Open 88 - Polygamist Mafia (Game Over) before 650

[farside22]

crap I was not expecting that.

I'm actually not surprised.

That's because Armlx knows how to push my buttons and seeing someone I believe town being stubborn about an unvote for time makes it useless for me to do any analysis. I would rather not waste my time while the scum come in and quick hammer.

[Jahudo]

So, um, did we win? Did we lose?

I think you would know that.

I was town, hoping to catch Goat not-hammer and realize that no scenarios could allow farside to be town. So it's emp/goat and armix/kloud. Dang.

[farside22]

So, um, did we win? Did we lose?

By the way in the future when your town if someone ask for time whether the person is scum or town you should give them time. You might actually gain useful information.

[farside22]

So, um, did we win? Did we lose?

I think you would know that.

I was town, hoping to catch Goat not-hammer and realize that no scenarios could allow farside to be town. So it's emp/goat and armix/kloud. Dang.

DAMN you mean I was right the whole time about my weird vibe on Llama!!! GOD (BLANK!!!!)

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Dang. Sorry, farside. I didn't unvote because at that point, either a. scum would quickhammer, or b. they wouldn't, and I would still want you dead.

[armlx]

Yeah, scum win.

We were pretty screwed once farside asked what game it was, so I figured we had to just end it ASAP. Glad kloud saw the same thing.

That's because Armlx knows how to push my buttons and seeing someone I believe town being stubborn about an unvote for time makes it useless for me to do any analysis. I would rather not waste my time while the scum come in and quick hammer.

This is very true. I apologize if I was a dick about it.

[farside22]

Yeah, scum win.

We were pretty screwed once farside asked what game it was, so I figured we had to just end it ASAP. Glad kloud saw the same thing.

That's because Armlx knows how to push my buttons and seeing someone I believe town being stubborn about an unvote for time makes it useless for me to do any analysis. I would rather not waste my time while the scum come in and quick hammer.

This is very true. I apologize if I was a dick about it.

I dont' blame you. I played terrible. I just could not get into this game and I couldn't get over that naging feeling I had on Llama. Well next time I won't be so single minded even if I was right.

[armlx]

farside, you actually had a really good out in that scenario that gave away the truth. Goat also wasn't voting you, so you couldn't be sure whether Goat or Jen was the lurker scum, but as both Kloud and I were voting you we had to be scum with them unless both were.

[farside22]

farside, you actually had a really good out in that scenario that gave away the truth. Goat also wasn't voting you, so you couldn't be sure whether Goat or Jen was the lurker scum, but as both Kloud and I were voting you we had to be scum with them unless both were.

I saw Goat pop in a bit more then Jen so I thought Goat was in the clear at that point.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

See, I thought the that she wasn't calling out goat as the potential lurker as well was an indication that farside/goat were the two pairs.

[Xtoxm]

Final Vote Count

Farside22 (6) SweatPants, Empking, Jahudo, armlx, Kloud, Farside
Empking (1) Mana_Ku
Goatrevolt (0)
Jahudo (0)
Jenethron (0)
armlx (1) Goat
Caboose (0)
Mana_Ku (0)
kloud1516 (0)
TheSweatPantsNinja (1) Caboose

Not Voting (1) Jenethron

With 10 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.

Farside has been lynched!

Farside -

Townie

- Lynched Day Two
Caboose -

Townie

- Committed Suicide Day Two

The Polygamists have taken over the town! They force the remaining townies to leave so they can live happily together!

Kloud -

Polgyamist

- Wins
armlx -

Polgyamist

- Wins
Goatrevolt -

Polgyamist

- Wins
Empking -

Polgyamist

- Wins

Jahudo -

Townie

- Endgamed
Jenethron -

Townie

- Endgamed
Mana_Ku -

Townie

- Endgamed
TheSweatpantsNinja -

Townie

- Endgamed

My thoughts on the game:

I thought you guys had it Day One. Armlx was the deadline lynch without about 24 hours left, and I was completely surprised to see CK speed wagonned like that. Although his play was a bit tunneled, I was very impressed with SC, and I didn't think anyone would see him as scum.

Jahudo also impressed me a lot Day One.

Shortly after Day Two started, I started thinking Farside would be lynched for scum victory. I'd have found her scummy if I was town here, I think.

Anyway congratz scum first time scum win this setup.

Oh, Quicktopics, yeh...I loved Zoo and TPT's. Shame they flaked.

Far+Cab
Jah+OF
Zoo+TPT
Jeb+3fj
Scum

Also, I didn't like the paraphrasing of QT's at all. I feel it's unfair on scum to force them to try and make that up. You can't put an example chat in the first post liek you can win PM's. Although I can't really think of a good rule against it, I think there should be something.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Shortly after Day Two started, I started thinking Farside would be lynched for scum victory. I'd have found her scummy if I was town here, I think.

Thank you for making me feel better about being completely, horribly, wrong.

[farside22]

Shortly after Day Two started, I started thinking Farside would be lynched for scum victory. I'd have found her scummy if I was town here, I think.

Thank you for making me feel better about being completely, horribly, wrong.

Gee thanks I think. Not everyone can be spectaular in every game as town.

[StrangerCoug]

Damn it. Good game, scum.

[Jahudo]

Aw, now I wish Coug/Karne made it to day two so they would've had to explain that pre-game

[Mana_Ku]

Only things I have to say:
-I was right! . Too bad, nobody of the good guys believed me.
-Our quick topic chat was as Adel described.
-But most importantly, I liked my previous lover much more. Adel, why did you leave me alone .

[Empking]

Yay, we won.

[Citizen Karne]

Ah my early feelings about armlx were right, though for the wrong reasons.

I am also surprised I was speed wagoned. Losing internet access sucks. :/

Ah well, good game scum!

[Adel]

Well, the game's over. Set up discussion time.

This set up is fundamentally flawed in that it starts off favoring the town (see the whole random lynch thing), while at the same time it maximizes the effects and ease of scum hunting. I expect town win percentage in this set up given even play skills on both sides is at least 70%.

I expect you didn't accurately account for the fact that all of the town -1 have to vote a scum player on day 1, and they all have to vote the same scum player on day 2. There is nothing random about either day's lynch beyond which townie gets lynched.

Sorry I replaced out, but I just got really sick of playing mafia. I hadn't taken a break since I started playing in May of last year.

[Goatrevolt]

There was no way in hell I was going to vote farside unless I was the one hammering her, because I wanted to play up the idea that me/emp and farside/caboose were the scum team, and for me to do so would have probably made it obvious that the scum team was me/emp armlx/kloud.

Sorry for going absent there those last two days. I was waiting for kloud to vote so I could hammer, but I was really busy and not able to access the game. I really was hoping that wouldn't cost us the win.

At any rate, I wish I could have had a more controlling role in this game, but being absent almost all of day 1 hurts a lot. I'm a bit surprised we won, to be honest. Our only real hope was to get a lynch on farside/caboose team, but I didn't think it would happen. Armlx, nice job with the distancing, and your swap to voting farside instead of me was really smooth. /applaud.

----

Set up discussion. I legitimately think this setup is skewed in favor of the town. Truly randomized lynching gives the town a 60% chance of winning, and any kind of good logical scum hunting and player relationship analysis should up that figure. I think armlx's 70% is a fairly accurate figure.

[Goatrevolt]

See, I thought the that she wasn't calling out goat as the potential lurker as well was an indication that farside/goat were the two pairs.

Honestly, from an objective standpoint, this pairing makes a lot of sense for townies to think is correct. Starting from the end of day 1, I made sure to try to hold back from throwing suspicion on farside to keep this option on the table. Farside flip-flopping from thinking me scum to thinking me town midway through day 2 really helped the impression.

I thought you guys had it Day One. Armlx was the deadline lynch without about 24 hours left, and I was completely surprised to see CK speed wagonned like that. Although his play was a bit tunneled, I was very impressed with SC, and I didn't think anyone would see him as scum.

Same. I didn't think it would happen. I would have had to vote Adel at deadline to keep from losing, which would have meant an auto loss the next day, because it would have obviously revealed armlx/kloud and me/emp as the scum pair.

Also, I didn't like the paraphrasing of QT's at all. I feel it's unfair on scum to force them to try and make that up. You can't put an example chat in the first post liek you can win PM's. Although I can't really think of a good rule against it, I think there should be something.

Agreed wholeheartedly. We almost lost because my story didn't quite match with Empking's. I completely missed the football comment when I was scouring the thread for what not to say while faking that. I'm glad it kind of fell through the cracks. I thought that was a game loss right there.

Also, for the record, I've played 4 games with LlamaFluff on various sites (2 on this site), so the "which game where they talking about" thing wasn't exactly fair. .

I dont' blame you. I played terrible. I just could not get into this game and I couldn't get over that naging feeling I had on Llama. Well next time I won't be so single minded even if I was right.

I disagree. I don't think you played a poor game at all. Your questioning early on day 1 was really pro-town, but got overlooked, and you were completely accurate in who you thought was scum for almost the entirety of the game. I wouldn't be hard on yourself for the loss at all.

[Goatrevolt]

I think mass claiming early is a bad idea for town in this setup and here's why. If you mass claim early, the scum immediately split into groups of two, and consciously begin to act as a group of two, rather than a group of 4. That can only serve to make it more difficult for town to determine who is scum, if the scum are already in the mindset of acting like town lovers.

On the other hand, say you wait to mass claim until day 2. Then you can look back through the thread, and see if things don't quite make sense based on the claim. Perhaps scum will vote or toss suspicion on their partner accidentally in an attempt to distance. Perhaps 2 members of opposing claimed lovers will tie themselves together in such a way that would only make sense if they were town lovers, etc. I think a later mass claim results in a lot more information and benefit for the town and will make scum finding a lot easier.

Main point: Town lovers are legitimately town lovers, and thus their actions towards each other will make complete sense when looking back through the thread. Town lovers aren't going to vote for or push for their own lover. Scum lovers are not legitimately 2 man groups, and thus may have actions that do not make sense from that perspective. Claiming later on allows you to catch this. Claiming early gives the scum the advantage in having to play like this openly from the beginning. An early mass claim coaches the scum to play correctly.

[Adel]

Goatrevolt is absolutely correct about waiting until early day 2 (or very late day 1) to make a mass lover claim.

The hypothetical "random lynch" will never happen in this set-up. Scum do not have to lynch each each other, and will not lynch each other. The random result is not a valid starting point for set-up analysis. A scum team that establishes a plan to vote each other to lynch -1 will consistently win in games where the town attempts to use voting analysis to find scum.

[MeMe]

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