Mini #119: Pirate Mafia - ARRRRRRR!

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Alas, poor doomcow, i knew him well.
Arrr, curses, wrong theme.

Farewell me heartie, it pains me ol' scurvied heart to see ya seduced by such an evil a wench.

Random vote: Massive

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Unvote: Massive, FOS; ID.

I'd hardly call a vote in response to being told your nickname is "one of the worst ever" a reason.

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Unvote:dirge

. This type of claim can only lead to a few roles, and i don't think he would've taken the risk if he were scum.

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Aye, we indeed seem to have hit a bit of a slump in posting here. My thoughts:
Dragon slayer hasn't posted in 10 days, while his temp-replacement Gaspode hasn't made any posts at all. Someone hasn't posted in 11 days.
I know i'm not really the most contributing of all people here either but do join in guys
I too have been having troubles in finding anything worthy to contribute but just give us a small head's up to know you're still here ok?

Drummer does indeed seem to be the scummiest here, for reasons stated by dirge, and because of lack of a better candidate, he gets my vote.

Vote: drummer

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we know Dirge is not one of these common roles: basic town, doc, mason, vig

Excuse me, thoth, but how can we know that?
If he is telling the truth and got blocked, he could still be a roleblocked doc if there are two scumgroups who targeted the same person

(unlikely, i'll admit)

or one group missed the deadline and didn't send in a kill. Presuming there are two scumgroups ofcourse, for all we know the evil wenches are all we pirates should fear.
And unless dirge has a record of always using his vig power on day 1, i can't see how that clears him of that either.
I agree he can't be town or mason as he admitted he had a night choice.

[shelper]

Hm... at least nobody married an evil wench, i wonder what happened to that kill.
I think dirge was a cop and thoth... erm.. a vig perhaps? Though probably just a townie.
I was about to go re-read the thread to see who dirge might've investigated the night before to give us any leads only to remember he was roleblocked. Doh!, erm.. arrrr!!

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Avast ye, dragon saver, i'll be joining ye.

Vote: Someone

Don't tell me ya lost yer sealegs there, come out an' help us clear this 'ere ship of non-pirates. Arrrr!

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If anyone has noticed, I've been lurking for the last few days because I have to clean out my computer...I'll be back and posting tonight or tomorow

That's what he wrote in bonus mafia, i'd still feel better though if he could be prodded perhaps?
Massive had a big weirdness list on day 1, but he's yet to show his face this day as well.

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Wasn't that exactly what he claimed?
And i don't really see texas pirate mafia as an SK. Pirates are pirates, arr, i thought it was just us pirates vs the anti-pirates?

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I don't find silgado particularly scummy, to be honest. His priest/married theory is the same conclusion i came to, and that he unvoted as he did doesn't really carry much weight either. The fact he's now saying he went out of the room and then submitted is a bit fishy, but not enough right now to get my vote.

Unvote: dirge

(lurking)

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Sorry for my inactiveness, but lately i've been finding it hard to contribute something to the game not already known.
That said, i'm not really sure who to vote for.So i'll think i'll put my vote back on drummer, him being the one i found most suspicious day 1.

Vote: drummer

Massive - Matey, would ye explain again why we wouldn't be wantin' a full claim from someone about to be lynched? I don't quite unnerstand that part o' it.

The way i see it, roleclaims are to be used as a last resort, if somebody thinks you are scum, you try to convince him you are not with normal arguements. If everybody immediately roleclaims the minute there are two votes on him, mafia will have a field day. The less roles out on the open, the better.

[shelper]

I had to google dread pirate roberts,

(both a real pirate and a character in princess bride, for those too lazy to look it up)

and i believe silgado. I'll assume you're a standard doc but you saying "scare

anyone

while standing next to them" also implies some sort of reverse roleblocker. Not that it makes much of a difference, i think, our cop's dead and the only other pro-town power role out there is the guy who blocked dirge I N1, i imagine. Any more and i think the game might not be balanced.
Oh, and arrrrr.

[shelper]

While i don't feel "active lurking" is a crime, i'd rather have people point out the obvious than nothing at all. But if i'm not mistaken, the deadline is today, and i wouldn't like us go to night with a no lynch.

Vote: FD

, on the sea.

Arrr, you not be the only rhymin' pirate in this 'ere ship, drummer!

[shelper]

And by drummer, i mean ofcourse, STD.
Arrrr

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I am sorry to see we lynched the wrong guy, even sorrier to later find out he was away on vacation at the time.

(sorry ben, in case you're reading this)

. I hadn't originally ment to vote for him, but the deadline snuck up on me, and figured no-lynches hardly ever help the town.

The fact silgado lives also surprised me.
Only reasons i could come up with as to why he lived through the night:

Silgado is scum and scum don't kill eachother.

(doc is a popular scumclaim i hear, and his claim differs quite a bit from all the other roles

(including mine)

as an actual RL pirate)

Scum killed drummer in the hopes we would persue silgado for the above reason and lynch him.

(that's assuming a lot here, but it's still a possibility)

Scum horribly misspelled silgado as drummer.

(comedy third option)

although it does kind of make sense now....

How?

Shelper's looking good to me.

Thanks handsome, you don't look too shabby either. Dinner at 8?
Seriously, i'm not sure why drummer's dead. There weren't a lot of people i found suspicious yesterday, so i put up a temporary vote for drummer until someone came along whom i found scummier. No-one did however, except silgado, whose reasons for bandwagoning i didn't buy. So my vote on drummer was kept longer than planned.

As explained earlier, i don't like early claims, but i seem to be todays prime lynch candidate, so i will be withholding my role information for the time being.
No vote as of yet either.

[shelper]

Why the change of heart?

Because you are alive. Claiming doc in a game this size should have gotten you killed immediatly, which didn't happen. Now i know this is not your fault, so i'm not voting for you, all i'm saying is i will keep my eye on you.
And i'm aware dread pirate roberts is into the whole piracy thing, but you are still the only one here whose rol is a pirate who was, at one point, an actual pirate in history. And i can't really see the connection between you and drummer, to be honest, he was a pirate that hasn't kept up with the times, and you are either an 18th century pirate, or a character in a novel who gets by on reputation alone.

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The only connection between me and drummer that I see is the piracy, nothing else

Well, seeing as this

is

pirate mafia, i think we all share that connection
At least we got some good activity going, here's to hoping we can keep that up the rest of the day.

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Aaah, yes, i completely forgot about the walking of the plank reference.
I think the mafia thought the roleblocker was a bigger threat to them than the doc. How they knew drummer was the roleblocker i don't know, but it

would

explain silgado's being alive.

For the record, i said it wasn't his fault as he couldn't help himself not being night killed. But i'm going to let that theory rest for a while, drummer's role explained why sil lives.

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...drummer's role explained why sil lives.

how?

I was wondering why the mafia would take out a townie when they have a clear shot of the doc. But the mafia somehow figured out that drummer was the roleblocker, and thought him a greater threat than the doc. So they decided to take him out. How they knew drummer was the 'blocker i don't know, but they obviously felt him a greater threat than the doc, and were also pretty certain of his role to pass up a chance to kill the doc.
Now i'm not sure how roleblockers usually work, if they just have to target any mafia to block the kill or if they have to specifically block the one doing the deed, but i think i'm correct in assuming the 'blocker has a better chance of stopping night kills then the doc.

(correct me if i'm wrong here)

The 'blocker can systematically work through a list of the players, and when there is no night kill, the odds of that player being scum greatly increase

(not to complete certainty, as there's always the doc, but increased none the less)

and the blocker can block him the same night if he wishes to try and see if there is no kill again, or try to get some info out of him during the day.
But the doc has to rely on his instinct every time as to who the scum might kill, and this is a lot harder.

Roleblockers may SEEM helpful to the town, but they can cause as much havoc (blocking investigative roles, etc) as they help the town out.

Aye, but not at this stage of the game, i think. Our cop is dead, our doc's been outed, i don't really think there are more pro-town roles out there that the roleblocker could mess up.

(if there are, please don't correct me by outing yourself)

We had the cop (Dirge I), a doc (silgado) a vig? (thoth)

(still not quite sure about that one)

and a roleblocker (drummer). I don't think we are so lucky as to get any more pro-town roles.

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Arrrr? Wha' happened here ye landlubbers, just when we got some good discussion going everybody be goin' as quiet as an...

*struggles to find pirate metaphor*

erm.... as quiet as an erm..... Ye all be very quiet!

[shelper]

Apalogies, apalogies.
It's early morning here (6:30) and don't really consider myself awake enough to write long posts (that and i have to leave in 15 mins) so i'll just reveal my role.
I am an

internet

pirate, or more specifically, the internet nerd. I illegally download stuff. Music, software, books, games, you name it, i've probably downloaded it illegally. No powers, just a townie.

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Fire eatin fuldu, welcome aboard me lad.

The doc not only can protect but if he is successful he can almost be sure that the person he saved is innocent. On the other hand, what if the role-blocker was protected by the doc and the r-b was targeted? Then the r-b could suspect the wrong person.

Very much agreed, i never said the system was foolproof, just that it could give

some

result.

Quite frankly I think that Shelpers certainty of the r-b's threat to scum makes me believe that he is the one that may have targeted him

Well, obviously the rb posed

some

threat to the scum, just as all pro-town roles do. I am just as stumped as you are as to why the doctor didn't get killed. Why scum did what they did is beyond me, i can only try and put myself in their shoes.

That's all i got, i gave you everything i knew, it's up to you guys now to decide if you want to lynch me, or let me live and help you catch scum.

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Presuming there are three mafia left, which wouldn't be that odd, three mafia and an SK are about usual in this size a game i think, both massive and fuldu could have ended the game right there and then if they were mafia.
Which they didn't.
Silgado's doc claim is getting a bit fishier as he does seem to be the only one who had gotten a name with his role, except for Thoth, who had gotten Werebeard. I'm willing to believe sil for now though.
So that would leave Dirge and STD. I wasn't terribly suspicious of either of them before this wonderful display of process of elimination right here to be honest, but that's the only thing i can come up with. There was only one kill N1 though, poor doomcow having been married to a nice girl. May i ask who you protected that night, silgado, see if that can shed some more light on the situation.
Seing as that if we lynch wrong today, we'll all be at davy jones's locker, i'm holding on to my vote for the time being.

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Agreed, we need everybody to participate at this point.
Right now i have mixed feelings toward No-lynch. Yes, i suppose it does decrease our chances of lynching the wrong one, but my gut really doesn't like the idea of going to night with two scum still out there.
I was hoping to go back to day 1 and see what Dirge and STD

(the ones left unclear by process of elimation, post 251, if you've just tuned in)

did in regards to the lynching of the priest, but both players at that time (someone and DS) were horribly inactive and didn't get involved in his lynching one bit.
Going to sleep on this a bit, see if i can't convince my gut to give some good reasoning as to why not to go with no-lynch.

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Aren't you forgeting someone?

... no, i don't think i am.

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Actually, dirge, it's four to lynch, three at deadline. Unless you manage to get another two votes on yourself, we go to night with a no-lynch.
However, i really do want to lynch you right now, but my gut again doesn't want to take the risk.

So i'm going to go along with the no-lynch, and pray the anti-pirates don't have means of getting more then 1 kill in tonight.

Vote: no lynch

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but how sure are we that tomorrow will bring something to light?

We're not, i don't think it will bring anything to light, to be honest, but it will give us slightly better odds of catching scum.

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I don't have a lot of experience in endgames, so i'm not quite sure what our best scenario would be. The way i see it, a mass roleclaim might not be such a bad idea at this point. Since it's lynch correctly or die right now, we could use all information we can get. Comments?
Also, it's been two nights now since silgado claimed doc and on both occasions the scum decided they'd rather take out someone else. One night, maybe, but

two

?

No vote as of yet.

[shelper]

Shelper: I was refering to you.

Well, obviously i know of myself i'm not scum, so i felt it unnecessary to put it in there.

The ones that strike me as most suspicious at this point are dirge and STD. Dirge got a named role but never said he did when we asked everybody if they did. And STD's claim is just so far out there i need to borrow dead dirge I's eyeglass just to get a clear view. What more can we know when a person dies? I think you just picked up on the fact there was confusion to thoth's actual alignment, and build yourself a nice role around it. Except for the part where you can't actually tell us

anything

, so instead of investigating thoth, who you might have learned the most from and help us out, you went ahead and investigated two different persons. Wouldn't thoth make a much better target?
Massive's claim i believe, and i feel he should definately use it, if we do manage to lynch wrongly today in a last-ditch effort to even the odds.

That's all i have to say at this time, i'll be off to school in 5 minutes, i'll try to respond to STD and dirge's claim of scummyness after school.

(or during, if things work out).

[shelper]

Shelper claimed townie...Jose claimed doc...Massive claimed vig...and I got something.
The most obvious choice for mafia is Shelper, which I am inclined to agree with Dirge about the roleclaim.

Are you saying i might be mafia because i'm the only person without a night choice? Doomcow the generic pirate, Dutchman the rat and wooden Fuldu all had night choices as well?
Surely you're not following that logic, that's just plain silly, could you be a bit clearer?

The person that I'm having the hardest time believing is shelper. Internet pirate is a good claim but technically still a land-lubber.

True, technically, i

am

a landlubber. I'm also a pirate though and will do the best i can to preserve the pirate way of life.

(as long as you don't get any seawater or hacked off limbs on my uber-1337 5ghz 1024RAM laptop with extra turbo fans and 8000 megs of illegal software)

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Are you saying i might be mafia because i'm the only person without a night choice? Doomcow the generic pirate, Dutchman the rat and wooden Fuldu all had night choices as well?
Surely you're not following that logic, that's just plain silly, could you be a bit clearer?

Prove they didn't.

Pirate = probable townie
Pie Rat = possible townie
Wooden Limb Guy = come on, there's gotta be SOMETHING more to that role.

I don't have to prove they didn't. If i was indeed the only non-power role on the side of the town, it would be grossly overpowered

(unless they all got roles like yours, no offense please )

. I'm sorry i can't be more helpful to the town by indeed having something to do at night, but rat and generic pirate were likely just normal townies, as i am.

How would Thoth make a better target? I get results on dead people for reasons unknown to me

Because there was a big discussion as to wether or not thoth was indeed on the side of the town. We even tried asking the moderator at some point to help us out, but he just called us names and told us to figure it out for ourselves. Now i'm not sure what kind of information you would get, but if i would have been in your shoes, i would have gone for thoth, the one i feel we could have learned the most from.

WIFOM

WIFOM?

your impossible-to-prove-until-you're-dead-or-copped townie role

You haven't gotten all that many results yourself, treasureboy, all you got is a fancy rolename with nothing to back it up with. If future digging gives the same results as your previous's, you're in the same boat you say i am in. A fancy name but with very little to back it up with.

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Man oh man, sleep in late one day and find a thread the size of an essay when you wake up. Allright, let's see what we have here.

Also, it's been two nights now since silgado claimed doc and on both occasions the scum decided they'd rather take out someone else. One night, maybe, but two?

He is pointing out something suspicious here. It's worded in such a way though that he can argue the meaning to be observation rather than suspicion.

silgado missed the suspicion. But, to shelper's good fortune, silgado comes on and agrees... 'yeah, I know it’s like, so incomprehensible'. silgado also doesn’t list shelper among his top suspects which works to shelper’s advantage. So shelper can change his target and turn his gun on STD hoping that if he pushes hard enough he can get silgado to vote STD (one of silgado's top suspects).

I can't argue the way you interpret my posts, it was both observation and suspicion at the time i wrote it. I wasn't attempting to rally players together so they can all blindly follow me in whomever i see fit to lynch.

Now I would like for EVERYONE to tell us all who are your top TWO suspects

1. Dirge the second. For his almost continual attack on me.
2. Save the Dragons. Fishy roleclaim, and a gut.

Very close these two, they changed places many times during previews but in the end i find dirge's persistence to see me lynched just a bit scummier than STD's role.

It was this I feel that shelper latched onto hoping to sway you to throw your vote along with him.

What I'm saying is that shelper saw you hold off on making a final decision and jumped at the opportunity to build a case against STD

I didn't latch on to anything, i saw STD post a role i didn't buy and responded to it. Because i posted it after a player who was also suspicious of it automatically makes me latching?

Shelper. He's been very defensive

That's because other players have been very

offensive

.

No vote for now, although STD is right in that it would take some precise coordinating on the mafia's part to both vote before the townie vote can unvote, i'm not willing to take that chance.

[shelper]

Well yeah, Dirge is attacking you... now. Before this, he wasn't really attacking you. What were your suspicions on him BEFORE he was attacking you?
I do agree sort of with the fishy roleclaim, but let's not use role claims to pick our suspects, as mentioned by Massive. So is there anything else you have on STD?

Process of elimination. Yesterday there were three votes on me, with four to lynch. Massive and fuldu could have gotten me lynched right there and then, but didn't, so that ruled both of them out. So whoever is scum was riding that bandwagon, its passengers being Silgado, Dirge and STD. I ruled you out at that time as you claimed doc, so that left dirge and STD. My main two suspects.
You were and still are not fully cleared in my mind, right now your roleclaim as doc holds more water than theirs, and as such, you are lower on the scale. Had you asked for my list of scummy people, highest first, you would have been third, with massive coming up last.

I didn't latch on to anything, i saw STD post a role i didn't buy and responded to it. Because i posted it after a player who was also suspicious of it automatically makes me latching?

I never said I was suspicious of his role. In fact I said that it sounded believable. Don't go around putting words in my mouth.

Allright, my apalogies. That post was in response to dirge's accusation that i was latching and rather than debate with him wether or not you were indeed suspicious of STD at that point i decided to just go along with his logic, faulty or not, and point out i wasn't latching.

Also, for the record, something way back i missed earlier.

He points out that it's unbelievable that silgado failed to protect yet again.

I didn't point out it was unbelievable he didn't manage to protect, i pointed out it's unbelievable the scum still didn't decide to take him out.

[shelper]

I am here.
Personally, i thought the whole evil wenches thing was blown a bit out of proportion. At the same time, i can't explain the actions of big_k as i am not him. I can't simply decide to go away for another week and let him replace again to answer your questions. I will try and do my best to put myself in his shoes though.

"As far as Thoth and Dirge situation, maybe it's two pirates looking hard for scum."

Not sure what he was thinking here, maybe he wanted to suggest not to be too quick to lynch either of them for their eagerness to find scum?

Civilians that emphasize morality and not the reveling life of a pirate? Nice, good ole girls?

And if you'll look to your left

(keep all arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times please)

, you'll see big_k trying to speculate at what roles the mafia might be.
It's obvious we pirates aren't the friendliest of folks, so i can see how he might've thought good moral civilians might want us dead, i don't really understand how everybody sees this as a slipup. The nice good ole girls he must have gotten from the "married to a nice girl" as all of us have, including myself only i called them

evil wenches

to stay in the theme of things.

he put the "moral people" before he put the girls? that's really a really weird way of hypothesizing, since the death scene said he married a girl.

Try as i might, i really can't be expected to defend against how other people decide to put together a sentence.

Right now the only one I'd feel 100% ok with voting for is shelper. B-K offered two really suspicious things while subbing for him - the first being his opinion of Thoth/Dirge-I, which I pointed out at the time. Knowing now that (either way Thoth ends up) they both were non-Mafia, this really REALLY stands out. Why put that forward as a possibility? The only reason to do so is so you can play "I told you so" when the real facts come out. And noting that Thoth was killed the next night continues to indicate that B-K may have pushed that agenda. The second is the "what's our Mafia" comment that people have been arguing about in the last couple of pages. It doesn't matter whether he says it conclusively or not; the fact that he put it out there as a possibility when popular opinion was going the other way also makes for a huge "I told you so" possibility, but really just points to the fact that B-K has extra knowledge and has slipped up. I didn't notice that the first time through, so I'm glad you guys brought it up.

You keep saying he said a lot of things so that he could later on say "i told you so". I don't really see the advantage of that, doesn't saying "i told you so" imply that you indeed had knowledge beforehand that others didn't and thus make yourself more suspicious? Why would he purposefully try to appear as if he had more information?

[shelper]

Shelper, if Big K was mafia, which you should know if he was or not, and he said during the Thoth/Dirge I confrontation "maybe they are just two townies fighting each other", then that night both of them died, he could have simply said "see? you guys should have listened to me, I was trying to help"
-------------------------------------
Obviously it's not an overt "I told you so." Silgado has nailed it mostly; what it attempts to do is establish credibility to the town. A scum won't come out and admit it, but they won't disagree when someone says "Well so-and-so was right about this, he's probably trustworthy." It's subliminal.

Allright, i see where you were going with this now, unfortunately i can't say anything about it. It wasn't me. I think i answered all of the accusations directed at me

(me me, not big k me) and if i haven't please point them out to me

, and while i realize we don't lynch players, but rather roles, if you decide to lynch me, the mafia

will

have won.
That said, i feel it's time to put my money where my mouth is.

Vote: dirge

.
I've been saying this entire time he's scum but never dared to put my vote out there. Hereby.

[shelper]

Good game everybody, can't remember when i had so much fun in a mafia game.
When i was lynched i was praying for massive to turn out SK (didn't choose to use his powers to appear more vig-like) and he and dirge would shoot eachother.
Who would've guessed STD was telling the truth, and even so, i never would have linked dirge to massive.
Thanks for modding cap'n, and thank goodness i didn't marry a nice girl.

One last thing though, why didn't you guys kill the doctor? Was it because you were trying to get the town to lynch him?