Mini 2004 - Birth of the Necromancer - [DERP! - MOD LOSES]

[Tywin Lannister]

Catching up now, but I'm here.

[Tywin Lannister]

This game has already become annoying AF. I'll just preface with that. Moving on... a couple things I've noticed:

1. Nancy freaking out over RVS votes is suspect, yet reads both ways as just being new to mafia, especially on MS. New town or new scum, idk yet, but their entire post count has been defensive AtE, all about THEM (their meta, their emotional instability, claiming to want to self hammer, an appeal to the mod, appeals to other players, regret over joining, etc), and with zero constructive content. Now I understand the emotion part, because I too can get pissed off when railroaded early, but I also assume that scrum are on my wagon when it happens. Even if im THAT emotionally compromised, I still scum hunt as best as I can. I attack back to try to secure future scum lynches after I flip, rather than just whining about it. It at least gives some sort of town benefit, assuming I am town when it happens. ND did not do this until basically coached into it by others. It pings of scum. The fact that the wagon disappeared so quickly is also a ping, yet the reasoning is legitimate.

What's the reason? Well...

2.

Tbh i really dislike turbos. But sometimes it could benefit town to prevent multiple PRs being outed D1.
Idk their alignment so I'm not gonna choose a side here yet. They just seem overly defensive.

This post pings me to high heaven. Standing on the fence, while subtly both approving and disapproving of the ND lynch is scummy. Regardless of what ND flips, this post is maybe the scummiest in the game so far imo. I hate fence sitters for multiple reasons, but mostly because its scum play 101.

3. Both wagons on ND and Evee look too easy, but I'd i have to pick, Evee would get my vote. ND screams lynchbait VI if town, and the weakest link if scum. I'm fine with the wagon moving, but Evee gaining traction from nearly everyone worries me too. That said, the players who pushed and/or wanted to keep pushing ND (like papa zito) are ignoring the evee wagon. Why? Even if they don't see any scum tells from them, pushing for a random wagon instead isn't just counterproductive, but also subtly helps take pressure off an unknown player. ND escaped from pressure due to people just randomly deciding to accept the AtE defense as VI play, and players like Papa Zito complained about that, but now Evee gives nothing during their wagon, and Papa Zito's cool with that?

As it stands, the only real town read I have is 'the worst,' mostly due to the IDGAF stance. Papa Zito is my top scum atm, since ND may just be new town, and their lynch gives no info beyond wifom about Evee. Evee gaining so much traction seems justified to me, although a fast wagon on D1 gives me pause. Papa Zito though... Zito has barely gotten attention beyond a few players (ND/kokichi), and partially it's due to his vote on kokichi.

Imo, Papa Zito complaining about ND wagon losing traction (he wants more pressure info?), yet sidestepping the evee wagon in favor of linking kokichi as a partner is scummy.

Ok, I've rambled enough. Typing on a phone sucks.

VOTE: Papa Zito

Question time:

Nancy Drew: Why were you freaking out and giving up so quickly during the rvs stage? Did you assume you'd be quicklynched before half the game has posted? What were you thinking, and also, why weren't you accusing anyone on your wagon as scum? If you were quicklynched, do you think it would be all town doing so?

Evee: Why were you fence sitting on ND, yet subtly pushing for a PL on them? Who do you actually scum read?

Papa Zito: Why are you deflecting from the Evee wagon while complaining about the ND wagon going off the rails? Do you TR Evee? SR ND? You must right, since you've linked kokichi as their partner on D1. What's your evidence?

[Tywin Lannister]

eevee zito brass

solved before we hit double digits take that america

This might be right actually.

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin why vote zito over eevee?

Mostly because everyone joined on Evee too quickly, so there's either slight chance its a scum push to counter ND wagon, or it's possible low-hanging fruit that can be easier to justify than a possible PL. There's a chance anyway, and most fast wagons on D1 tend to be on town. Zito being hypocritical about NDs wagon losing steam, but ignoring the evee wagon (calling it a 'shiney' distraction) also pings me.

Honestly, I SR both of them, but Zito might give more answers.

[Tywin Lannister]

Is eeved not a good vote to have, brass?

I would not be against lynching her either. Both are pretty scummy, right now, I prefer Papa.

Why though? Piggybacking off my reasoning? Or do you see something more that I'm overlooking?

[Tywin Lannister]

UNVOTE: Papa Zito

for now.



VOTE: Eevee

Why'd you switch to Eevee before getting any answers out of Zito, since you saw something there you didnt like? What's your justification for the Eevee vote, unless its just mindless bandwagining?

You can't demand anwers out of Zito for his vote reasoning, vote him for not giving any, then switch to Eevoo without a reason yourself.

Why are you voting Eevoo?

Why did you switch from Zito?

You both half-assed the entire exchange between you. Nothing productive happened, yet you both pretended to be trying. It almost looks like scum partner distancing, since Zito did it after he knew your wagon was dead, and you solo-voted him for about one hour real-time before switching.

[Tywin Lannister]

Really? A lurking prod dodger is allowed to quickhammer? Nobody thought a quicklynch on D1 page 10 was possibly a bad idea?

[Tywin Lannister]

At least force a claim and last reads next time.

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: Papa Zito

Going back to my original vote. Also, I don't really care if anyone thought my post about disliking Screen being allowed to hammer was fake, because it wasnt. Him hammering on page 10, prior to a claim or even multiple players posting yet, while he's given nothing in terms of content, is a joke. The fact that everyone ignores him even now is a ping. I don't know his meta, but that's not obv town play, so idk why he's being ignored. I'd like to see him actually give content, but nobody else seems to care. I wonder why?

Anyway, Evee obviously blocked the NK, barring scum all being MIA. They'd have been replaced if so though. What follows is pure WIFOM, but I haven't seen anything from Evee saying they TR anyone. Knowing that, I look at what I would do in their shoes. I can say for certain I'd not block for anyone who lynched me under the D1 circumstances, so I'd block elsewhere. I'd also probably not block for a lurker, so that leaves only a few choices. I'm almost positive someone on the Evee train is scum, but not everyone, so that leaves a few options. With that said, it's possible Zito was one of the choices Evee would protect though, but I assume not, considering I SR them.

Wisdom, is your sole SR on me for assuming my end of D1 post was fake? What happens if/when you realize it wasnt? Who do you SR then? Papa Zito? Who else?

[Tywin Lannister]

EeveeLution Army (7): Eddie Cane, Wisdom, the worst, Kokichi Oma, Nancy Drew 39, Sugar Cain, Srceenplay

I don't SR kokichi or Eddie. ND is still up in the air, but unless Evee was a scum- driven counter wagon to theirs, I also don't think theyre scum based on how fast that wagon formed. For me, that leaves Wisdom, the worst, Nero Cain, and Srcreenplay as possible scum. Obv not all though.

That leaves: me, brassherald, ActionDan, Papa Zito, MechaGoomba voting/Not voting elsewhere. Who did Ankarius replace in for? At least one scum are probably in this group.

Until Srceen give a actual content to prove otherwise, they land firmly in my scum pool for the B.S. hammer, plus the fact that nobody cares. I mostly TR wisdom and the worst D1 for the most part, so i leave them there for now. Actiondan didn't strike me as scum, but he's also been ignored. Mechagoomba and brassharald were MIA, and I don't remember seeing either of them all game. Idk which one was replaced, but I'm going to assume they replaced due to the usual: they rolled scum, freaked out about it, and then lurked until replaced. It happens almost every game, so Ankarius is a scum-lean for now.

For me, that leaves Papa Zito, Srceen, Ankarius, and whoever between Mecha/brass as possible scum. The issue with this is only Srceen (of this group) was involved with lynching Evee, so unless scum stayed off it almost entirely (possible with how fast the wagon formed), it's probably not correct. I don't like screen's play though, and being ignored by everyone pings me way too much. Since I don't have meta to look at, I see it at pure scum play for the opportune hammer, knowing nobody would care. Any scum would do that, assuming they knew nobody would SR them for it.

Question now is who would Evee protect? Zito is a distinct possibility, although he just ignored Evee while letting the wagon happen uncontested. If he TR Evee, why didn't he say something? He stuck with ND, then added kokichi as their partner. If ND IS scum, that's possible, but it seems a stretch imo. The question would be who created the Evee counter-wagon in that case, since any scum mates of ND would be looking to do that if possible. Kokichi was 4th on the wagon, while Eddie, Wisdom, and the worst were the first three. ND/kokichi were 4th and 5th, so it's a possibility due to being usual scum slots, but I dont SR either one to really go with it. Kokichi hasn't been svummy at all imo, and ND seemed far too much the new-player VI to consider their AtE full-on scum play for me.

The reason I got pissed about the Evee wagon being hammered so fast is because we are effectively back at D1, with no real info yet. Evee didn't even post reads. Screen didn't let them. That's inexcusable imo, because Srceen never posted reads either. At no point did Srceen say why they SR evee. He didn't care about being wrong, or if he was hammering a PR that gives no good info for doing so. Even if Evee was scum, forcing last reads at least makes them try to give fakes to analyze. Srceen didn't care, but why? Nobody else is even looking at Srceen for their constant prod dodging or the early hammer, but why? If Screen is town, then why wouldn't scum capitalize on throwing shade on him for the hammer? You could assume I'm scum and doing so, yet if/when I flip town, what's that leave? It would mean no scum even care about Srceen, and that's a ping for me. Hell, they've even been defended by others after I called him out at the end of D1, which now has gotten me votes.

Papa Zito/Srceen are effectively my top 2 reads, with a scum lean on Ankarius largely for their predecessors play (so not really important yet). Wisdom is added too, but mostly for omgus reasons at this point, so no real reason to talk about it yet. I will say that the lack of analysis of the D1 wagon or the blocked NK/who Evee would protect pings me for them too. Looks like they're going for whatever seems easy, rather than legitimate scum hunting at any point this game. Since I don't have anything more to it, I'll leave it there for now. Safe to say though that they aren't a firm TR.

[Tywin Lannister]

Random thought here, but I remember thinking the exchanges between ND and Zito seemed fake and half-assed, to the point where Zito complained about ND (then added kokichi as a partner) only after the wagon was dead. ND solo voted Zito for only a few hours real time, or half a page on the thread. ND then switched to Even without reason and forgot Zito existed. To me, it almost looked staged, which I've said previously.

Today, Zito gets a few votes, and ND switched gears to a counter-wagon on ActuonDan. I don't particularly TR him, but I don't have a strong SR on them either. Its possible they are, but part of me also suspects ND could be deflecting for Zito here. ND never legitimately went after Zito, and it looked like a half-assed distancing attempt between them on D1. Neither seriously has looked at the other one, either today or D1. Both are voting elsewhere today, meaning neither really believed in their D1 reads.

If Zito is scum, I will be assuming ND is a partner. If ActionDan is scum, ND will be semi-cleared to me. I don't see any reason for them to bus their partner unprompted at this stage, even if Zito was their scum buddy.

I'm keeping my vote parked where it is.

[Tywin Lannister]

Here it is. Post 215. These were my thoughts on ND sheeping Evee and the seemingly half-added attempt by ND and Zito at distancing. It bugged me then, and it bugs me even more now.

UNVOTE: Papa Zito

for now.



VOTE: Eevee

Why'd you switch to Eevee before getting any answers out of Zito, since you saw something there you didnt like? What's your justification for the Eevee vote, unless its just mindless bandwagining?

You can't demand anwers out of Zito for his vote reasoning, vote him for not giving any, then switch to Eevoo without a reason yourself.

Why are you voting Eevoo?

Why did you switch from Zito?

You both half-assed the entire exchange between you. Nothing productive happened, yet you both pretended to be trying. It almost looks like scum partner distancing, since Zito did it after he knew your wagon was dead, and you solo-voted him for about one hour real-time before switching.

Exchange between ND and Zito:

D1:

Zito votes ND, but only after he sees an unvote (by Eddie) back to L2. Claims he wanted to hammer though.

Zito says he's not done with it yet, but sees everyone else going for the new 'shiny' distraction (Evee), so solo votes kokichi saying they are NDs partner.

ND solo votes Zito and demands answers for his 'almost' hammer on them. Doesn't get them.

ND switched vote to Evee without giving a reason. Says they still SR Zito though.

Evee is lynched. ND is 5th on the wagon. Zito is still solo voting Kokichi.

Keep in mind, Zito has meanwhile deflected all questions asked of him and ignored the Evee wagon, even when asked why (by me). ND never got their answers, and Zito never gave any reads beyond saying ND/Kokichi are scum buddies.

D2:

Wisdom, the worst vote Zito. Both then unvote Zito and move to me.

Kokichi, me, brassharald vote Zito.

Zito votes me. Ignores their two SRs from D1 entirely, which were both based around ND. Never gave a reason why ND stopped being their main SR, let alone Kokichi being their suspected partner.

ND sees Zito wagon, who was their one other SR on D1. Keep in mind, Zito never answered NDs questions, and ND pretended to care about that. ND votes ActionDan instead for the same type of reasons they claimed to SR Zito D1.

ND now says Evee was always their top SR and Zito was only a SR if Evee flipped scum. Zito is now somehow cleared for them? Zito hasn't said anything about ND or Kokichi, let alone why they are voting me.

/end


I don't really buy it tbh. ND could still be just a new player townie whose just all over the place, but the two of them (ND and Zito) both look to me like they half-ass distanced each other on D1, neither really pushing the other or sticking to it. Today, both vote elsewhere, while ND is actively deflecting for Zito by hardpushing a counter-wagon on ActionDan.

Either way, I'm voting Zito independently of them being possible partners, but if Zito flips scum, im going after ND next.

Zito is still the scummiest player in the game to me.

[Tywin Lannister]

I want to see where this goes actually. My wifom about partners is pointless without a scum flip anyway, and more info here is good. I also wonder if scum ND would hard push AD. My assumption that it is to deflect for Zito is pretty narrow-minded and based on scum Zito being 100% true. Even if it were, why AD and not Eddie or someone else? It's easier for scum to join a wagon than to start one.

[Tywin Lannister]

It's rare his brand of intransigence after earning the stink eye from almost everyone in thread (ignoring correlations) comes from scum.

unrelated, @brass, if you can't understand a even a single of those reads my desire to explain any to all of them dissipates completely.

I'm just asking for some analysis.

I can understand and agree with some, but I'm looking for thought processes.

This sentence right here.

Im not ashamed to admit this went over my head. Can you ELI5?

[Tywin Lannister]

ND: Since I'm on a phone, and trying to sort through your wall of mishmashed quotes is a pain in the ass, I'm gonna just use quote marks for your 363 post questions toward me.

"I honestly don’t understand why you read anything I’ve posted as a defense of Zito at all. How can you ignore the fact that he stayed off of what turned out to be a bad wagon?"

1. He was on of your top SRs D1
2. He never answered any of your questions
3. You are voting AD for the exact same reasons you SR Zito 4. Now that he has an actual wagon, you create a counter
5. Zito wasn't on Evee's wagon, but he let it happen
6. Scum don't need to be on a wagon, they just have to let that wagon happen + get hammered to succeed
7. Number 6 is your exact reason for voting AD
8. Hypocrisy

"Do you seriously find it scummy, that it would affect my vote? Now, I obv disagree with his vote on Koichi but it doesn’t make sense to prematurely push a wagon on any ACTIVE poster who wasn’t on it, does it?"

Yes. He never answered your questions, and every reason you've given to vote AD applies exactly to Zito, yet now that Zito has a wagon, you TR him. Also, his sole SRs were you and Kokichi by proxy of you, yet today, he forgot about that. You also convienently forgot about him.

"Dan wasn’t on that wagon but he just suspiciously lurked and said nothing. How is my vote on him, even remotely suspicious?"

This is exactly what Zito did, yet you claim to now TR him for it, and SR AD. It doesn't add up to me.

"You were also opposed to the Eevee wagon, so why is your top sr, an ACTIVE/albeit very frusrating and annoying poster att, who wasn’t even on it?"

I wasn't entirely opposed to it, if I am being 100% real here. I just gave my reservations about it, because it formed too quickly and too easily for me to believe Ever was caught scum. I didnt actually attack everyone for voting Evee though. I just called out Srceen for the quickhammer after the fact. It doesn't exactly clear me.

That said, Zito fits the same description you're giving to AD, so why do you now TR Zito again?

"And if I had any doubts at all, Dan’s responses to me have only increased my confidence in my vote. The fact that he admitted to lurking throughout Eevee’s wagon and is suddenly pushing a wagon on Eddie, is highly sus to me."

So you didn't like Dan's response, even though he gave one, but are okay with Zitos complete deflection/ignoring of your questions toward him? They're almost identical reasons, so why is AD scum and Zito town, now that Zito has a wagon?

Zito didnt admit to lurking, but show me his content on either D1 or D2 that contributed any substance to the game that AD hasn't done. I agree with the weird Eddie push though, and while it's entirely possible AD is scum, I dont see any difference between why you SR AD now and SR Zito then. AD has given more substance at least on D2 than what Zito has in my biased opinion, which gives him the slight leg up. He's also not ignored any questions, which is all Zito has done.

[Tywin Lannister]

What I'm trying to say here is that I fail to see a difference between your reasoning to SR Dan and your reasoning for TR Zito. Both ignored the Evee wagon. Dan lurked, while Zito posted a couple deflections while saying you and kokichi are scum buddies.

In effect, they both avoided the Evee wagon and let it happen, and I don't differentiate a zero-content post from not posting at all. Maybe that's where we disagree though.

You SR Dan for avoiding the Evee wagon, going after Eddie (which I agree is odd), and then not liking his response to you.

You TR Zito for avoiding the Evee wagon, voting me/you/kokichi (which you agree is odd), and then not caring about his non-response to you.

See what I'm getting at? The main difference between the two today is that Zito has an actual wagon, which you claimed you wanted D1. You solo voted Zito on D1, but only for a very small time period before switching to Evee. He voted you, but only after your wagon was dying, and only for a small time period before switching to Kokichi.

Today, both you and Zito convienently forget about each other's SR on the other. Zito votes me, ignoring you and Kokichi without giving a reason to do so. You vote AD, ignoring/TRing Zito, without giving a good reason to do so that wouldn't also apply to Zito to a T.

The only difference here is that Zito now has an actual wagon, which you desperately seem to want to stay off and/or counter. Seeing that counter and both you and Zito staying away from each past after the claimed D1 reads on each other looks fishy to me, especially given his lack of any reason at all, and your lack of reason that differentiates AD and Zito in any significant way.

[Tywin Lannister]

Ugh, my grammar. What has been done cannot be undone.

[Tywin Lannister]

If Zito was town, 100% he wouldve been quicklynched already for his anti-town play, but the fact that there's so much pushback says a lot imo. The kind of pushback going on for Zito definitely wasn't there for Evee. Is it that difficult to see why? Does anyone honestly think scum would block a town mislynch, especially when it's on such an anti-town player?

All pushback in his defense has either been unexplained 'feeling' reads (bad and lazy play imo), or just general deflections/diversions like Srceen telling everyone to make a new wagon for no reason at all. The rest haven't even tried to explain why they TR Zito, or at least stopped SRing him. Others just ignore his slot entirely. Ankarius just said they didn't 'feel anything,' but thats obviously not legitimate reasoning, especially when they already admitted to having not read D1 at all. Its straight to lazy play at best, and a common scum copout at worst. I know where I stand with it though. Actually, the only person that even has even tried is ND, and although I think their logic is faulty, its at least an attempt. That speaks a lot more to me than what others have(nt) done.

I'm still where I was at from the start: Zito, Srceen, Ankarius. I'll add in my discomfort with The Worst sheeping everyone in sight.

Srceen isnt getting lynched, and Zito doesn't look to be either. Only other place ill move is on Ankarius.

[Tywin Lannister]

Sorry, im here. Long weekend. Catching up now.

[Tywin Lannister]

I wasnt ninja replaced yet, right?

[Tywin Lannister]

Ok thanks. Happened elsewhere, and I didn't realize until after I had caught up. Wasted hours I'll post something of substance in a few

[Tywin Lannister]

So i admittedly skimmed, but I noticed only a few things of note:

Zito disappeared, Ankarius and Srceen continue to hard defend everyone i SR, Ankarius/Srceen say Wisdom, The Worst, Sugar are the scum team? Scum likely refuse to let Zito, Ankarius, or Srceen keep a wagon. Brassharald is lurker vote to get that out of the way, but it's less substance than Zito, Ankarius, or Srceen, and he's basically a shitty compromise vote.

I get that scum wont let their buddies get lynched, and there's still a full scum team to prevent it. Even if Zito is not scum, Ankarius and Srceen still are my top SRs besides him. Nothing said has changed that. I don't care about Ankarius and Srceen's sort-of-but-not-really weak SR on each other. Every partner distances. I don't care that both TR him (Ankarius calls Zito their top TR beside ND). Scum Ankarius, who sees Zito not on their team, would have cause to hard defend him. Its decent town cred for whenever he does inevitably get lynched. Scum Ankarius with Scum Zito would also obviously defend Zito, because losing a buddy on what's essentially still D1 (since evee still protects after death) is near game-over for them. Its the worst case scenerio. Any scum buddy of Ankarius would also push elsewhere from them for all the same reasons. Essentially, I'm saying no scum worth their salt would hard-bus a teammate today based on the situation they find themselves in. 100% theyd try to deflect and redirect into someone else, barring just being new to mafia (or bad at it) in general. This is my rock solid belief at least. So yes, Ankarius is damned if they do and damned if they don't, but mostly damned because I hard SR her independently, and her hard defence of Zito (yet without actual reason, unlike ND) is icing on the cake. Their discredit of my case on them, zito, and Srceen (and Ankarius has tried quite hard to discredit and dismiss my cases as being a 'trap') is normal scum 101 play. I'd do it too if I were scum.

So... back to the other elephant in the room: Brass is very null to me. He's probably gonna be lynched as the compromise wagon between town and scum. Scum want anyone but them lynched, and town can't stick a wagon on zito, ankarius, or Srceen. Pretty obvious imo why, but we'll see. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd rather bet on that than go anywhere else. I'm just repeating what I've said many times, but I'm pretty sold with it. IF say, Ankarius flipped town, I'd be more willing to go with their reads that contradict mine, but I won't until that happens. My mind has been made up until I see either one of my reads flip town, or someone outside of them have flipped scum. Maybe Zitos replacement can change my mind here, but Ankarius and Srceen need to go. That's just good game sense imo.

So... despite being gone the last few days, I'm still 100% where I was from the beginning. I'd rather lynch between my original pool than to go elsewhere based off of a push made by my SRs, and a brass lynch gives absolutely zero information regardless of his flip imo. He's a decent wagon, but only because he's null to almost everyone, not because he's obvious scum. Imo, his flip doesn't help much, especially if it's town. We will be back to our preconceived notions from D2, probably down an obvious townie (unless evee keeps protecting even though theyre dead, and I wouldnt pay attention if it were me), same as the Evee lynch did absolutely nothing to help town. It was a great scum lynch, which is why Srceen quickhammered. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why he'd do that over actually demanding a claim. He's gotten almost zero real pressure from hammering, has given very little content, and nobody cares. He's still scum in my eyes.

Zito isn't here and his replacement might be worth waiting for. I don't see any reason to switch gears by sheeping Ankarius on wisdom or the worst. Idc about Eddie at all today. ND looks super town to me for multiple reasons, and pairing ND with Zito isn't likely. Sugar Cain is null, because I haven't engaged with them and probably won't waste my time yet. Brassharald is meh for me, but I'd not be opposed to their lynch. I just don't see any real point to it, since even if they are scum, they'd be the weakest link so far and gives no real info regardless of flip (to me at least). Kokichi isn't in my radar either, and they won't be even if Zito flipped town or ND flipped scum. Theyre solidly town imo. ActionDan might be scum, but I don't have a case. I'm forgetting people probably, but I can't remember who.

Worst case scenario for me is Wisdom, the worst, and someone like Eddie or Sugar flip scum, since I've been giving them a pass all game in search of monsters to slay. That's a possibility, but I won't consider it barring my original reads being proven wrong, and the fact that they can't get a wagon to stick in the way a townie like Evee could just secures my confirmation bias. I want one of them gone before I'll consider switching gears.

VOTE: Ankarius


All of town should join me on this righteous crusade against the murderous infidels. Deus Vult!

[Tywin Lannister]

I dont like how you claim youve made your mind up
People post, reads change

Also Ank is really obvious town

Why?

[Tywin Lannister]

Feel free to lynch me first if town agrees to hang Ankarius tomorrow. I'll take that trade, since scum already lost their NK. It's still a win.

[Tywin Lannister]

Wisdom might be scum with Ankarius actually? He's vote hopped on almost all obvious town, aside from Zito.

Anyway, I'm sitting where I am regardless. Ankarius is scum.

I'm certain because the pushback. She's done nothing townie all game. I fundamentally dislike her reads, playstyle, lack of substance, deflections, hard defences of scummy players, buddying/flip flopping whenever it seems beneficial and opportune, etc. She's scum.

If im wrong, then whatever. Pretend I was NKd rather than an obvious mislynch done by scum like Ankarius. She claims I'm scum now, so that fits her fake reads. Feel free, as long as everyone else takes out Ankarius. You'll get plenty of info when she flips. You might go next wisdom.

[Tywin Lannister]

scum already lost their NK.

Unpack this.

Unpack what? Evee blocked their kill. I'm betting she wouldn't block for people on her wagon, and she certainly wouldn't block for the lurker you replaced for Ankarius. Could've been on someone who didn't vote her. Maybe someone like me perhaps? Maybe Zito. Not you.

100% what happened was Ankarius' replacee rolled scum, got scared, lurked til replaced. Ankarius comes in, pretends to be too drained to be town, does anti-town things, people just don't care, because nobody in this game cares about scummy play it seems. Otherwise, zito, screen, or Ankarius would've already been lynched. Theres literally no other player that's as scummy as those three.

[Tywin Lannister]

If youre town, this is 100% you disliking her playstyle and not actually finding anything scummy with her

Listen to people who have actually played with Ank

Name a single reason brass is scummier than Zito, Ank, or Srceen. I can name many for each of those three. Name one for brass, beyond lurking.

I think you're scum buddies with her now, tbh. Brass push is terrible.

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin might actually be scum this game.

That was my thought too
What do you think it means about brass? First thought was "hes trying to save his buddy by calling it a lurker lynch" but this feels too obvious

This is how I feel about you trying to save Ank, an unconfirmed, terribly scummy player on Day 2. Yeah, you're too obvious.

[Tywin Lannister]

Hey Tywin, do you have a case?

What's your case on brass?

Lynching a lurker on D2 means you should be lynched first, since you replaced for one D1.

I gave my case. You have none on brass. He's just the easy lynchbait. The most you can say is he is a lurker, yet so was the person you replaced. Guess that means you gots to go by your own reasoning. Deus Vult.

[Tywin Lannister]

Ank lets stay on brass

Lol.
Wisdom: “ whoa whoa whoa, hold up I didn’t think you’re going to actually vote him, calm the fuck down. I was just distancing.”

ew

He's got a point. One which you can't deny.

[Tywin Lannister]

tbh Im starting to think Tywin is just Yume levels of bad

Has anyone played with Tywin before

You're right. I misred it. Thanks for personally insulting me, because I don't trust you in a Mafia game.

Did anyone ever teach you that toxicity is a bad thing? Maybe don't insult people in some shitty, misguided ego trip. Too many of you exist on this site, which has made many leave. I was one of them for a while. I forgot why I left, but I remember now. Thanks for that.

[Tywin Lannister]

Hey Tywin, do you have a case?

What's your case on brass?

Lynching a lurker on D2 means you should be lynched first, since you replaced for one D1.

I gave my case. You have none on brass. He's just the easy lynchbait. The most you can say is he is a lurker, yet so was the person you replaced. Guess that means you gots to go by your own reasoning. Deus Vult.

The 'case' you gave on me in your catchup can be simplified to scumreading me because I defended Zito when he was the primary wagon of the day. You also have yet to answer my questions, which involves me asking why my followup play would make sense if I'm scum and Zito's town.

And this?

I'm certain because the pushback. She's done nothing townie all game. I fundamentally dislike her reads, playstyle, lack of substance, deflections, hard defences of scummy players, buddying/flip flopping whenever it seems beneficial and opportune, etc. She's scum.

This is buzzwords and smoke, not a case.

Spoiler:

Feel free to lynch me first if town agrees to hang Ankarius tomorrow. I'll take that trade, since scum already lost their NK. It's still a win.

Wisdom might be scum with Ankarius actually? He's vote hopped on almost all obvious town, aside from Zito.

Anyway, I'm sitting where I am regardless. Ankarius is scum.

I'm certain because the pushback. She's done nothing townie all game. I fundamentally dislike her reads, playstyle, lack of substance, deflections, hard defences of scummy players, buddying/flip flopping whenever it seems beneficial and opportune, etc. She's scum.

If im wrong, then whatever. Pretend I was NKd rather than an obvious mislynch done by scum like Ankarius. She claims I'm scum now, so that fits her fake reads. Feel free, as long as everyone else takes out Ankarius. You'll get plenty of info when she flips. You might go next wisdom.

scum already lost their NK.

Unpack this.

Unpack what? Evee blocked their kill. I'm betting she wouldn't block for people on her wagon, and she certainly wouldn't block for the lurker you replaced for Ankarius. Could've been on someone who didn't vote her. Maybe someone like me perhaps? Maybe Zito. Not you.

100% what happened was Ankarius' replacee rolled scum, got scared, lurked til replaced. Ankarius comes in, pretends to be too drained to be town, does anti-town things, people just don't care, because nobody in this game cares about scummy play it seems. Otherwise, zito, screen, or Ankarius would've already been lynched. Theres literally no other player that's as scummy as those three.

If youre town, this is 100% you disliking her playstyle and not actually finding anything scummy with her

Listen to people who have actually played with Ank

Name a single reason brass is scummier than Zito, Ank, or Srceen. I can name many for each of those three. Name one for brass, beyond lurking.

I think you're scum buddies with her now, tbh. Brass push is terrible.

Tywin might actually be scum this game.

That was my thought too
What do you think it means about brass? First thought was "hes trying to save his buddy by calling it a lurker lynch" but this feels too obvious

This is how I feel about you trying to save Ank, an unconfirmed, terribly scummy player on Day 2. Yeah, you're too obvious.

Hey Tywin, do you have a case?

What's your case on brass?

Lynching a lurker on D2 means you should be lynched first, since you replaced for one D1.

I gave my case. You have none on brass. He's just the easy lynchbait. The most you can say is he is a lurker, yet so was the person you replaced. Guess that means you gots to go by your own reasoning. Deus Vult.

All these posts are you going on and on about how scummy I am but not actually substantiating them. You're grandstanding because you don't actually have a case. You have a point that I could be defending Zito if we're both scum and my predecessor replacing out without making a single post here, which is very weak by itself.

But apparently I'm scum for a lot more than that, despite your inability to explain it.

This is scum. Lynch this.

Literally nothing you've written matters. My case doesn't have to be good to make Brass' case any better. You have NOT given a case on him, and I've asked three times now. You keep deflecting back on my case towards you, but you cannot do anything with it besides try to discredit it with your own buzzwords. Regardless, your case on brass does not exist. You vote him because he lurks, yet you replaced a lurker, therefore I can vote you for the exact same reasoning. Everything else is sugar on top of my own read. I don't have to convince YOU that you're scum. I just have to keep voting you until I'm inevitably mislynched or NK'd, and then you'll have to contend with others.

[Tywin Lannister]

Is brass dead yet? I'm kinda checked out right now, but I scrolled the pages i wasn't here for. Harmless zombie voted me? Isn't harmless zombie a scum voter? Or is it dead town (aka Evee)? What exactly do they even do?

Anyway, I don't think brass is scum, because he's been piled on by people I SR, and i can't see how Wisdom, among others, TR her blind. Maybe it isn't blind then, but then there's no conf on brass in that case. I haven't even seen a case. As far as I'm aware of, it's just him being a lurker. While I already said previously that he's not a terrible policy lynch in a deadlock situation, I also thought (Still do) that he'd be the one both town and scum would compromise on to get a mislynch going. At least I'm pretty sure I said that. He'd be the one I would pick as scum, I'd i knew I had no good choices elsewhere. I don't think he's even around to complain, but whatever. If it goes to deadline, I'll vote him, but until someone gives an actual case that isn't just 'lurker,' I see no reason to move off of Ankarius' slot. Ignoring everything else said about her, since I apparently didn't give a good enough case, her slot also lurked before being replaced. A scum lurker is more likely to lurk D1 in my view than D2, mainly because those players don't enjoy that role in the first place. Too much pressure. Why would they wait til today to lurk and be replaced or lynched? It just makes more sense to do it on D1 imo, but I understand why nobody else would follow that reasoning.

That all said, I don't have a TR on brass either aside from confirmation bias of Ank or Zito being their partner.

After Eddie's latest vote, I'd be willing to move to him too. I've just ignored him all game as it is, and haven't done an iso, but I haven't seen him do anything notable enough to remember. He's an active lurker, rather than completely MIA. I'd not be surprised at all if he were scum here, regardless of possible partnership. I'm pretty sure nearly every one has ignored Eddie beyond maybe Ank?

So can someone explain their case on Eddie? Wisdom/Ank? You both have pushed it the hardest, while every one else has mostly sheeped it. It's notable that Srceen doesn't want in on it, at least to me.

Who did havingfitz replace in for btw? I didnt realize I was this far behind. Is it for Zito?

Edit: oh, I have a wagon too lol. Eddie and Srceen and the zombie. I'm sure that's a town push /s

[Tywin Lannister]

EBWOP: explain case on Brass* although feel free with Eddie too

[Tywin Lannister]

So scum control the zombie. Zombie vote is on me. I'm the leading wagon. Ank moved to me after.

So ladies and gents, this means either I'm obvious town and Ank is obviously not, or im voting myself as a zombie for some weird WIFOM purpose that won't work and will be vindicated after my flip regardless.

Yeah, I'm still with Srceen, and Ank for sure. I'll be lynched today, and I'm betting I was the one who Evee protected last night, but you guys will have to figure that out after I'm gone. Good thing I'm checked out already, or I'd be pretty upset with how badly I see town performing here. Oh well

[Tywin Lannister]

Town, just do me one single favor.

After I'm lynched, and thus two very bad misslynched occurred in a row, please look at who were on the wagons more closely. There's been zero analysis, and it's not good. Try it after please.

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin, you understand that there was success in making people wary of the brass wagon via the zombie vote, right?

You left his wagon to jump back on me after his vote. You're obv scum imo, and even though I can't convince anyone of that, you'll hopefully have to deal with some shit after I'm gone. If not, then I'll just consider it an unavoidable loss and ignore it. These games happen.

Also, I hope everyone stops listening to your constant bullshit discrediting gameplay and starts waking up. Seriously, you're like a scum 101 playbook. Discredit, deflect, ignore questions entirely or ask questions back as an answer, give vague 'feeling' reads on everyone to avoid having to actually answer for them with facts, etc, etc. The list goes on. I cant see how anyone doesn't notice it beyond me, but the one person who did is now voting me too.

I'll be interested to see if any townies actually wake up and smell the bullshit by Day 3. One can hope anyway. You can't fool me though Ank. Youre not town, and I'll say it all day until I'm lynched. Someone will be bound to see it eventually.

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin just AtE my appetite away.

Nice discredit scum. Can't have anyone say you and your partner are scum and be believed.

[Tywin Lannister]

Ank, Srceen, Eddie/Zito is my final list. I'm calling it for post game at least.

[Tywin Lannister]

Town, just do me one single favor.

After I'm lynched, and thus two very bad misslynched occurred in a row, please look at who were on the wagons more closely. There's been zero analysis, and it's not good. Try it after please.

please feel welcome to analyse it
or your own wagon

Really? Can't you do that?

Analysis: Screen votes me without a reason. Eddie says he doesnt know what hes doing, but is sheeping Screen and votes me. Harmless Zombie votes me. Ankarius votes me. ND joined somewhere in there due to Ankarius hard pushing me.

What reason have I been voted? None. What reason has brass been votes? None. What reason has Evee been voted? None. What town players even care? None.

Not much to analyze when there's no case. The only thing Ank or Srceen have done is discredit all my posts with insults, and backhanded jabs, meant to compromise me emotionally and to make town see me as a worthless/insignificant person who is just flailing, rather than someone with serious reads on players he's been calling out since Day 1. Everything Ank has done is discredit and attack with insults and other contrived daggers, yet not a single shred of actual scumhunting has gone on. No actual facts. Nothing to actually call bullshit on beyond personal attackslike claiming I don't read.

The problem here is that it's a normal tactic for scum in every single game. It's not legitimate scum hunting. There are no facts in their case. There is nothing to it beyond attacks to belittle the town player until the rest stop taking them seriously. It happens in EVERY single game on MS, yet nobody seems to pick up on it. Smh

Anyway, I said my peace. I'm Vanilla Town, so lynch away.

[Tywin Lannister]

Harmless zombie is scum. It's a scum voter. Mod confirmed it. Harmless zombie is lynching me.

How can anyone be this blind? It's just beyond me. I seriously don't get itm. Even Ank is flailing in an attempt to twist what the mod said with multiple interpretations, but the only significant interpretation worth any credence is that it's an extra scum vote. The mod literally confirmed that in the thread. Ank voted me after Harmless Zombie did, and shes pushing hard to make it seem harmless zombie is somehoe not a scum vote.

Let that sink in. I forgive everyone for being derpy though. I miss things too, but I didn't miss this one. I'll still be lynched with probably 2 or 3 scum on my wagon PLUS a harmless zombie vote, but I want everyone to recognize what's going on after the fact.

[Tywin Lannister]

Notes on Necromancy Mechanics

1. There is at most one zombie at any given time. It turns to dust at the end of the day.
   
2. The zombie is represented by the alt account, Harmless Zombie. It is controllable both directly (via a login) and indirectly (via PM) by the mafia.
   
3. The zombie may only post naked votes.
   
4. Zombies will not be identifiable as any dead player.
   
5. Each dead player can only be reanimated once.

Before I say anything else, all those who claimed I was wrong about saying the mod confirmed the Harmless Zombie was and always will be a scum vote, please actually read this time


]The zombie is represented by the alt account, Harmless Zombie. It is controllable both directly (via a login) and indirectly (via PM) by the mafia.

Read the last 3 words. BY THE MAFIA.

So, how is it possible to interpret it any other way? Only scum , doing it on purpose, or town who dont read anything, would claim the zombie is not a scum vote. The mod confirmed it in the second post of the game. It is both controlled directly via login, and indirectly via PM, BY THE MAFIA.

[Tywin Lannister]

Harmless zombie is scum. It's a scum voter. Mod confirmed it. Harmless zombie is lynching me.

How can anyone be this blind? It's just beyond me. I seriously don't get itm. Even Ank is flailing in an attempt to twist what the mod said with multiple interpretations, but the only significant interpretation worth any credence is that it's an extra scum vote. The mod literally confirmed that in the thread. Ank voted me after Harmless Zombie did, and shes pushing hard to make it seem harmless zombie is somehoe not a scum vote.

Let that sink in. I forgive everyone for being derpy though. I miss things too, but I didn't miss this one. I'll still be lynched with probably 2 or 3 scum on my wagon PLUS a harmless zombie vote, but I want everyone to recognize what's going on after the fact.

how is the anonymous zombie voter modconfirmed as scum? cos that isn't what he said

This is scum. You guys are right

[Tywin Lannister]

Official Vote Count 2-13

Tywin Lannister

(3): Srceenplay, Eddie Cane, Harmless Zombie

pirate mollie

(3): Wisdom, Nancy Drew 39, Kokichi Oma

Ankamius

(2): Tywin Lannister, the worst

havingfitz

(1): pirate mollie

Eddie Cane

(1): ActionDan

Sugar Cain

(1): Sugar Cain

Kokichi Oma

(1): havingfitz

Not Voting

(1): Ankamius

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-05-09 18:15:00)

Previous Vote Count

VOTE: Tywin Lannister

Brass/Mollie, Ank scum + 3rd

VOTE: Pirate Mollie

[Tywin Lannister]

thanks for your contribution.

That is for yours. Your toxicity is such an appreciated thing. Maybe go attack Mollie with more personal insults some more? That would be really helpful I'm sure.