Mini 1997: The Clownspiracy (Game Over!)

[Beefster]

hamburger beef
cheeseburger gamma
double cheeseburger wh4t
triple cheeseburger rask
mcdouble kokichi
bacon mcdouble kiana
big mac maki
egg mcmuffin kaito
sausage mcgriddles bujaber
quarter pounder with cheese brassherald
chicken mcnuggets archwing
mcchicken cedrick
filet-o-fish stefanB

fries : scum
hasbrowns : scummy
apple pie: towny
mcflurry : town

Are you softing Ronald McDonald?

I object.
VOTE: Rask

[Beefster]

On a more serious note, Maki's miller claim seems a bit too convenient. It seems really odd to me to lead with it regardless of whether it's legit or not.

[Beefster]

VOTE: Beefster

I think you may be rolefishing while trying to make it look like it's not serious.
But if you aren't serious that's an interesting place to put a non-serious/rvs vote given the VC

Uhm no. Definitely wasn't meant to be serious. I think you're overreacting.

[Beefster]

everyone's fighting each other, but atm I'd like reads on the table from people who haven't put weighed in so much atm before narrowing focus too hard.

What time did the man go to the dentist? Tooth hurt-y."

What kind of reads do you expect people to have this early?

Some people are way too eager and it feels fake.

^This.

I think Archwing is making a big deal out of nothing as well. I mean, I like reading the wiki as much as the next guy, but it never really sprung to my mind to look up how to play a miller, so pardon my ignorance and not paying close attention to detail.

Cedrick looks town to me. I'm not exactly sure how to explain it, but it looks reasonably consistent with his town play in the game I modded recently.

PS: Cedrick's posting restriction is great (even if it's self-imposed)

[Beefster]

Every once in a while, my RVS vote lands in a good place. Rask is a good option. Panicking from 3 votes on him? Survivalist. Posting cryptic reads? Misleading. Expecting reads on page 4? Tryhard.

More votes on Rask.

[Beefster]

A lot happened since my last post...

Rask is still as confusing as ever. Arch is looking more suspicious for some reason.

I'm going to have to do some ISOs to figure out why.

[Beefster]

VOTE: Rask

don't let me down beef

I think it might have been this and the rest was just confirmation bias?

Maybe. I recall a couple posts in there that seemed off like his "bad read list is bad" post or some of his other one-liner responses.

*shrug*

[Beefster]

Rask pointed out that he was weirded out by the lack of townhunting. Engage townhunting mode:

I think Cedrick is town.
I have a town lean on brassherald. I'm not really sure how to explain it.
I recall quite a few criticisms on Kiana's "point system" scumhunting. It's not AI. I've done it both as town and as scum. Her methods might be strange, but they're not scummy. Slight town lean here for making good points on 191 and 192

pedit: I see the pot is calling the kettle black.

[Beefster]

And you're not?

*raises eyebrow*

You've sort of been blowing everything out of proportion.

[Beefster]

It seemed out of place since he was suspicious of me not long before.

[Beefster]

Beefster can you please give some scum reads? I only note Rask in your ISO.

Rask - overly defensive, overreacting
Archwing - overreacting to the whole miller claim situation. Odd follow of me after previously suspecting me. Seems to be going after low hanging fruit. Would vote.
Wh4t - I forget why. Just a lean.
Gamma - very slight scum lean. Toneread/gut. Looks pretty normal for him, so it's probably nothing.

A lot of the player list looks scummy and accusations have been flying around so there's a lot of noise. They can't all be scum, so I'll just put them in the "null" bin for now.

[Beefster]

@arch
would you be willing to vote kiana with me?

wat

Why are you rallying for someone who is voting you to sheep you?

[Beefster]

I like kiana's system. Makes it very clear where she stands and how her reads change throughtout the game.

lmao the whiteknight is real
this is the de facto lynch if Kiana flips town

I agree it's a strange post, but why

that

conclusion?

[Beefster]

Wh4t's post makes a really good point. I think a lot of people here are making a big deal out of something that essentially amounts to a strange posting style.

[Beefster]

VOTE: Kokichi Oma
Actually this is scum. He's trying to play both sides by telling Kiana to claim and then suggesting an Archwing quicklynch.

This looks reactive / going after low hanging fruit.

Also, the post before it is strange. Gamma points to Kiana as having an agenda but admits that having an agenda is not necessarily scummy. And he also points out that she gives town points for agreeing and scum points for disagreeing. I can see his point I guess, but that sort of reaction is pretty normal. It's this lovely thing called confirmation bias and it's something I fall prey to all the time. At worst, she's simply wrong about her suspicions.

[Beefster]

VOTE: arch

I've been upside down on this but I think occam's razor says maybe this is just scum. Play has fell off a cliff from earlygame tbh.

What made you decide to switch your vote over?

[Beefster]

Why did you pull off the Kiana wagon though? Were you just not that into it in the first place?

[Beefster]

It feels very opportunistic and wreckless at best, to vote without all the information when VLA on a wagon that could potentially go through before his return.

Did you hear about the guy who invented Lifesavers? They say he made a mint.

With 11 days left in the game why are you worried about a lynch happening on somebody YOU scum read?

With 11 days left in the game do you honestly think a speed wagon and lynch are going to happen?

Even if it did, since it’s on your scum read, why would that be a bad thing?

Why would I be considered the reckless one instead of whoever joined after and actually speed lynched them?

Your thought process isn’t town. Hasn’t been from the beginning. I’m sorry you rolled scum. I’m even more sorry you played your hand wrong.

This post is so town it hurts.

[Beefster]

both wagons are town yawn

Why?

[Beefster]

Why did the invisible man turn down the job offer? He couldn't see himself doing it.

I can handle being scum read if you actually had reasons. You started with saying my posts were fluff when 1 was. You backed off.

Later you noticed I wasn’t posting and then declared v/la and said because I’m not sorting others I’m scummy. Well hello McFly. If im not posting at all clearly I’m not sorting. Im not even playing. Being busy or absent from the game isn’t AI. If I was active lurking that’d be one thing but I wasn’t even doing that.

You say I made a horribly opportunistic vote on somebody. I’m sorry but l-3 isn’t opportunistic. That’s a classic pressure vote. You want to know why? Because it just officially became a wagon. When greater than 50% of the required votes are placed, it’s an official wagon.

But wait. How on earth are you lecturing me on opportunistic voting? You placed arch at l-2 earlier in the game while going back and forth on if you wanted to actually scum or town read him. You gave absolutely no reason for it and you even apologized to him for it. I at least gave a reason for my vote and I certainly didn’t apologize.

I vote to lynch the Hypocrite
VOTE: wht4

Somebody guilty of opportunistic voting can’t turn around and accuse somebody else of the same.

Wh4t has been pinging me for a while. I think this is an avenue worth exploring. I'll sheep this.

VOTE: wh4t

[Beefster]

Also, 637 and 144 have the same joke.

[Beefster]

Stance on arch and kiana wagons, if you will.

The arch wagon is good, but it's troubling that it snowballed so quickly. There is probably scum on this wagon.

Kiana wagon was an overreaction. Probably scum on this wagon- moreso than Arch.

[Beefster]

VOTE: Beefster

I've changed my mind about wanting to end the day early. I think this is an avenue worth persuing. Rask will be happy.

This looks like backpedaling.

[Beefster]

Stance on arch and kiana wagons, if you will.

The arch wagon is good, but it's troubling that it snowballed so quickly. There is probably scum on this wagon.

Kiana wagon was an overreaction. Probably scum on this wagon- moreso than Arch.

Are you townreading Arch? Why?

Just to be clear, I do not think Arch is town. I just think the momentum on his wagon is a bit troubling.

[Beefster]

VOTE: Hiraki

Why?

[Beefster]

Beefster ICYMI I'd like you to be more specific on your judgments in 691.

It looks like a Wh4t is backing out of his previous vote by misdirecting attention to a new wagon and making it look like sheeping.

[Beefster]

Care to be more specific and explain why I should be quicklynched? How is that pro-town?

If I'm understanding your unvote correctly, you are backing out because you'll be pseudo-VLA for a bit. I can't help but wonder if it's misdirection.

[Beefster]

Care to be more specific and explain why I should be quicklynched? How is that pro-town?

If I'm understanding your unvote correctly, you are backing out because you'll be pseudo-VLA for a bit. I can't help but wonder if it's misdirection.

Pretty sure this is the second time you've used the misdirection argument. If I've voted/unvoted the majority of players it's pretty safe to say it's not misdirection.

Reasons for how quicklynching you is protown:

1. You're scum.
2. You're not gamesolving in any discernable way.
3. If you're town you haven't made it obvious enough that it would be safe to leave you until LyLo should we get that far.

Do you expect a flashing neon sign or something? I don't think most of the town has really made that clear tbh. I'd probably only consider Cedrick and Kiana safe to leave around until LyLo at this point.

I'm not sure how pressuring you isn't gamesolving. I don't really have anything to add to the Hiraki wagon and I think the Kiana wagon is way off.

[Beefster]

I quote Mastina about this in postgame(experienced mod)
Like, yes. The town had the strongest roles you can give a town:

Two alternating vigs (which for the sake of balance, are considered loosely equivalent to a single full Vigilante), cop, and Watcher are in fact three of the five strongest town roles we have in Normals. (The other two being Doctor and Jailkeeper, natch.)

The game was, undoubtedly, swingy. No two ways about it. ANY game with a vig will be. No ifs, ands, or buts. Vigs are one of the most swingy roles in existence, the most swingy role singleball has. Cops and watchers both are swingy roles as well, and so too was the scum role depending on how well or how poorly it was used. But the simple fact of the matter is, swingy setups can still be balanced, and this setup was about as balanced as it could get given the unpredictability of how many differing factors there were.

Here are the points about vig.

So we have 2 partial vig's. They both claimed X-shot. So it's like a regular vig.

Yeah it's strong. Yeah it's unlikely. But I'm not placing my bets on my two biggest town reads.

Let them make their kills. See how it pans out. Revisit it on D2.

[Beefster]

Wh4t's posting has been just plain bad. So has Gamma's.

I'm feeling sorta meh about Rask as compared to before. Arch is still an okay option, but he's been too lurky as of late for me to have a real opinion.

[Beefster]

How do you read kiana and cedrick ignoring claims?

I think I've made it pretty clear that I town read them both, putting aside claims.

[Beefster]

yawn

Back to your old wagon I see.

[Beefster]

Will beef vote kiara or no

No

[Beefster]

Can someone please vote Kiana so we can end this day. If she was town she wouldn't be this hard to lynch.

I'm not sure I really agree with this logic, particularly for D1. Bussing is so common site-wide that I would have expected a scum partner to have hammered by now for towncred if she was scum.

[Beefster]

VOTE: wh4t

Reparking. I think that's where my vote was already.

[Beefster]

I've tried to build a wagon with hiraki. I really don't understand how anyone is townreading him. And the kiana/ced thing came along and everyone got distracted.

No lynch thing is because I'm pretty sure that on my homesite before MS I was lynched every time I suggested no lynch. Like it's funny. They could be townreading me and I do it and suddenly all my posts are now scum-motivated. I just assumed mafia players are like that. I fully believe it makes sense in some scenarios but try to tell people that.

Summarize your case on wh4t. He kinda seems all over the place and confused.

Eh. It's not really that I townread him. I just don't feel all that strongly about his scumminess.

[Beefster]

I shot gamma. Kept looking at everything, I probably over analyzed but gamma was one of the people who made good points on Kiana and later said she didn’t think she was scum, she pushed the idea of cross shooting also.

My fault on that. Originally it was going to be Bu then Maki. Tbh I’m overthinking it but somebody on the wht4 wagon is scum.

I’m really glad my stupidity panned out, that was an awesome flip

Vote: Bu

I am get behind that.

VOTE: bu

I'm not sure I really understand your thought process. How does this make Bu scum?

[Beefster]

@mod: I'm going to be V/LA over the weekend

[Beefster]

I feel like I should have more to contribute right now. I guess I'm just a little confused.

I don't know what to make of wh4t/nsg. nsg's entrance seems pretty normal, and the point on locktown does look a bit odd. The associations are murky enough that I wouldn't really feel comfortable voting here.

I would still support a Rask lynch.

I'm not sure I'm on the same page as everyone else regarding Hiraki. Could someone summarize? Is it because of BuJ's track results?

Maki is probably town.
BuJ is town.
Cedrick is almost definitely town, but that was probably already obvious.
I think I can reasonably say that StefanB is town. I can understand why he reads me as null though.

That leaves 2 scum in {Kokichi, Rask, nsg, Hiraki, Kaito}

VOTE: Rask

[Beefster]

VOTE: Kaito

VOTE: Maki
I don't think it makes sense to lynch kaito if maki town -> kaito town (probably) and maki scum ->(probably still) kaito town [weird association?]

Lol

Okay if hiraki is actually scum then the team doesn't have a block I think, because scum move in that case I believe would be to accept that offer and stop vig shot.

Rask is grasping at straws here.

@mod: I'm going to be V/LA until Sunday

[Beefster]

Holy shit. I just realized Hiraki is on my obvtown neighbor.

I need to investigate this further.

[Beefster]

VOTE: Hiraki,

L-2

I still don't like his contribution since the CC one bit. (Would have to search if I even think one post was good)
I think he is own of the most likly partners for Kiana from his play.

I think she is more likly to townread her partners or see them as null.

Townreads:
Town
Cedrick +++++
Kokichi Oma +++
Wh4t ++
brassherald ++
Bujaber +

Gamma Emerald 0.5

Null:
Beefster 0
Maki Harukawa <3
Kaito Momota 0

Now of the waggon: Bras/Hiraki, Beefster, Maki.
I personally don't want to lynch Beefster today. This is my position.

Again

@ ALL

where is the scumtell here? This is the most opportunistic vote in the game and I'll be damned if I let it go.

From what I can tell in my quick pass before I pick my friend up from the train station, this is Hiraki's only reasoning for his StefanB vote.

I clearly have not been paying that great of attention this game. Call it fake if you want, but between my V/LA last weekend and the site going down, I just haven't had much time to put into my games.

VOTE: Hiraki

[Beefster]

OK - so you voted me without telling me what the scumtell is, good talk?

The scumtell is that your reason for voting Stefan is nonsensical and only seems to be justified by that one post.

[Beefster]

OK - so you voted me without telling me what the scumtell is, good talk?

The scumtell is that your reason for voting Stefan is nonsensical and only seems to be justified by that one post.

And townies can't do what I did because...?

Because it's weak reasoning I would have expected to be superseded by now.

[Beefster]

So what? Anyone can act townie or use that sort of concept as a litmus test.

[Beefster]

Hiraki is spinning his wheels and getting nowhere. More votes on Hiraki.

[Beefster]

VOTE: Rask

Baa!

[Beefster]

Hi, Beefster has told me he JK Kaito. At the moment just collecting data.

Confirming this, BTW.

All this really tells us is that either Kaito did not make the kill or I was roleblocked. Given his lurky play up to this point, that doesn't really mean anything.

I could see a Rask/Kaito scumteam.

[Beefster]

Maki already said my claim.

Neighborizer, right?

Help a guy out here. I don't usually pay close attention to details.

[Beefster]

And we are searching for 2 scum.
For the neighborhoodclaim to be false we have Koichi, Maki and Kaito all lying, imposible.

If anyone is lying, it would be Kaito, but either way, Kochiki probably townread both or else he wouldn't have neighborized them.

[Beefster]

Beefster?????
At the moment there are 3 people who are telling the same story.
At last one of them is town, so the story is true.
Scum does only lie when it helps them.
You can ask Kokichi why he did it.

That's not exactly what I meant. I'm just saying he could be scum. He's obviously not lying about the neighborhood.

[Beefster]

Beefster can you actually go into your reads. I think one of you and bujaber are probably scum via massclaim but you not being possible as teamed with kaito anymore is a little concerning because that's what I had assumed.

BuJ - town
StefanB - probably town
kokichi - town by claimed role
Rask - I've seen plenty of scum fruit vendors / messengers.
Maki - town because miller claim?
Kaito - scum but didn't make kill
Wisdom - slot confirmed vig shot. JOAT? Definitely town since there are no SKs.

I guess I could see Kokichi or Maki as scum (maybe both - it would be quite the gambit strategy and would work pretty well as Kiana partners), but today, my money's on Rask and Kaito.

[Beefster]

So StefanB got me thinking... Maybe I've been following a red herring this entire time. I've hit a dead end. I think I've been wrong this whole time. Probably also a mix of laziness and OMGUS. Whatever it is, I need to back up and re-evaluate the position I find myself in.

Thing is: I realized I can't pair you with anyone, let alone Kiana.

I think I was actually onto something with my alternative. Kokichi and Maki

both

partner well with Kiana and it would be quite the move to neighborize the claimed miller with some random lurker. Kaito and Kokichi still works though.

VOTE: Kokichi
As the common thread in this theory. Would also vote Kaito.

[Beefster]

Lotta wheels spinning, but not a whole lotta progression. I don't feel like anything new has really come forth in the last couple IRL days.

VOTE: Kaito

[Beefster]

pfft

[Beefster]

This wagon on me is bullshit and it's way off base. I'm not scum. I have nothing more to say.

[Beefster]

Announcing intent to hammer Kaito.

I will confirm whoever you want me to.

[Beefster]

I will clear Kokichi.

Any last words?

[Beefster]

VOTE: Kaito

[Beefster]

Kokichi is cleared.

VOTE: StefanB

No other possibilities.

[Beefster]

Had a little talk with Beefster just know.
I can confirm that the discusion of a parallel to Kianas role is bassless.
Confirm vote 100% by the way.

I don't know what you're talking about here.

What I said in the neighborhood had nothing to do with Kiana's role and a parallel to it.

Where are you getting said idea?

[Beefster]

LIES!

I made no such claim.

[Beefster]

Just pick someone. I have nothing to say.

[Beefster]

You chose...







Correctly.

ggwp