Mini 1997: The Clownspiracy (Game Over!)

[Archwing]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
VOTE: wh4t
Hi! Remember me?

[Archwing]

Also hi stef! I'll try not to death tunnel a townie this game.

[Archwing]

Hi Archwing, good to see you again. Do you have any initial impressions from the other players?

negative, commander.

even if I did, I don't really trust my day 1 reads, let alone from RVS. I'm more of a late-game player tbh.

all I know is that brassherald might be a PL, apparently he can be awkward af, so be wary i suppose?

probably gonna lay low and try to sort some things from the sidelines rn

[Archwing]

maki how do you feel about rolling miller this game? have you ever played as miller before?

last game i was in with a miller, it was a shitshow cause some asshat pushed "always lynch claimed millers d1"

[Archwing]

wait a second, why is no one weighing in on beefster

Haven’t seen anything worth weighing in on yet.

wait a second, why is no one weighing in on beefster

Haven’t seen anything worth weighing in on yet.

Hard agree.

This is bad.

Literally in this thread someone referenced optimal Miller play via wiki is to claim post one.

[Archwing]

wh4t and arch are doing gods work btw but I'm not sure on gamma yet (and pressure doesnt necessarily help me sort him any faster either but I'm also hoping to do it via meta if I can get back up to speed there)

Don't pocket me

Why would I be a policy lynch? I've never been policy lynched.

Granted, I am selective with my words and free with my votes which has drawn suspicion, but I have gotten better.

Also, have we ever even played together, Archwing?

I've seen you in a few games that I've creeped on, most recently was the large normal that imploded from dunker

[Archwing]

Chronological progression:

Someone claims Miller
People talk about it
Someone refs wiki which states optimal play
Beefster says claiming Miller was bad

And now there is nothing worth weighing in on?

I said I was gonna lie low but fuck sakes.

[Archwing]

So either

A. You're lazy town
B. You're obvious scum

This is the shit I was talking about wrt your meta. Goddamnit.

[Archwing]

probably gonna lay low and try to sort some things from the sidelines rn

Chronological progression:

Someone claims Miller
People talk about it
Someone refs wiki which states optimal play
Beefster says claiming Miller was bad

And now there is nothing worth weighing in on?

I said I was gonna lie low but fuck sakes.

What do you call a woman falling in love with a carnie? Juggle Fever

Not that it matters, I don’t recal anyone saying it’s optimal play to do that.

What’s wrong with two people having a different opinion? Beefster not sharing somebody else’s opinion doesn’t mean they are scummy for it.

I’m more interested in you saying you were going to intentionally lay low. My opinion of you of a player has dropped because it’s never acceptable to lay low. It’s actually pretty scummy.

VOTE: arch

If that's the case why did you wait until now to vote?
I think that completely disregarding Beef's opinion and saying there is not any discussion to be had from that, which is somewhat of a stark contrast to the wiki recommended play, is asinine.

Interesting that no one else really reacted to it. But one was interesting:

Did you hear about the human cannonball? He got fired!


Most people don't really react to miller claims anymore. Most people believe proper play is to claim it in your opening post and it's mentioned on the wiki. The best thing to do is just ignore it and treat him like any other player since the miller claim is not verifiable (at least not by a cop)

btw... you were the one who referenced the wiki. lmao.

[Archwing]

i'm glad you see it too

i actually thought maybe i was going insane for a sec

[Archwing]

please reread my 98 and tell me which part of that makes it seem like i'm not being serious.

[Archwing]

you said it was proper, and you said it was referenced on the wiki. seems pretty fuckin legit to me dude

[Archwing]

hey koki. you claimed not town? wanna talk about it?

[Archwing]

yeah, fine, you didn't use the word optimal. but what i said in 112, which LITERALLY USES THE WORDS YOU SAID, "proper" and referencing wiki, one could easily read that as optimal, or something of that nature.

[Archwing]

What would you guys say if I said I wasn't town?

hey koki. you claimed not town? wanna talk about it?

Don't put words in my mouth.

VOTE: Arch

[Archwing]

like i get this is a standard opening of yours, and is NAI. lets just talk about it

[Archwing]

nah im fully capable of talking to both you and cedrick. I just didn't want our little chat to drown out what you said!

alright lemme clear something up:
KOKI DID NOT CLAIM ANTI-TOWN
CEDRICK DID NOT STATE MILLER-CLAIM POST #1 IS OPTIMAL PLAY

[Archwing]

okay lets start with
VOTE: BuJaber
wagon this plz

[Archwing]

What would we do without you Arch.......

talk less probably.

how boring.

vote bujaber with me please. it will be fun

[Archwing]

i got a n0 flavor cop on him. he's pennywise.

[Archwing]

Nope! He put words in my mouth. I asked a question, never claimed it. If he really thought I claimed it he would have voted me.

yeah pretty much all of this is true, tbh

[Archwing]

wagons provide good information to look back on. bu had a semi-started wagon.

yeah i probably do seem scattered. i was honestly rattled by cedrick at the start there, but i'm over it now. i admit looking back it's not exactly what he said, although i do think it could be left to interpretation.

[Archwing]

cedrick is your joking bit a posting restriction or just shits and giggles?

[Archwing]

brass... dude i'm not trying to push you as a PL. I'm merely stating that you can be considered as one. just like how i would assume everyone here knows that UCV is lynchbait, and as such should not be d1 lynched, typically.

[Archwing]

also
UNVOTE: bujaber
good intro.
don't really like kiana's intro, but probtown.

[Archwing]

??

it was an analogy. 206 had no implication of UCV being in this game.

[Archwing]

[Archwing]

VOTE: Rask

don't let me down beef

[Archwing]

Koki does this every game. I was reaction testing other people to see who would jump on it with me. No one did.

[Archwing]

On phone atm, but I will respond to the both of you when I get to my computer.

[Archwing]

Actually gamma I'll answer you right now.

I don't really see what I'm stretching? I'm just trying to spark some discussion, point out a few things, and see where it goes. Its all for reactions my dude. Thats how I get reads.

Pedit cause I don't want people to feel like I'm misrepping them. That irritates me. So I wanted to be explicit and transparent.

[Archwing]

Do you think it's a good question for scum to ask?

Yeah nah I have a bigger issue with misreps and whatnot. Actually bu and stef could attest I fucked up with regards to that in our last mini normal.

[Archwing]

Something I think I've done unconsciencely and I'm trying to fix.

[Archwing]

Explain yourself then?

[Archwing]

Archwing: Second version I did delete the first somehow

all I know is that brassherald might be a PL, apparently he can be awkward af, so be wary i suppose?

Why do you think he is a PL? I don't understand that.

maki how do you feel about rolling miller this game? have you ever played as miller before?

I will go back to defend myself about my treadment of the millerclaim (Preview: I am rusty on chances of side-meta regardless a role I haven't seen since 2012)
but why those questions?

124 gives me pause. Why did you when you were engaged go back to a vote on a person who hadn't posted at this time?

P-Edit: I looked at Koki, I have seen weird towncleams but not this claim, which was strange. Why don't you exspect people to react different?

i'll explain again. I'm not policy lynching brassherald. I'm saying that he is PL-able. He can be lynchbait. Don't fall for this right away. And, also as I said earlier, reference UCV. Mathdino, who I'm sure lots of you know, references to UCV as 2017 lynchbait. Y'know what I mean? Brass is just kinda really fuckin' weird. Let him play and don't autolynch the guy.

The miller questions @ maki were cause a)they claimed miller, so that something to talk about b)reaction test to see how other people were going to respond to that.

And yeah i was engaged a lot at that point in time. I was comfortable with the results i had gotten from my tests. At that point I then wanted to start a wagon, on Bu who at the time had not even checked into the game. I think d1 wagons are extremely important at end game mylo lylo situations.

[Archwing]

Archwing: Accepted.

Want to state somethink re last game. Me towards Mulch- you towards Moz, no big difference.
You were nightkilled and I think I looked better because how the next 2 days went.

@Mod: lol

i got nk'd that game, by BuJaber, 'cause i had tunneled him previous to Moz and had him SR'd, and so he killed me out of WIFOM.

But i'm not referencing that game for my town deathtunnel (oops), i referenced it with regards to misrepresentation, cause if you recall I had that blip with the quoting thing where I removed some the quote unintentionally, allegedly altering the meaning of it.

that's the shit i'm trying to correct in my life

[Archwing]

VOTE: Rask

don't let me down beef

this is sheeping or?

I think d1 wagons are extremely important at end game mylo lylo situations.

so kind of? i don't really townread you rn so i'm fine with my vote on you tbh

[Archwing]

yo maki.

not that i wanna discredit your vote and all

but thats the awkward bullshit i was talking about with brass. just a heads up, yeah?

pedit. yo, koki is probably town. just stop with this shit.

[Archwing]

there are too many anime alts in this game

[Archwing]

alt, main, acct, whatever.

the number of anime accounts is too damn high!

[/someone-who-doesn't-watch-anime]

[Archwing]

koki townread is gut mostly. i know a lot of their posts are nai and whatever.. but i dunno. i feel like their town. i really wish i could build a case on this but i can't rn. like i've said, my d1 play is pretty meh.

[Archwing]

bad list is bad

[Archwing]

town to scum,

{archwing}
{bujaber, koki, stef}
{cedrick, maki}
{wh4t, gamma, brass, kaito, beef} ****
{kiana, rask}

* = null line. above it are slight townleans, nothing more.

[Archwing]

because no one is hard town at this point to me yet.

i'll repeat. i'm not good at day 1. i do better with associations. i get gut reads n shit but i'm usually way off

[Archwing]

koki, you remember that large normal of dunkers that imploded? you did it there too. and a few other games i've creeped that you were in, that i spectated.

[Archwing]

hey long day at work. about have dinner and then i'll catch up the last 4-5 pages then i'll respond... saw a few questions for me

[Archwing]

Arch has 34 posts, I see a few "reaction tests" and no scum hunting.

VOTE: Arch

Townpoints to brassherald for this good vote.

Sorry buddy.

VOTE: Archwing

I would usually give townpoints for this good vote, but there is a maximum cap on these. Since Wh4t already hit the cap, it can't go higher from this small gesture. But, a pat on the back for you.

this is obviously biased, since i'm the target in question, but holy fuck this shit is bad. I really wish I rolled vig so i could just shoot you.

[Archwing]

town to scum,

{archwing}
{bujaber, koki, stef}
{cedrick, maki}
{wh4t, gamma, brass, kaito, beef} ****
{kiana, rask}

* = null line. above it are slight townleans, nothing more.

BuJaber bothers me because he seemed to be pandering to Kiana on his entrance e.g. his read on Stefan. It also bothered me that he had me as his only scum lean, yet he voted for Rask (again following Kiana's lead) for something he termed strange. When I pushed him to explain his scum read on me, he talked to me from the perspective he knew I was town. I mean, telling someone that their playstyle is "aggressive" and that it's not the best way to get responses from others is not a valid reason to scumread someone even if accurate. It felt like he was trying quite unnaturally to be reasonable to both me and those reading his posts (200,201). I find both his intent and approach suspect towards me.

In regards to Arch, he called him too scummy and reasoned that he must but a jester; however when Gamma pointed out that Jesters do not exist in this set-up, he said thanks but neglected to readjust his read of you.

In summary, so far it's all trying to look good and busy without actually doing anything I'd consder towny.

In fact I'm more confident in my BuJaber read than I am of my read on you.

VOTE: BuJaber

Arch what are your thoughts on BuJaber? He looks like a big town read to you.

Pat on the back rescinded for this vote. Why are you scumreading Bujaber? He has townpoints. I don't agree that following my reads is bad, when the fact is that my reads are good. This optimal to play to wincon.

don't really like kiana's intro, but probtown

...??What?

Good catch. Archwing calls me "probtown" but then in that nonsensical reads list he puts me as scum. Obviously, I've caught Archwing too, so he has no choice but to scumread me. Townpoints to Kokichi, massive scumpoints to Archwing.

notice when these posts were made? i said you were prob town.
then, like 150 posts later (which implies a passing of time, in which an opinion or read could change)
i know that might be hard to understand, but consider giving it "progression points" if that helps

[Archwing]

Today ends in an Arch lynch.

that only benefits you if you're scum.

[Archwing]

Kiana is an okay lynch I guess, but I want Arch flipped.

if you wanna know who I am, you can find it between pages 1 and 15.

[Archwing]

Can't tell if I can't see why Kiana is scum out of bias or I really can't see it.
Can someone explain to me why she's scum danke.

Only scum are scumreading me dearie~

it's ALMOST as if you're omgusing the people who scum read you..

[Archwing]

@arch
would you be willing to vote kiana with me?

yes, i would be willing to. but at this time, i'm not interested in moving my vote atm.

[Archwing]

@arch
would you be willing to vote kiana with me?

Mate, I really do not care if my scumreads vote on me. Weird that you have to make an exaggerated theatric to publically call for your buddy to vote me, that suggests scum do not have daytalk. That makes the game easier for us, I guess.

Daytalk is permanently enabled.

yeah this is a good post.

[Archwing]

Kokichi: This is to much for people to check. If you belive that people should check if someone lied, please be specific and make it easy to check.

yeah gotta disagree here stef. I think koki asked a pretty reasonable question there.

[Archwing]

@arch
would you be willing to vote kiana with me?

wat

Why are you rallying for someone who is voting you to sheep you?

I'd like to see where arch stands on me vs kiana since we're his two biggest scumreads.

yeah probably not svs there. This is where I wanna see a flip, look for associations, etc.

[Archwing]

so here is why kiana's point system is a dumpster fire of bottom-feeder trash.

ISO her please. Look for every instance she gives points.

1. confirmation bias
she just gives out "points" graciously wherever someone's read aligns with hers. This can be easily manipulated. She claimed it was not the case, and she only did it for people who voted me before she stated her SR on me, but there are explicit contradictions to this.

2. shitty reasoning
essentially, she gives points for aligned reads, and says "your reads = my reads. you're town!" or "you voted for my town read. You're scum!" pretty fuckin awful.

[Archwing]

but seriously what have you done to deserve any respect

[Archwing]

VOTE: Kiana

L-2

[Archwing]

on page 22. busy day at work, st patty's tonight.

v/la til monday night

[Archwing]

wow what a fucking shit show of a game.

[Archwing]

hey there cool kids. I've been slightly catching up/ reading throughout my v/la. Got to re-read through about 10 pages, and I'll catch up with y'all tomorrow afternoon.

[Archwing]

alright gonna start catching up and posting shit as I see it. so, spam is incoming. sorry, i prefer to post-by-post instead of walls, cause i don't read walls.

bear with me. I'll check updated replies as I go along... can anyone tldr the last couple IRL days? is stef's VC accurate? Kiana @ l-2?

[Archwing]

end of page 25, koki is annoying, but sadly he's town. wh4t looks pretty bad. Hikari's entrance is good, but i'm null reading for the moment.

[Archwing]

647 is pretty shit reasoning on its own, let alone on d1, with 11 IRL days left to go (~at the time of the post.)

[Archwing]

669
this is bad...

i know there was talk about kiana not having english as her first language? tbh that could play a huge part in tone reading and whatnot, so i'm going to leave shit like this to the side for now, and take it at face value. re-evaluate later.

[Archwing]

765 is a good analysis. this feels really genuine to me. I think at this point, rask has my first solid townread. cedrick come second, gamma third probably?

[Archwing]

end of 31... v/la discussion is laughable. hikari/wh4t feels TvT, which confuses my lean on wh4t. i'll see what the next pages have to offer.

[Archwing]

786.. ugh.
"Rask I can see flipping both ways.
Koki is probably scum but I need some flips to be sure.
Kaito is obviously lurking though not sure yet if that's AI. Would sort of depend on what alignment the biggest wagons are.
"
this is the most non-commital, get-out-of-jail-free blanket statement i've seen this game. please forget what i said about townlean BuJaber. this is bad

[Archwing]

a lot of people seem to be flaming hiraki for 788, but i don't really see it tbh. i think it was a fair question to ask.

[Archwing]

@wh4t
831
yeah, you were ready to flip me like 10 pages beforehand. you seem all over the place. I'm not really liking you
I wanna re-evaluate wh4ts interactions.

[Archwing]

835
rask is town.

[Archwing]

877 is a flashback to me vs Koki at the start of this game. lets not fall down this rabbit hole, yeah?

[Archwing]

@gamma
that was the worst part of the quote IMO. what i didn't put in was

Still happy with my vote on cedrick. Arch is a decent second choice.

Pretty confident with my SR-turned-TR of wh4t; consequently I'm leaning scum for hiraki.

I mean, it's not great. I townread cedrick so i dislike the vote. I'm town, so i dislike that i'm the second vote. his mulling on wh4t/hiraki is meh. but not what i was focused on. and i referenced the post number right there, i just highlighted what i didn't like.

what part of that do you not like?

[Archwing]

actually gamma can you case scum!hiraki for me in like 2 sentences? or maybe just reference me to where you started SRing him, i'd like to go back.
i finished my quick re-read... next i'm going back to iso'ing wh4t

[Archwing]

Holy crap. How is Hikari on L2. Am I missing something?

yeah doesn't really make sense.

re-read like the last 4 ish pages, it's kind of there? but it sorta came out of nowhere. it's a weird wagon.

[Archwing]

[Archwing]

koki if you're town i promise you don't want me lynched.

[Archwing]

also
UNVOTE: bujaber
good intro.
don't really like kiana's intro, but probtown.

town to scum,

{archwing}
{bujaber, koki, stef}
{cedrick, maki}
{wh4t, gamma, brass, kaito, beef} ****
{kiana, rask}

* = null line. above it are slight townleans, nothing more.

Hi Arch, sorry if this has already been addressed. But can you go over how Kiana went from prob town to scum for you? Just hashing out rereads around Kiana's wagon.

hi. i'm reading up, and i'm up to here. so,
UNVOTE:

@wh4t,
I liked how kiana intro'd. I thought it was pretty tone-aly not scum. but then it continued, and continued. I remembered the first time I rolled scum, i was pretty aggressive and played a "in your face" style. it didn't work for me. those were the vibes that i got from kiana as it went on and on.

[Archwing]

Would that even pass normal review (which this game semi went through)?

we could have even/odd night vigs. i've seen that before.

[Archwing]

yeah.

give kiana rope.

VOTE: kiana

sorry for the unvote, you didn't deserve it.

fly, Cedrick fly.

[Archwing]

re: setup spec / optimal play

from the little discussion i've had on this stuff,

scum CC'ing to out a PR just so they can NK them, thus losing the scum team member, is essentially not a good play. scum are better off shooting in the dark at night and trying to drive mislynches, and almost always on day 1. This is obviously different during lylo/mylo or later days, but yeah. bad d1 play.

maybe can we wait a sec for kiana?

i can't remember if she's responded since Ced's counter claim.

[Archwing]

2-3 names for cedrick to shoot from. That way the target is not known for sure but there's a better chance to catch scum

yo this is really important.

[Archwing]

Fyi through normal review process, vig is usually seem as negative town utility.

[Archwing]

Can someone tldr me as to why enough people actually think we have 2 vigs and kiana hasn't been lynched yet?

[Archwing]

... Not lynching in {ced, kiana} is terribad

[Archwing]

Yeah gamma is way more toxic than I realized

[Archwing]

Like guys

It's day one. This is time to deal with this shit. Do you honestly want to take this shit into day 2? No. Vote kiana in your next post please

[Archwing]

Kiana scum cedrick town

[Archwing]

how is this actually still a thing?

why the fuck is kiana not lynched yet.

[Archwing]

cedrick is pretty close to locktown as far as day one goes. there is no reality in which cedrick is getting lynched today. kiana should be lynched, but apparently collectively as a town we can't piece that together. the only other person i'd compromise on is wh4t. but i'd really really really prefer kiana. I don't want to sort this shit out tomorrow.

[Archwing]

Well, this was a game.

[Archwing]

in a way, i was actually happy to be d1 NK'd. I was not really happy with the 30 pages of cross-shoot talk. regardless.