Mini Normal 2113 | Menalque & Co’s Favourite Places | OVER

[Frank]

What did I do? :O

[popsofctown]

You were the strongman Looker told me so

[popsofctown]

WHAT DO WE WANT!? THE SCUM PT
WHEN DO WE WANT IT!? NOW

[PenguinPower]

Apparently it's mine and Modque's secret hideout forever and ever.

[rb]

wow im gonna burn down this hideout imo..

[mastina]

Hi I reviewed this game.

[PenguinPower]

rb gonna burn your hideout down

[mastina]

Hey, here’s my proposed setup for the mini normal I’d like to run:

Town
- weak doctor
- 1 shot vig
- psychologist
- 7 VT

Scum
- 1 shot commuter
- 1 shot strongman
- goon

Do I need to send you opening post/rules or would that wait for when the review thread is up?

Cheers

Honestly, my first impression: if you had an all-goon scumteam, I'd probably pass the setup as is, with the thought of it being near the balanced mark (maybe slightly scumsided), albeit with the expectation that the game while theoretically balanced would probably be a scum stomp.

With a single scum power role, and/or to get a setup where I think that in practice in addition to theory the town can win, yeah, need an extra town PR.

To explain: against an all goon scumteam, the "probably theoretically balanced, with the expectation of a scum sweep", comes from the town roles having the ability to wreck scum, even introducing a potential "follow the cop" breaking strategy, in theory. They also synergize incredibly well.

The problem is, in practice, they probably don't. The setup against an all goon scumteam is swingy as fuck, where an early town PR death fucks the town over but a town PR using their action smartly so much as once fucks the scum over, with the theoretical equal chance of either albeit in reality probably leaning towards the town being fucked.

If you keep a scum PR to help mitigate the theoretical follow the cop, then the town needs something extra, a rather significant extra; if you want the town to have some built in backup in case of early town PR death, then the scum would indeed need a little bit of help to break the follow the cop.

So, yeah, basically I do agree: from the original setup, drop one of the scum PRS, and add a town one, and we're looking good.

^This was my original contribution to the game. Where the options were, either add a town PR and keep one scum PR but not the other, or don't add any PRs but have the scum be goons.

[Frank]

last

[PenguinPower]

gdi Frank. Why won't you release the scum PT?

[RadiantCowbells]

So something that occurred to me watching this playout
Psychologist is essentially the opposite power curve of a tracker, but weaker for ~most of the game~

When there's 3 scum alive there's (even if we are presuming same person kills which is fairly common) there are 2 potential guilties and no innos.
When there's 2 scum alive there's 1 potential guilty and no innos.
When there's 1 scum alive, the role is entirely useless.
Ignoring the possibility of different scum members submitting nightkill

Now there's something to be said for it having a powerful N1 and scaling down relative to tracker which scales up but it's... really not as strong a role as you guys are giving it credit for. The weak doctor is a way way stronger role. But either way the issue here came about when the motion detector was added because I think before then even with a strongman the setup was okay and it didn't necessarily need one either? follow the cop with the weak doc on the psychologist is like using 20$ bills as facial tissues and scum commuter has a bunch of toxic interactions in this setup and no real reason to exist so not happy about it, like with or without strongman it's a pretty fair game

in the original setup town was good at efficiently picking off the weaker scum players, could ~maybe~ deepwolf hunt with the weak doctor but generally this is the kind of setup where you expect to see scums weak performers get clusterfucked and the game really comes down to the strongest scum player making it through because there's a vig a 1-guilty weak doctor and the psychologist so in a best case scenario the weak doctor is piling up innos maybe but more likely it's being used for the weak role to bag a scum especially when the vig has acted and the weak doctor knows its on evens

that flies out the window when all of a sudden you add the motion detector which is almost a cop with one scum alive, and in a setup where you're sort of expecting scum to either roflstomp town or for it to come down to one scum alive suddenly has all the roles that they already need to kill minus Psychologist plus weak doctor clears and all of a sudden they have a second way of getting clears or guilties in late game.

tl;dr I think Mastina was right in review when she said the game was better with all mafia goons

[profii]

I think there is maybe a knee jerk reaction to the psychologist because
-vig was revealed day 1, so that helps
-we got an actual guilty day 2...

That is probably the best way for those roles to combine and I would imagine you would wait a long time before it happens again

[skitter30]

gdi Frank. Why won't you release the scum PT?

[skitter30]

i don't think i played weak doc here as well as i could

i think i tend to play a little weird when i'm a pr knowing i'm a decent n1 a lot of the time

and the weak kinda messed with that dynamic even more than usual because i didn't want my death to be ambiguous because that just kinda leads to a mess that i was trying to divert
and i think in doing so i caused more of a mess idk

[RadiantCowbells]

i feel like i see a town power role roll and die a little inside because I'm automatically going to die and I don't even get the benefit of keeping the PRs alive in the process

[skitter30]

i've kinda reached that point, and the weak just fucked with that even more, yeah

[skitter30]

i really need someone to talk me down when i overthink things too much

[skitter30]

gdi Frank. Why won't you release the scum PT?

[PenguinPower]

I just read through it again...it's such a fantastical read through that just makes my day. I wish you could join in on the joyousness.

gdi Frank.

[Frank]

I'm releasing the scum PT, it's just taking me awhile to redact all the horrible things I said about you guys in there

[Menalque]

See, you guys will all enjoy reading the scum PT so much more this way

[Menalque]

scum PT

[gobbledygook]

YES!!! The fortress of saltitude

[gobbledygook]

scum PT

Everything is a lie

[skitter30]

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