Mini Theme 2007: Police Academy 1 - Game Over

[Gorkington]

we'll vig you porkens

counterclaiming vig

vote: stop getting banned

[Gorkington]

whats the opposite of combined

[Gorkington]

no quicklynch plz, the _________ scumhunting power of 21 people should be more than enough to win this game

lemme know what should go in here

[Gorkington]

Claim MIller

counterclaiming miller

vote: stop getting banned

[Gorkington]

can two more of your heads vote you?

[Gorkington]

if you lynch stop being banned
you can outpost them

[Gorkington]

i voted twice though, did they not both count?

[Gorkington]

I haven’t read role pm yet

does every head on the hydra have to confirm?

[Gorkington]

i mean, real talk, i dont really understand how a hydra like this can possibly work in the context of mafia.
i cant hold any specific head accountable for any specific post and if i ask a question, someone else is probably just going to answer it.
theres literally no accountability with a hydra this big.
:/

[Gorkington]

Evidently not. Plus some jack ass deleted it. Plus some jackass keeps rotating time post format and skin

@smith

, can you please enforce that every head confirm?
(:

p-edit: i mean, its different when theres that many heads and no one is signing?

[Gorkington]

please put votes on me, and not in me, please and thanks
(:

[Gorkington]

@smith

, please warn the stop getting banned hydra
(:

[Gorkington]

what exactly is the tactical advantage that you think i was going for?

[Gorkington]

i also dont think asking that your hydra commits to having its heads answer questions directed at posts they specifically made is an unreasonable request/making a big deal out of nothing?

p-edit: you really think that either question is me trying to get you lynched?

[Gorkington]

i feel like it should be really obvious why all of the heads in a hydra that big have to confirm
i dont get how you get from "this needs to happen in order for the hydra to be playing the game properly" to "GORK IS TRYING TO GET US IN TROUBLE WITH THE MOD"?

[Gorkington]

im also not really annoyed, so comparing me to cheeky is kind of not applicable
(:

weeeeeeeeeeeee

vote: porkens

[Gorkington]

ooo nice lamist thats a good one.
got any other nifty buzzwords for me?

[Gorkington]

im voting porkens, does that give you a clue?

[Gorkington]

lol
what vote would i be making right now that you wouldnt just be calling me scum?

[Gorkington]

tn, you read my theory post yet?

The part about Creature being a borderline trust tell, or how Townhunting is preferable to scumhunting, or how everyone is going to alignment check on us n1 and flip us d2? Because I agree with all of the above. The only thing making this play suboptimal is that it would, in fact, be best to lynch us D1 considering how some of the other heads are treating this as an excuse to completely disregard the rules, the warning I got for cussing notwithstanding

(couldn't have reasonably expected that to be against the rules)

UNVOTE:

~tn5421

why did you unvote me here?

[Gorkington]

How do you jump on fork here?

why was her vote worse than any other vote?

i think porkens is

town

can you give me some words on this?

[Gorkington]

Mulch is town.

this seems premature!

Mulch is town. Agreed?

this seems premature!

have you not played with scumMulch before?

[Gorkington]

i can tell you what i think about gork

[Gorkington]

i think for n1 it would make the most sense to stack on one universally townread player.
if we do stacks on two players i think theres a lot more room for scum to muddle with the results via fakeclaiming/its more likely that we might accidentally have scum in the players that we're targetting/its more likely that scum will be willing to shoot one of the two targets because theres less at stake in terms of amount of information given away with the nightkill

@stop being banned

, has creature posted at all yet?

p-edit: i cant tell you what i think about gork?

[Gorkington]

Ok, as long as its you or ETL and we lynch the hydra, I don't really care. Can't get much done with the spam. I think we have enough to split into two groups but I don't think it's a discussion that can be had.

are you townreading both of us?
it reads like you were saying you wanted to sort etl using the nightchecks, but youre also referring to it as a doctor via disincentivizing scum from shooting the target?
can you make it clear why you want etl and i specifically as the options here?

[Gorkington]

@mulch

, if you were to be in a 22 person hydra where you rolled scum, and people were asking you to come up with a general game plan for the hydra, what would you be suggesting people do on D1?

Yeah the hydra is quite transparently town

can you pull me the specific posts from the stop being banned again hydra that you feel are unlikely to come from scum?

[Gorkington]

im not really all that sure why you think youre going to be able to read a hydra that big on merit of a player that we dont even know is or isnt posting because nobody is signing?

have you not played with scumMulch before?

:V

@mulch

@mulch

, if you were to be in a 22 person hydra where you rolled scum, and people were asking you to come up with a general game plan for the hydra, what would you be suggesting people do on D1?

Yeah the hydra is quite transparently town

can you pull me the specific posts from the stop being banned again hydra that you feel are unlikely to come from scum?

:V

[Gorkington]

I HAVE read a shitton of Mulch games. I believe specific posts to not come from Mulch scum. Mulch is a strong townread.

what kind of sample size are we talking about and what kind of a track record do you have to back this up?

PEdit: See: your post 338, which asks for accountability in a way where they either have to come forward and my original post about not policy lynching the hydra where I demand that Creature distinguish his posts somehow. If that literally becomes make a list of posts made by creature every few days, so be it. I assume that some aspect of the Creature can be read by anyone bit will make it obvious that it is actually Creature, or at least that's what I gathered from Team Mafia and the dead thread talking about how Creature just needed to spam Archwing town.

and whats your plan if they just refuse to say which posts are creature's?

ill wait for her answer.

given that she replaced out can you just elaborate?

You

and ETL are brilliant players as either alignment.

ahaha

[Gorkington]

hey sick idea:
how about instead of being shitty to people, we dont be shitty to people?

[Gorkington]

im sad a bunch of people got fancy pants reasoning for being scum, but im not worthy in punlords eyes. its okay. its definitely fine.

pedit: i have a bunch of posts on page 12 though. ):

[Gorkington]

Titus/Mulch scumteam? Titus/Mulch scumteam. Probably.

????
why?

[Gorkington]

is there actual math/hard work done on whether targetting someone and lynching them is optimal or is this just "what people have done so i guess we should do it too i guess"?
im just not really sure i understand the ways that scum can really fuck with us targetting a universal townread unless you think we collectively cant sort a single person in the game correctly as town? or am i missing some aspect of why we shouldnt be doing that?

@pun

, can you actually walk through why im your #2 scumread? can you also talk about why youre just dropping reasoning for a few of your reads and not even your strongest ones?

[Gorkington]

its possible that titus and ginngie both got rolepms this game

[Gorkington]

@jingle

, before this game, was mulch aware that you had some kind of tell on him?

Ok let's do some business. Bells, you town or not cause your behavior is scummy

not really sure what the point of this question is.
why is jingle scum?

I should restate
I’m not very confident

Those are just my top 2 scumreads aorn

hello my name is mulch and im not confident right now!
but im also doing nothing to change that!
:V
:V
:v

[Gorkington]

apparently tituswagon is a thing because

i)

And is it time for grand sweeping statements about relationships now?

Titus and ETL are not both scum.

Pun and ETL are not both scum.

Roughly 80% that one of the three is, though.

ii) 484
iii) sheeping jingle
iv) a lack of internal logic behind her reads to understand where they came from

@jingle

, my first big question is
why is 80% likelihood for 1 of 3 players a good metric for scumreading someone?
is that not like.. 5% higher than random chance?
or am i just not understanding your point?

second big question is
why titus over anyone else in that pile? i dont really understand why from your ISO.

@punreader

,
i want you to give me a pair of towngames/scumgames to directly reference this game against.
and if its not particularly convincing then im probably going to roast you over an open fire.
(:

kind of doesnt really feel like theres much in terms of a substantive push on titus and nobody on the wagon is really pushing a rhetoric that indicates that theyre even particularly confident about it?
if im missing something, would love for someone to fill me in.

=================================

mostly nontitus-related things

=================================

mulchslot is maybe scum.
some of punreader's posts are pinging me but the sheer volume of content theyre unloading the game is kind of hard to imagine coming from scum?
porkens is an enigma and i dont really remember why i felt they were scummy anymore.

i really hope schadd starts posting again

etl's probably my strongest townread atm followed closely by sgba.
would love some more creature posts to solidify the read, but tn's posts are a nice consolation prize.

saw etl's thing about punreader and it mostly made my head hurt.

im aiming to dive titus's ISO [and can maybe try to pick apart etl's punreader posts] sometime tomorrow if i have time after work/packing/board games.
probably cant devote too much time to this game in the near future [work is super fucked atm and honestly should be working right now but im dumb :') ]

also if theres some big post summarizing what the current game plan is night action-wise itd be swell if someone could link it at my face.

[Gorkington]

vote: draynth

[Gorkington]

i really wouldnt recommend trying to fake a push on me if you are scum, just so you know draynth.
i have a habit of making it really awful for scum when they do.
(:

Very initial impressions (Based on skimming through all 27 pages at 1am) are as follows:

i want more words on these.
and why did you wait until now to vote if you already had initial impressions on people?

[Gorkington]

but schadd town leans your slot and I dont strongly disagree so I'd rather not.

can you talk through the reasoning for why you replaced in?
and why schadd is posting thoughts through you rather than just saying them in the game?

[Gorkington]

also, can you talk about why you were townleaning mulch's entrance?

[Gorkington]

okay draynth lets play a game its called you fill in the blank for me
sound good?

okay.

heres your prompt:
"i think that gorkington is scum because __________________"

putting thirty seconds on the clock now.
go!

[Gorkington]

if i dont have a solid grasp of the game, i ask questions to try and ground myself. is something i do in literally almost every game i play in
and i would literally be shocked if i hadnt been posting questions of the same kind of nature in C9++ so im kind of skeptical that you would have no idea what my normal townplay looks like?

[Gorkington]

i also think its a super lame potshot to imply that 1/3rd of my posts have been complaining about the hydra

[Gorkington]

if youre also caught up [albeit via skimming] im pretty sure you would have seen my last big catch-up post which definitely does not fall under any of your categories?
did you just miss that post or what?

[Gorkington]

i mean it kind of feels like youre saying that a third and a third and a third of my posts are hydra complaining, setup spec and questions, which felt like a ridiculous assessment of my play?

like, with the questions im trying to get to a place where i can parse people based on things that arent fully making sense to me and thats where the majority of my play has been this game.
like, if i took two posts out of someone's ISO who has 30+ posts and said "this person is doing X and asking questions and thats it", it would be a pretty inaccurate assessment of their play given that its just a pair of posts out of a ton of others. unless you find the hydra complaining scummy, i dont really see why you felt the need to point it out specifically as if it were something i were overly focused on in general?

Why would you assume I'd know what your towngame looks like if I didn't even play in that game? It was also over a year ago.

yeah fair enough.
i usually follow my games pretty closely, but its probably not reasonable to think that the average person is going to read a game that they arent actually playing in :')

[Gorkington]

i probably need to throw more time at this game.

i convinced myself last night that mulch's posting was probably scum trying too hard to seem thoughtful but i kind of dont really think scumDraynth backs up and offers to metadive me when it would be easier to just dig his heels in?
eh.

[Gorkington]

is there a reason youre just completely ignoring the paragraph that came immediately after that one?

[Gorkington]

i said that it was a weird thing to prop up as though it were a significant portion of my play.
if i had LITERALLY said "YOU ARE SAYING THIS IS 1/3RD OF MY PLAN" i would get your point but i said that he was phrasing in a way that felt like he was trying to suggest that i was focusing on it as much as the others in a way to pin me as scummy that felt like a bad assessment of my play to that point?

i feel like you either didnt read what i said or youre misrepping what i was saying to make what i was saying seem way more ridiculous than it actually was?

[Gorkington]

i really have no idea what youre trying to say in any of your last posts if youre townreading me?

[Gorkington]

i acknowledge that you said words to me that i have no further interest in saying words about

[Gorkington]

@eddie

, i have a bunch of okay townleans and a big pile of mehreads.
and im not really running with enough time/energy to seriously try to parse people in this game via metadives/isodives.

im down to just wagon the shit out of people and hopefully get a better grasp on the gamestate by doing so!

vote: nosferatu

porkens and a50 are also okay alternatives on this front!
[titus and punreader are also in the mehpile but i dont think wagoning them will make them easier to read]

[Gorkington]

as an added bonus for nos being maybe scum, i have no idea what he was trying to do with poking me about draynth.
him defending the questions when i got annoyed was to just say that he was that [he was townreading me so why would scumhim do that?] which is a really weird response and makes the questions seem like pointless busywork

[Gorkington]

actually im being dumb instead of cleaning like i should be
and nos has like literally 0 scumhunting in his ISO and has sticky-ass-reads

lets fucking kill this guy

[Gorkington]

Gork seems active, but is a nonpresence in the thread. Given that most of my interaction with him is sitechat/modding/him telling me that he's a bad player, I'm willing to trust your gut there for now.

i feel like i havent really been that active?
[also feel like it would be kind of out of character for me to knock anything but my scumgame >.>]

hate to interrupt the walk down memory lane, but can we get some momentum going here on nos?
i feel like the only wagons that have happened this game have been a policy wagon on sgba and a wagon on titus that i never saw any reasoning for.

i want everyone to either pull up nos's ISO and articulate a hard stance on him or sheep me and help with wagoning him.
lets fucking go.

p-edit:

I strongly feel porkens to be town. convince me why i'm wrong...

its more that i dont have a townread on them and have no idea how to read them from their posting?
would probably be more productive for you to convince me why porkens is town?

[Gorkington]

ginngie whats your experience with titus?
just real folk blues?

[Gorkington]

4: KidAm: Of the players in the game, this Kid is who I Am least familiar with. So the punread there is with the caveat I could be simply unfamiliar with them. Still, I wasn't fond of their entrance.

I do admit my Nosferatu read is to some extent reliant on Nos leeching off of KidAm's towncred

how exactly does kid go from a punread due to a lack of experience with him to a copperread when he literally had only two posts?

[Gorkington]

im still waiting for the meta on titus btw punreader.
(:

[Gorkington]

Hi Etl

[Gorkington]

hows your day going?

[Gorkington]

@etl, ill put it in my queue of things to read up on this weekend.

No

Like

Half my games on MS

Which is a log

can you talk about how you would distinguish townTitus from scumTitus if you have that much experience with her?

[Gorkington]

I also told you exactly what I was doing. Idk what more you want from me at that point. I thought you were making a dumb push. It's just that simple.

i mean it kind of feels like youre saying that a third and a third and a third of my posts are hydra complaining, setup spec and questions, which felt like a ridiculous assessment of my play?

it kind of feels ridiculous that you decided to, completely unprompted, believe that he actually evenly distributed all of your posts across 3 categories.

i really dont understand why you felt like it was worth making a post to do that?
like, youre not even trying to say something along the lines of "hey man youre maybe pushing something that isnt great right now, maybe you should try something else?"
its literally reads like "lol this thought is stupid" and when i asked why you arent trying to parse anything else in the post which elaborates on why i felt like that:
ie - why is draynth even pointing out something like that in a way that suggests its a big portion of my posting if its literally only two posts from a much bigger collective of posts,

you basically shrugged me off and said it was just more words about the same thing which means youre not trying at all to parse what im saying because youre either lazy or scum who doesnt care.
if youre town, maybe you could actually give a shit about trying to play the game instead of just shitting on people that youre apparently townreading for basically no reason?

you wanna talk? what happened to roasting people over an open flame? this is just like... idk not that. you just threw a boilerplate at me cause you didn't understand something and idk how to deal with that.

i feel like this is a garbage assessment of my recent posting.
i) i voted you because i felt like your question on me was weird/i didnt have any significant scumreads at the time and i literally said "WE SHOULD WAGON PEOPLE TO PARSE PEOPLE BECAUSE I DONT HAVE SCUMREADS RIGHT NOW LETS GO".
ii) i then ISOdived you really quickly at work during my break and felt like there was no scumhunting in your ISO.
am i wrong?
or no?
because i feel like the only serious questioning youve done this game has been of a townread and i frankly dont understand at all how you can read that progression and think "gork is trying to kill me because he misunderstands me ):".

[Gorkington]

who is scum nos.

[Gorkington]

just like
can you say words
that arent you trying to troll me
and are actually playing the game?

[Gorkington]

it kind of feels ridiculous that you decided to, completely unprompted, believe that he actually evenly distributed all of your posts across 3 categories.

you really thought that i would read this and think "huh well yes maybe i should just reconsider".
this is literally shit i say to people i scumread.
i literally called draynth's thought there ridiculous because i THOUGHT he was scum at the time.
you say something like that because you think that its easier to imagine someone as scum manipulating an argument than being ridiculous.

doing the same thing to someone you townread basically means that youre saying that theyre a dumbass.
and adding in umprompted just makes it seem like youre slinging shit at me as if im scummy.
like.
literally such fucking awful wording for accomplishing what youre implying you were trying to accomplish.

p-edit: okay i actually dont really care about who youre scumreading.
the point was to try to get you to explain any of your reads.
literally any of them.
because i havent seen reasoning for any of your reads in your ISO.
is that unclear?
from me saying that i havent seen scumhunting from you?

pp-edit: its apparently because i felt like you were scum tripping over yourself to walk back a question you never would have made to a townread at the time.
and i honestly have no idea anymore.

[Gorkington]

i) i get that but you immediately followed that up with "nvm lets kill him" so I don't really understand your point here

came after ISOdiving you which strengthened the read?
and i like rhetoric?
i know this isnt your first time playing with me.

ii) how could you isodive me and then ask me who i thought was scum? what did you get from that? just a "no scumhunting and garbage reads?" how'd you even judge the quality of the reads and not know what they are? what's the point of even asking?

like im not even talking about "misunderstanding me" as a person or anything like that. you didnt understand why i was questioning you and you voted me
idk how we can have so many misunderstandings about misunderstandings

garbage reads is not something ive said?
i asked while trying to imply that i want reasoning.
i probably could have explicitly asked.
but like
im asking because if youre town
telling me who you think is scum and why is literally the best way i can parse you.
just saying "oh i think this person is scum" or naked voting or fucking with me is doing almost nothing to my read on you [and is honestly really frustrating?].

[Gorkington]

It's only fruitless because everyone is being stubborn

im pretty sure theyve only posted like 2 times in the last 10 pages.
can you please give some reads on some other players?

[Gorkington]

but i dont think that ridiculing something is scum-exclusive

wasnt really the point of what made me think you were scum,
but its kind of a moot point now because im feel less confident about it at this point
so probably not worth dwelling on it.

can i just get an elaboration on why you think/thought etl and punreader are scum?

[Gorkington]

Titus is a little town, eh.

can i get an update on this read?
and if youre still townleaning her, can you talk about why this game isnt a higher priority for you given that shes been sitting at l-2 for a while now?

She’d be involved and have actual reasoning

even if the moon logic

It would be actually mafia related

can you link me a scumgame youve played with her where you feel like she played similarly to here?

[Gorkington]

ok but you realize that once you've strengthened the read, the "this wagon is to get a scum read" line kind of loses its meaning and now you're just wagoning a scum read.
i say "you realize" but obviously you don't otherwise we wouldn't be on this topic right now. this is kind of a moot point anyway. onward ho!

okay but you said "why are you saying "KILL HIM" if you were wagoning me to sort me?" and i was explaining that the two statements came at separate times when i had differing levels of confidence to some degree?

you are completely correct here, you never said i had garbage reads, you used the term "sticky-ass-reads". being 100% honest here, I don't use, read, or hear that phrase on a daily basis, so I assumed its meaning, although tbf im not exactly sure what else it could mean, feel free to lemme know.

sticky reads basically just means that they havent been changing.

and im just going to ignore the dickish parts.
weeeeeeee

[Gorkington]

vote: punreader

okay lets see if this one works!

p-edit: i mean, the spacing looked like it was mocking the way i post things?

[Gorkington]

Not Voting (3)PenguinPower , Jingle ,

Porkens

both of you need to start using your votes and taking more meaningful stances.
pretty not okay to be sitting on a no vote right now.

VOTE: eddie

It's omgus

okay if youre going to be doing this right now
you should be hardcasing eddie.
theres three days left until deadline.
there should be way more of a sense of urgency here.

@a50

, hbd im condensing your draynthpoints for you because the wallpost makes it harder to digest them.

i) he never followed up on a question when a50 didnt answer it
ii) he questioned someone else's scumread on someone he was also scumreading
iii) he voted someone in the middle of his readlist

@draynth

, want to see you respond to this.

IMPORTANT:

Scum!Titus defends her scum partners by necessity. Scum!Titus will always find a way to launch a counter wagon to one on herself or on a buddy of hers.

Conclusion: Titus is very likely town here.

why is titus trying to push sgba not her trying to create a counterwagon on herself? whats the distinction between her doing that here and her doing that in a scumgame?

and frankly, ive seen titus break that meta intentionally before as scum [ie: ive seen her bus scummates]. i feel like this isnt taking into account a lot of factors, including whether titus has the time or effort to actually play the game the way she would be wanting to?

Target Stop Getting Banned.
Claim result ASAP after daystart.
Fill in chart AFTER everyone has claimed.
Either split investigations or reevaluate depending on random distribution/possible sanities.

are you townreading the hydra right now?
because i kind of feel like your plan falls apart if we arent all consensus reading the hydra as town at this point.

@everyone in the game

theres three days left in this game.
i want everyone to take a hard stance on porkens, titus and punreader.

[AND GIVE REASONS.]

and either vote in that pool or argue really fucking hard for why we should be expanding the lynchpool right now, or im going to assume that youre sidelining intentionally.
please and thank you.

for where im at, porkens vote is just completely useless and i dont feel like theyre honestly trying to get eddie lynched at all right now, which feels especially awful given how little time is left in the day.

vote: porkens

hoping to get a titus ISOdive done this aft, but as of right now im willing to vote titus for deadline if porkens towns it up.

[Gorkington]

oh also,

@etl

,
dont really see what was particularly town about porkens in that interaction you linked?
if its just gut, i think it would be better for you to try to unpack whatever feeling you have there into something more digestible because i dont really see what youre seeing there?

[Gorkington]

And fuck off Gork, I'll vote when I'm ready. Also, you haven't said you'll agree to the plan.

plan is fine?
especially now that tn's resolidifying the hydra townread for me.

random hostile aggression to me asking pointing out that youre doing nothing with your vote is ????
if youd stated a preference for the lynch and just said "im not voting now because im not ready for day end"
or even just said that youd made your stances clear in previous posts then thatd be fine.
i dont really understand where the anger is coming from?

Because you've been fairly indirect on the subject.

You explain Porkens but neither Titus nor myself.

i thought id mentioned that i felt better about some of your recent posting but i didnt so thats me being dumb.
:')

and theres also things that i want to say that i cant really talk about,
but to put it vaguely:
i feel like you would be doing certain things with regard to me if you were scum right now that you arent.

i think it should be obvious that i like porkens lynch more than a titus lynch.
but i was hoping to have a stronger stance on titus that wasnt just "lol i guess maybe they could be scum" once id reread but i let the weekend and today get away from me
and the next two days arent looking much better so im officially riding by the seat of my pants!
weeeeeeee!

And we have plurality lynch rules; it's impossible to no-lynch so there should be no deadline rush this game.

i still feel like there should be some sense of urgency in terms of trying to sort people via pressure at this point, no?

Rereading now, been a busy few days

hows this going friendo

[Gorkington]

@tn

can you take a look at porkens ISO specifically and talk at my face about them if you have time?

VOTE: titus
nvm that's not how town titus reacts

can you talk more about why for this?
and where your heads currently at wrt porkens?

@etl

can you please come back and make me less scared about you in general?
would appreciate some back and forth with you about porkens.
you mentioned their recent voting behavior stuffs not sitting well with you, asked them about it and they never elaborated on it.
does that make you feel worse about them or no?

Porkens was an early townread that I don't want to reevaluate yet. I can elaborate if necessary.

please do.

and I've just legitimately never considered that Porkens could be scum at this point.

can i get some more words on why for this?
is it just that theyre flying under the radar and havent pinged you at all yet or is there some reason youve been reading them as town?

Speaking of updating the read, it is loosely town, but with some reservations

more words on this?

========================================================

in terms of porkens, i feel like in spite of the difficulty in trying to parse individual posts from them,
i havent really felt any kind of general trajectory behind their reads or really any kind of serious weight behind their pushes.

i hate the eddie vote as it doesnt really feel like they actively want to try to push eddie and just want to seem like theyre doing something given how close we're getting to deadline and a general lack of sentiment for an eddie lynch.

the follow-up is also really irking me reviewing over it again.
i dont really think the survivalism is inherently that bad,
but the vote on titus came

AFTER

eddie switches, which is more or less causing the momentum on the wagon on porkens to fizzle while also following their strongest scumread onto a wagon.

you cant even really read it as pure survivalism when you have this post:

Yeah like I said I don't think 8:50 saves Titus here unless one of them is scum in one is Town I'm using voice to text so I'm sorry if this is not making a lot of sense I'll try to do better but I think we need to assume that the people who are trying to game solver town and the people who are slacking but not me should be the targets so Eddie how about we Lynch Eddie

porkens trying to justify their vote on titus here in hindsight with this a50/titus logic feels pretty awful.
and i kind of struggle to understand how they can reconcile believing so strongly that eddie is scum while also trying to pitch titus as scum here.

if you like titus for scum more/think porkens is town fight me in my face.

[Gorkington]

its bedtime actually
so
fight me and ill fight back tomorrow

or vote for porkens!
thats probably an even better option tbh!

[Gorkington]

scum on sgba

[Gorkington]

but then the next mention of porkens isn't for nearly another hundred posts, in 788 where he votes Nos, and says

porkens and a50 are also okay alternatives on this front!

the front of "i dont know how to read this person right now so lets wagon them" which is kind of different from what youre framing this as.

and then asked me to convince why I thought Porkens was town (which I did)

and i said that i didnt find the reasoning compelling given that it seemed like it was just gutbased:

oh also,

@etl

,
dont really see what was particularly town about porkens in that interaction you linked?
if its just gut, i think it would be better for you to try to unpack whatever feeling you have there into something more digestible because i dont really see what youre seeing there?

and the way the day worked out/the way our activity has lined up this game in general we didnt have time to hash it out when id actually had time to go back and read why you thought porkens was town.

Based on the previous posts and notes here, this was not obvious to me at all...

i meant that it should be obvious in terms of me voting them, pushing them and thinking that they were scum?

Appealing to a bunch of different people, two of which were supposedly "hard scumreads" for input on what became his top scumread (???)

who are the "hard scumreads" that i was "appealing" to????

dont feel like theyre honestly trying to get eddie lynched at all right now, which feels especially awful given how little time is left in the day.

it was also them sheeping on eddie's vote onto titus because they didnt want to die and then afterwards coming back and trying to justify the titus vote that felt really skeevy to me.

[Gorkington]

ill try to get some actual reading in this weekend, but if i cant then i might just replace. idk if i have the time to actually dig into this game in a meaningful way.

[Gorkington]

who are the "hard scumreads" that i was "appealing" to????

I don't remember now. I should have noted those names down. You asked Eddie, Nos and Pun and I thought you had Pun and Nos as hard scumreads.

p-edit: nah lynching an obvtown slot doesn't help us. so, if they flip town, anyone with a town result could be sane, random, or naive, and there's no way to tell which at this point. anyone with a scum result could be insane, random, or paranoid, again with no way to know which.

i mean,
i) if i was scumreading any of them, it wouldnt have been appealing, it would have been asking them to parse if they could potentially be buddies.
ii) i may not have outright posted a readslist, but iirc i was at the time
townleaning punreader, townreading nos and idek about eddie.

and i was trying to get people to give more detailed stancing on porkens and i was hoping to have more time to pick apart responses to try to drive up the wagon by trying to argue it in real-time. obviously i really underestimated how much time i would actually have to do so.
:')

well it wasnt. i got the impression you felt much more strongly about tits.

i do feel more strongly about tits than probably anything else in this game.
but thats besides the point.

[i remember saying that i didnt really feel confident about parsing titus in general?
what gave you the impression otherwise?]

Please don't replace out :< :<You're one of the like 3 people outside of my hydra that are making this game fun for me to play in. If someone's gonna get replaced by Varsoon, I'd rather it not be you.

ill see what i can do. lol. i feel like ive been playing like shit this game so far and until i can really put the hours in im kind of expecting that to continue [and the next few days are only busier for me/theres only so much time i can slack off at work right now q.q]

[Gorkington]

its getting pretty bad for me.
and all of my attempts to stop myself from being on the site during the day have been so futile.
i have the index page blocked with a firefox add-in, but ive been navigating through the site using just the subforums because im an idiot lol.

at least not right now

ooo nice i guess i'll just worry about you calling me scum for this later

He made analyzing the wagon extremely difficult

etl can be maybe town!

[Gorkington]

i dont think it makes sense to lynch sgba if we dont think theyre going to flip scum?

[Gorkington]

like, unless tn's scumgame has gotten secretly amazing with 0 practice i really cant see them being scum

[Gorkington]

i think thats a pretty dishonest assessment of the tnhead's play?
i really dont understand how you can continue to push a narrative of what the hydra was doing during the first 72 hours as though tn just doesnt exist?

suddenly forgetting they volunteered to be lynched today is town

i dont think they actively agreed to being lynched by the end of d1.

p-edit: i feel like coaching cant make someone that much better at scum.
lol.

like, if the sgba hydra was actually scum tryharding, im pretty sure they would be collectively dropping big posts from each of the heads trying to seem busy. tn playing this way just does not read at all in his scumrange from what ive seen of it.

[Gorkington]

TN has 19 people coaching him and has hydraed with me multiple times.

also not really sure what you hydra-ing with him means in this context?

[Gorkington]

Then there's 375 which agrees with my sentiment that copping and lynching it should happen.

but then a shit-ton more posts happened/more planning happened? can you really tell me with confidence that sgba never changed their mind on the validity of lynching the collective coptarget?
especially considering jingle's plan which was actively being pushed on d1 called NOT to lynch them on d2?

[Gorkington]

Wow another vote on me right after I FoS someone.

Jingle, I don't approve but I have no choice.

Wasn't the whole point of us totally copping SGBA is that we'd flip it so we'd start to narrow down possibilities? I recall the hydra suggesting it but cannot find it.

im kind of confused as to how you can acknowledge jingle's plan/say you dont agree with it and then turn around and say "what we're not lynching the megahydra? what gives?"

i feel like you understood what the plan was?

[Gorkington]

It means that his scum game isn't just he doesn't post if scum. I'd like to think I taught him better.

im not townreading tn for posting? im townreading him for seeming overly genuine/his scumrange seeming a lot more comparatively wooden from what ive seen?

I understood what you rammed down my throat but that was not the hydras initial suggestion.

i) i didnt ram anything down anyones throat tyvm.

ii) i dont really see how this is applicable to what im talking to you about?
you came into today saying that people were changing the deal,
but you had actively acknowledged that lynching sgba was never a part of the deal close to end of day one, saying that you actively disagreed with the deal as it stood.
was the disagreement with the deal based on some other factor than us not wanting to lynch the hydra?
what am i missing here?

[Gorkington]

i remember you saying that, but i thought you had changed your mind before end of day though?
i feel like titus is trying to imply that youre only now changing your mind?

[Gorkington]

oh jeeze you actually still thought that after the hammer?
:/

[Gorkington]

if penguin is town he needs to either start taking the game more seriously or replace out.

[Gorkington]

i did it

[Gorkington]

Thoughts?

:thumbs-up:
just would be funny if the randomness ended up working out so that everyone got the same results again
:')

[also its thoughts like this that make me feel like i actually have no idea if this setup is balanced or not]

[Gorkington]

oh oh oh eddie are you telling people how disappointed you are in them?
do me next!

[Gorkington]

I stand by my

Draynth

, SGBA, and ETL townreads.

given that mulch is gone for a year and might never read this game
you could always
yknow
talk about the towntell you have on him

Where's Gorkington at?

sup.
you shouldnt be surprised by me not liking this entrance from you.
(:

[Gorkington]

also i have no idea whats going on with any of the theory talk
and im not sure im going to bother trying to

[Gorkington]

i dont really understand what you want to know from that post.
lol

can you rephrase that?

[Gorkington]

like, ank, if youre trying to tell me that youre scumreading me because of my RVS fuck-around posts and that youre stopping at that point to try to cast a stone at me instead of reading the rest of my ISO where i started playing my usual towngame:
then im probably going to have a hard time understanding why you made that post.
so,
heres to hoping you were saying something else and it just got jumbled.

p-edit: there was a section of posts after the opening where i felt like i was playing kind of off, but like, the first few posts are pretty standard fare for me?

pp-edit: i mean, im kind of just hoping that youre town at this point.

[Gorkington]

or you could go into it now so i can put words in your face about why youre wrong.
(:

[Gorkington]

I read this and I don't get: "Natural Reads progression". I get "How do I justify this vote?" Like, nothing about it is why porkens is scum, but rather why it's okay to be scumreading him. The disconnect is minor, but real, and makes it look WAY more like they're trying to justify the vote there without looking scummy than that they actually think Porkens is scum.

i kind of get more of a vibe of discomfort from his posts regarding porkens at the time, which i feel kind of makes sense given how porkens was posting?

ETL, A50, and Porkens himself.

Given that Porkens jumpy vote was Nos's stated reason for voting him, she was well aware of that.

Given ETL is the one who started the Penguin Push, she was well aware of that.

Given that my unofficial VC is when I voted her, I find it hard to believe she didn't realize it existed. Given that her progression started on the page where I pointed out the VC and ended the next page, with a hammer, 6 posts after the L-1 vote and 5 posts after a post that said I'm not sure if Porkens is town or scum.

I don't believe, for even a second, that Nos wasn't fully aware that was the hammer vote.

i spent a good five minutes looking at this feeling confused before i realized that you were referring to "nos" as "she" here.
zzzzzz

the hammer itself does kind of suck, but it maybe kind of lines up that the post immediately before he voted he was engaging etl on her PP kind of lines up with him potentially actually thinking the momentum was swinging towards penguin at that point.

i think the reaction after the hammer feels kind of genuine too.

Nos, on the other hand, makes a lot of sense as an eddie partner if Eddie is scum. Her contributions sum up to a wall case on pun that looked like something fabricated, and a spurt of activity every time someone talks about suspecting her. There's a ton of tacit approval for the wagon without the wagon actually showing up. Pretty much my only reservation here is pun's statement that she's scummy regardless of alignment, and pun hasn't come back to talk about that recently, although I may have dreamed asking for that.

being suspected is generally a pretty big motivator for both town and scum to start posting more, no?
can you talk about what in particular seems fabricated from the punreader case?

can you also give some words on what this is referring to?

Plus, their reaction to the beetlejuicing implication was not a town reaction at all.

because i honestly have no idea what this means.

still feeling nos town and pending on jingle based on answers.

[Gorkington]

ank's probably town

[Gorkington]

i dont really think scumAnk comes in and immediately pokes me in the face like that.
especially not like that.

would be one thing to ask me some questions to try to look like shes doing something but that really doesnt look like what they were doing.

[and i honestly feel gross about enough of the playerlist that im kind of happy to hold on to something tangible like this :')]

[[though i have to admit that i havent really dug into your penguin case
so i'll try not to be lazy about that when i have some time in between workstuff im doing this weekend.]]

[Gorkington]

i dont think scumAnk would think that she could get rid of me.
like, with the first post she could have been faking trying to look like shes trying to parse me, but the follow-up just really does not read that way.

im actually feeling pretty confident about it the more we talk about it

p-edit: its not that you poked me, its the way you poked me.
i really feel like scumYou just asks me a bunch of questions and tries to look productive.
the approach feels really different from something like song of ice and fire, if that makes sense?

[Gorkington]

if you were to ignore that ank is PP's slot, would you also be finding their content thus far scummy independent of that? or no?

[Gorkington]

i think youre just upset that im better at reading you here than you are at reading me
(:

[Gorkington]

i do like disappointing people

[Gorkington]

all he's done is throw baseless suspicions on locktown

is this referring to me?
or eddie?
wasnt particularly under the impression that you were townreading either of us all that much as of late

top town reads are my top scumreads

her top townreads short of herself kind of seem like theyre lining up with yours
eg: sgba, you and jingle.

unless you just have a really big issue with her townreading herself

[Gorkington]

ank what was the post that you thought was me spewing scum?

[Gorkington]

eh yeah
i was feeling kind of wonky while posting that

[Gorkington]

I'm scum

one down
two to go

[Gorkington]

have already talked about my opening.
have you never had a towngame where you were posting but you felt like you didnt really believe what you were saying?
because im not really surprised that posts like the one you quoted could bother someone.

but if youre going to start shading my nos push, you should probably be picking at specifics instead of just vaguely lameshading me for large sections of my posting?
ask me something.
poke me about specifics.

just calling me scum and saying "oh the nos push was scummy" is literally nothing i can engage on

[Gorkington]

I don't really think Titus is scum anymore tbh

ank
how can you call me scum with titus if you dont think titus is scum
lol

[Gorkington]

keely, ank, both of you outline all of your thoughts on each other please.

i cant really dig into this game much until this weekend
but i can at least give you that i think ank is still probably just wrongtown.

@jingle

wanted you to know that i read your nos case stuff but i probably need more time to sit and really pick at it.
so.
thats probably also a this weekend thing :')

[Gorkington]

Assuming I'm correct, we would just need one of the three town in {Draynth/Punreader/Gorkington/eddie/Titus} to push it through

would you still want my vote if i wasnt one of the three town?

[Gorkington]

His back and forth with Nosferatu is very sketchy; Nosferatu was (apparently less obviously than I thought) giving off intimidated-town tells at Gork's counterpush despite Gork having no basis behind his attack.

have no idea what this means at all

its also really confusing that youre saying that im scummy for having tried to dive into the tituswagon and feeling like the reasoning that people were pushing at the time for it was more or less non-existent?
theres nothing in that post itself that is saying that im finding titus townish, just that i want people to elaborate on why the wagon is a thing because i didnt see definitive reasoning behind the push and that was bothering me.

if someone hits me in the face with an actual case on a50 im happy to pick at it and potentially sheep it.
but just telling me that a50 is scum because im scum and im not trying to sort him isnt exactly particularly compelling

[Gorkington]

like ank, i could get this angle if i was playing at some really high standard and was just completely avoiding a50 altogether
but im getting fucked at work
im busy at nights

i have literally no time right now.

it should be really obvious by my general presence on the forum and by how im playing here.

i can understand being suspicious of me for playing at an underwhelming level, but like, going so far as to push someone else on merits of me being scum rather than just directly pushing for me is kind of baffling?

[Gorkington]

its not a rebuttal?
its an appeal for you to actually engage me instead of just pushing the gamestate based on the assumption that im already scum?

[Gorkington]

I'm not scumreading your overall presence, I'm scumreading how you're using it.

can you be more specific than this?
like
you keep describing general things
and not pulling SPECIFIC things ive done.

im like so absolutely confident that i can directly address why ive done anything that ive done in this game.
and instead of trying to engage me on that, youre just kind of generally assuming that youve got me entirely figured out and theres no need to try to pry for any further potential context with any aspect of what youre trying to push on me in terms of why im scum.

im not scum ank.
like.
i feel like youre not even giving me a chance to prove that im not?

[Gorkington]

theres really no doubt in your mind right now that i could just be generally disengaged town?

[Gorkington]

I'm trying to appeal to ETL to vote for A50 directly because that's far more likely to result in an A50 lynch AND because I feel like I won't have any significant effect on the game as long as her scumread on my slot is intact.

The rest is me pushing her to see why I'm scumreading you. That's literally the entire point of my case.

i mean, it more or less feels like youre voting for a50 because youre saying that im scum and that hes the most likely partner. is there another reason that im missing or is that literally just it?

because the only other reasoning that youre pushing is that "a50 and titus have sketchy interactions" while saying that you think titus is town.
which really just makes it seem like the point of the push is this:

ehhhhh

UNVOTE: Gorkington
VOTE: Almost50

I'd rather lynch the scum that's going to take more effort to lynch but I don't think that's doable right now.

which kind of makes me feel like it should be obvious why im asking you to directly engage me instead of just talking past me?

if theres some aspect of a50 scum that im missing then hit me in the face with it and ill try my best to read it when i have some time
but its honestly just straight up deflating to feel like youre pushing a case on someone via proxy of thinking im scum

[Gorkington]

vote: a50

bang pow hacha

also willing to hammer any wagon

[Gorkington]

if i die tonight its gork
but its also just gork.

interesting theory there ank.
:v

[Gorkington]

ank, i think theres a chance that if gork flips scum, then gork might be scum.
what do you think of my theory?
(:

[Gorkington]

how hard are you prepared to eat shit when i flip town for calling me stupid for pointing out how dumb your pre-flip NKA is?

[Gorkington]

why even bother pitching something like that when either way im just 100% confirmed scum to you?
is it that you think scumMe would be disincentivized from killing you just because you said that? because it literally wouldnt if i were scum here.

[Gorkington]

i dont think that your play is as nearly oriented towards gamethrowing as the way ank has approached me all of today.

[Gorkington]

ank has basically refused to directly engage me because shes so absolutely convinced that im scum and is pushing that i should basically be lynched regardless of what happens today/tonight/whatever happens.
so.
yes.
im considering it actively gamethrowing to not even try to directly sort me when i feel like it should be incredibly easy to read me in doing so.

like, ank has only directly played with me when we were both town a few times and has casually followed around a few of my towngames and is claiming 100% unbreakable accuracy in reading me when she hasnt seen a single scumgame of mine. civ 5 me is so different from here. literally everyone here who has experience with my scumgame isnt calling me scum in spite of me being notoriously shit at scum.
and in spite of that shes literally not even willing to try to resort me.
hasnt even expressed a willingness to even THINK about it.

its really fucking irritating for someone to know so little about how i actually play act like they understand me/the way my thought process works

p-edit: im townreading ank.
i feel like weve literally had a back and forth on this >.>

[Gorkington]

if im just going to have to deal with this tomorrow regardless of who flips what today i would frankly much rather be lynched now so i dont have to read this game anymore.

[Gorkington]

just saying that im espousing nonsense over and over again sure is fun

[Gorkington]

like youre not even logically engaging anything im saying while expecting me to understand why you think that what im saying is nonsense and you expect me not to think youre being unbearably frustrating.

[Gorkington]

and yes i get that youre saying "oh i cant directly engage you because youre charismatic", but you cant then pretend that you have some logical reasoning for thinking that im scum. if you want to sit there and pretend like youve figured me out via your gut and be wrong about it then whatever, ill just try to drop it, but stop acting like you have any basis in reality for calling me scum.

p-edit: if that was literally what i was saying [spoiler alert: it wasnt] then i could understand maybe your point but thats not even from me pushing nos which is what you were just implying was the scummiest part of my ISO????