Mini #119: Pirate Mafia - ARRRRRRR!

[silgado106]

sorry mates (warning, I CAN NOT do pirate talk as easily as captain blicero ) I had some visitors over all weekend long, and I just got freed... but I am back... and I will

random vote: Destroyer

.... destroyers can't be good in a pirate ship can they?

[silgado106]

oh harhar, thought his name was Destroyer, so I guess I voted Dirge
so FD, how come you don't mind a second vote on Thoth, but you minded one on Shelper?

[silgado106]

So massive, are you saying you are scum?

Also LG, you have to unvote first

[silgado106]

umm Thoth, that's the reason why I said that... As soon as someone had put a second vote on shelper he reacted right? But then when you got a second vote on you, I saw him posting in other places but he never said anything towards the person that put the second vote on you, so I was pointing that out cuz I thought it was sort of weird that he didn't want a second vote on Shelper but he didn't care that you had a second vote....

[silgado106]

maybe I was just too impatient and FD hadn't gotten to the Little Italy section? Maybe he does the same thing I do, go from The Road to Rome then to Theme Park and then to Little Italy... I hadn't thought of that... so yeah sorry for jumping so quick by just assumptions ::kicks self for assuming::

[silgado106]

Ok, this all started from my stupid rush to mention the lack of a post from FD about a second vote on Thoth.... obviously I hadn't waited enough for FD to get to Little Italy (we were both online at the same time, but I got to Little Italy before he did, thus he hadn't replied yet). Then Thoth thought my post was suspicious somehow so obviously voted/FOSed me (I can't quite remember right now if he voted for me right away but I don't think he did). That sort of ended there, but then Dirge came and posted about discrepancies in Thoth's posts, which I believe made him vote for Thoth. I already told my reasoning for my "suspicious" post, and I thought it would have ended there, so I really don't think people should still be voting for me just for that.

Basically right now, I am waiting for Thoth's replies, because I think Dirge has some good points, although I think it's possible that Thoth just made a mistake.

[silgado106]

I agree with FD... I don't really see anything that can lead us to believe there's only one group...

[silgado106]

my vote initially was random, then I kept it for the reasons that had been stated, but now since for someone to prove his claim would have to claim themselves, I think I will just

unvote: dirge

[silgado106]

ummm, I'm not sure why you have a vote on me massive (I'm not sure if you've stated why already either sorry) but also I'm not sure of drummer being that scummy... he unvoted 2 MINUTES after he put you one away from a lynch... I'm not sure, but if he really was trying to get you lynched fast, I would think he would have left that vote on your for longer?

[silgado106]

Dirge you keep saying that he has half-read through the stuff and that you used "quick unvote" instead of "2 minutes" but you haven't said anything regarding his actual comment to your post...

and at this point, 1 hour from deadline, I think LG is definately more scummy than drummer, but if I place a vote, Drummer still goes... I'm going to place one just in case someone can place another after me

Vote: Lord Gurgi

[silgado106]

musket, hanged, and married, and we know there was a Priest, but there hasn't been any deaths related to the priest though, or maybe the

reason

Save the Dragons was cured of pirateness and married a woman was because of the priest? I'm not sure... but I find it weird, that the first night there was just one kill, and the roleblock didn't block a mafia, so what happened to the other killing groups on night one?

[silgado106]

musket, hanged, and married, and we know there was a Priest, but there hasn't been any deaths related to the priest though, or maybe the

reason

Save the Dragons was cured of pirateness and married a woman was because of the priest? I'm not sure... but I find it weird, that the first night there was just one kill, and the roleblock didn't block a mafia, so what happened to the other killing groups on night one?

[silgado106]

sorry for the TRIPLE post, but I think I know how it happened...

The priest married DoomCow (not Save the Dragons, where did I get that from??) with a nice girl night 1...

Thoth (a vig) shot Dirge with his "blunderbuss" which is a musket. Then the mafia killed Thoth night 2.

So I believe there might only be one mafia group, but each member has a different killing method.

[silgado106]

Has anyone heard of Someone? It looks like our votes on him just don't shake him up... but I don't want to put him one from a lynch before he speaks so I won't vote...

[silgado106]

why the heck didn't I think of Thoth being a SK... that's very possible as well of course.... and it really was true, Dirge I got blocked Night 1...

[silgado106]

Umm, in Dirge and Thoth's death scene it says "Another victory for pirate-haters everywhere!" right after Thoth's death scene, doesn't that mean that Thoth was then a good pirate? Meaning he was actually a vigilante?

But anyways, I think we might be digressing from our point... which is to catch pirate-haters out there....

[silgado106]

Umm, Dirge, did you just say that I am

sure

of the mechanics? how funny is that, when I said, and I quote:

sorry for the TRIPLE post, but

I think

I know how it happened...

(bolding added by me now)

and then

why the heck didn't I think of Thoth being a SK... that's very possible as well of course

after someone mentioned that Thoth could be a SK. And anyways, the reason I am now sure that Thoth was not a SK, is because of what I said earlier, the part that says "Another victory for pirate-haters everywhere!" and that's because even though Thoth had a blunderbuss and all, he is still a pirate, while the only mafia we've caught is not a pirate at all, but a priest. And come on, wouldn't

you

say that a PRIEST was the one that MARRIED the pirate, isn't that what priests do?? I believe that is kind of logical... all I've done is connect 2 and 2 together to get 4, maybe it's just my 4, since it's my logic, but now accusing me because I am

sure

of something that I said I

thought

was possible, now

that

is just crap logic (and excuse my italics ) so

FOS: Dirge II

for crappy logic....

And anyways, didn't just STD agree with me in my previous info? It doesn't make sense to just accuse me, when others agree with me..

Also STD, what do you exactly mean with this "Slidago joined the unvote Dirge bandwagon" (and btw I'm Silgado ) I am suspicious, because I was the SECOND (now I don't really see that as joining an unvote bandwaggon, when only one person before had unvoted!) to unvote Dirge after he claimed?

[silgado106]

But I still don't get, how does unvoting implicate a person is mafia? And also the reason was stated in my post when I unvoted, I realized that for Dirge to be cleared, like I would have hoped, meant someone

else

had to claim as well, and this I realized I believe from Massive's post actually, and by the time I read his post, Shelper had already unvoted

[silgado106]

actually, before, I used to leave a window open with mafia scum, in easy access to refreshing, and well I can very safely and honestly say I most likely refreshed the window, in which Massive's post showed, then I might have stepped out of the room for whatever amount of time, and when I came back I replied, and when I pressed submit Shelper had already unvoted before me... but anyways, we are focusing on something very stupid and minimal, going with the flow by unvoting after one person... c'mon...

[silgado106]

I'm really sorry, but you confused the heck out of me with your last post Dirge... do you mind make it a bit simpler?

[silgado106]

sorry guys for the inactiveness in the last couple or so days... I just moved into my college dorm and I had no way of letting anyone know of my away time before I moved because my dad disconnected my DSL, but anyways I am now back...

No one has brought up any new points against me, other than "Your scum. You put words in my mouth." which of course it's not much of a point rather an opinion, so really I don't know what else to tell you guys (this is the hardest part for me in mafia games, defending myself when people see me as suspicious and I am an innocent, need to work on that) other than claiming of course, which I guess I am willing to do

but I also don't see that much about Drummer either... but I will be back maybe later to reread a bit more from the past posts....

[silgado106]

Hey Dirge, that's actually insulting... since I'm not playing dumb, I should actually take it like you just called me dumb, and that's not part of the game in my opinion.... and did you even consider from what point I meant that no one had brought up new points? Maybe if you would have answered my question about clarifying it I wouldn't have completely dismissed it.

[silgado106]

Oh whatever, I'm too tired of this... I will never try to defend myself ever again, as every single time I'm in a game and I have to defend myself, people just push what I say in my face and make it sound like something completely different... I'm freaking Dread Pirate Roberts.... I'm so tough and scary that I can protect one person per night as anyone who gets near them with me next to them will run away screaming like a little girl... so there you go, good luck town with the rest of the game....

[silgado106]

with all the commotion about voting for me and all, we haven't focused on anyone else... so other's participation is now critical...

[silgado106]

I had to check my role again, but no I can only protect someone from an attack, so I don't block any other roles or anything

[silgado106]

crap, I completely forgot there was a deadline... it's 50 minutes away, so I think there's only one thing left for me to do, I can place a vote on FD, making it 4, which means at deadline he's dead, while he has a little bit of time to defend himself or say whatever he wants to say... so

vote: FD

as I just went back pages, and literally he hasn't said much at all! I hadn't noticed that actually... and then even, he almost got Drummer lynched over Lord Gurgi, accident? maybe not....

[silgado106]

I don't understand why I wasn't killed last night.... although it does kind of make sense now....

Last night, just in case I wasn't targeted, I protected Save the Dragons, as I saw him as the least suspicious, and I would think Mafia would kill the least suspicious, as to leave the most suspicious players in the game and get everyone else more or less confused...

And I had also seen Shelper as a bit suspicious the day before, but I won't put a vote yet, I'll wait until he talks

And by the way, Jose would be me

[silgado106]

Oh yes... I was very ticked off too when I realized I had put a vote on someone who was away... After we lynched him I went to the Designer 2 thread and saw that he was going to be away for 8 days... sorry FD

Also the reason I said it kind of makes sense now is your number 2 option... the only reason I see for Mafia not to kill me is to try make everyone else think that I lied about my role claim.

I also find it kind of funny, that you Shelper, first said

I had to google dread pirate roberts, (both a real pirate and a character in princess bride, for those too lazy to look it up) and i believe silgado.

But now all of a sudden you are doubting my role claim. Why the change of heart?

I also find it funny how in that link you yourself posted (http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?DreadPirateRoberts), it says that Dread Pirate Roberts was also into the whole Piracy thing, which would tie in with Drummer's pirate, yet instead of linking me to Drummer's pirate, you go and say that my character "differs quite a bit"....

I'm sorry but all I can say right now is that you are looking even more suspicious... so

vote: shelper

[silgado106]

and of course by character I mean role

[silgado106]

The only connection between me and drummer that I see is the piracy, nothing else...

I

didn't even know my role was into piracy until I read that page today...

I think we should just wait for others to post their opinions...

And why am I a real pirate?... I have no idea.... but that's what my role is named...

[silgado106]

Umm yeah... why was I thinking the rest of the pirates weren't into piracy, when well that's what pirates do!... I guess is just seeing in his death scene that he was adamant about it, and then reading about my own role being adamant about it is what I meant I guess...

[silgado106]

Well CB has asked for a replacement for Narn, should we wait until such person comes or should we just continue? I am kind of worried for Narn though I really haven't seen home online at all in a long time, not even in AIM... umm, I wonder if there's something wrong...

[silgado106]

Yes through my re-read of the whole game (I had so much fun ) I saw that Narninian asked to be replaced on August 11th, so I guess CB just missed that post way back then...

Also after reading all of that, I want to ask you, STD, why exactly were you so adamant about not voting for drummer? (I know Drummer is innocent, but it just stood out to me while I was rereading everything)

Anyway, I'd be willing to vote for someone else, but not drummer, unless more evidence appears or we get close to the deadline.

and

I will NOT vote drummer unless there is more to prove he's scum.

[silgado106]

Ok, I see... I do agree... it was just they struck me as odd when I read them that's all...

[silgado106]

Welcome ye dog Fuldu t' our ship...

[silgado106]

Ah! I knew there was something I had forgotten after rereading everything...

Unvote: Shelper

Throughout my reread, the two that kept sticking in my mind for being suspicious were STD and Dirge, but somewhat also Shelper. One of the reasons I asked STD about those quotes from him was because of that. At the end of yesterday, I thought STD might have been the least suspicious, thus why I protected him, but after my reread he made me back away from that thought quite a lot. Just in general things he said and did.

Dirge, While I was arguing with him back and forth yesterday, it just seemed to me he was a townie that had gotten the wrong vibes from me. But after rereading Dirge's agressive attack on me, he also became suspicious in my mind.

I do agree that maybe Massive and Fuldu are cleared, not 100% certain, but maybe.

And also, here you go again Dirge with your play on words that confuses people

My money is on Fuldu since he attacked those of us who have been voting shelper and ignored my reasons trying to ignore those reasons for reasons I don't know.

I do see where you said your reasoning, but I would much rather prefer that you would point to them when someone addresses you, rather than telling people they are ignoring them.

silgado appears to have voted for him because he can't see how a claimed doc not dying at night tends to throw suspicion on the claim

Actually, I completely see that, and you can see that from one or two of my first posts today, I said that I saw how it made sense, then after Shelper posted, I told him that I was just thinking his Option Number 2, they [Mafia] most likely killed drummer to throw suspicions my way. One more point on this, I actually find it unlikely that they had found out drummer was a roleblocker, and even if they did know it, they would have most likely still chosen him over me, just to make my claim completely doubtful. In my honest opinion, it was a clever tactic, as some are still in doubt.

About Shelper's role claim, I do sort of believe it, since he did say before that the reason he was at one point suspicious of my claim was because his role, like most of the rest, are not actual pirates with names, but rather just generic pirates. Internet Pirate sounds like some of the rest of the pirates, but of course he could have very well just made it up. I also wanted to ask the rest of you, if ANY of you have an actual name for your role. I really would like to know, with just a 'yes I do' or 'no I don't' because I find it very amusing for me to be the only one...

One more thing STD, please do refer to me here as Silgado, I don't mind you calling me Jose, but others clearly get confused.

[silgado106]

Yeah sure, let me just give you guys all three nights:

Night 1 - Flying Dutchman
Night 2 - Narninian (Who is now Fuldu)
Night 3 - Save The Dragons

And I believe the reason there was only one kill on Night 1 might be because there's no SK... if that's the case then the mafia killed one person on Night 1, then they killed another on night 2 without Lord Gurgi, that is why the killing method changed from Marrying to Hanged, and that same night Thoth, the Vig, killed Dirge, then Night 3 the mafia yet again killed another one, that is why Drummer was also hanged.

That's my speculation anyways... unless of course Drummer blocked the SK all three nights or something... which we know is not true because Dirge 1 was blocked by him on Night 1 or 2 (I can't remember which one)

[silgado106]

Can we ask the mod to verify that for us about Thoth? Umm, I guess I'll just ask and see

CaptainBlicero

, was Thoth a Vig or a SK? Or are we not allowed to know?

[silgado106]

Dirge... the opposite of Pirate-Haters would be a Vig, as the Vig tries to kill mafia, while the SK kills anyone... That is my main reason for thinking that he was a Vig, and I started that a long time ago... but anyways, we have other matters at hand...

[silgado106]

Ohh ok Dirge...

And yeah Fuldu, I agree with you. Which means, if we lynch wrong, pirates completely lose. And now we even had a deadline which makes it even harder!
I suggest we keep conversations going, EVERYONE should be talking, that's our only way of catching them...

[silgado106]

I really don't want to risk it either, but how sure are we that tomorrow will bring something to light? I might be able to protect a kill, but what if I am not? I might even get killed myself..... arghhhh (not in the pirate way, but the frustrating way lol) I'm not going to vote because we are going to have a no lynch anyway. I just wish we could have figured out something today... there HAS to be something out there that can give us a clue... Also tomorrow, when we wake up with at least 5 people alive, then

that

will be the real challenge... then it would be the lynch-right-or-lose...

[silgado106]

Yep, it does gives us majority, as long as only one person (hopefully none) dies, like Shelper said.

I'm not sure if Dirge actually voted for no lynch, since he didn't put "vote" in front of it, so let me

vote: no-lynch

and then either wait for night, or let Dirge or someone else put the last vote.

[silgado106]

Sorry for the double post, but I have an idea and I want to know what you guys think about it...

If there's any investigative role out there, they should come out today, that way I know exactly who to protect tonight. Since that copish role would be protected, the mafia would most likely kill me, and then you guys have that investigation to rely on tomorrow which should be A LOT of help.

If there's a flaw with this idea please say it before anyone claims anything.

[silgado106]

Omg. I do agree with you Shelper, two nights in a row it's just too much, they are doing it on purpose and they want to see me lynched. That's just very wrong of them. I do assure you that I did not kill Fuldu though. I was VERY close of protecting him, but I changed my decision in the last minute.

I wrote down everyone's name on a piece of paper, and then I decided to think how mafia would think if they wanted to leave the doc alive again, meaning who would they kill to make me look more suspicious. I started crossing out names, thinking those wouldn't be people they would kill, like for example Shelper, I knew YOU were going to survive. You were the first name I crossed out. I then crossed out Dirge and later STD. The last two were Fuldu and Massive. I was not completely sure which one to protect, so I went with Massive because of something that I want to keep underwraps for a bit. I was really hoping they would try to kill Massive, meaning no one would have died, but I was wrong... again. I did write on the piece of paper my thoughts about the pair of Scum, and some reasons as to why some people wouldn't have been killed at night. If any of you want me to reveal any of that, I will, but I would like to first see everyone post before I say any of my suspicions.

Another thing would be an investigative role. I think at this point it would be useless if they stayed hidden, because it is either lynch right or lose. And yeah Shelper, I wouldn't mind a mass role claim either.

Well that is all for now. I will come back later with what I said I would post.

[silgado106]

And that is exactly the reason why I protected you... I saw your hints, and I figured they would have seen them too and try to kill you, but I guess they saw my move as well I really do believe Massive's claim, as he has been pointing to it since almost the beginning.

I think that alliviates things a bit. Now, even if we lynch wrong, we still have a safeguard, but I would much, much rather lynching correctly today.

I think we ought to hear a claim from STD and Dirge though before we can move on.

[silgado106]

STD, I also agree with you that the mafia are probably being risky. And I think your claim sounds believable, for now. But we have to wait until we get your results from FD ok?

Dirge, can you elaborate on your role? You haven't told us what you do, if anything. And also I want to ask you, how come you never came out and said that you also had a named role when I asked you guys?

It's obvious two of us are lying. And it's also even more obvious, that only two of us don't have any night choices at night. Does that hold any clues? I don't know. I will wait for Dirge to answer me, as I have to run now.

[silgado106]

I don't believe I made a freudian slip Dirge. It's obvious that two out of the five of us are lying, and unlike Shelper did of excluding himself and being called on it, I included myself as I know some of you might still find me suspicious. And it is very funny how you are saying that I am one of your two choices as being more suspicious, yet you tell me that I am making myself sound more suspicious. I NEVER said I was suspicious, yet I did say that me not dying would make me look more suspicious. When you read my messages, please read them right.

I didn't remember you asking but I do recall that I said this...

Well that's weird, unless you just skim through my posts and don't actually care as to what I say, it was very clear that I asked everyone to say if they had a named role or not, and well I believe two people answered me, yet you don't remember me asking this. Yes, very weird indeed.

[silgado106]

I do have to say that I did find Dirge's claim, Samuel from Pirates of Penzance, a bit suspicious. But I should really have no say on it because my own role name is literary like his, although mine has no source as to where it actually came from. I also do agree with Massive about the last person claiming aspect, since they shouldn't be worried about counter-claiming. And I will also re-read the game as well, seeing we can't judge anyone right now from their roles or their actions.

About Thoth being a Vig/SK, I did have my mind set on Thoth being a Vig, because of the sentence in the death scene, but with you (massive) being a Vig as well, and the very good possibility that he could have targeted Flying Dutchman on the first night, the person I protected, I have to say that I am being convinced that Thoth could have most likely being an SK. Is it probable that he could have tried killing Flying Dutchman on Night 1, guys?

And one more thing, if you look at the numbers, if we lynch wrong today, even if massive kills right tonight, we still lose, because the mafia will be able to kill one more person as well, leaving one townie against one mafia. So I think it is critical that we lynch right today.

[silgado106]

Alright first, after my re-read I noticed the mixup I had with the no lynch, I didn't notice that Dirge had already voted for no lynch on the previous page, so I thought there was still one vote left, but well it doesn't really matter.

As I see it, there's only four possibilities as to scum pairs:

1) Dirge and Shelper
2) Dirge and STD
3) STD and Shelper
4) STD and Dirge

Throughout the whole game all three of them, or their respective predecessor or temp, have voted against some of the others. (NOTE: Someone = Dirge, Big Kahunia = Shelper and Dragon Slayer = STD, just in case I post any quotes from them) These are some of the interactions I picked up on, maybe not all of them though:

DS once, very early, voted for Someone:

I'll unvote:thoth, and vote:silgado. Part of this is shameless bandwaggoning, but it really looks like something is going on here, even if I don't know what it is.

Vote Someone.

This was while suspicions were running high, as it was early. So I have to wonder if two people are working together, would they do that? Just throw a vote like that and a quote and try to get others to pick up the suspiciousness? Or did he really do it to try to distance himself from scum partner?... I really don't know

Another instance was when both STD and Shelper, around the time when STD had recentely replaced DS and Someone had still not gotten replaced, voted for Someone, which picked up into a sort of bandwaggon when FD joined in as well and he got to be one away from getting lynched. And STD unvoted only after Massive said that we should get Someone replaced rather than lynched.

And very shortly after that, both STD and Dirge (II) got on my case and voted for me and almost formed a bandwaggon, which was the one that later on made me role claim.
Then after I role claim, Dirge unvotes first, then STD, then Dirge votes FD, and then STD follows again and votes for FD.

Then as soon as the day comes back with Drummer dead, STD votes for Shelper, I follow as well because his change of heart seemed suspicious which he later said was because I hadn't died which does make some sense, and then of course Dirge gets impatient and votes for Shelper as well. Why is Dirge impatient? Shelper had just talked a few days before, yet Dirge says "Talk to us".

And of course the most recent one, I should say the current one, is the one in which both STD and Dirge are pegged on Shelper being scum. Dirge has also said that I am in his suspicious list, but since I am claiming to be a doc, he says that he doesn't want to vote for me, so he wants to vote for Shelper.

All in all, STD (or someone with his role) has only voted for Dirge (or someone with his role) twice, while Dirge has not voted for STD at all yet.

Also other suspicious things I picked up (these are about Shelper):

Big Kahunia (who had Shelper's role) said this - "As far as Thoth and Dirge situation, maybe it's two pirates looking hard for scum." This was also mentioned by Massive a long time ago. Of course if Big K was scum, he would know that both Thoth and Dirge were just pirates. And another thing

Big K said this - "Civilians that emphasize morality and not the reveling life of a pirate?" This sounds of course like the Priest, who married DoomCow and prevented him from his non-moral pirate life. But when Big K said this, all we knew was that DoomCow had married "a nice girl" From that I immedeately thought that the mafia might be "nice girls" just like Shelper did as he said so in a post of his own some time ago as well. So was Big K just making an assumption as to the "civilians that emphasize morality"? Or did he know that LG was a Priest since they were scum buddies? And if that is the case, was Shelper trying to rectify Big K's error by later saying that the mafia was most likely "evil wenches"? Arghh... I really might be grasping as straws here, but I think that every little action counts.

NOTE - I don't expect any of you try to defend what your predecessors have said, as I know that is impossible.

So looking at all of those patterns, and looking at these:
Silgado - Dread Pirate Roberts - Doctor
STD - Pirate Who Forgot Where His Treasure Is Buried - Some type of dead player examiner thing
Shelper - Internet Pirate - Nothing/Townie
Massive - Pirate Manning the Cannon - One shot vig
Dirge - Samuel, from Pirates of Penzance - Nothing/Townie

I have to say my top two suspects are Dirge (II) and STD.

Now I would like for EVERYONE to tell us all who are your top TWO suspects, as we have more or less concluded there's two mafias left working together, tell us all your top two, and WHY. And why am I so demanding? Well I don't know, just do it.... please?

Also Dirge, while I was writing this I just saw your latest post, so I am going to comment on it here as well.
I did see Shelper throwing suspicion at me, it's kind of hard to miss those things, we don't all skim posts like you do. But anyways, I did agree because, umm, it's true. I didn't die two nights, it's obvious mafia was trying to throw suspicions against me. Also nice misquoting there. I can almost take it as if you are making fun of me. Anyway, you are right, I didn't put Shelper among my top suspects, mainly because I never posted who my top suspects were! I have no idea which post you are looking at, which I would like for you to point me to, but I never said that Shelper was NOT a suspect and I never said that STD WAS one of my top suspects until this very post. In fact, all three of you, STD, Shelper and yourself were my ONLY suspects until I went back and re-read the thread. Now I really don't know what you are trying to do here (lol that's a joke) by getting Shelper to look like he was trying to make me vote against STD later on. But you have just added more suspicion to yourself in my eyes. I should add another star by your name...

Ok this post is long enough. Yet no vote until everyone talks Also if anyone is confused by any part of it, just ask hehe.

[silgado106]

1. I did ask if anyone wanted to hear about my decision, you should have asked me before making assumptions.

This is how I paired people during that night:
1) Fuldu and Shelper
2) Massive and Shelper
3) STD and Dirge
4) Dirge and Shelper

Obviously by looking at these, I knew Shelper just would not die. He's either mafia or town (duh). If he's mafia, he won't kill himself. If he's town and he's killed, it would eliminate every possibility leaving just you and STD. Obviously that was not going to happen. Thus I ruled out Shelper. I then ruled out you and STD from protecting. Maybe because I thought you two were scum, or maybe because I thought you two were just not going to get killed, because as Fuldu said, if the mafia was smart they would kill either Fuldu or Massive, since we know that one of them is not mafia. Therefore I protected one of them, unfortunately the wrong one At the time I was eliminating people not to protect, I knew ANY two of you (Shelper, STD, Massive, Fuldu and yourself) could be scum, so I did not make a Suspects List.

2) Waiting for STD to give his result is something I am sure ANYONE would have done. To do one of two things: try to prove that the claim is absolutely false and therefore he is scum, or try to see how his role works by hoping that his investigation on FD would bring something up.

[silgado106]

1. It is correct after I told you, but you assumed so BEFORE I told you, and then took your assumption and used it against Shelper.

2. Umm.. I never even said the word "suspicious" in my reply to your second point. I did say that as everyone most likely might have done, is try to get FD's result to see what conclusion we can come up to about his role. What I am trying to say is that me asking for FD's results shouldn't have made anyone think that I was suspicious of STD. But you seem to think that is the case, and trying to build that against Shelper... again.

[silgado106]

[start of STD response]

2. The last roleclaim

If anyone holds any weight on this, I will smack them. I have a little something called school on the west coast, and I get out really late anyway, and so by the time I'm out it's dinner time on the east coast. Besides, I could have just as easily picked...well...I really don't know, but I'd probably do it a lot simpler than "I investigate dead people."

You can say that you could have picked something simpler all you want, but that still doesn't justify anything. You have mentioned it yourself, WIFOM, I am not even going to take this point seriously.

As I see it, there's only four possibilities as to scum pairs:

1) Dirge and Shelper
2) Dirge and STD
3) STD and Shelper
4) STD and Dirge

wtf?

Haha, you can tell I was doing that part in a hurry. I had the three names written down in a piece of paper, and I just paired them up with the other two, obviously not realizing that they only make 3 possibilities, not 4. Excuse my error ::oops::

Hmmmm...interesting. Evil wenches I think means bitchy girls in pirate times but I dunno for sure. It could mean any evil person...I dunno for sure the definition of wench. Anyway...I think that part is grasping straws, but...the B_K thing...I think you got something.

I don't think you understood what I said. First of all, I know what he meant by "evil wenches". That was Shelper after he came back and Big K wasn't replacing him anymore. How am I grasping straws only at what Shelper said, but not at what Big K said... and if I have something with the Big K thing, then why do you say this afterwards?

He's hypothesizing. I find it very suspicious you pick up on those words and ignore the context of the phrase. My spanish 200 teacher would kill you (because she said "context of the sentance" a lot). Then again, I have no doubt you could translate the sentance in spanish forward and backwards, so she probably wouldn't. I digress. Digress is pretty wierd if you say it like that. It's like, "LOOK AT ME! I'M DIGRESSING!"

Sorry. I'll stop now.

So I first have something, but then I am suspicious because I picked up on "those words"....

1. Shelper. He's been very defensive; etc. I don't think I need to get into this.

Well yeah I would like you to get into this, because I not only see him being defensive. I see you, dirge and even myself being defensive. Is that all you really have against him? Seems rather weak to be your top choice.

2. Should I go with the doc who refuses to die or mr. aggressive?

I'm liking Dirge, because he's playing hard, and he's hiding behind me, picking who I'm picking, etc...

[sarcasm]Yes, every night when I am about to get killed, I beg and plea and refuse to let those scumbags kill me. It works, you should try it.[/sarcasm]
Anyway, yes Dirge is playing hard, he has been playing hard since the very beginning of this game, remember the Dirge/Thoth thing? Remember the Dirge/Me thing? But wait a sec, the first Dirge (the one in Dirge/Thoth) was actually a cop. Ummm. I think that rules out your "playing hard". And is he really hiding behind you? Or just relying on you? And vice versa? Because I do remember, in some of the points I wrote, that you were the one that actually followed him. Ummm. I think that rules out your second point against Dirge. So now really, what is the real reason you think Dirge is scum?

Because if Dirge is scum, it doesn't make sense for him to go so heavily after shelper...so probably only one of them are scum.

So there's shelper, Dirge, Sligado, and the Vig that we've pledged as truthful. I'm not saying I'm disbelieving his role claim, but I think it's possible Thoth was a vig and Massive is Maf.

But I'm going to put Massive aside for now, because I do believe him, and all the situations I can think of in my mushed up brain don't add up to him mafia.

But I'd say Dirge, and I have more in my very last point:

Exactly, it wouldn't really make sense if the scum would go against scum this late in the game, it would make them lose one partner, making it way harder for them to win, when all they have to do is make an innocent sound like scum, get him lynched, and win the game.
It is true that Massive could be Mafia if Thoth was actually a vig. But would he really be preparing himself for his roleclaim, ever since Thoth died?? He kept repeating over and over that Thoth was a SK, he even said I was suspicious because I refused to believe that Thoth was a Vig. It sounds to me like he (Massive) has been a Vig throughout the whole game. And if he isn't, then he was EXTREMELY smart by preparing for such a role claim, not even knowing how things would turn out later on in the game.
So then, going by your own suspicions here, if Dirge and Shelper aren't scum together, Massive is not scum, and I know I am not, that can only mean that the scum couple is... yourself and Dirge.

2. At first, Silgado was winning with waiting for the result is what anyone would have done.
Then Dirge rebounds, making his point that Shelper had extra time to attack me.

Of course, you couldn't finish off your defensive post with a little hint of making Shelper suspicious.
[End of STD response]

[Start of Dirge response]

My assumption was based on what I observed when silgado described how he picked who to protect. This is where I alluded to my "inkling".

Please, do not say you alluded to your "inkling" because you never did such a thing in your original post. You took your assumptions about my post to try to build something against Shelper, but you really had nothing, as my post contained no such Suspicious List.
And yes, I know what passage you were referring to, there was no other post you could have drawn up conclusion from like you did. Please tell me where in that post it says that Shelper is not in my suspicious list and where it says that STD is my suspicious list. Can't you just admit that you made a big assumption, and there's really nothing there in my post, yet you picked it apart to try to convince me that Shelper was using it to force me to vote against STD?
I think that was your goal with you original post. You were hoping that I would agree with you, since Shelper was forcing me to vote against STD, and then start looking at Shelper rather than you and STD, and I would eventually vote for Shelper, while STD comes on and votes for Shelper as well.
[End of Dirge response]

[Start of Shelper response]
Yes Shelper, although STD and Dirge are my top two, you could very well still be mafia and I am still looking at you as well.

1. Dirge the second. For his almost continual attack on me.
2. Save the Dragons. Fishy roleclaim, and a gut.

Well yeah, Dirge is attacking you... now. Before this, he wasn't really attacking you. What were your suspicions on him BEFORE he was attacking you?
I do agree sort of with the fishy roleclaim, but let's not use role claims to pick our suspects, as mentioned by Massive. So is there anything else you have on STD?

I didn't latch on to anything, i saw STD post a role i didn't buy and responded to it. Because i posted it after a player who was also suspicious of it automatically makes me latching?

I never said I was suspicious of his role. In fact I said that it sounded believable. Don't go around putting words in my mouth.

[End of Shelper response]

Sorry, I promise this will be my last looooong post, it is just too much stuff to point out! I think I will now wait until Massive posts, I would love to hear what he has to say after re-reading the thread. Maybe he picked up better things than I did. Also Dirge, you never pointed out your top two, did you skim through my post yet again?

[silgado106]

Ok, I agree with your points here. And yes, about your last quote from Dirge, it's true. Shelper never said that he found unbelievable that I didn't protect right at night.

[silgado106]

Sorry, I know I promised no more long post. But what can I do when people fling stuff at me?

Whoops! You missed a line:

Hmmmm...interesting. Evil wenches I think means bitchy girls in pirate times but I dunno for sure. It could mean any evil person...I dunno for sure the definition of wench. Anyway...I think that part is grasping straws, but...the B_K thing...I think you got something.

That is, I would be saying that, however:

Yes I did miss that line. So you are telling me, that as you were going along with me, you were agreeing with me with the Big K thing, then you see Big K's post, the one where he is "hypothesizing" (which even if he was hypothesizing, which he was, he put the "moral people"

before

he put the girls? that's really a really weird way of hypothesizing, since the death scene said he married a girl. And also you say he put a bunch of other stuff, when in fact all he put was the "moral people" and the girls. Which post are YOU reading?) and instead of erasing your earlier stuff about agreeing with me, you just post his post and say that I have nothing. That seems like a really weird way of writing your post, which I guess is just that, your weird way of writing posts, rather than something suspicious. So we should dismiss this point.

So basically, I'm saying evil wenches could mean anything

Evil wenches doesn't just mean anything, that meant the girl that DoomCow married. But I really don't know why you are even mentioning Evil Wenches, when it wasn't even Big K that said it!

By playing hard, though, I meant the way he was currently acting. It's open to interpretation. He was playing hard before, but he's playing hard in a different way now, I think. A little less confrontational, but still just as agressive.

A little less confrontational? Did you read his posts?

Wow...that's actually pretty sad. You're trying to make it look like I implicated myself. Way to go:

What you can derive from my logic (if you aren't scum):

Dirge and STD could be scum.
STD and shelper could be scum.

What I can derive from my logic (if I'm not scum):

Dirge and Sildago could be scum.
Shelper and Sildago could be scum.

So way to say "going by your own suspicious...you and dirge must be scum." Good job. My own suspicions do not clear you. In fact, based on this and everything you've said before, you've risen to my #1 spot for scum. Congradulations.

Trying to make it look? No, you did that yourself my friend. What I can derive from your logic, and since I am not scum, it's right, it's either you and Dirge, you and Shelper, or Dirge and Shelper (I think I've mentioned this already)
What

you

can derive from your logic IF you are not scum is also right, me and Dirge, me and Shelper, and also Dirge and Shelper (weird, you missed this one... twice) But, I really have to say I am almost cleared. If you think about it (if you are not scum like you say) is that, how can there BE no doctor if I am lying? That sounds stupid, knowing that there's a "treasure hunter" that is virtually useless, yet there's no doctor? What are the chances of town winning with a treasure hunter rather than a doctor?? And then if we take Massive's claim as true, which you have, that means that Thoth was a SK, which means his first kill was either blocked or doctored, yet we know that the only roleblocker DIDN'T block Thoth. The chances of Thoth choosing to kill FD on the first night are pretty high, and

I

protected FD, and

I

am claiming doctor, and no one else has come forward saying that they protected anyone on Night 1! C'mon, if you really are town you would have seen all of this! Instead of putting me on your number one spot, and congratulating me with a mis-spelled word...

Of course, you couldn't finish off your offensive post without a little hint of attacking me. See that 2? I supported you in 1, cuz you made sense.

I really, really, really want to vote you, Silgado...I've thought you were suspicious for a long time now, but you faded down and we believed your doctor claim. I am willing to take the risk, but I won't yet.

My whole post was attacking you and Dirge about your interactions throughout the whole game!! Did you not pay attention? I know you were trying to make me sound stupid and a hypocrite, but how the hell am I a hypocrite when I attack you in a post in which I started by attacking you?? Jesus, now you really are just making stuff up to cover your own ass, and I am getting really tired.
You thought I was suspicious? I thought the stuff you had against me was weak. Now your stuff was not weak after all? Can you make up your mind please? I really, really, really, want to vote for either you or Dirge, but I am waiting for Massive. He could still very well be either mafia or sk or something and trying to pull one over our eyes by making us fight each other. So we need to hear him speak.
[End of STD]

[Dirge now]

I did to.

You did?

I noticed something that is interesting in shelper's post. He starts out this day casting suspicion on silgado. He points out that it's unbelievable that silgado failed to protect yet again.

Also, it's been two nights now since silgado claimed doc and on both occasions the scum decided they'd rather take out someone else. One night, maybe, but two?

He is pointing out something suspicious here. It's worded in such a way though that he can argue the meaning to be observation rather than suspicion.

silgado missed the suspicion. But, to shelper's good fortune, silgado comes on and agrees... 'yeah, I know it’s like, so incomprehensible'. silgado also doesn’t list shelper among his top suspects which works to shelper’s advantage. So shelper can change his target and turn his gun on STD hoping that if he pushes hard enough he can get silgado to vote STD (one of silgado's top suspects).

Vote: shelper

If you did allude to your "inkling" in that post, it is either very well hidden, or, what I certainly think, non-existant.

You accuse me of skimming and not paying attention? I pointed out my top two already. I believe it was before you demanded it.

Yes, you did post your two suspects, I read that before of course but I forgot you did. Excuse me. Now, yes I am accusing you of skimming my posts, as you did it when I asked people to say if they had a named role or not. Yet you NEVER answered. Didn't you find it weird that both STD and Fuldu answered to a question which you hadn't seen? Couldn't you have then backed me up, instead of letting anyone be suspicious of me being the only one with a named role? Or maybe, you just made up your role name, and forgot that I had asked everyone to tell me if they had a named role name, and then you just said "I didn't remember you asking". Also can I ask you exactly how your role name was presented? Was it just the name, or did it also say "from Pirates of Penzance"?

[silgado106]

Thank you Massive. STD has been trying to disprove the B K slip, making it seem like it was nothing, while in fact I really think it was a slip up, I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks so.

Also, STD, I did include Dirge and Shelper, in fact I included all possibilities in my little chart at the beginning remember? And I even included things that did seem like Shelper was mafia (the big k slip up) so I wasn't just trying to make you two (Dirge and yourself) look like mafia, I was going back and pointing out EVERYTHING I saw scummy about you three. It just so happened that you and Dirge had quite some things I wanted to point out. There's other points that I want to refute back in your latest long post, but I will stop because there's really no reason for me to keep arguing with you when all you do is say things back to me that really don't make that much sense.

But back to Massive. While talking back and forth with STD, I did notice that Shelper has been quite quiet this whole time. He has basically made two posts while me, std and even Dirge a bit were throwing stuff at each other. Which of course can only mean he was just trying to stay well off the radar. Dirge already has a vote on Shelper, can that mean that Dirge and Shelper are not together? Would one mafia vote for the other at this stage of the game? I'm not completely sure. I would think that mafia would try to really get an innocent lynched, unless they were trying to really secure their chances in a three person endgame? So let's say it's not Dirge and Shelper (which STD seems to agree with) it can only mean that it is either Dirge and STD or STD and Shelper. In both cases, STD is the common link. But then again that might have just been set up that way by the mafia (now this is truly WIFOM that's going through my mind, it's really not helping) STD has also said that Shelper is in his top list. So if Shelper is in everyone's list, should we rid of him?

I do agree with you (Massive) about the two slip ups from Big K. Which I think might be reinforced by the fact that when Shelper came back, he just went back to the "Evil wenches" theory (this is where evil wenches comes in, STD). Could that have been trying to rectify Big K's slip up? We need Shelper to talk to us regarding this, as we've been talking about it, yet he has given us no input (again maybe trying to stay under the radar)

Then if we do lynch him, and he turns out to be scum, which of the other two could be his partner? Dirge (although he has a vote on him) might very well be his partner (the role claim is still quite weird, and him trying to implicate Shelper about forcing me to vote for STD might have been a way to make us think we got scum thanks to him). But on the other hand, so can STD. His reluctance to agree with the Big K thing, and when STD and Shelper both voted for Someone (although that was just because Someone wasn't posting, so that might mean nothing)

I think we will wait for Shelper, then after he speaks, we can make a decision, alright Massive?

[silgado106]

Shelper, if Big K was mafia, which you should know if he was or not, and he said during the Thoth/Dirge I confrontation "maybe they are just two townies fighting each other", then that night both of them died, he could have simply said "see? you guys should have listened to me, I was trying to help" of course he didn't say such a thing because you came back. And also as I said before, no one is expecting anyone to defend what their predecessors or their temps said while they were playing.

STD, who are you referring to with your first question? And about the "moral people" the point I am trying to make is, if you have the

fact

that DoomCow was married to a nice girl, WHY would you instead put a different possibility before something that is factual? It just makes no sense, unless you know more than just that. I truly don't think you are seeing this from a townie perspective. Because I can tell you that, at least me, the main thing I had in my mind as to what the mafia was were just nice girls that were going to marry the whole lot of us, but then again, I had no way of knowing that there was a priest on board before we lynched him.

[silgado106]

I don't want to say too much about who you should kill tonight, because I don't want to help scum, although I am pretty sure they have already thought of all scenarios, and they know who they will kill. But I think Dirge might be a good candidate. Although STD is obviously good enough... argh. I was also thinking that I didn't like the idea that BOTH, STD and Dirge, started the day agreeing that Shelper was suspicious. If Shelper is mafia, it's obvious that his partner is giving up on saving him, or rather started the day by accusing him. But if he's not mafia, it's also obvious that the two mafia were working together on lynching an innocent. But at this point, is there anything else we can do to make sure we lynch scum? I don't really think so, we have a lot of information, all that points to all three of them. So I think we should lynch Shelper today, and you should kill Dirge tonight. Also I get to protect tonight, I'll think about this too. I wouldn't mind making it to the endgame though. Umm...

[silgado106]

Oh and also, I wouldn't mind seeing Dirge post his thoughts about what we have been discussing, and also his answers to my previous questions. You have seen them throughout my posts, haven't you?

[silgado106]

Would you like to tell us what those reasons are? I think that would help us, rather than you opposing

our

reasons and hiding yours you should try helping us a bit.

[silgado106]

Umm... I think our reasons against Shelper are not too hard to find, you can just look for them easily.

We will be waiting for your reasons though.

[silgado106]

I'm just waiting to see if Massive has anything else to add, and see if he has finished thinking about tonight.

And also STD, for the love of god I am SILGADO, SIL not SLI. I'll let the first 100 slide by, ok? but no more!

[silgado106]

Here we go. It is twilight. Good luck town, and hope for the best

[silgado106]

Wow... what an embarrassment. I'm sorry STD I chose to really think Massive was cleared Like I said, I didn't like that we were lynching someone that both STD and Dirge were trying to lynch, but decided to follow Massive instead. They had it completely won once Massive convinced us two that he wasn't scum. He was great at pretending he was a Vig from almost all the way at the beginning. Kudos for that. And congrats to Scum. And sorry Shelper Ugh... None of you ever play with me again, I just ruin things all the time, and I thought this one was almost won

Oh and Blicero the reason why I thought, once convinced by Massive, that there was a possibility that Thoth could be a SK was because he could have targetted FD with me on night one.

And also, Thoth did happen to use his kill on Night 2, in your face Massive , which greatly helped Massive's claim of course.

Well I'm done. Sorry again

[silgado106]

Yep. My gullibility lost us the game guys I can't believe I even thought once, just once the thought raced through my head, that Massive could have been backing me up just to get him on his side. And even though I kept going against STD and Dirge, I let it all go to let Massive lynch Shelper?? Could I have been any more dumb? Ugh. I do think though that Massive got really lucky with the Thoth thing. I kept saying that he was a vig, yet Massive kept telling me otherwise, of course I decided to believe him, and the game was done.

[silgado106]

Oh yes of course, thanks CB! It was a great game