin for a town victory that we can't waste a lynch on town!Two at any point going forward pretty much, but I feel like your lynch is inevitable between now and game end.

Like, if you're scum, that wasn't the best move, but it isn't *that* awful from a scum viewpoint. If you're town, we're pretty much fucked.

-------

That said, I am leaning more tiam town and seph scum at this point. The instant TIAM push off the back of the Lalendra Lynch is a strategy to end this game immediately

I will have more to say when I'm not on my phone

but I think the instant willingness to put tiam at L-3 is a scummy sort of impatience. Town would be more wary of our precarious mylo situation

Serg and Chip are the best bets for SK. Dark horse candidate is Skitter but I'm still pretty convinced Skitter is town.

TIAM is clearly scum.

Wave sure smells like TIAMs partner to me. Yesterday, right before quick hammer, Wave mentions that he could vote TIAM instead of lalendra (but really wants Serg) when there is almost no chance of a TIAM lynch. TIAM proceeds to quick hammer. Now suddenly, after a quick hammer and a nonsensical claim/explanation, and after he seems like the most likely lynch candidate, you lean town on him? While simultaneously laughing at his defenses? Sorry if I'm a little bit confused here, but how do TIAMs actions possibly turn him to a town lean?

TIAM's partners are Wavemode and one of {Implosion/{Serg, Chip}} (whichever one is not SK).

Boom.

This is so manufactured it hurts. You're angling to end this game quickly now that we're in mylo and it's so blatantly obvious. TIAM's actions have zero scum motivation and you know it. I'm scum because I'm the only one here who can put more than one iota of thought into people's actual motivations? (Even though I shouldn't *really* be the only one... Skitter can attest that TIAM did the exact same thing in Mini 1931 and was town...) And as much as I would RELISH policy lynching TIAM for always doing stupid anti-town shit...

What are your thoughts on tiam?

As in most games, I would happily lynch tiam, out of principle

As for whether he is scum or not, I have no idea

...I believe we can no longer afford it and need to think critically at this stage.

Right now I doubt TIAM is scum, as he'd have no reason to basically assassinate himself with that hammer, and I also think his play is consistent with his meta.

You on the other hand are turning all shades of red. You're executing a chainsaw attack (if you will). We're in fucking mylo, and rather than expressing any interest whatsoever in gathering information, getting people's opinions, discussing a massclaim, discussing whether TIAM can confirm his role, AKA all the things we're SUPPOSED to be doing to avoid this game ending today, you are dead set on getting TIAM lynched for hammering a wagon YOU were pushing for (hard) and anyone attempting to express an alternate opinion on TIAM's alignment must be TIAM's partner.

(Which, by the way LOL why would his partners even be defending him at this point? If you think I'm scum here you must think I'm a pretty shitty player... but I digress.) Your sudden aggression and utter self-certainty when the game is this close to the edge is extremely scummy.

Wave, you're getting a lot of townpoints from me right now for pointing this out; I was getting very similar vibes as you but didn't have a chance to post about it until now. I'm just going to bold the points that I strongly agree with instead of repeating everything.

Also I replaced out of 1931, but I'm pretty sure that after I left the game he hammered the obvtown who was claiming doc (ie Eddie) and artificially cut the day short there too? (Although tbf I just reglanced at his ISO there and he like bled clueless newbtown there and it's kidna lacking here). But yeah I don't disagree that this is necessarily something he wouldn't do as town. He's so ridiculously anti-town that it's hard for me to differentiate from anti-town/bad play from him in comparison to actually scum play from him. I don't know if the quickhammer is necessarily AI for *him*. That being said, his reasoning for doing so is awful. But then, his reasoning for doing like anything has been awful in my experience.

Seph, you acknowledged that you considered the fact that we may be in MYLO and that there could well be 4 scum. Placing someone at L-3 in this context is *really* not a good look, especially since you well know that we have a million lolvoters in this game.

Its certainly possible that TIAM is SK and that would explain why their playstyle is very outside of their norm this game.

And I don't get why you're pushing that TIAM might be SK instead of groupscum here?

Also, in 990, you literally forget about Flubber?

------

Seph, vote him.

Wave seems town to me. Vote TIAM, Seph. whats taking u too long?

I'm not a SK. Heck, i thought minis couldnt do SK, you would've known that if you read

Dude, there is literally no town motivation for ending the day right now. Like everything you've said this game day is like obviously, incredibly scummy.

Also the bolded kinda feels like you were trying to fake a townslip in that you didn't know that SKs could have minis.