In post 1917, Vedith wrote:I ignored the 4 VT thing and was underestimating town having strong roles left.
And there's the problem.
If you forget the fucking information which is mod-provided to you.
Then no duh it's going to bite you in the ass?
Scum were given the information they needed to know. There were five power roles in the game.
As one of the town players claimed to be Informed, it can generally be assumed that the player claiming that has no additional power. (Obviously, they
could
, but five extremely strong roles in the game is less likely than four strong roles plus a weaker role of Informed.)
If Creature hadn't been the N1 nightkill, you could even have pushed the narrative that Persivul was a scum traitor whose information on knowing there were four scum in the game came from being the fourth scum. Or even after the kill, but before the town PR claimfest, claimed that Persivul was a second traitor. (Which
was
an idea I proposed if the reviewer thought the idea was too scumsided.) Killing him was a mistake, because he was a known entity.
There are dozens of ways this game would've ended in a scum win. It'd only have taken ONE of them to have happened. Not killing Creature but otherwise lynching the same people. Sending the already-caught scum to do the nightkill rather than leading to another caught scum. Killing different town PRs or killing them in a different order. Handling the guilties in a different way.
Keep in mind this town had zero protective power. The watcher could catch a killer, yes, but that's not really a protective ability.
Keep in mind that the town had no way of knowing scum had no roleblocking power. They didn't, but there was no way for the vig to know a failed shot was for sure on town, or for the neighborizer to know a failed neighborize was for sure on scum.
Heck, even when it was brought up, these actions were considered soft-guilties, not hard-guilties. The PRs claiming the condemning results were willing to believe that their actions didn't necessarily condemn their guilties to being scum (even though they were in fact on scum).
This setup was, by its very nature, always going to be swingy as fuck, yes, but the game was designed to revolve around precise, tight play focusing and emphasizing strong dayplay; the town in the worst-case scenario would've had only two mislynches before lylo...and in lylo, critically,
PR results wouldn't be able to be blindly trusted
.
You had PR results outside of lylo which could be blindly followed consequence-free...but if those results were instead in lylo, suddenly it looks like scum trying to make a play for the win.
The setup was more or less designed with the idea that on D3, the town would have to use their wits to figure out what claims had merit and which claims were bogus. The setup was designed so that on D3, the town in lylo, would have some information to sort through...but the information wouldn't be able to be trusted 100%. Which would result in people scumhunting off of dayplay, rather than sheeping role actions.
Town being able to sheep role actions was pretty much the best-case scenario for them, only possible because of town getting the best night actions and scum submitting some of the worst night actions.
Run this setup more times, and in it the town fucks up and the scum DON'T fuck up almost all of the time.
