Mini Normal 2113 | Menalque & Co’s Favourite Places | OVER
- Frank
-
Frank Goon
- Frank
- popsofctown
-
popsofctown SheSurvivor
- popsofctown
She- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 12356
- Joined: September 23, 2008
- Pronoun: She
You were the strongman Looker told me so"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
-
popsofctown SheSurvivor
- popsofctown
She- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 12356
- Joined: September 23, 2008
- Pronoun: She
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- PenguinPower
-
PenguinPower He/Him.peng
- PenguinPower
He/Him- .peng
- .peng
- Posts: 24623
- Joined: June 15, 2016
- Pronoun: He/Him
- rb
-
rb Survivor
- rb
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 12029
- Joined: June 13, 2016
- Location: sp00ky
- mastina
-
mastina She/HerFalse Prophet
- mastina
She/Her- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
- Contact:
- PenguinPower
-
PenguinPower He/Him.peng
- PenguinPower
He/Him- .peng
- .peng
- Posts: 24623
- Joined: June 15, 2016
- Pronoun: He/Him
- mastina
-
mastina She/HerFalse Prophet
- mastina
She/Her- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
- Contact:
In post 0, implosion wrote:Menalque wrote:Hey, here’s my proposed setup for the mini normal I’d like to run:
Town
- weak doctor
- 1 shot vig
- psychologist
- 7 VT
Scum
- 1 shot commuter
- 1 shot strongman
- goon
Do I need to send you opening post/rules or would that wait for when the review thread is up?
CheersIn post 9, mastina wrote:Honestly, my first impression: if you had an all-goon scumteam, I'd probably pass the setup as is, with the thought of it being near the balanced mark (maybe slightly scumsided), albeit with the expectation that the game while theoretically balanced would probably be a scum stomp.
With a single scum power role, and/or to get a setup where I think that in practice in addition to theory the town can win, yeah, need an extra town PR.
^This was my original contribution to the game. Where the options were, either add a town PR and keep one scum PR but not the other, or don't add any PRs but have the scum be goons.In post 10, mastina wrote:To explain: against an all goon scumteam, the "probably theoretically balanced, with the expectation of a scum sweep", comes from the town roles having the ability to wreck scum, even introducing a potential "follow the cop" breaking strategy, in theory. They also synergize incredibly well.
The problem is, in practice, they probably don't. The setup against an all goon scumteam is swingy as fuck, where an early town PR death fucks the town over but a town PR using their action smartly so much as once fucks the scum over, with the theoretical equal chance of either albeit in reality probably leaning towards the town being fucked.
If you keep a scum PR to help mitigate the theoretical follow the cop, then the town needs something extra, a rather significant extra; if you want the town to have some built in backup in case of early town PR death, then the scum would indeed need a little bit of help to break the follow the cop.
So, yeah, basically I do agree: from the original setup, drop one of the scum PRS, and add a town one, and we're looking good.- Frank
-
Frank
- PenguinPower
-
PenguinPower He/Him.peng
- PenguinPower
He/Him- .peng
- .peng
- Posts: 24623
- Joined: June 15, 2016
- Pronoun: He/Him
- RadiantCowbells
-
RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth Criminal
- RadiantCowbells
He/him- Smooth Criminal
- Smooth Criminal
- Posts: 70855
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/him
- Contact:
So something that occurred to me watching this playout
Psychologist is essentially the opposite power curve of a tracker, but weaker for ~most of the game~
When there's 3 scum alive there's (even if we are presuming same person kills which is fairly common) there are 2 potential guilties and no innos.
When there's 2 scum alive there's 1 potential guilty and no innos.
When there's 1 scum alive, the role is entirely useless.
Ignoring the possibility of different scum members submitting nightkill
Now there's something to be said for it having a powerful N1 and scaling down relative to tracker which scales up but it's... really not as strong a role as you guys are giving it credit for. The weak doctor is a way way stronger role. But either way the issue here came about when the motion detector was added because I think before then even with a strongman the setup was okay and it didn't necessarily need one either? follow the cop with the weak doc on the psychologist is like using 20$ bills as facial tissues and scum commuter has a bunch of toxic interactions in this setup and no real reason to exist so not happy about it, like with or without strongman it's a pretty fair game
in the original setup town was good at efficiently picking off the weaker scum players, could ~maybe~ deepwolf hunt with the weak doctor but generally this is the kind of setup where you expect to see scums weak performers get clusterfucked and the game really comes down to the strongest scum player making it through because there's a vig a 1-guilty weak doctor and the psychologist so in a best case scenario the weak doctor is piling up innos maybe but more likely it's being used for the weak role to bag a scum especially when the vig has acted and the weak doctor knows its on evens
that flies out the window when all of a sudden you add the motion detector which is almost a cop with one scum alive, and in a setup where you're sort of expecting scum to either roflstomp town or for it to come down to one scum alive suddenly has all the roles that they already need to kill minus Psychologist plus weak doctor clears and all of a sudden they have a second way of getting clears or guilties in late game.
tl;dr I think Mastina was right in review when she said the game was better with all mafia goons2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.- profii
-
profii Jack of All Trades
- profii
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6791
- Joined: December 19, 2017
- skitter30
-
skitter30 she/herLast Laugh
- skitter30
she/her- Last Laugh
- Last Laugh
- Posts: 36612
- Joined: March 26, 2017
- Pronoun: she/her
- Location: Est
In post 2984, PenguinPower wrote:gdi Frank. Why won't you release the scum PT?ShowHiatus once more.
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx- skitter30
-
skitter30 she/herLast Laugh
- skitter30
she/her- Last Laugh
- Last Laugh
- Posts: 36612
- Joined: March 26, 2017
- Pronoun: she/her
- Location: Est
i don't think i played weak doc here as well as i could
i think i tend to play a little weird when i'm a pr knowing i'm a decent n1 a lot of the time
and the weak kinda messed with that dynamic even more than usual because i didn't want my death to be ambiguous because that just kinda leads to a mess that i was trying to divert
and i think in doing so i caused more of a mess idkShowHiatus once more.
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx- RadiantCowbells
-
RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth Criminal
- RadiantCowbells
He/him- Smooth Criminal
- Smooth Criminal
- Posts: 70855
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/him
- Contact:
- skitter30
-
skitter30 she/herLast Laugh
- skitter30
she/her- Last Laugh
- Last Laugh
- Posts: 36612
- Joined: March 26, 2017
- Pronoun: she/her
- Location: Est
i've kinda reached that point, and the weak just fucked with that even more, yeahShowHiatus once more.
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx- skitter30
-
skitter30 she/herLast Laugh
- skitter30
she/her- Last Laugh
- Last Laugh
- Posts: 36612
- Joined: March 26, 2017
- Pronoun: she/her
- Location: Est
i really need someone to talk me down when i overthink things too muchShowHiatus once more.
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx- skitter30
-
skitter30 she/herLast Laugh
- skitter30
she/her- Last Laugh
- Last Laugh
- Posts: 36612
- Joined: March 26, 2017
- Pronoun: she/her
- Location: Est
In post 2987, skitter30 wrote:In post 2984, PenguinPower wrote:gdi Frank. Why won't you release the scum PT?ShowHiatus once more.
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx- PenguinPower
-
PenguinPower He/Him.peng
- PenguinPower
He/Him- .peng
- .peng
- Posts: 24623
- Joined: June 15, 2016
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Frank
-
Frank Goon
- Frank
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 440
- Joined: December 6, 2019
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
- Menalque
-
Menalque he/himSurvivor
- Menalque
he/him- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 23727
- Joined: May 15, 2019
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Madrid, Spain
- Menalque
-
Menalque he/himSurvivor
- Menalque
- gobbledygook
-
gobbledygook Jack of All Trades
- gobbledygook
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7861
- Joined: July 24, 2019
- gobbledygook
-
gobbledygook Jack of All Trades
- gobbledygook
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7861
- Joined: July 24, 2019
Everything is a lie
- skitter30
-
skitter30 she/herLast Laugh
- skitter30
she/her- Last Laugh
- Last Laugh
- Posts: 36612
- Joined: March 26, 2017
- Pronoun: she/her
- Location: Est
'you are not authorized to read this topic'ShowHiatus once more.
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx - skitter30
Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.
- gobbledygook
- gobbledygook
- Menalque
- Frank
- PenguinPower
- skitter30
- skitter30
- skitter30
- RadiantCowbells
- skitter30
- skitter30
- profii
- RadiantCowbells
- PenguinPower
- mastina
- PenguinPower
- mastina
- rb
- PenguinPower
- popsofctown
- popsofctown