Mini 1997: The Clownspiracy (Game Over!)
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Brass: If I follow the logic, we are allready at L-7, the question is why is other than Kokichi.
@Mod: Could it be that you have a mistake at your votecount, shouldn't Maki be at L-6?
Wh4t, GE: Interesting that LAME (which I don't disagree with I am not funny) is the point you are stresing.
And you don't think that the question why Maki is a miller could give us some hint about the scumteam?
P-Edit: And I will promise to not be on a townCW this time. Hello Archwing.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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UNVOTE: Bujaber
Wh4t:
Okay I googled Lamist so I understand now what you mean sorry for the misunderstanding I thought it came from lame.
If you believe I am scum, why is the point that someone sheeps you to my waggon so suspicios?
I consider that why is Krusty a miller may not help now, but I think the question, can be important later.
Since I am going reverse alphabetic, I started there because I thought I had more than I had.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Ras Has 33 post, content:
at last for the first 12 votes, am I missing something?i think it's best to ignore the claim for now, vote was rvs
That is somethink else that I found interesting, how much do people activly townhunt in this game on the first 24 hours, for me that is the moment when my reads are very smal.I figured out why this game feels a little weird. Usually there's both scumhunting and townhunting/cohesion, but here it's like all scumhunting.
Okay there are some reads, but for this many posts there is very little substance.
VOTE: Raskolnikov
Can be that I am chancing my mind when I am true with every player.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Kokichi: Very weird game.
First post. Ugh.
The vote for Arch is weird, because his(Kokichi) first post at last implied he was not town.
Scum-lean
Gamma:
You don't think I townread him.
Very little substance.
Has he even really started playing the game?
Bras:
Okay content.
Gut says townlean.
I found the policy lynchdiskusion weird. I don't see anything in his posts that would lead in that direction.
Is there any history I don't know?
I will not coment on Kaito because there is not much to coment on.
Maki is fine, I am waiting what she does when she can do whatever she wants.
The others need more words, so break now.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Archwing: Second version I did delete the first somehow
Why do you think he is a PL? I don't understand that.all I know is that brassherald might be a PL, apparently he can be awkward af, so be wary i suppose?
I will go back to defend myself about my treadment of the millerclaim (Preview: I am rusty on chances of side-meta regardless a role I haven't seen since 2012)maki how do you feel about rolling miller this game? have you ever played as miller before?
but why those questions?
124 gives me pause. Why did you when you were engaged go back to a vote on a person who hadn't posted at this time?
P-Edit: I looked at Koki, I have seen weird towncleams but not this claim, which was strange. Why don't you exspect people to react different?-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Brass: Not confortable there. It is not end of the day. But process of elimination.
Archwing no. I am starting to be more suspicious here, but not enough to make this a priority.
Beefster, Gamma, Kaito: No read there, all not very much in the game (Yes Gamma is posting may get more soon)
Maki: That would be a paranoia-lynch (Actually the beloved which I think will not work in Lylo is scarier than the miller) but no.
You no not interested.
Who: I remembered him worse than he was, I disagree with him, but no reason to lynch here.
BuJaber: I will address him later, but I don't think that he is a lynchcandidat.
Cedric and Kiana (will have to be very careful not to confusse all the players with Anime-names, sorry If I do): Both are still on my list for closer inspection, I am not sure what to make of them.
That leaves Kokichi and Raskolnikov. Both would be at the moment my lynch-candidates if I have to choose. Perhaps more Raskolnikov because Kokichi is stated by some players who know him to not be that unusual. (@all: Please tell me he isn't a difficult to read VI)
P-Edit: I agree with Cedric re cop-play. This play safed us in the game Archwing mentioned earlier.
Btw: What is the connection between all the anime-players?-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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And the rolefishing:
I didn't rolefish!!!!!!!!
I asked if the claim was real or a joke. (We were in RVS and I don't know the players involved)
I asked for a name with the claim and if there was a reason why this person is a miller.
I have only very old meta on millers. My main meta is unfortunatly tigereaten. And if I remember correctly as a miller I was grilled more than once about the last point. (It was a soccer-Upick and I chose a German player, but the mods were fans of England)
I thought those question as standard. I see now that my plan is outdated in that fashion.
Then I asked why Maki did not remember the name of her role.
Can any of you who are stating I was rolefishing how any of this was going after the role? What is the reason for a potential mafia-me to do that?-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Bujaber short:
Why the speculation about Jester in a normal game (Would have been more interesting if GE hasn't posted this)
Okay, please that is completly stretching. We have allready established humor isn't my strong suit. (So what I am doing in this game next question please)Pedit - oh forgot stefan: didn't like his opening post RVS means we ignore most of the post but focus on the kittle things. If it was a joke he's making about me always being scum why would he feel the need to state that I was scum in one game he was also in? A joke is a joke doesn't need to be backed by evidence. If he is serious he's just wrong and would imply his RVS post isn't and RVS post which is just scummy too.
You stated that you allways get mafiaroles on this site after our last game if I remember correctly. So that made sense to base a vote on in RVS.
Interesting thinking botched the joke=scum.
And do you think that any reason exept a repatation as enormous bad player can get someone lynched in RVS. (Disclaimer I don't think Bu is that)
Bu is also one of the players who are not really have posted much to lean on. The points above give me pause.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Now Kiana:
Most of her scumpoints seem to be on minor thinks in RVS.
What is the history between Kiana and Maki. And Maki and Kokichi. And Maki and Kaito?
Interesting that she does give points based on if she aggres with the vote or not.
Actually how much of this chances if her own reads are wrong?
Don't like the excange with Wh4t. Feels wrong somehow.
Cedric:
A lot of analisis posts.
Post 113:
feels wrong. Why are you saying this. Sounds like a tread. If you think Wh4t is scum than he would let him dig his own grave or attack. If he thinks he is town, wouldn't he react differently.You think you proved something but you didn’t. I’d probably keep my mouth shut also if I were you.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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VOTE: Gamma Emerald
Okay the reads feel not very helpful.
About the Makiread:
Maki stated in post 1 about this(132), that she belives that whatever Kokichi is doing is not aligment-indicative and the fight with Archwing is stupid.
The next 3 post critizice the vote from Kokichi towards Archwing.
Mind you if I would guess from the post then Maki sees Archwing vs Kokichi as tvt.
How Gamma comes to his conclusion is mindblowing.
Not paying attention points to scum.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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I give everyone defending that that claimed is a bit strong.
But the implication is there, that Kokichi isn't town. Tongue in check, but it is there.
Was Archwing overstating what happened yes. Calling it a lie is also overstating it.
Now does what GE stated really stop that he is misinterpreting what Maki clearly stated.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Actually:In post 280, Gamma Emerald wrote:Stefan let me break this down.
>Kokichi says "what would you think if I did X"
>Arch think Kokichi is actually doing X
>Kokichi tells Arch they got it wrong
>Arch corrects themself
>Maki says Arch's statement was right
>I point that out as strange
Is this simple enough for you to understand?
>Kokichi says "what would you think if I did X"
>Arch interpretes that as Kokichi is actually doing X
>Kokichi interpretes this as lying and votes Arch for it.
>Maki states this whole think is stupid and asks them to stop
>Kokichi questions Maki on it
>Then we get to the dialog between Maki and Kokichi
>You called that continuing the push.
Is that simple enough?-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Gamma: Okay doki.
I begin with 261: Kokichi appears, offers not much. Disappears.
Your vote and unvote:
Makes not much sense to me. The vote is okay, the unvote is a bit more unsure. (263,264)
Brass: I accept that vote. Not much of an opinion on it.
Our discusion:
I can see where someone get the litteral expresion re the Archwing-Kokichi, I still can't see how you got to your interpretation of the interaction between Kokichi-Maki. This why I am asking people.
Kiana: I kind of see where Ras comes from.
Beefster: I have my doubts there, but I will not at the moment vote there.
Makis reads: I will comment on the scumreads.
I don't share the brass read, I have him as town, find the Kokichi one interesting.
That from the point were you asked me, I will coment further later.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Since we are at the moment at admiting stuff that we didn't get and I thing this is at last a slight towntell for Archwing.In post 134, Archwing wrote:i got a n0 flavor cop on him. he's pennywise.
I did only realise that today. So evil clowns like Pennywise or the Joker can easily be town.1. 13 town roles were written.
2. 3 of the roles were randomised to be mafia. Any necessary changes were made to fit their new alignments (for example, no Mafia Innocent Child).
3. Any necessary tweaks were made to balance the two sides.
4. Mafia were given their original town role PMs as safeclaims.
5. The 13 role PMs were randomly distributed to the 13 players.
Sorry that makes my question why Miller to Maki completly usless.
I think that is even less likly fake than Wh4ts 2 scum. (Probably true but was in one post were he corrected his mistake)
I don't give that much about Kianas 436. That one could be easily fake.
I give you there is no garanty that scum would know the one posted above, but imho likly.
Archwing: You had BuJaber as if I understand your list correctly as one/your biggest townread. Why?
Funny think is I wanted to ask Wh4t the same question in reverse, but I allready got an answer.
I give you that I had a certain theory but Kianas 436 destroyed that one.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Kokichi: This is to much for people to check. If you belive that people should check if someone lied, please be specific and make it easy to check.In post 363, Kokichi Oma wrote:In post 349, Kokichi Oma wrote:
I think this is a cover upIn post 222, Archwing wrote:Koki does this every game. I was reaction testing other people to see who would jump on it with me. No one did.
Can people comment on this? Think I caught Arch in a lie. Unless he can show me another game we were in together that I don't remember?In post 350, Kokichi Oma wrote:Actually, it definitely is because the game I played with Arch in the past, I didn't do that. I think he's copying what brass said earlier.
What I don't like about Kokichi: His question (which you can discripe what you want, I don't think it helps if we have another war to try to determine how it should be defined) was fishing for a reaction.
He got one and his whole game is centered around it. (One point re Maki and one read withstanding)
I also don't like this from him:
A bad player can of course be scum. (I remember some players who even said some VI are extremly easy to read, not implying that Koichi is a VI)Also Maki, if you think I'm a shit player, why are you saying it's scummy for what I'm doing? Is that out of them realm for someone who plays like "shit"?
This is not bad player or scum.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Not quite what happened. I was catching up and looked at people in ISO. Should be obvious, I you check my post. It should also be obvious that I started at reverse alphabetic order and got from there at the beginning. I did leave a few players with a lot of posts for later (I don't remember if Kiana was the only one) and in the end got more random.In post 397, Kiana Kaslana wrote:
Townpoints for this good vote, butIn post 215, StefanB wrote:Ras Has 33 post, content:
at last for the first 12 votes, am I missing something?i think it's best to ignore the claim for now, vote was rvs
That is somethink else that I found interesting, how much do people activly townhunt in this game on the first 24 hours, for me that is the moment when my reads are very smal.I figured out why this game feels a little weird. Usually there's both scumhunting and townhunting/cohesion, but here it's like all scumhunting.
Okay there are some reads, but for this many posts there is very little substance.
VOTE: Raskolnikov
Can be that I am chancing my mind when I am true with every player.
It was removed within two posts. Nothing could have possibly happened within these two posts, so not only the townpoints have been rescinded, but there is also a penalty. The vote almost feels like a scam to earn townpoints but actually wanting to vote correct scum Raskol. So, in total this gained some scumpoints.In post 217, StefanB wrote:ActuallyUnvote:
I don't know how I feel about Beefster pushing it and Archwing following.
I voted Ras after ISOing him and than realised what was happening on the waggon.
Are you even paying attention to what one of your scumreads is doing.
In post 398, Kiana Kaslana wrote:
How is Cedric an anime name? It's a very common western name, please do not give excuses as to why you may not want to form a read on the towniest player on my list. Kiana isn't a common name but it isn't necessarily an anime/Japanese name either. I mean, in my case it is, but it's the same situation as Naomi, which happens to be a common African American name as well.In post 246, StefanB wrote: Cedric and Kiana (will have to be very careful not to confusse all the players with Anime-names, sorry If I do): Both are still on my list for closer inspection, I am not sure what to make of them.
I find it difficult to believe you cannot come to a conclusion to, in my perspective, the exact two towniest people in the game. Scumpoints.
I thought, wh4t was your biggest townread?
The animenames I meaned were Kiana, Maki, Kaito and Kokichi. Yes I was unclear that that with the names did only aply to Kiana. And with confuse I meaned that I was at that state of game afraid I would type the wrong name.
And why I wasn't giving out reads here: Bras question was for me at a bad time. I was analysing all players, and there were some I didn't got to do in full detail at this point.
There were Cedric, Kiana and BuJaber .
I knew that Cedric and Kiana would take some time and I didn't want to be so mean to let a player waiting so long.
So I first did answer Bras than takeld the last 3 players. (okay first I answered a point that got on my nerves)
Should be obvios by the way, If you were paying attention.
We can criticise my order, yes.
By the way since you seemed to miss it, the post addresing you and Cedric. (yes I was doing the last 2 in one post was 258 Iso 15)
Are you even trying to analise the circumstances of posts or are you nitpicking only those thinks that fit your pointsystem.
Okay really angry now. Did you evenIn post 401, Kiana Kaslana wrote:
What is the reason for a potential mafia to learn a townie's role? Hmm, I wonder. Maybe so that it will give you information and know whether Maki is a threat to shoot tonight or not.In post 251, StefanB wrote:And the rolefishing:
I didn't rolefish!!!!!!!!
I asked if the claim was real or a joke. (We were in RVS and I don't know the players involved)
I asked for a name with the claim and if there was a reason why this person is a miller.
I have only very old meta on millers. My main meta is unfortunatly tigereaten. And if I remember correctly as a miller I was grilled more than once about the last point. (It was a soccer-Upick and I chose a German player, but the mods were fans of England)
I thought those question as standard. I see now that my plan is outdated in that fashion.
Then I asked why Maki did not remember the name of her role.
Can any of you who are stating I was rolefishing how any of this was going after the role? What is the reason for a potential mafia-me to do that?readthe post you quoted?
How could my question give me that info. I try to make it clear again.
1. Is this claim real or a joke?
2. What is your rolename?
(Btw I still stand that those questions are standard)
3. Why are a miller? (anyone reading my post 443 should get a slight idea, why the question was stupid but also why I asked it)
4. Why don't you remember your rolename?
Now Kiana will probably continue to call it rolefishing. But how I could get the information she states I was after by asking that questions will probably a riddle for eternity.
Second Kiana posting coming soon.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Okay didn't have time until now, so my points re Kiana part 2:
I don't like her pointing system at all. (Okay no suprise here)
Here are my main objections from a theoretical standpoint.
1. The main-foundation is RVS based.
2. It confirms reads rather than questions them and when they are from the RVS...
3. One think wrong and everythink goes boom. (Just play the game, what If scumread X is town, what would that mean for the other reads.
4. Its an exelent tool to make people do what Kiana wants (Okay I wanted to write bully first but that is to strong), aka vote for the people she finds scummy, to get townpoints.
5. It is completly reaction not proactive.
Okay really bad:
Post 159 Scumpoints for a confusing nonsenspost in RVS in a game of clowns (And I thought I had problems with humor)
Post 160,166: Scumpoints for RVSvotes.
Points that are only make sense if her reads are right: 165,166,167,180
I also don't like this post is usless scumpoints 170
Scumpoints for voting her: 396,403
Other points: Potential budying to Maki in 173 Potential connection to Beefster in 175
really funny considering the flow 173,174: First stats that she wouldn't people ever let policylynch Maki and than goes after Ras who makes a somehow similar statement
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And one interesting think I noticed: There was that think yesterday with wh4ts maxed out townpoints, here is her pointlist:
V2
Lady Kiana Kaslana
Town
Cedrick +++++
Kokichi Oma +++
Wh4t ++
brassherald ++
Bujaber +
Gamma Emerald 0.5
Beefster 0
Maki Harukawa <3
Kaito Momota 0
StefanB ---
Raskolnikov -----
Archwing ------
Scum[/quote]
(without colors)-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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I give you the same promise I did give everyone before. If it gets to bad tell me and I replace out.In post 460, Kiana Kaslana wrote:
What theory is it?In post 443, StefanB wrote:I give you that I had a certain theory but Kianas 436 destroyed that one.
Can you please type properly? I find it difficult to understand your posts.
Sorry it takes a long time for me to type (Second language) and I find it funny that this comes one post before you stated that you basicly don't care what I do or why I do it.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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You get that later I think. This was a misunderstanding what "maxed out town-points" meaned.In post 462, Kiana Kaslana wrote:
No, Cedric is my biggest townread. Can you please read my Points post? I really cannot see how anyone possibly misunderstands that.In post 447, StefanB wrote:I thought, wh4t was your biggest townread?-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Okay my problem is, is Kiana not seeing the danger that her system brings or is she ignoring them because they are good for her.In post 464, Kiana Kaslana wrote:
Okay, fair points raised against my system, but how do these make me scum? Are any of your criticisms actually something that scum would do?In post 458, StefanB wrote:Okay didn't have time until now, so my points re Kiana part 2:
I don't like her pointing system at all. (Okay no suprise here)
Here are my main objections from a theoretical standpoint.
1. The main-foundation is RVS based.
2. It confirms reads rather than questions them and when they are from the RVS...
3. One think wrong and everythink goes boom. (Just play the game, what If scumread X is town, what would that mean for the other reads.
4. Its an exelent tool to make people do what Kiana wants (Okay I wanted to write bully first but that is to strong), aka vote for the people she finds scummy, to get townpoints.
5. It is completly reaction not proactive.
Can you propose a better system and show me that it works better?
Your system doesn't seem realistic, I should perhaps check if you are a newbie, but for an experiencent player to have a system like this is a (and now comes the part were this whole thinks gets a bit personal) is either a VI or a scumtell.
Better system, uhm no system?
Thinks that it does ignore: CONTENT, other opinions, bussing, reads beeing wrong, the whole game?
I will read some of your past game to find out if my fear for your system is correct.-
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Read my posts. Did I focus on you today, yes. Always is false. I have given posts directed at other players. I don't do a were do you stand completly ever day.In post 480, Kiana Kaslana wrote:I am liking StefanB's most recent posts. He might not be scum after all. He is doing much better than the other two scumreads so there is a very good comparison too.
Stefan I want to know how you are reading other players instead of always focusing on me.
Have I given a read on everyone, no there are players I haven't given a read one, some of them I haven't got a read one.
If someone has a good idea how to engage Kaito for example I am all ears.
Pre-edit: Bu-Jaber the system makes it clear where she stands, okay. This is a plus.
I have stated the minus. The question is does it produce good content?-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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BuJaber:
Looked at you once more.
What I found strange is the following:
Shows him quite informed, in the same post were he speculates about JestersMiller claim probably just means miller. Likely town but anyway millers don't survive till end game. We vig or lynch before lylo. Considering mod gave out fakeclaims I don't think anybody will be counterclaimed. That defeats the purpose.
This was the reason for the vote on Raska, can you make this a bit more clearer, what your point was for your first vote, since exept correcting your votingmistake.Raska going off on beef for his Ronald McDonald comment seems strange. You made a post that makes anyone who doesn't live in a jungle think about mcdonald's.. why is it scummy for him to mention it? So what if you are ronald? How would that tell us your role/alignment?
Also other from your iso:
Why do you think Gamma is quiet?Gamma seems a little too quiet. Do you have experience playing with him?
About the content that Kianas system gives(BuJabers last post) I quote myself:1. The main-foundation is RVS based.
2. It confirms reads rather than questions them and when they are from the RVS...
3. One think wrong and everythink goes boom. (Just play the game, what If scumread X is town, what would that mean for the other reads.
4. Its an exelent tool to make people do what Kiana wants (Okay I wanted to write bully first but that is to strong), aka vote for the people she finds scummy, to get townpoints.
5. It is completly reaction not proactive.Thinks that it does ignore: CONTENT, other opinions, bussing, reads beeing wrong, the whole game?-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Kiana, Gamma: That was fascinating.
From Kiana I got she was in a game, replaced out, Gamma took the slot over and selfhammered as town.
Gammas response seemed to tell a different story.
Then Kiana mentioned the game and yep her story is true.
Arrgh. No selfvotes or even selfhammers as town please. (If you are scum be my guest)
I can't say that Kianas reactions make me feel good, but I don't want to get tunnelvision here
I want to post more but no time.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Okay this day will be hairy, I am not sure what I will post.
But BuJaber I will respond, too.
Okay the Jester think, it is a roundaboutway to defend Archwing. This is why it is remarkable. And the high townread of BuJaber by Archwing was remarkable also.
Short theorypoint: Jesterspeculation in a closed setup on mafiascum is pointless. It is the most hated role on this bord (This is old meta) and if you ever mod a game don't inclued it, or prepare for very heated post-gamediscusion (Execption perhaps Marathon-games)
The point about gammas inactivity is that it came from you:
Gamma: 60 posts
BuJaber: 15 posts.
(In both times of my question and this time Gamma has the 3rd most post in the game, first time tied whit Wh4t)
This is not comment on Gammas aligment, but the question why BuJaber perception is so different from the objective reality is interesting.
Second time there is a strange strong Kaitoread. I would also call him 0 and give everyone that he has done probably zero scummy thinks and somethink that I would call midly towny (The Huh? after Makis townread on him) but that is the second strange read on this slot.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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To be fair to Koichi this quote is practually his game:
He has been on Archwing, since Archwings reaction to his oppening.Kiana is an okay lynch I guess, but I want Arch flipped.
And he has Kiana as a secondary scumread since he reacted to her first posts.
So him fulling both waggons or better beeing on the Archwingwaggon while liking the Kianawaggon, too is nothing new.
I will post my thoughts about theory at the next post, for everyone, who wants to skipp it.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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About counterwaggons:
I have seen games, were both waggons day 1 were on scum.
I even were on a game (with 2 scumfactions) were we managed to have every vote on day 1 on the members of one scumteam. (Okay one player was not voting) (all 3 members of scumteam A were voted)
So it is not imposible, I doubt that we are this good at the moment.
And a scumteam of Archwing-Kiana is not very high on my likly radar.
And I think (and I am sorry for that, because I may be guilty about it, too) we should be careful about discusion why people are bad at this game, when it has nothing to do with the game. It makes the game unpleasent and much harder to read.-
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Since when do you have that read? The last one was that Kiana and Archwing can't be both scum. You were quite suspicious of Archwing earlier.In post 600, Gamma Emerald wrote:Archwing is town, stahp-
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Who do you find scummy. I know of Archwing, Kiana anyone else?In post 609, Kokichi Oma wrote:How are all these people so scummy, is this a role madness game at all?-
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For Kiana:In post 666, Kiana Kaslana wrote:No, you are the one who should screw off. I am trying out a new system and you are taking a dump on it with unconvincing arguments. I am not sure if you are anti-newbie or anti-women or are upset that one with both of those traits can be better than you but all I know is you are getting in my way and playing anti-town.
With your own method you get pocketed by scum who are both pushing the same agenda as you and not pushing the same agenda as you. At least I can say my method is better on this front. I mentioned I only awards points for thinking similarly if they had the thought before I could state it, which is okay, but you should go find that evidence for yourself instead of making me doing busywork for you. I am not your little bitch. It is very obvious from my previous posts which you are clearly not reading. I don't know if you are not reading because you are stubborn, lazy, bad at reading, or just plain scum. Unfortunately three of those options are town-possible and only one is scum. Unfortunately again, only way I can maintain my sane respect for you is if you are the latter.
*headdesk* to quote somethink from another side.
First off there are a few people who had problems with your system, BuJaber likes it. What makes GEs post that much worse?
Your reaction comes from anger at the moment and this makes you look worse. (Personal experience anger is not a tell for alligment exspecially if it goes about general isues, some scumplayers like to go angry because it can give them an out)
Anti-newbie: This may hurt, but some newbies are pretty easy to read, others are not... If you play with someone more often, you can see were there quirks are and they are easier to read.
Beeing to sure of your reads, is the only think that I see mentioned with newbies. It is a danger everythink should be aware off.
Anti-women: You push that in another game before and I see that the back and forth between GE and you got personal.
Kind of the start was probably that:
Kiana
I will not go into who came out worse in what followed. The problem is if the discusion reach the point were the question is who is the worse player, I never seen it not getting ugly.What do you know about my meta? The only completed game we have involved you self-hammering my slot and throwing the game for town.
About your system, this is somethink new. It was not completly easy to understand.
Lets take your biggest townread from your pointsystem for example: I think you awarded 3 townpoints for his jokes, and 2 townpoints for the vote on Archwing, but this is more a guiss from me than beeing sure.
About not reading this is funny because we had the same discusion twohundred post ago, with you in the other postition.
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For everyone:
Kiana defense is at the moment: Attack the attacker. Be very agresive. She is also using appeals to emotion.
This can be playstile. (Not a pleasant or easy one to read mind you)
It is also the easy route to defend if you don't have logic arguments.
It also gets the discusion away from the question is she scum/town to who is the worse player or even worse person.
Don't let it get there.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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Kiana nice try.
First yes I joined mafiascum some time ago, but had a long break. So my meta is old(miller for example) and I know nearly no players in this.
So no appeal to authority from me.
I find it hard to read the discusion with you and Gamma.
The big difference between the situation is: There is no history between you and me our diskusion didn't go in personal ground, so it is more neutral than the one you have with Gamma.
So the argument will also be less neutral, than it would be if that wasn't there.
Note also the Gammas was commenting on your system after a few other players.
So it is normal that it isn't as detailed.
Now if your theory is that he does that because you caught Raskolnikov and Archwing. Do you think that you had the influence that you scumreading them, would neccesary get them lynched? Do you think the timming, after several people were voting you, would make this necesary? He was when he did that a slight townread, wouldn't it be safer to not do it and stay hidden?
It is an interesting theory but it would be very risky scumplay.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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The votes that made the waggon go from was a waggon to L-1 were Kaito, Raskolnikov and Wh4t:
Kaitos reasoning was Kiana is not scum and Archwing is pushing that waggon as counter.
His alligment is ????. He apperently lurks as town or as scum.
I have nothing scummy from him.
Interesting is that he appeared on townlist twice very high. (Maki and BuJaber)
Raskolnikov stated that he switched here because he was sure Kiana was not happening.
Wh4t:
He danced around a scumread on Archwing all day. He voted him 3 times today. (Okay 2 if you don't count the L-1, replacement, okay unvote give the replacement time to catch up, revote)
I would say between the unvote and the revote we can call him on the waggon in spirit.
He is extreme votehopping. (I have seen town do that to get reads, did I myself sometimes)
If there is scum that drove the waggon fast, Raskolnikov and/or Wh4t would have to be it, not counting Kaito, whose first vote Archwing was.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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If Gamma was after lynching Kiana with no question asked, Ras offer would have been easy.
So that was pretty townie.
Kokichi wins the *if you reread this game, you will be sorry about this posts award"
Ras: That was pretty much a okay how to get the lynch is not important, I want to get it no matter what.
I agree with Gamma this is more of a scummindset.
@Mod: Is Wh4t really voting Archwing and Beefster. I thought he unvoted the former.
The real joke is Mathdino's inability to do basic math.
Fixed.-
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Okay to tackle the Cedric-Wh4t-Bujaberstuff:
Cedrics game:
Post 0: Joke
Post 1+2: Millerdiscusion
Post 3-5: Discusion of Wh4t-Cedric 1
6-13 Beefster, Archwing, Millerdiscusion
14-16: Explaining why he has no reads. (Here is the stated townread, from wh4t)
17: Jokexplanation
18: Reaction to wh4t and Kiana (here we can see the seed that the scumread comes from)
19: Info re cop and Millerplay
20: VLA
21: Criticize Bras who is suspicios of him.
22: Vote on the Kianawaggon.
Now where did Kiana the supertownread from him? She like his jokes and his vote an Archwing.
Now to be fair to Cedric he does admite that his play was great, the clearest in post 700(Iso 36), but 549(Iso 24) went in that direction.
Now his vote: My first reaction was also huh, vote on VLA, the highest waggon, this sounded as if he wanted to reduce his responsibility, but on the other hand: We are still early on day 1, should we except the first waggon to go through without a big consent in town or a unconsented hammer, which is very rare on the first L-1 waggon on day 1.
Okay the problem could be that since he wasn't there he could have a good defence about the responsibility of the mislynch, but if that waggon gets to a hammer on a potential town-Kiana how much scrutinity goes to the L-3 voter Cedric anyway.
So I see were he comes from in 637.
One question remeans for me: Why did you unvote Kiana so fast when she was at L-1?
Sorry I sort of got sidetrapped.
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What I don't find suspicious is the active during VLA. You have more time than you thought you have, happens. And the scummotivation to declare VLA to lurk and giving low content, than not to use it, is interesting.
I can see it, if there is very high pressure that you break your VLA, but this is not an aligment-tell.
About the lies:
1 is dumb, were those post great for getting the game along, nope.1. my 3 early posts were all fluff - rvs and 2 game related posts
2. claims my vote on Kai was opportunistic - This depends on your definition obviously, personally i felt like I made a good pressuring vote. It's not like i put a person to L2 or L1 even without any real reasons like he did. THOSE are opportunistic imo
3. claims my vote on kai was reckless - This isn't even a definition thing, this is just flat out wrong
4. Claims I used AtE in post 634 - he will claim this is a difference in definition but I didn't use AtE at all, what is said is the truth and it's part of the reason why I scum read him. he is trying to intentionally misrep and manipulate my actions
5. says I was actively lurking - In no way was I active lurking what so ever
6. says i am throwing defensive fits - Defending myself from lies and misreps is not and never will be considered a Defensive fit.
7. he says I admitted to reading the game - I never said I have read the game, i have never said I am even caught up.
2+3: First impresion perhaps, not if you think more about it.
4: I would say that the last line of 634 was out of order. The whole post is a mix beetween a acusation, that is normal mixed with strong language. Actually that is probably true even for the last line.
5: I think no, the posting is more than you can exspect from posting from VLA.
6: You are coming of as emotianal/angry some times. Not alligment-indicative
7: I am not going there because that post is long and I am allready typing to long.
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Short: In my opinion nothing here is so far from reality that it is necessary a lie and not missinterpretation.
So both of your cases Wh4t and Cedric are unconvincing.
PS: Sorry for the wall...-
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Looks at Wh4t:
You know you are only missing Maki, Kaito, Kokichi and Raskolnikov now.
Okay we got there quickly.
Maki I echo Cedric, can you show that not the ever, but one example, that comes from scum.
Because I had the exact opposite reaction:
Bujaber wrote
Seems to me the scum in this.This is a proven method of psychological manipulation. You are letting other people's minds fill in the blanks to come up with reasons why I might be scum. That way they think they came up with it without feeling like you manipulated them.
Why would a townie player manipulate people into scumreading someone instead of giving reasons for their scumread and convincing people of their case?
Hiraki is scum;
VOTE: hiraki
How can this manipulate someone in believing scum?
Okay paranoia is a think, but if you are town, should people who read you come to that conclusion that you are not scummy?
I am not exactly neutral on Bu this I have to give you.-
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If I wasn't still scumreading you, that would be easier.In post 847, Kiana Kaslana wrote:My pet theory is that I am not getting lynched even though I am a scum-led wagon, for this sole reason: scum are already on my wagon, and thus have no more members to add further to my wagon to fulfill a lynch.
Now, this makes the current Hiraki wagon rather concerning because it implies that it is a town-led wagon.
Which leads me to wonder if I was giving my brass townread a bit too freely and easily, because truth be told I have not been impressed by Hiraki's posts at all.
Now waggonanalysistheory: From my experience it is rare that scum is completly on a waggon, if they can avoid it, exspecially on day 1, with daytalk and 3 members.
Now town-led waggons without scum on it, are not rare, depends on the personality of the scumplayer. Unfortunatly that is no prove that it isn't on town.
Theory end.
About the Hirakiwaggon. It is difficult to read for me. I have not that much of read of Hiraki on one direction or another. I devoloped a slight townread on Brass early on and didn't really have him that much on the raddar. My problem is that I is a case were the reasons are more meta/gutfellings. Good for those who have them, but for me difficult to access if right or wrong.
My other problem is BuJaber: I will make a case later that day, why but without Kiana, I probably would have moved my vote here some time ago.-
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StefanB Mafia Scum
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I have to say I didn't find that much about Bu that was scummy that I though.
More a few highlights:
Could be defend of Archwing, if Archwing was his buddy.I really think arch is jester here. He's just too scummy.
Kokichi: Comes out a bit strange.Koki is policy lynch material. You really have a talent for walking on the fence of scummy/NAI.
First implies that he thinks Kokichi should die even if town, second implies he believes he is scum.What do you think of Kokichi? I find it difficult to ignore scummy things just because people tell me x player always does this.
Okay between that his reaction to Makis 296
Is for me a bit strong.This is the correct interpretation of what happened. Anyone disagreeing is twisting facts or misunderatanding.
His reaction to Kiana I think comes of as not really sincere:
In 453 he states about Kiana:
Doesn't imho not really fit together with his later defence of Kiana system.The mention of daychat in general can easily be faked. Here Kiana sounds like she's getting lost in her own anxiousness to find connections. That also can be faked though admittedly harder. So I wouldn't personally read into it much. But yes if she ignores the correction and doesn't rethink her reads it would look scummy. Do you have reason to think she checked the thread after you corrected her?
The strong townread on Kaito.
After I questioned him, why he thought gamma was silent, when Gamma had a lot of posts
Comes of as quite defensive.More posts does not necessarily mean more content.
In this game most activity occurs while I sleep/ work so naturally my posts are going to be more condensed as I have more stuff to comment on.
At the time of me posting that comment gamma's activity had dropped and he himself knows it but he gave an explanation for it. So I don't know why you're hounding me for that.
And then his vote on Hiraki, which I wrote earlier about.
What I don't find scummy:
Him voting a stronger scumread while there is a waggon on the smaller one. This will be more important when we get nearer to the deadline.
Not important, but huh: "copying from your neighbours" I really looked up, to find the original post, because that phrase kind of implied that Hiraki had a QT.
My problem is I see Bu in a lot of scumpairs that can't be all right, and their is a gutscumfelling that may be driven by paranoia.-
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