Open 82: Texas Justice Mafia (Game Over!) before 626

PokerFace · Post Post #125 (ISO) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:35 am

<<Has recently started watching this game. I have a high love for viging and I wish I had known about it needing a replacement sooner. Setup is cool for all the vigging, but I never realized how broken it be.

I'd say Prof is better for Fonz so that it will more so encompass his accomplishments to mafia theories since he does post good in mafia discussion while his contributions here are largly do to how well he was able to break one particular setup. I think someone getting best town performance should be finding the scum easily and leading lynches on them as aposed to outwitting them on mechanics. Either way Fonz's idea and play worked well in this game.

Sun Tzu · Post Post #126 (ISO) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:44 am

farside22 wrote:
The Fonz wrote:I was V/LA- put the kill in with some haste when i got back, and saw the deadline.

Was kinda hoping that the mob would give themselves away by bitching about the unfairness of the setup and save us actually having to use the multikill procedure...

still, I'm sure this game will make Pie very happy.
Sun Tzu complained about it. So I knew he was scum. Other then that SSF and Tom was a no clue for me.

I was ready to confess. That was why I didn't the silly seer claim but no one jumped on it. The game was already over.

ISO · Post Post #127 (ISO) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:45 am

Well, to be fair, you had about a 27% chance of winning, whereas you had like 11% if you died day 1.

Crazy · Post Post #128 (ISO) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:13 pm

Well, Sun Tzu would have already seen the pairings and known he'd lost.

Iron Man · Post Post #129 (ISO) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:29 pm

Good Game!

Yeah, this setup is definitly broken.

Thanks a lot Fonz. You just had to ruin a perfectly good setup, lol.

Mirth · Post Post #130 (ISO) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:24 pm

Thestatusquo wrote:This is crazy. I've been watching this game, and I nominated Fonz for a scummy based off of it.

The only argument seems to be whether he should be nommed for best performance, town, or for prof. mafia.

Still:

O.O

I agree that he deserves a scummy, but neither of those categories seem to fit (though Prof. Mafia fits better than Best Perfomance Town). Maybe make some kind of custom one just for him?

Pokerface, you just missed replacing in by literally half an hour. Kinda wishing you PMed me first right now, so I wouldnt have felt compelled to cross-replace. (Sorry, Starkmoon). Not you would have really been able to play.

To fix this set uo: maybe one less vig and a mafia roleblocker?

PokerFace · Post Post #131 (ISO) » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:27 am

Mirth wrote:
Thestatusquo wrote:This is crazy. I've been watching this game, and I nominated Fonz for a scummy based off of it.

The only argument seems to be whether he should be nommed for best performance, town, or for prof. mafia.

Still:

O.O
I agree that he deserves a scummy, but neither of those categories seem to fit (though Prof. Mafia fits better than Best Perfomance Town). Maybe make some kind of custom one just for him?

Pokerface, you just missed replacing in by literally half an hour. Kinda wishing you PMed me first right now, so I wouldnt have felt compelled to cross-replace. (Sorry, Starkmoon). Not you would have really been able to play.

To fix this set uo: maybe one less vig and a mafia roleblocker?

I wouldn't of cared about getting such little play time. I mainly wanted to join because of the viging. I've been having a serious dry spell as of late to vig roles. I haven't been a vig in awhile in real time IRC play. Also I joined "really bad idea mafia" recently solely becuase I wanted to shoot scum and I got killed before I was able to. I have a rooted need to vig someone in mafia and I need to do it soon. Ain't you ever had a built up blood lust? I so need to be hooked up with a vigging role.

PokerFace · Post Post #132 (ISO) » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:49 am

Also what I think this setup would need to not be broken would be for the the mafia 'as a group' to have 2 actions: Block and kill. Each night the entire remaining scum group, would decide together on one player to block and on one to kill. The group can perform both actions even if there is only one member left.

If there was only one mafia role blocker and they were fairly early, the town could later on in the game setup the pairing system as apposed to using it day 1. My idea would prevent that, and also if the pairing system did go down on day 1 against a mafia group that could kill & block then these would be to 2 possible results

Result A (2 scum were paired together):
Those 2 scum live and the block is used to keep the third one alive. The mafia kill will then be used on the townie that mafiso was paired with. All other townies paired with townies die. Scum win with all its members alive!

Result B (2 scum were not paired together):
All townies paired with townies Die. (6 Total people dead)
2 mafiso's paired with townies die. (8 Total people dead)
1 townie paired with one of those scum dies (9 Total people dead)
This leaves 2 townies and 1 mafioso. One of those townies is confirmed because he killed scum. That townie will have to decide who is scum of those left since it is now end game. The mafia can effectivly use there kill and roleblock to decide which townie (among those paired with them) will end up being the confirmed one and also which townie will be blocked and left to fight off the lynch in end game.

I admit the 2 probably results are not perfectly balanced in B's case but it is an option. I've seen endgames that contain 1 confirmed player still get won by the Scum and in thise situation the scum would be able to guide who gets confirmed and who has to fight it out with them. Scum have 1/5 change of winning straight up with day 1 pairings and 1/2 chance of winning during endgame. So "Practically" a 3/5 chance give or take based on which scums get paired with which townies. Their choices of who is confirmed, who gets nked, and who fights it out will be limited to the 3 who are randomly paired with them.

PokerFace · Post Post #133 (ISO) » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:56 am

Scum also get to pick which member stays alive based on which one is paired with the "fighting" townie. By fighting townie I mean the one the mafia feels thay can get easily lynched during the end game.

The idea may or may not be the best solution by balance
(I am no balance expert so someone should do a math check on me)
But I think it is a viable option to have a scum group with group block and kill options.

Erg0 · Post Post #134 (ISO) » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:25 pm

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but this idea has been seen before. We (the scum) managed to wriggle out of it in that game, though we lost in the end. I suppose it was only a matter of time before a town actually followed through on the plan.

Erg0 · Post Post #135 (ISO) » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:28 pm

Also, I should note that it would have been funny if a scum had thought of this plan first and given a "random" list that paired him with his buddy. That was one of the reasons that the town didn't go for the plan last time.

PokerFace · Post Post #136 (ISO) » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:46 pm

Well then that has been noted by a couple of ocasions then, I guess
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 62#1159662
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 67#1156267

Also discussions on ways to fix it have been mentioned so perhaps the setup can still be run again sometime soon in a manor that is not so breakable.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 71#1158671
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 81#1158681

MeMe · Post Post #137 (ISO) » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:49 pm

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