Mini Normal 2009: Day 6

[Nexus]

Votecount 6.1:

profii (1)

- UnaBombaH

UnaBombaH (1)

- profii

Not voting (1)

- Mathdino

With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch. Day 6 ends at 8pm BST on Sunday 1st July 2018 (expired on 2018-07-01 20:00:00)

[profii]

Just incase Math doesn't specifically, ask, the question I would like you to answer is early in the game you had a fairly solid town read on me, but obviously now you are scum-reading me somewhat. Can you define at what point in this game that read changed from town to scum?

I propably can whenever I have the time to dive into my own ISO.
I can't remember it outright, of course, but I'm certain my progression on you should be visible.
Likely a combination of PoE and all those WIFOM-y speculations you brought to the game before D4..

it's up for Math to decide, but I see nothing of substance there.

I'll be continuing through your ISO tonight anyway.

[profii]

Firstly Una, See 474 I highlighted some of Una's indiscretions--

I'd actually like to discuss that post 474, if you don't mind. I think you either misinterpreted me there, or are doing me injustice.
I feel like my thought process should've been rather transparent, and I think I actually felt even more "clear" than I usually do during D1 myself. I would only hope that it showed to others as well.

(I'd also like to point out that I called the PR-vibe from texcat before his claim, and it was one of the reasons I was very hesitant to push, not to say lynch, there. )

--there is also 586 - I don't understand what Una means by lynch a claimed doc. Did he mean the commuter role is essentially self protect like a doc? Why would you rather lynch that without a CC?

It means that once someone has claimed a PR, most prominently something like a Doc, there's usually very little to no reason to lynch them. Especially Docs - they are expected to be killed the next night anyway because scum don't want to risk missing a NK, so lynching them makes little sense.

What my 586 meant, very simply put, is that I'd rather lynch a claimed PR D1, than no-lynch.

Be it a Doc or a Commuter or whatever, if town can't get a cohesion for any other lynch D1, then we go with what we got.
I feel bad for all of us because we apparently weren't able to be productive enough, but I don't feel bad myself for the decision to vote texcat in the end.
I feel like it was lesser of the two bad.

The more I read this post it feels like pure poop

I still don’t like introducing the confusion of doc / Commuter in this metaphor
I don’t like that you said there is little reason to lynch a PR and then just did it anyway without much else said


I am fully aware it would be simple for you to turn around and say well who else was on that wagon-

My reason was not maf was in a tunnel and even continues to be after the flip, as was BBT, so forcing that to move on was better than a no lynch

I’ll just say no more on that unless Math asks - my plan is to work through the ISO - you seem to be reactive rather than proactive so obviously you will respond

I don’t particularly want to muddy the water for Math so I’ll probably only respond to anything math tells me to from then on....... phone posting so I’ll prob do 1 quote per post (sorry in advance)

[profii]

Also, I know it's easier to point fingers and try to find logical scumtrails from how yesterday went, but really think about how unlucky we got!
1. We had two notable wagons on two PR's.
2. One acted very scummy/stubborn, because they had a provable claim via a mason-buddy.
3. One claimed a PR when at L-1, and was giving off PR-vibes to at least one player before that too.
4. N_M got unexplained support NOT to be the lynch, which threw me off, but of course explaining or claiming from the masons wouldn't have been wise either.
5. We got next to no support for any wagons outside of the two, and people started to "throw scumreads around" for people who waffled AND TO PEOPLE WHO REFUSED TO WAFFLE!

Just imagine if we had actually rallied behind a lynch on a lurky and scummy slot such as...I don't know..CoA..?

I suppose you make my point a bit here in 5.

There were other options on day 1 and people got stuck but you still don’t make the point that forcing those people to rethink is only a good thing

I might go back and see if I can see which players were on the n-m mini wagon, I believe myself and Morality were there but it’s easy for me to say scum!you didn’t care about lynching Tex or N-M - wonder if I’ll find an evidence of that behaviour....

[profii]

To offer my opinion on the whole "is there X amount of scum in the wagon?" - I think it is LIKELY, just by sheer numbers.
However, I think that only profii managed to split it in a way that I can sort of agree on:

{ LA - NM - Gus - BBT } - the stubborn half

{ Wilky - Una - Profii } - the reluctant late joiners

By this divide, I think there's one scum in either side.

The most likely choice would be wilky

, and that would be in the late-joiners. I still think the way they voted for texcat is more or less NAI, but outside of that, they are becoming a scumread.

As a less likely off-chance there's profii

, but I'm open for the idea. Would be surprised, but don't think it's impossible. I dislike the way he questioned me/wilky for reasons to join wagon, when he himself did the same..!

Second to least likely is Gustavo.

I do not know what to think of them. They seem to question everyone and everything, which is sort of..towny? I think? But I do not think they have been able to help the rest of us move the forward either so..not sure there. Still a townlean, but less confident on their ability to lead town.

THE LEAST LIKELY PARANOIA-DRENCHED CHANCE is BBT.

Not really thinking this likely, but with a good reason/proof of town!Morality, this could be a thing. (at which point, hats off)

Now, I think there are TWO SCUM OFF THE WAGON.

Why?
Just by the sheer amount of inactive, lurky players.
Also by the dawning suspicion that Boon PR-read N_M - go check his turn on the slot D1 - and wanted them lynched or claiming D1.
Also because I now have no trouble believing CoA was indeed scum, and Morality would fit the bill for being their buddy.

So one on, two off.
We lynch CoA-slot today, and we'll see tomorrow how Morality flips his reads once more after the red flip, and then I think we can be certain if he is scum or not.
Much appreciated GG's.

couple of points to make here

There is a theme in your ISO where you have a pretty consistent scum read on Wilky, at least from start to here- I can’t remeber exactly how this game pans out but I’m going to assume you scum read him all the way to his death.

The thing is there are always statements like “most likely” it’s that political feel that keeps cropping up, hard to explain.

Also in this post it’s a double dipper of scum play - town cred for Wilky bussing and pointing Town in the direction of 2 scum off wagon- obviously that’s wrong because either you or I are the final scum - which you know and knew at this point of course

[profii]

In the same way you won't be answering questions related to your NM read I won't be answering questions on that.

.

This is scum

VOTE: wilky

Una was quite happy to engage with me on how he found himself voting for Tex yesterday, despite even mentioning that the queries I posed towards him were almost hypocritical because I was on the wagon too

Wilky is using the above to shut down and not have to explain himself, most likely because he is the one that snuck on the wagon to get it done therefore doesn’t have a solid explanation for not believing the claim so doesn’t want to talk to me

(Btw Una, I was on the wagon for reasons of policy which you can go look up in my ISO)

Note to self.
I get a feeling that profii WANTED me to question them to pose and angle, and since they didn't get a chance to do it, they dropped it in here.
Don't know what the implications for it necessarily are, but gonna ponder on it.

Surprised this didn’t come up when I said what made you think I was scum

Weirdly when I asked that question and you engaged I assumed you were town and Wilky scum as I was expecting only 1 scum on wagon too

So my day 1 scum read died down on you here - you seem to get suspicious of me, yet can’t reference this moment because I actually caught scum

So that makes this post look like some weird shade casting to my scum catch to try and save your pal


I think this is probably the best post so far to show me Town you scum

[profii]

Funnily enough - Morality said before that scum!profii might mean town!Una, but I think profii and Morality are playing ball here.
One is leading the other on, or they are both scum and acting well.
Just look at the vote/unvote -tango go.

I guess this explains why you never went too hard on me - If I died you know Morality wood gun for you

[profii]

Lol wood- *would*

[profii]

I’ve got a feeling I’ve been copped so I’m pleased you 2 have set your stall out

How does this even work? Two scum in wilky+Gus, and you believe a cop will come and inno you so that they have to force a different trajectory out of nowhere?

SWEEPING PREDICTION - If there's going to be a cop-claim today, with an inno on profii - THEY ARE SCUM TOGETHER.

Also @profii, what makes you so sure that voyc is the vig kill and not the other way round?

I think this is a unnecessary question.
If scum decided to kill Voyc last night, I'd say they made us a favor.
At the same time, if our Vig shot the sheriff, I'd say it was a very poor shot.

Side note:

wilky/profii back and forth around page 71(?) in general doesn't feel like T/T ever.
I MIGHT have a slight conf.bias there because they are both on the red side of my readlist, but T/S either way or a rehearsed S/S are both still on the table IMO.

Personally I think that the scum kill was on MWNN too. I wasn't insinuating you were wrong but you did get awfully defensive there. The tunnelling on you wasn't a massive thing though and you're making it here so looking at what makes sense from your answers so far scum!profii killed town!mwnn to push that scum were framing a town!profii.

This is actually very reasonable from wilky..

I’m not really down for a mass claim personally.

Interesting.
Yet it seems we do claim soon, because I was specifically asked to claim by profii?

It kind of helps scum at this point. They have already increased their chance of winning and outing the most likely last Pr increases their chances even more.

Really didn't expect this from Gus actually..?
I fully disagree - I think town really needs this "last" push at this point.
I feel like we have been incoherent, and undecisive, and a well done massclaim could help us immensely here.

Pretty sure there is no investigative so there won’t be any results.

+

Based on what has flipped and what we know,

I found one game very similar and it had an SK

. I don’t know if this game was approved before the rule change so

we have a vig or an SK and protection role

..these make me raise an eyebrow.
Gus has to have a role anyway, so maybe it's just setup spec with the info he has, but to me this seems like..TMI? Just not "uninformed".

I’m definitely not claiming before my scum reads. If we do one I’m going last.

...aand this means he claims vig/protective.

It’s Wilky/Arc/Unah.

..So we are back to this?
I thought I was becoming a townread - what gives this time?
No trouble believing wilky, arc is a ??? still but def. could be scum (with anyone), and if you add profii there we get....?

ok we are starting to see a point where your town read slips on me and you want me dead

However there is this post and another one just before where you are calling my enquiries needless - when looking back now, I’m on point for reading the scum agenda - ie killing MWNN who tunnelled me at a similar time to Una wanton was dead

But meanwhile you suggest me and Wilky could be S/T at least so if you do get me through you can go “oops must be Wilky” then “oh yeah should have gone with my gut, was scum readinghim for a lot longer” etc

Political again!

[profii]

Wilky Arc and Gus

Eh

I know you can't list yourself, but I'm confident you have 2/3 there..

I know I put that eh in that post because Gus didn’t make sense heh

[profii]

Let's just get Arc, scum will kill one of Una / Morality because Morality is absolutely right and they will use your tunneling to win

Interesting prediction.
I can see how that is flawed though, but we'll leave that 'til tomorrow.

I'd say lynch me to deal with this but it's mylo.

Easy to say then?

Wilky/Arc/BBT slot are the scum team, because Profii/Gus is a hard TvT.

Yet another version, and I still think there's at least one wrong here.
BBT-slot is possibly my hardest townread.

Since I’m basically outed (which should have been obvious day 2 and am suspicious of people still pushing me day 3) I guess this mass claim thing is a go.

Yea, you sort of spilled the beans in a definitive manner with your spec. comments this gameday.
Wouldn't have guessed your role D2 though, can't lie.

This actually makes me think scum!wilky is a lock

- I wouldn't accept NOT massclaiming today even if Gus kept insisting we don't. Not after he basically already claimed a protective role.

scum cant kill gus as he is their best chance of mislynch, but he also is a risk of kill blocking.

therefore scum have to kill me as gus will never protect me but that makes gus review his whole world view when i flip town, making him hopefully vote the right way for a town win

This is a scumpost.
Outright wording what scum can/can't - should/shouldn't do is pretty much always a bad thing to do..
If this ever comes from town, we need to discuss the pros of doing this - I see next to none.

Claiming Even night visitor

which I didn't think would have worked alongside Tex as they are two similar roles.

I have a hunch this doesn't come from town. (need to check the meaning of a visitor)
Especially since he doesn't give results outright.

This isn’t a guarantee. Arc is a confirmed scum. I’d rather lynch a slippery scum

Does this really mean that you are STILL of the opinion we aren't in a MyLo already?

why would you admit that, scum then know they can kill outside the mason freely.

they were never going to shoot the mason because you _might_ protect them... you need to give them wifom

you could obviously go rouge so lets say no more to try and salvage that wifom

for the whole post.
I'm also going to take this opportunity to joke here.

you could obviously go rouge

Rouge is French for "red" -

YOU SHOULD NEVER FRENCH-SCUM AND TELL.

1st bit - you knew morality/Una would survive here so had to have a reasonable explaination so set it up as such

But further down - you are going into Gus’ protective role, then saying I shouldn’t predict the scum moves. I’d suggest it’s the other way round!

can’t remember the context of the end part but I do recall managing the Gus-tunnel and trying to at least get him to say “well I might change my mind at night” although that might have been after he said he was a RB rather than JK

[profii]

Profii has this all planned out eh... Almost like its been planned in some sort of PT or something.

His opening post was clearly written beforehand. He definitely has been conversing with somebody to write that. That’s partly why I think he/morality are a pair.

wilky is the one he has been planning with.
I'd bet this day has been all about wilky distancing from profii.

Considering I have been scum reading Una all of d2 is that a question worth asking profii?

I'm still not 100% on Morality but it makes sense with the U-turn.
What I will say is that all 3 scum are in profii/una/morality/arc.

Profii/Una I am most sure on so will lynch in any of those today.

Will have to check the "facts" here too, but this feels like a scumpost, and a faked discussion with profii.
I can see the scumlean on Morality for the constant flipflopping, and I guess Morality/Una -scumteam would actually do something exactly like this. (=this whole dance we have had this game) :shrug:

This actually helps my thought process, because I was wondering what is the endgame for wilky-profii-arc.
Gus had been kept alive for his unwavering suspicions towards Morality -> Morality for his scumreadS on me -> me for my paranoia on Morality (and to keep the possibility of BoonUna-team alive).
If the three of us get on the same page about the BBT-slot, this game solves itself.

Also if I was scum in your mind. You wouldn’t just blindly believe my hint at a claim.

This, if anything, makes scum!profii painfully obvious!

Now I think Gus and Wilky are both voting me... if there isn't a sudden rush of votes in the next 24 hours, that means at least 1 of you is scum... Gus, if that isn't enough to convince you it's wilky... then i dont know what is

..or you are scum, and therefore you aren't in much of a risk, right?
Especially with a buddy on the wagon already..?

Profii and Wilky should consider each other lock scum at this point. One of them are scum, and it’s highly unlikely that both of them are town. Probably impossible.

Both being town impossible - agreed.
ONE of them scum - not sure..
I still think all of that could've been orchestrated. Especially if they have daytalk and are actively sparring each other.
Even their sync'd Unvotes around the time of your post fits.
Wilky is going to sleep - they want to avoid town pushing the lynch so close to actually happening that they no longer have room to backpedal.

Still ready to lynch profli. Even when I’m high and more likely to change my mind, I don’t see any town motivation in her posts still

We can go arc but she’s such an easy lynch. I’d rather get rid of somebody good at being mafia.

Still disagree with the reasoning, but good to hear there's still hope for us to actually lynch scum today.

Arcs 1925 is..like..nothing. Air.

No actual reading/casing/anything useful to the rest of us.

Your scum buddies are probably pissed at you rn.

...and in the off-chance she is town, her team is still at least disappointed..

Gus-Arc
Profii-Wilky
Unah-BBT slot

Morality/NM town.

Well...looks like this is where we’re at, fellas...

I'm honestly not sure what this post means.
Would like to hear that.

I'm as vanilla as Ed Sheeran's latest album.

Which alts are out of the closet?

This doesn't shock me as much as it would've before I started my catch-up..

2 masons, a commuter, and what's probs an N2 vig seems like a good set to me. Do we even have or expect more PR claims?

I think the vig should only claim if they were roleblocked on N1, actually.

That information is lost if their career is ended tonight.

The first line makes it seem like you KNOW what roles scum have..?
I fully believe we have a protective in Gus.
And I'm not sure I agree with the sentiment in bold either.
Confusing.

I need to go back to the bit about me and Wilky cross voting and why Morality was adamant me and Wilky was TVS - obviously Wilky flipped scum so if there is something there to prove I’m town hopefully we can dig it up - Math - you might be able to spot what Morality meant better than I can because I am thick!

[profii]

Right that’s all I’ve got time for.

Will carry on from there later this week but I don’t think there is too much left

[UnaBombaH]

At least I'm glad to see you try!
I mean, I don't see how you can turn any of that into "scumtells", but at least you are not giving up!

I'll do something similar when I have the time and energy, so likely tomorrow as promised.

[UnaBombaH]

I'll get to this today after work!
I finally have the time, now all I need is the energy..

[profii]

Over a day or so to go

Is math about still ?

[Nexus]

Votecount 6.2:

profii (1)

- UnaBombaH

UnaBombaH (1)

- profii

Not voting (1)

- Mathdino

With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch. Day 6 ends at 8pm BST on Sunday 1st July 2018 (expired on 2018-07-01 20:00:00)

Mathdino has been prodded

[profii]

I’m gonna do the end of Unas ISO but I don’t think there is a great deal and anything I’ve pointed out is probably more compelling than what I’ll find today

I can see Math has visited the site so I am starting to get concerned now

[profii]

maaaaaath

[Nexus]

Votecount 6.3:

profii (1)

- UnaBombaH

UnaBombaH (1)

- profii

Not voting (1)

- Mathdino

With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch. Day 6 ends at 8pm BST on Sunday 1st July 2018 (expired on 2018-07-01 20:00:00)

Deadline has passed and no lynch has been achieved.

Night 6 now falls. Please PM me any Night Actions. Should Mathdino fail to pick up his prod by tomorrow, he will be replaced.

[Nexus]

Now, I have agonised over this one way or another for far too long - I consulted the other list mods as well. Basically either way the result is going to suck, either for the Mafia or the Town. So what I'm going to do is do it as the game state was at the end of Day 6 - a no lynch. If you disagree with that then fine.

profii - Vanilla Townie - Killed Night 6
Mathdino - 2 shot Town Vigilante - Endgamed

UnaBombaH - Mafia Goon - Survived and Won

Apologies if this isn't the ending you wanted, but I had to do what I thought was the right thing - Mathdino failed to declare v/la until after the day ended. Take it up with the Normal List Mod if you want to complain about it any further.

[profii]

That’s ok by me - the only thing I’m bothered about is

Math - which way would you have voted?

[UnaBombaH]

I don't think (?) there's much to argue about here.
Declare the game over and everyone can move on!

Thank you very much for stepping in to mod the game Nexus!
Can you just give us the link to the dead thread and I'll very much satisfied..?

Math might've easily solved the LyLo or not, I might have had more motivation to play the MyLo/LyLo properly if my life wasn't a mess right now..
Either way, this doesn't feel much like a win to anyone I guess, but who cares?

Nexus for President/Prime Minister/Queen!

[Morality]

Lol

[Morality]

Lol

I don’t think there was a dead thread.