Open 103 (Even/Odd C9): Schoolyard Vengence! Over before 712

[zachattack]

I would have unvoted at this point anyways if Stef was at L-1, I don't think HE (sorry about that) had anything to worry about. As it stands I like fhqagjkauayonhldk's vote to start a bandwagon and see what discussion we can get out of it, but I think tinvision would be a better target since he's posted nothing but a vote so...

unvote
Vote: -Tinvision-

[farside22]

I unvoted. I'm at L-2. 3 people weren't going to jump in and hammer me before i could unvote. Be serious.

LOL I missed the unvote and vote to tiny.
So why did you self vote?

[Battousai]

Vote Count

-TinVision--2 (Stef, zachattack)
Farside22- 1 (ZazieR)
ZazieR- 1 (Farside22)
Stef-1 (fhqwhgads)
Zachattack-1 (Atlas)
fhqwhgads-1 (-TinVision-)

It takes 4 to lynch

[Stef]

I self-voted bcoz "Raundome Staige" basically.

[fhqwhgads]

Wow, Tinvision really just voted and disappeared.

unvote

,

FOS: Tinvision

More talk. Less lurking.

[ZazieR]

Unvote Vote Stef

Don't trust it.

[Stef]

Unvote, Vote Atlas

for not being voted.

[ZazieR]

What's the meaning of this Stef?

[Stef]

What what?

[ZazieR]

You're third random vote. Including a self-vote.
I have never seen you do this before. So why?

[-TinVision-]

@fhqwhgads: It's the day after the Thanksgiving weekend. Let's not be unreasonable.

Anyway, I'll give the (obviously omgusy)

FOS Stef

for bouncing his vote around so much. It's still early yet, so it's not worth a vote.

[Stef]

I never self-voted before. That's why i've done it. As far as my third random vote.. ehm.. what exactly is it about them that bothers you?

[ZazieR]

That's why I'm suspicious of it. Perhaps if you have the quicktopic chat of mini 672, you can see why. *hint * And I'm suspicious of selfvotes after Korts's action.

What's the reason for changing your vote three times? Give me one good reason.

Zach, I just saw that you unvoted and voted TV to start a bandwagon. Why would you do that, when you're vote was already on a bandwagon?

[Stef]

unvote, Vote: ZazieR

Serious vote and end of random for me.

You raise red flags that have no rational reason whatsoever and put a lot of meaning in random stage events.

You ask for reasoning in random stage when such a reasoning is not required ( thus the "random" word in "random stage" ) nor necessarily present.

There's one thing to try to end the random stage but it's a whole other ball game to do it like you did. I don't like it.

[ZazieR]

Start by explaining what I did refering to this:

There's one thing to try to end the random stage but it's a whole other ball game to do it like you did. I don't like it.

Tell me how keep on random voting will bring us out the random voting stage.

I would love to point something out, but that game's still ongoing.

And you may try to explain how changing your vote three times is helpful. You may even point out why you did this.

[Stef]

You rush to make accusations based on randomness.

I've learned that the random stage has it's purpose and cutting it short only gives off less vibes and isn't that particularly helpful for the town.

You rely way too much on meta. Especially because most players who have less then a year under their belt keep changing their style, thoughts, beliefs, etc.

Did i say it's helpful to vote 3 times in the random stage? No. You seemed to think it was odd/suspicious for some reason. Why? Why would 1 one random vote be better than 10 random votes? How is it relevant if a player self-votes in the random stage? I want to see your reasoning before answering anymore of your questions.

[ZazieR]

Tell me who else is suspicious at this moment. The only one I can call right now is Zach from changing from one bandwagon to the next. You voted yourself, and you random voted three times in total. That draws attention to you. And now you got it.
If I hadn't made this comment about your selfvote and the other random votes, what would you have done in your next post?

Explain where I relied on meta.

No, you didn't say that it was helpful. But if you're a townie, you want the best for town. So your action of 3 random votes should have been helpful. Besides, why do it if it's not helpful?
Random votes should help us out of the RVS to get discussion started. In one of my games, this was achieved as someone put a player at L-2 with only random votes. But changing every time to someone with no votes doesn't seem helpful to me. Take your last vote. Due to your unvote, you went from someone with two votes, to two players with each one vote. To me, two votes on one player is better than two players with each one vote.
And your selfvote. Give me one reason why a selfvote is good. Town doesn't gain anything from it. And I've seen scum use it as a pro-town gambit. So I'm extra weary due to that. But if you had a good reason for your selfvote, then tell and I won't bring it up in an attack.

And once again. How would your vote hopping have lead us out the RVS if nobody attacked you for it?
Besides, why vote me for attacking you, while TV also made a comment about it?

[zachattack]

I changed my vote because Stef was talking in the thread anyways so I figured a bandwagon on him served no purpose. Tin had only posted two words so I moved my vote to him. I think early bandwagon's are best used to get people talking, so I went from a player who was involved in the thread to a player that wasn't.

[fhqwhgads]

Unvote, Vote Atlas for not being voted.

This, in my opinion, happened after random voting was over. Cease and desist!

@tinvision: fair enough. Also, that was why I FOS'ed and not voted.

I accept Stef's self vote as just a joke, but his jumpyness (trying to start a bandwagon under the radar?) between votes has me uneasy. Random voting is there to start discussion. True, this game has been having a slow start, but the third random vote was a bit pushing it.

And man, his almost OMGUS vote against Zazier. Calling her out on raising irrational red flags and then does the same with his 'too-much-meta' argument?

[-TinVision-]

Not entirely at ease with Stef's jumping around but in this case he's pointed a finger where it ought to go.

FOS Atlas

. Post moar.

[Stef]

Explain where I relied on meta.

I would love to point something out, but that game's still ongoing.

That draws attention to you. And now you got it.

Ok, i got your attention. So? How is that a tell for anything?

If I hadn't made this comment about your selfvote and the other random votes, what would you have done in your next post?

Probably i would have tried to get the users who haven't posted to post and watch for reactions from the other players. When all the players are active there is more to go on.

But if you're a townie, you want the best for town. So your action of 3 random votes should have been helpful. Besides, why do it if it's not helpful?

No they shouldn't have been helpful. It was the RVS. In the RVS the actions of players don't need to be helpful for the town even if the player is town. It shouldn't be anti-town, i agree, but you aren't accusing me of being anti-town. You are accusing me of not being helpful in the RVS which is bull. How can a town player help the town in RVS? Enlighten us please.

Take your last vote. Due to your unvote, you went from someone with two votes, to two players with each one vote. To me, two votes on one player is better than two players with each one vote.

Usually it would be but not if the player who has the two votes is in the game and posting and not doing anything suspicious yet while other players haven't posted in the thread and should do so. Not to mention that i do not see how it's better for a player on whom we have no tells either way to be at L-2 so early. Pressure is one thing but it doesn't work the same in a 7 player game.

And your selfvote. Give me one reason why a selfvote is good. Town doesn't gain anything from it. And I've seen scum use it as a pro-town gambit. So I'm extra weary due to that. But if you had a good reason for your selfvote, then tell and I won't bring it up in an attack.

It was the RVS. I don't need a reason since i didn't need to do anything good or bad for me or the town. Just having fun. As for you not bringing it up in an attack if i explain it.. why should i care about your attack as long as it has BS reasons?

And once again. How would your vote hopping have lead us out the RVS if nobody attacked you for it?

Where did i say that i wanted my vote hopping to lead us out of the RVS? Tisk tisk.

Besides, why vote me for attacking you, while TV also made a comment about it?

because he made a comment. He didn't make a case out of nothing and he didn't vote based on it since, as he stated, it's no reason for a vote. You, on the other hand, seem to think it is when it's clearly not.

This, in my opinion, happened after random voting was over. Cease and desist!

Why was the random stage over?

And man, his almost OMGUS vote against Zazier. Calling her out on raising irrational red flags and then does the same with his 'too-much-meta' argument?

How was my vote OMGUS? How did i do the same with that argument? You seem eager to jump on with ZazieR on very weak basis.
___________________

@ZazieR: I am not really defending myself because the case you made is too weak and that's also why i've voted you. Posting just to point the holes in your case since scum sometimes makes crappy cases against players if they can find anything out of the ordinary about them and try to push them towards a lynch and usually those cases have holes in them as does yours.


I'd also like everyone to post more and give their thoughts on the matter.

[ZazieR]

First one is wrong. I wanted to point something out, because it's actually funny. It has nothing to do with your reasons or with your allignment as far as I know.

Only my attention? Two others gave comments about your vote hopping. One hasn't been online for a long time. And Farside hasn't been online since this discussion has started. Only Zach hasn't made any notice yet. Which is the reason why he is number two for me.
How is it a tell? Why do it? That's my point. I don't trust it as it had no use at all.

What would you have done to let the non-active players post? Why aren't you trying right now?
You got reactions. You addressed mine and Fhq. Why not -TV-? He attacked you as well. He gave you a FoS. So how come Fhq is jumping with me, but not -TV-?

Perhaps I'm not calling you anti-town, but doesn't suspicious apply for this as well ?
Uhm, no townie can help the town in the RVS, but they can help the town to get out of the RVS. And I don't think random voting the whole time will achieve this. And that's my point of you not being helpful.

In the RVS the actions of players don't need to be helpful for the town even if the player is town.

Oh really ?

I unvoted. I'm at L-2. 3 people weren't going to jump in and hammer me before i could unvote. Be serious.

Not to mention that i do not see how it's better for a player on whom we have no tells either way to be at L-2 so early.

So how is this different from the time you were at L-2?
And how is a random vote useful on a player who is probably not even checking this game?

I don't need a reason since i didn't need to do anything good or bad for me or the town.

I think you are able to find out what I mean. Otherwise, I'll bold it the next time.

Where did i say that i wanted my vote hopping to lead us out of the RVS? Tisk tisk.

You didn't. I assumed it as I thought this was your way to get out of the RVS. Then what was your reason for changing your vote the whole time?

because he made a comment. He didn't make a case out of nothing and he didn't vote based on it since, as he stated, it's no reason for a vote. You, on the other hand, seem to think it is when it's clearly not.

FOS Stef for bouncing his vote around so much. It's still early yet, so it's not worth a vote.

You sure about that quote Stef?

@ZazieR: I am not really defending myself because the case you made is too weak and that's also why i've voted you. Posting just to point the holes in your case since scum sometimes makes crappy cases against players if they can find anything out of the ordinary about them and try to push them towards a lynch and usually those cases have holes in them as does yours.

And your case against me is that I'm having a weak case against you. Now that's a strong case

[ZazieR]

EBWOP What do you think of Fhq right now?

[Stef]

Only my attention?

you seem awfully picky on semantics. I know you to be able to understand what i meant.

Which is the reason why he is number two for me.

[irony]Great logic![/irony] So you think that people who don't share your line of thought are scummy?

How is it a tell? Why do it? That's my point. I don't trust it as it had no use at all.

O_o Your logic fails. It was the RVS. In that stage things don't have serious or individual use for that matter. If you don't trust that then it means you are paranoid and you should also suspect all the people for their votes in the RVS and ask for reasons for all of them

What would you have done to let the non-active players post?

What would i have done to let the non-active players post? O_o What the hell? How can i let or not let them post? That question fails on so many levels.

Why aren't you trying right now?

i voted for atlas because she hadn't posted. That's all i can do really besides asking her to give her thoughts on what's happening which i did. This question fails as well.

You got reactions. You addressed mine and Fhq. Why not -TV-? He attacked you as well. He gave you a FoS. So how come Fhq is jumping with me, but not -TV-?

I can't and won't build on 3 people at once. All in due time. I noted his reaction, don't worry.

Perhaps I'm not calling you anti-town, but doesn't suspicious apply for this as well ?

huh? Make an effort to write more understandable questions please. What "this"?

Uhm, no townie can help the town in the RVS, but they can help the town to get out of the RVS. And I don't think random voting the whole time will achieve this. And that's my point of you not being helpful.

Well.. as i stated earlier i don't think it's good for the RVS being cut short so that was not my intention. Random voting the whole time won't achieve this because i wasn't trying to end it. So your point of me not being helpful, as i said earlier, is crap and a logical fallacy if not also a misrep

In the RVS the actions of players don't need to be helpful for the town even if the player is town.

Oh really ?

Yeah, really. Can you comment something more articulated or is this how you react when you see your arguments are being dismantled?

I unvoted. I'm at L-2. 3 people weren't going to jump in and hammer me before i could unvote. Be serious.

Not to mention that i do not see how it's better for a player on whom we have no tells either way to be at L-2 so early.

So how is this different from the time you were at L-2?
And how is a random vote useful on a player who is probably not even checking this game?

What is the connection between the two situations? Yet again you make no sense. And about the vote against atlas, it is a common practice to vote for people who haven't posted. How would any other random vote be more helpful than that? O_o

I don't need a reason since i didn't need to do anything good or bad for me or the town.

I think you are able to find out what I mean. Otherwise, I'll bold it the next time.

Please bold it next time and be more explicit since some of the things you have said so far make no sense whatsoever

Where did i say that i wanted my vote hopping to lead us out of the RVS? Tisk tisk.

You didn't. I assumed it as I thought this was your way to get out of the RVS. Then what was your reason for changing your vote the whole time?

So you assume my intentions and make an argument based on your assumption of my intention behind my RVS actions? I already said that i didn't think it was time to end the RVS so it wasn't that and yet again you ask me for a reason concerning RVS voting. Logical fallacies all over the place

because he made a comment. He didn't make a case out of nothing and he didn't vote based on it since, as he stated, it's no reason for a vote. You, on the other hand, seem to think it is when it's clearly not.

FOS Stef for bouncing his vote around so much. It's still early yet, so it's not worth a vote.

You sure about that quote Stef?

What's there not to be sure about? I said he didn't make a case out of that which is true. I said he didn't vote based on it which is true. He stated it isn't reason enough for a vote which is true. What am i to be unsure about?

@ZazieR: I am not really defending myself because the case you made is too weak and that's also why i've voted you. Posting just to point the holes in your case since scum sometimes makes crappy cases against players if they can find anything out of the ordinary about them and try to push them towards a lynch and usually those cases have holes in them as does yours.

And your case against me is that I'm having a weak case against you. Now that's a strong case

No. My case against you is based on the fact that you use a lot of weak arguments and logical fallacies together with exaggerations and misreps to throw suspicion onto a player based on mostly nothing. That is something the town wouldn't do. That's something the scum would do to try and start a bandwagon. That's why i'm voting for you.

[Stef]

EBWOP What do you think of Fhq right now?

Waiting for him to answer.