Mini 2017: Encore Mafia - Now Without Cults [Endgame]

[implosion]

Vote Count 1.15

[5] Espeonage ~ implosion, Wisdom, Myloninja13, Ms Marangal, Awoo
[5] Awoo ~ mastina, Pine, BulletNLynchproof, mutantdevle, Errantparabola
[2] BulletNLynchproof ~ Espeonage, Kokichi Oma

[1] Not Voting ~ the worst

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch!

Deadline is at (expired on 2018-07-01 13:30:00)

V/LA

mastina is V/LA until July 2nd.

Just noticed this fascinating vote count.

UNVOTE:

Espe's 494 and 495 reads like pissed town to me but it's my favorite wagon out of the three leading
I don't scumread Awoo but I think it gets us some good stuff as a wagon. I'd do it just fine as a compromise.
I think BnL is a mislynch.

Unsure what my read is on the worst right now.
I dont think Wisdom is town at all. IDK why people are townreading him
Would still be goodish with lynching Kokichi

That's roughly where I'm at right now

EP posted this, then went on to vote Awoo before the vote count above, and after this VC EP shifted from Awoo to espe.

I don't think third scum makes the shift from mislynch-that-can-be-hammered-through-with-the-remaining-two-scum's-votes to scum-lynch there?

If I were scum with those wagons I'd probably be kind of terrified of shifting at all.

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879 and 880 also just read as what I think is genuine EP. It's sort of... too natural to be scum. 922 and 923 as well. Imagine being scum, seeing a wagon on your only living scumbuddy, and deciding to vote it then immediately unvote it and decry it. That seems extremely unlikely of a thing for scum to decide to do.

Looking at the ISO is convincing me more that EP is town.

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Did you ever make a scum case on Pine? I think your read on Pine was PoE.

Also why would feeling to be ignored dissuade you from making your case?

Feeling ignored dissuades me from making a case because it feels like if I make a case, it'll be ignored......

And I have never made a real case on Pine because it is ultimately PoE. I was pushing him d2 because it felt like he was getting away with serial lurking without any pressure whatsoever, and we'd just caught scum on d1 for serially lurking then reacting poorly when pressured on that serial lurking. I've mentioned a couple points here and there that make me feel scum on him. There's the fact that as mastina pointed out his meta is not to bus, and he's had pretty self-admittedly bad reads this game. Ultimately I guess it's partially PoE but partially a lack of anything that looks town. I think I expect some content from town-pine that looks town, even if it isn't much. None of the content he's produced looks like me to be especially unlikely to be producable by pine-scum, and the simple fact of that is scummy.

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Like, some examples.
This is a crap reaction to a wagon that scum-pine is extremely capable of faking in a spot where he easily could have given a reaction that he'd be unlikely to give as scum.
This post actually kind of pisses me off on a fundamental level by implying that town has no reason to scumhunt on d1 because their reads won't be perfect?? Again, it's a crap deflective reaction to pressure that scum-pine could easily make. And it's in a spot where I can imagine pine giving a reaction that scum-pine is unlikely to make, but he didn't do that.
I'm willing to buy that his inactivity in general is due to RL or other reasons and not alignment. But like, he's pressured a third time and A THIRD TIME he gives a crap "nah stop pushing me you're just stupid" reaction.

It's so... bad. Any of those he could have reacted with some acknowledgment that he hasn't been acting town enough, but if he's town, he KNOWS he hasn't even slightly looked like town up until that point and should show at least a shred of self-awareness of that.

Idk.

[implosion]

And to clarify, I think town-pine can potentially give all of those reactions as well, but I'd expect town-pine to have given some reaction to the pressure that's mounted on him at some point that he'd be somewhat unlikely to give as scum. And I don't think any of those are unlikely to come from him as scum.

Like I mentioned, the meta that mastina mentioned having is relevant here; if she has the very specific kind of meta that I asked for and she claimed to have then this is partially moot but I am doubtful that it exists in as meaningful a way as she is making it out to exist.

[implosion]

VOTE: Pine

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yes mastina

the fact that Awoo unvoted me and then immediately revoted me two minutes later
and the fact that devle, who was not voting me to begin with, and chose to vote a different person that is not me

this is proof that i am scum and that the wagon on me is a wagon on scum that is falling apart

[implosion]

and yes
he definitely shouldn't have unvoted me when i was at l-1 with two people not having posted yet
can you for the love of god please stop tunneling and acknowledge that there are other people who could be scum.

[implosion]

the wagon literally didn't fall apart after BNL unvoting, it was literally the only unvote from my wagon

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It's all beside the point though.

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Suppose I flip town.

What are your thoughts from there between Pine/EP or others?

[implosion]

I’m not really sure. Probably EP first, because I’m finding his defence of you to be quite weird.

What do you think of my points on EP and on Pine? EP's defense of me probably at least partially looks strange because we have significant meta history.

I’m still scumreading you the most though, with one of the reasons being, you seemed like posturing to vote Gmma yesterday.

How am I posturing when I agreed at the beginning of the day with Awoo on a Pine/Maragnal top list? I don't understand how I could openly talk about my reads without it looking somewhat like posturing; if you look at my town meta, you'll find the exact same thing. Sure, I eventually flipped from Pine to Maragnal/gamma as my top suspect, but that hardly means I'm scum who was posturing. It means I had been meaning to re-look at my read on Maragnal, got around to revisiting it and found myself disagreeing with what I had thought. Similarly today I had been meaning to look more at EP, and did, and now found myself agreeing more strongly with what I had been saying. Sure, I could have been scum posturing, but doesn't that also make perfect sense as town trying to figure out which of their reads are accurate as the scum pool is being whittled?

Implosion!scum is the last of his kind, and has no reason to plan for after his death.

Yeah there has never ever been a game where mafia has said they would flip town and considered some scenarios afterwrds hmm you might be right

Yeah I don't understand how Pine can think this is a towntell for me to the degree that he's implying here... it's such a shallow reason to give for townreading me, especially when I've ostensibly started tunneling him and he's literally completely ignoring that.

[implosion]

Exactly what benefit would engaging with your irrationality give me, Implosion? As either Town or scum?

If I ignore you, it's because I don't see any good coming from such a debate.

If you're town, avoiding a mislynch on you down the line?

If you are town and think you're right on me being town, and it looks like I'm going to be lynched today and it's unclear what happens tomorrow, I feel like you should be looking a lot more worried than you are. Especially with me basically trying to use my dying breath to get people to lynch you tomorrow.

[implosion]

Also pretty damn condescending to just blanket call everything I've been saying irrationality without engaging with a single thing that's been said basically all game

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like

on day two, you said this:

VOTE: pine ISO this guy for a laugh. Pushes on town the whole day, avoids the mafia. Contributes nothing.

Wow, butthurt much? I

always

usually lurk D1 because my D1 reads are usually crap.

Hint: the only people with perfect reads are the informed minority, aka scum.

And I found that incredibly frustrating, because it's drastically, drastically missing the point not only of day ones, but the point of fucking mafia as a game.

Now, you are claiming to be town who sees me, another townie, with incorrect opinions on both you and on EP... and you're refusing to engage and explain why those opinions are wrong. You're refusing to engage with anyone else on my wagon that you implicitly disagree with, or really engage directly with anyone. And that, too, is incredibly frustrating to see from an experienced player who I've seen better from. And it really makes me feel bad about considering you as town, because I know you're capable of much more protown behavior (as both alignments, but certainly as town), yet you seem to have no interest whatsoever in it.

[implosion]

Please just promise me that if I'm lynched and flip town you'll take my points for EP being town into consideration, particularly 1357-58. I might be wrong but I really don't think I am.

[implosion]

i mean that's my hope

that or you fucking massclaim and go from there

[implosion]

I think town was overly complacent after a great first two phases.

This.

gg.