Open 66 - Quack Multiball (Game over) before 584

[Near]

Near (4) Evilgorrilaz, Aegor, hasdgfas, Jdodge
Glork (1) PyroDwarf
Aegor (1) muffinhead
JDodge (1) Near
Cream147 (2) zu_Faul, Pink Puppy
muffinhead (1) Glork
(No vote) Gorrad, Cream147
12 players total. 7 votes to lynch.

Dont you guys think JDodge is suspicious for saying "Near: why are you trying to help the scum" when i told hasd to re-read the pm and then re-read my post?

Jdodge, what were you thinking?

[Pink Puppy]

Many of you guys have COMPLETELY missed my point. I KNEW townies could not tell quacks from doctors. That was exactly where my initial confusion was when I wondered if mod was being sarcastic. Then I even said that I realized mod was being sarcastic when I looked at my pm. Looking at this, you should already KNOW that I KNEW I couldn't tell if I am a quack or a doctor.

This is what I thought you might be doing... but I still don't understand what you wanted docs/quacks to claim. I would have been like... "I don't know."

What claim would have implied scum to you? Either one??

[Aegor]

Near, what I don't understand is what it accomplishes. The mafia would just wait until a few people claimed. Also, pro-town people would be lying, which is just a terrible thing to do before there's any need. Basically, there was zero chance of catching scum, and it would have confused town incredibly. This is honestly the worst plan I've ever heard, and Glork can attest to the fact that there were some pretty bad ones in Martyr Mafia.

Unvote, Vote: Muffin

FoS: Near

for suggesting a supremely bad plan that I still don't think is unscummy.

[Near]

Many of you guys have COMPLETELY missed my point. I KNEW townies could not tell quacks from doctors. That was exactly where my initial confusion was when I wondered if mod was being sarcastic. Then I even said that I realized mod was being sarcastic when I looked at my pm. Looking at this, you should already KNOW that I KNEW I couldn't tell if I am a quack or a doctor.

This is what I thought you might be doing... but I still don't understand what you wanted docs/quacks to claim. I would have been like... "I don't know."

What claim would have implied scum to you? Either one??

Nope, I wanted all townies to claim quacks. And I thought if you claim doctor after reading my post, you'd be a scum. See below. I guess my test was too confusing...

MOST IMPORTANT: Here is my advice to you: if for some reason, you are not sure which one you are (for example if you were werewolves, I strongly recommend that you claim quack rather than a doctor. Because if you are goon or a werewolf, the natural tendency is to claim doctor, since there are more of them - so do the opposite. Actually this reason is complete bs, but it would make things easier once the cloud settles.

[Near]

Near, what I don't understand is what it accomplishes. The mafia would just wait until a few people claimed.

In my post, I said we should go by mod's list on page 1. Go down the list, claim in order.

Also, pro-town people would be lying, which is just a terrible thing to do before there's any need.

There is no harm in lying because we don't even nkow for ourselves whether or not we are quacks. Agreed?

Basically, there was zero chance of catching scum, and it would have confused town incredibly. This is honestly the worst plan I've ever heard, and Glork can attest to the fact that there were some pretty bad ones in Martyr Mafia.

I thought people can understand my post. But then I think I was wrong.

[Near]

EDWOP

To Pink Puppy. The key phrases were: "If for some reason, you aren't sure which one you are" => I was speaking to townies mostly. Then I followed it by "claim quack rather than a doctor"

Another key phrase "The reason is complete bs, but it would make things easier once the cloud settles" => This confirms that you should claim quack, then we can catch scums who probably couldn't tell that I was speaking to town when I told them to claim quack might claim doctor.

[hasdgfas]

Dont you guys think JDodge is suspicious for saying "Near: why are you trying to help the scum" when i told hasd to re-read the pm and then re-read my post?

Jdodge, what were you thinking?

No. He wasn't talking about your comment to me, he was talking about this, from what I understand:

MOST IMPORTANT: Here is my advice to you: if for some reason, you are not sure which one you are

(for example if you were werewolves, I strongly recommend that you claim quack rather than a doctor

.

That's blatantly telling the scum what to claim. Don't even try saying otherwise.

[Near]

MOST IMPORTANT: Here is my advice to you: if for some reason, you are not sure which one you are

(for example if you were werewolves, I strongly recommend that you claim quack rather than a doctor

.

That's blatantly telling the scum what to claim. Don't even try saying otherwise.[/quote]

Think. What's there for me to gain if I tell scums to claim quack. Suppose if I was a scum. Suppose if I was a townie?

Exactly. Nothing at all.

[Aegor]

Near, you are not making any sense. All of the doctors would have claimed quack. All of the scum would have also claimed quack. What exactly have we accomplished?

[Pink Puppy]

Many of you guys have COMPLETELY missed my point. I KNEW townies could not tell quacks from doctors. That was exactly where my initial confusion was when I wondered if mod was being sarcastic. Then I even said that I realized mod was being sarcastic when I looked at my pm. Looking at this, you should already KNOW that I KNEW I couldn't tell if I am a quack or a doctor.

This is what I thought you might be doing... but I still don't understand what you wanted docs/quacks to claim. I would have been like... "I don't know."

What claim would have implied scum to you? Either one??

Nope, I wanted all townies to claim quacks. And I thought if you claim doctor after reading my post, you'd be a scum. See below. I guess my test was too confusing...

But you use SCUM as an example of who should claim quack...

If you wanted town to claim quack, and scum to claim doc, you should not have said "If you're a werewolf, claim quack."

[Near]

Many of you guys have COMPLETELY missed my point. I KNEW townies could not tell quacks from doctors. That was exactly where my initial confusion was when I wondered if mod was being sarcastic. Then I even said that I realized mod was being sarcastic when I looked at my pm. Looking at this, you should already KNOW that I KNEW I couldn't tell if I am a quack or a doctor.

This is what I thought you might be doing... but I still don't understand what you wanted docs/quacks to claim. I would have been like... "I don't know."

What claim would have implied scum to you? Either one??

Nope, I wanted all townies to claim quacks. And I thought if you claim doctor after reading my post, you'd be a scum. See below. I guess my test was too confusing...

But you use SCUM as an example of who should claim quack...

If you wanted town to claim quack, and scum to claim doc, you should not have said "If you're a werewolf, claim quack."

Pink Puppy, the point was that, I thought that if townies understood what I was trying to do, they would claim quack. I explained this before. I thought all townies will claim quacks.

Secondly, I also said all scums should claim quacks. But since scums might suspect that I'm trying to get tricky I didn't they will listen to me. Some of them may claim quacks, but I thought some of them will claim doctors. My plan, then, was accuse all who claim doctors.

[Cream147]

Many of you guys have COMPLETELY missed my point. I KNEW townies could not tell quacks from doctors. That was exactly where my initial confusion was when I wondered if mod was being sarcastic. Then I even said that I realized mod was being sarcastic when I looked at my pm. Looking at this, you should already KNOW that I KNEW I couldn't tell if I am a quack or a doctor.

This is what I thought you might be doing... but I still don't understand what you wanted docs/quacks to claim. I would have been like... "I don't know."

What claim would have implied scum to you? Either one??

Nope, I wanted all townies to claim quacks. And I thought if you claim doctor after reading my post, you'd be a scum. See below. I guess my test was too confusing...

But you use SCUM as an example of who should claim quack...

If you wanted town to claim quack, and scum to claim doc, you should not have said "If you're a werewolf, claim quack."

Pink Puppy, the point was that, I thought that if townies understood what I was trying to do, they would claim quack. I explained this before. I thought all townies will claim quacks.

Secondly, I also said all scums should claim quacks. But since scums might suspect that I'm trying to get tricky I didn't they will listen to me. Some of them may claim quacks, but I thought some of them will claim doctors. My plan, then, was accuse all who claim doctors.

That plan is so insane and ambitious...well...well...I can't believe you attempted that. No, seriously,

I can't believe it.

[Aegor]

Yes, but the problem is this:

1) Townies might claim doctor, because the PMs are the same.
2) Mafia would probably claim quack anyway, because you said that if you don't know your role claim quack (how would someone not know their role? Oh yeah, the PMs are the same...). But, just in case they didn't get it, you TOLD them to claim quack. STUUUPIIIID....

[JDodge]

Dont you guys think JDodge is suspicious for saying "Near: why are you trying to help the scum" when i told hasd to re-read the pm and then re-read my post?

Jdodge, what were you thinking?

1) I'm suspicious for forgetting to quote what I was talking about, even though it has already been noted what I meant?

2) You're really not in a position to say "what were you thinking" as scum or town.

[Near]

Yes, but the problem is this:

1) Townies might claim doctor, because the PMs are the same.
2) Mafia would probably claim quack anyway, because you said that if you don't know your role claim quack (how would someone not know their role? Oh yeah, the PMs are the same...). But, just in case they didn't get it, you TOLD them to claim quack. STUUUPIIIID....

Seriously. Go back and read my post again. Read until you get it.

[Near]

Dont you guys think JDodge is suspicious for saying "Near: why are you trying to help the scum" when i told hasd to re-read the pm and then re-read my post?

Jdodge, what were you thinking?

1) I'm suspicious for forgetting to quote what I was talking about, even though it has already been noted what I meant?

2) You're really not in a position to say "what were you thinking" as scum or town.

Confirm Vote: JDodge

[PyroDwarf]

Near, I don't know about you. Such a horrible plan. It wouldn't have caught anyone, I think.
Pink puppy, surely you jest?
I'm sick so sorry about the lack of content.

Unvote, Vote:near

If he isn't scum... then I don't know.

[Glork]

PyroDwarf would be a good lynch today, too.

[Aegor]

Seriously. Go back and read my post again. Read until you get it.

I did, and I learned that it was not only a bad trap, but it was simply a plan that was entirely RETARDED.

There was NO trap. NO scum in this game is mentally challenged, so NO ONE would fall for the pathetic excuse that was your plan. It was stupid and detrimental to the town because now I'm in a position of wondering whether that moment was induced by a state of delirium or whether you are just scum.

Near, you proposed the plan that easily wins the dumbest thing I've ever read that was serious in a mafia game. You can't post one-line posts that don't explain anything or that just say that you're voting for someone. Sorry, you're on the defensive, and rightly so. You need to start giving answers. Let's start with my questions.

[Near]

1) Townies might claim doctor, because the PMs are the same.
2) Mafia would probably claim quack anyway, because you said that if you don't know your role claim quack (how would someone not know their role? Oh yeah, the PMs are the same...). But, just in case they didn't get it, you TOLD them to claim quack. STUUUPIIIID....

Aegor, two main points in your post directly conflicts with each other. You say that even townies, who actually have the pm to reference to, may claim doctor despite my post YET you say all scums will claim quacks. Furthermore, what makes you think scums will listen to me?

My reasoning went like this.
a) Townies will check his pm and know for sure that he cannot tell quack from a doctor
b) Townies will read my post and see my post where I say: " if for some reason, you are not sure which one you are (for example if you were werewolves, I strongly recommend that you claim quack rather than a doctor"
c) Since townies are not sure which one they are, townies will realize that I am actually speaking to them, and not to the scums, although I try to make it look more natural by referencing "if you were werewolves"
d) At this point, townies will wonder, but how can we catch the scums if we all claim quacks? What would this accomplish? Townie will think e)
e) A scum will not be able to check his pm to know that my post is bs. However, he might know this for other reasons: maybe he read my earlier post expressing my uncertainty of whether mod was being sarcastic or not. maybe he directly asked the mod before posting. But there is also a chance that he did neither of these things and actually think that towns people can tell quacks from doctors. (Incidentally, I believe that this probability was quite high because I was initially confused and needed to check my pm to verify that mod was indeed being sarcastic)
f) Therefore, in order to "fit in as a townie", he might pretend and claim quack or a doctor. Since, a scum who doesn't realize what the trick is because he can't check the pm, doesn't have any reason to listen to me when I say "I strongly recommend you claim quacks", he might not. He might be encouraged to do the opposite of what I say, in fact.
g) Therefore, some scums may claim doctors, although this probability is not 100%.
h) I thought townies will realize this, and go along with my plan. I hoped that this townie's belief of what my plan is would be reinforced by: "Actually this reason is complete bs, but it would make things easier once the cloud settles."

At the worst case scenario, this would be useless. But I didn't think it can hurt town.

[Near]

I was probably wrong in thinking that my plan had a good chance of "working" To be honest, if someone else had typed what I did, I probably couldn't understand what he was trying to do unless I studied it for a long time. So this is my fault.

Still, I don't think it was completely useless. At least this was non random. And despite the fact that I think aegor is wrong in many aspects, I find him pro-town. And, no, I am not trying to buddy up with him. Also, the fact that hasdgfas was able to authoritatively deny my plan makes me think he actually got the townie pm. Although, he might have asked the moderator, but then I think mod would have said something earlier than later.

I also think Jdodge is pretty suspicious for his post following my "plan" and he refuses to explain himself.

[Aegor]

Aegor, two main points in your post directly conflicts with each other. You say that even townies, who actually have the pm to reference to, may claim doctor despite my post YET you say all scums will claim quacks. Furthermore, what makes you think scums will listen to me?

No, they are not contradictory at all. Perhaps I wasn't clear. You are expecting the mafia to be so dumb as to claim doc. If you are relying on that stupidity, you must also take into account that townies are so stupid as to claim doc. Basically, you completely ignored the chance that town would make a mistake, and at the same time minimized the chance that the plan was useful by telling scum exactly what to do.

But there is also a chance that he did neither of these things and actually think that towns people can tell quacks from doctors. (Incidentally, I believe that this probability was quite high because I was initially confused and needed to check my pm to verify that mod was indeed being sarcastic)

There was NO chance of this happening. You wanted everyone to read your post carefully, in which you claim that if you don't know what your role is, claim quack. Your attempt to make it look natural failed because

the only way in which someone couldn't know their role is if the quack and doctor PMs were the same.

At the worst case scenario, this would be useless. But I didn't think it can hurt town.

What happens if a townie claims doctor? Considering the odds that you were betting on (i.e., scum being stupid), I'm surprised that you didn't account for this possibility at all.


JDodge's post made perfect sense. You told scum what to do. You sprang the trap you yourself set.

[hasdgfas]

This is too much:

confirm vote: has

Look at your pm.

unvote, vote: near

If he actually had the doctor PM, he wouldn't be trying to pull this. This is total crap and doctors should understand why.

We can't use this anymore so it doesn't matter, but as a town, how can you not know what I was trying to do? If you objected to it because it was against the rules (which i didn't know it was against the rules), then I can understand where you are coming from. Otherwise, you should have been quiet... unless of course you are trying to save your scum partner from falling into this trap.

So pretty much, you think I'm scum because I don't agree with your plan.

Also, the fact that hasdgfas was able to authoritatively deny my plan makes me think he actually got the townie pm.

Now you think I'm town because I didn't agree with your plan? What changed Near? I don't see anything that would cause you to change your mind that much that quickly. You're floundering, and I'm thinking you're scum. I have since that plan, because of that plan. Now, I have a better reason, your flip-flop for what appears to be no reason on my alignment.

[JDodge]

I answered your question, Near. Plugging your ears and going "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" is not good mafia play.

[muffinhead]

Ok glork can u plz give a reason for ur vote

Well tell me what this has got to do with the questions I asked Instead of answering what i said?
He may look like scum but with more time we would
a: become 110% that he is scum instead of 75%

I answered your questions. Also, you make this assertion yet do nothing to back it up - why would we automatically be 110% (WTF?) sure that he is scum with more time?

b: He isnt scum and we relise that after explination and lynch somone else who is more likly to be scum.

Yes, namely you at this point.

also for us to lynch him right now doesnt really give us an idea of who else is scum whether he is pro-town or not. This is y lynching him tomorro or in a week will give us an advantage.

So? We can find out tomorrow. If Near is in fact scum, then no buddy in their right mind would ever make a connection that is detectable between them. There are two scum groups, which makes it more difficult to detect who is scum based solely on Day 1 discussion.

from the top 1 at a time

Ok first u said u answered my questions. Point out exactly where u done that.

I never said we would then be 110% that he is scum. I meant that a- and b- were the 2 possiblilties which we could benefit from giving ourselves a bit more time.

How do u know that we wont make a connection in some crazy possible way. That is another reason y the more time we have the better. Finally how does me questioning u make me thenext lynch?

My reasoning went like this.
a) Townies will check his pm and know for sure that he cannot tell quack from a doctor
b) Townies will read my post and see my post where I say: " if for some reason, you are not sure which one you are (for example if you were werewolves, I strongly recommend that you claim quack rather than a doctor"
c) Since townies are not sure which one they are, townies will realize that I am actually speaking to them, and not to the scums, although I try to make it look more natural by referencing "if you were werewolves"
d) At this point, townies will wonder, but how can we catch the scums if we all claim quacks? What would this accomplish? Townie will think e)
e) A scum will not be able to check his pm to know that my post is bs. However, he might know this for other reasons: maybe he read my earlier post expressing my uncertainty of whether mod was being sarcastic or not. maybe he directly asked the mod before posting. But there is also a chance that he did neither of these things and actually think that towns people can tell quacks from doctors. (Incidentally, I believe that this probability was quite high because I was initially confused and needed to check my pm to verify that mod was indeed being sarcastic)
f) Therefore, in order to "fit in as a townie", he might pretend and claim quack or a doctor. Since, a scum who doesn't realize what the trick is because he can't check the pm, doesn't have any reason to listen to me when I say "I strongly recommend you claim quacks", he might not. He might be encouraged to do the opposite of what I say, in fact.
g) Therefore, some scums may claim doctors, although this probability is not 100%.
h) I thought townies will realize this, and go along with my plan. I hoped that this townie's belief of what my plan is would be reinforced by: "Actually this reason is complete bs, but it would make things easier once the cloud settles."

Near y do u so badly want to explain urself since now every single mafia memeber has an idea of what ur doing, so therefore it is pointless, u havnt even given it an attempt by giving it away making it pointless. Just doesnt make sense.

However i am still not quite convinced u r scum, just that feeling i get on the inside. So i am convinced my vote stays.