Open 62 - Strawberry Mafia - Game Over! before 568

[Snix]

Way to not acknowledge that I just responded to your case, Snix...

You Were Next. I figured I'd try to stifle a vote on me before turning my attention back to you.

I love pressuring people to get reactions. It works really well. And by the way, agreeing with people (especially when they're so right it hurts) is not a scumtell. Especially if that player isn't dead and therefore more than likely isn't scum. You can't really criticize connections until/unless you know an alignment involved.

I'm not trying to connect you to Neko. Far from it; because Neko, ATM, seems very pro-town. What I was trying to do was point out the fact that you just seemed to have found an easy ride to pro-towndom and hoped on. That's all.

I never pulled a 180. The two stances, that scigatt could use some pressure and that neko's tone was that of someone trying to lead the town, are not contradictory or even related. Just because I agreed with neko earlier doesn't mean I have to continue to do so for the rest of the game. If someone you think is town does something a bit suspicious, are you going to not call them out on it because you think they're town? Not so much.

It's not the stances you took it's that fact that it was really obvious he was taking us by the hand and dragging us along before the wagon had ended and yet you jumped on without saying anything about it. When finally the wagon ends you seem to have a sudden revelation.

And the fact that that's my most contributive post doesn't matter. It's page 4, calm down.

But you criticize others for it.

Why not? Are you saying my carrying on an argument that was of little (but not no) significance is indicative of alignment? That's what it seems like, given that you start your post with a vote and follow with a list of reasons why you voted that way. And it wasn't entirely pointless, anyway. You'll notice I stopped arguing when I determined that it was disintegrating into a simple difference of opinion.

Because it was pointless that's why not. No, I'm saying it helped no one and did nothing.

[klebian]

Vote Count

, powered by The Count-Counter 2000

Cephrir- 2 (xtoxm, snix)
ThAdmiral- 2 (yvonneseer, scigatt)
neko2086- 1 (marmalade)
near- 1 (malthusis)
marmalade- 1 (neko2086)
snix- 1 (near)

Not voting (4): Cephrir, ThAdmiral, jester, peers

7 to lynch.

[Xtoxm]

Do we have a deadline?

[Cephrir]

I love pressuring people to get reactions. It works really well. And by the way, agreeing with people (especially when they're so right it hurts) is not a scumtell. Especially if that player isn't dead and therefore more than likely isn't scum. You can't really criticize connections until/unless you know an alignment involved.

I'm not trying to connect you to Neko. Far from it; because Neko, ATM, seems very pro-town. What I was trying to do was point out the fact that you just seemed to have found an easy ride to pro-towndom and hoped on. That's all.

Um... no? Just because I agree with him once doesn't mean I plan to ride on his coattails all game...

I never pulled a 180. The two stances, that scigatt could use some pressure and that neko's tone was that of someone trying to lead the town, are not contradictory or even related. Just because I agreed with neko earlier doesn't mean I have to continue to do so for the rest of the game. If someone you think is town does something a bit suspicious, are you going to not call them out on it because you think they're town? Not so much.

It's not the stances you took it's that fact that it was really obvious he was taking us by the hand and dragging us along before the wagon had ended and yet you jumped on without saying anything about it. When finally the wagon ends you seem to have a sudden revelation.

I didn't have a problem with it, because he was right, pressure is good. I didn't see it as him leading the town at that point, I saw exactly what he was talking about and thought it was a pretty good idea. You are really making something out of nothing here.

And the fact that that's my most contributive post doesn't matter. It's page 4, calm down.

But you criticize others for it.

I never critisized Xtoxm, neko did. My argument with him was basically over what "contribution" means.

Why not? Are you saying my carrying on an argument that was of little (but not no) significance is indicative of alignment? That's what it seems like, given that you start your post with a vote and follow with a list of reasons why you voted that way. And it wasn't entirely pointless, anyway. You'll notice I stopped arguing when I determined that it was disintegrating into a simple difference of opinion.

Because it was pointless that's why not. No, I'm saying it helped no one and did nothing.

[/quote]
What's your point? It's not like scum are more likely to carry on pointless argueements.

You're digging pretty hard where there's nothing to dig up, Snix. Look at your response to me. Do any of those points even really indicate scuminess, nevermind the fact that they're wrong? Didn't think so.

[Jester]

Hi all, sorry about my five or so day absence. Got tapped to help with an event at work, and I'll be catching up with all of my games over the next couple of days.

That said, some early game commentary. I'm not sure I get most of what's going on on page two. I agree that sarcasm doesn't translate well over the Internet, but I'm not sure we needed to spend most of page two (with no less than six different players involved!). Cephrir again nails it with his 46, correctly pointing out that Near's whole joke and scigatt's reaction to it were indeed blown out of proportion. Cephrir, you have an excellent way of cutting through the BS, but you also come off a little... dunno... arrogant? I can see why people are suspicious of you.

neko, you immediately jump on scigatt's back for claiming to be a newbie (11), but your 25 seems inconsistent with that. If I'm reading it properly, you're both defending Near (saying he made a newbie mistake) and attacking him (saying he believes scum are idiots) in the same post. Am I reading it properly? Your 45 initially struck me as a little odd until I read your 72, at which point, I thought about it and decided that I could see why you'd want to set up pages two and three the way you did. Not a move I would have made, but I understand it. I think you're a townie, but I also think you're playing a little bit over-zealous. The one place where I think you're dead right, though, is your opinion of Xtoxm.

Xtoxm, neko isn't wrong when he says your posts are full of nothing. Why we need a whole page four of this game for you to see that, I don't know. You're definitely not scum-hunting. That doesn't make you scum, but it certainly doesn't make you pro-town.

FOS: Xtoxm

.

My own reactions to neko's experiment:
:arrow: Near, you're going way too far in trying to push bad positions and not doing enough to talk about your real suspicions. Your 63 is ridiculous. It's interesting that it seems to agree with neko's 47, though. My initial take on your 63 was that you were trying to make neko look bad. Based on that, your 15 (the hostility of which really rubbed me the wrong way), and your overly agressive vote on Snix, I think I'm gonna

vote: Near

.
:arrow: scigatt, I'm fairly confident that you're exactly what you claim to be: a newbie, and I think the "case" on you was built around nothing at all except innuendo and opportunism. Your 70 is fine. My second game, I voted just like that and I lucked into finding a scum early.
:arrow: Snix, I like your 62, which caught some of the inconsistencies around the scigatt wagon without laying it all out. I also like your 92. My early read is that you're either pro-town, or an excellent scum.
:arrow: I don't know that there was enough information in the posts from others to draw any conclusions, yet, though I took a few notes.

malthusis, I still think you're lurking in plain sight. As I said earlier, I didn't like your 20 (voting for someone because you thought they'd think you were suspicious if you didn't vote for them?), and that appears to be your only contribution to this game so far.

mod, please prod malthusis.

I don't have good reads on Peers, Marmalade, or Yvonne yet, except Yvonne seems to be pack-following a little.

And I'm caught up.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir, you have an excellent way of cutting through the BS, but you also come off a little... dunno... arrogant? I can see why people are suspicious of you.

Yeah, I've been playing like that lately. I dunno why.

[Near]

Arrow Near, you're going way too far in trying to push bad positions and not doing enough to talk about your real suspicions. Your 63 is ridiculous. It's interesting that it seems to agree with neko's 47, though. My initial take on your 63 was that you were trying to make neko look bad. Based on that, your 15 (the hostility of which really rubbed me the wrong way), and your overly agressive vote on Snix, I think I'm gonna vote: Near.

My quote @ 63:

let's get scigatt to -2.
then we lynch the last two people to put the hammer down on him!

vote scigatt

Yes, I can agree with ridiculous. But since when does ridiculous = mafia?

It's interesting that it seems to agree with neko's 47, though. My initial take on your 63 was that you were trying to make neko look bad.

That was your initial take? How about now? When I consider it, if you thought my post was a sarcastic post making fun of neko's 47, I wouldn't find it ridiculous at all. Do you disagree?

The truth is, I went with the badwagon. I hoped to get some reactions from scigatt. Random and maybe ridiculous? Maybe. Counterproductive? I don't think so.

As for #15, what hostility? It was a random voting stage, dude. Yes, perhaps I tried to look semi-smart by being sarcastic, but it was 90% joke and 10% trying to get a response.

[ThAdmiral]

I see your point about Xtoxm not posting content, just like ThAdmiral. Thing is, a lot of players post one-liners and not contribute anything to discussion (including myself sometimes). But what really separates Xtoxm and TA in my eyes, at least for now, is that TA was jumping bandwagons for the sake of it. And that puts TA that much higher on the scumlist.

I would say players like Xtoxm are just harder to get reads from, which of course, is an advantage to scum, who obviously don't want anyone to try and figure out their alignment. But I am more concerned about TA's bandwagon attempts, covered up to look like pro-town experiments.

This argument would hold water if there was actually a chance that the bandwagon would have actually ended up in a lynch of scigatt. This was never the case though.

[neko2086]

you're both defending Near (saying he made a newbie mistake) and attacking him (saying he believes scum are idiots) in the same post. Am I reading it properly?

The second part is really part of the first one, so I wasn't really attacking him there.

I don't see the case against Near as very strong. I don't think he's been the most helpful player so far, but, I don't see him doing anything particulary scummy yet. I'm just glad to see him posting seriously.

[klebian]

I am prodding malthusis

[Marmalade]

Hi. I haven't posted in a few days, but I haven't posted for a while, and will try and post at some time this afternoon, but otherwise it may be tomorrow. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[malthusis]

First, unvote.

Neko seems to be the leader of the town, but seems a bit scummy to me. The fact that he could be steering us towards where the mafia wants us to be makes me suspicous. The random scigatt wagon could have easily been a excuse to make people vote for him so the mafia could hammer him and whenever anybody asks him why he says 'Pressure him first, ask later' makes me definatly suspicous.

Near was way too sarcastic at the beginning, and hasn't contributed much besides a anti-snix post.

Cephrir seems pretty pro-town except for his opinion switch on neko during the wagon. He seems to be contributing a bit.

Snix has a been another big contributer to the thread. He seems to be totally convinced by neko, and they seem to be working together (expecially on the wagon).

Jester's few posts were very informative, but I'd like to see him post more.

Xtoxm seems to be posting for the sake of posting, and not contributing much at all. (His argument about that took up all of page 4).

There's not much info for the other people right now (and not much in general considering how long this thread's gone on).

[neko2086]

o wow.

The random scigatt wagon could have easily been a excuse to make people vote for him so the mafia could hammer him and whenever anybody asks him why he says 'Pressure him first, ask later' makes me definatly suspicous.

Yes, except it was obviously not going to lead to a lynch. I'm going to assume that the scum are thinking a little bit, and that they wouldn't in their right minds hammer a random wagon.

Cephrir seems pretty pro-town except for his opinion switch on neko during the wagon.

He's already addressed this. What about his explanation did you not like?

Snix has a been another big contributer to the thread. He seems to be totally convinced by neko, and they seem to be working together (expecially on the wagon).

I don't see that at all. What brought you to that conclusion?

Jester's few posts were very informative...

I wish I could say the same for you

but I'd like to see him post more.

that's rich

There's not much info for the other people right now (and not much in general considering how long this thread's gone on).

You have no opinion about the interaction between yvonne and thadmiral? Or just thadmiral? What about Scigatt? Peers? Marmalade? They've all posted, there just hasn't been discussion around them that much.

I notice that your analysis here depends largely on discussion that's already taken place, and even then you seem to have missed out on some things.

Who are you most suspicious of? Is there anything in particular you'd like them to address?

[Peers]

Again, there's five pages of posts here. There's going to be people who haven't been discussed yet.

[neko2086]

Of course. Does that mean they should not be discussed? What I'm saying is that malthusis, after being prodded, brings us an analysis that, in my eyes, is not very original except for his analysis of Snix. I'd like for him to elaborate on some things so that we can get a better read from him and have more discussion.

Also, Peers, in your last few posts, you seem to be most concerned with the length of the thread. Do you have any thoughts on the game yet? Do you suspect anybody in particular? Are there any concerns you'd like anyone to address?

[Xtoxm]

I don't like his analysis either.

I think he is a good lynch for today.

unvote vote malthusis

.

[Peers]

I'm just wondering why you're being so harsh on a guy who, you admit, hasn't been around a whole lot and labelled you as 'a little scummy'. You seem to have overreacted by a bit in your response to him (the "I wish I could say the same for you" seems particularly snarky and attempting to devalue his statement).

[Cephrir]

I don't like his analysis either.

I think he is a good lynch for today.

unvote vote malthusis

.

"I don't like his analysis, he's the lynch today"-- that's a bit sudden.

[ThAdmiral]

Xtomx is very curt.

Is he always this concise?

I say, Xtomx - are you being brief on purpose or is this just the way you go about your business usually?

[neko2086]

You seem to have overreacted by a bit in your response to him (the "I wish I could say the same for you" seems particularly snarky and attempting to devalue his statement).

Do you find his posts to be informative? Do you not see anything strange about somebody who posted once, needed to be prodded, posts little content, then asks somebody else to post more?

I'm not trying to devalue his statement so much as I'm trying to get more information from him. Thoroughness from everyone will only help the town.


Xtoxm, what exactly don't you like about malthusis' analysis?

[YvonneSeer]

I see your point about Xtoxm not posting content, just like ThAdmiral. Thing is, a lot of players post one-liners and not contribute anything to discussion (including myself sometimes). But what really separates Xtoxm and TA in my eyes, at least for now, is that TA was jumping bandwagons for the sake of it. And that puts TA that much higher on the scumlist.

I would say players like Xtoxm are just harder to get reads from, which of course, is an advantage to scum, who obviously don't want anyone to try and figure out their alignment. But I am more concerned about TA's bandwagon attempts, covered up to look like pro-town experiments.

This argument would hold water if there was actually a chance that the bandwagon would have actually ended up in a lynch of scigatt. This was never the case though.

That's only what you say. Scum will hop on wagons and hope that it leads to a lynch eventually. And what better way to do it than to vote the players with more votes than others and call it an experiment?

[malthusis]

Sorry I couldn't post a reply yesterday, RL invaded.

I don't like his analysis either.

I think he is a good lynch for today.

unvote vote malthusis.

Why do you not like it? Neko explained clearly why he didn't at least. And isn't that a bit sudden, to say the least? I didn't even say that you were scummy, just that you weren't contributing.

You have no opinion about the interaction between yvonne and thadmiral? Or just thadmiral? What about Scigatt? Peers? Marmalade? They've all posted, there just hasn't been discussion around them that much.

I just had time to post the main characters first, I'll get to the others on a later post.

I notice that your analysis here depends largely on discussion that's already taken place, and even then you seem to have missed out on some things.

I didn't want to be just saying the same stuff over again.

I'll answer the rest of the questions later today.

[Xtoxm]

Xtomx is very curt.

Is he always this concise?

I say, Xtomx - are you being brief on purpose or is this just the way you go about your business usually?

I don't notice that I am, but i'm not playing any different than I usually do (I think, lol), so I guess I am.

[neko2086]

Xtoxm, what exactly don't you like about malthusis' analysis

I hope you aren't ignoring me.

[Xtoxm]

I just don't like it...