569 Adel's Nightmare -- Game Over!
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
Could you explain this more?roffman wrote:I'd just like to mention, about my speaker for the dead role, i can converse with anyone who is dead, via adel to avoid me or them asking or revealing anything inappropriate. As far as i know, and according to Adel and Aborted Elephant, there could be various factions, and each one might not know their own objective, and whether they are scum or not.
From my role pm, the flavor at the front, and the kills itseemsclear to me that there are two factions. One which is trying to wake Adel up and the other that is trying to keep her trapped in her nightmare.
Night zero ended up seeing two scum and one townie get killed. That's my interpretation. So what am I missing?
Also, Porochaz. I think what you did is read the note from beyond the grave and see something that is "wrong" in it. Then realised you either said to much or were mistaken and ducked back down. Do you have a good townie reason for not telling us what that was? Maybe you should just articulate your thought process for us.
[/i]-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
Well I'm a little confused about what the problem is. At the moment there are four corpses and there's a plea to consider resurrectng him if no better option appears. We don't need to rely on the quotes from the dead to choose who to resurrect. We can just look at their alignments and raise the townies.
Your complaint seems based on the fact that the dead person claims tracker and you are a tracker already. I think I gotcha there.
But I'm at a loss to figure out what you think scum would be trying to accomplish with the note. It seems genuine.-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
On the subject of my guilt and innocence, this is an opportune time to quote the last line from my role pm (since Adel has said in rule 19 that we may quote anything we wish in this game):
This makes me think ICicero's Role PM wrote: Other players will naturally fear and loath you -- they will not understand you --you are Anubis.maybe a miller.-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
Well - since the cat's out of the bag pretty much anyway:
yes folks. I'm a resurrector.
And just so you know, I am also, basically a vigilante. It goes like this. If I target someone alive there's a chance I'll kill em. Target someone dead there's a chance I'll bring em back. The word "accidentally" is in my role with respect to targetting someone alive though. So I pressed Adel on whether I was some kind of CPR doc and she wasnt too forthcoming. But it basically looks like a resurrector vig combo.
QF - a miller is someone who looks guilty to a cop investigation. The only reason I'd doubt being a miller is because I know Adel hates cops so I wouldnt be surprised if there's no cop in the game. And with no cop there's no miller. It might just be there because of the duality of my role.
As for my alignment, it'll be patently obvious by who I choose to raise and how I choose to play. I'm all for waking Adel up and will play that way. The people I resurrect will also want to wake Adel up.
PS. People who want to wake up Adel are town. People who want her trapped in her nightmare are scum. It ain't that hard, people. She just shoved the word "do" in there.-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
Do you realise you're in Adel's Nightmare?
So here's the correspondence:My role PM wrote: Role PM
Role: You are anubis.
Win Condition: You do win if I wake up before the morning of the Eight day.
Alignment: You not prevent me from waking.
Night move: Each night you may PM me the name of a target player. If that player is dead, you may be able to bring them back to life. If another player sees you it will probably look to them like you are trying to suck your target's soul out through their breath. If your target is actually alive you may actually accidentally suck their soul out, leaving them extinguished and dead. Other players will naturally fear and loath you -- they will not understand you --you are Anubis.
Once the Night 1 deadline has expired, or I have received night moves from all players who have one, I will post an opening scene and open the game thread.
Then these two:Adel replying wrote:Night move: Each night youmayPM me the name of a target player.If that player is dead, you may be able tobring them back to life.If another player sees you it will probably look to them like you are trying to suck your target's soul out through their breath.If your target is actually aliveyou may actually accidentally suck their soul out, leaving them extinguished and dead. Other players will naturally fear and loath you -- they will not understand you --you are Anubis.
cicero emailing the mod wrote:Heya. I have my role PM but what do you mean by dead? Is my power to vig (percentage chance of success) and to resurrect?
Basically, someone gets lynched day one, can I resurrect them (% chance of success) at any time later in the game?
Or is this a quack doctor roll where "raise from the dead" means "doc protect", and, if they are not attacked, I may accidentally kill them?
Obviously I'm also a miller?
This rule 19 is fun.Adel wrote:I'm not trying to be snarky. The role PM you have is about as much information as I can give you, especially since you are not stupid. I can be more forthcoming in answers I post in the game thread.
cicero wrote:
Why be snarky. I caught all the important phrases. (I'm a lawyer and not so stupid, really) I was wondering what level of poetry was at work in the language and whether it corresponded to more common mafia roles. In this game "dead" could have a specialised meaning. But given your answer am I correct if I assume that the words have their normal mafia meaning? so:
dead - means dead. Out of the game. In other words I can attempt to resurrect any player who has been removed from the game at any previous time.
If I target someone who is alive (still eligible to vote and post) there is a chance I will kill them.
The reason I flagged it is because of the term "accidentally". Under the above circumstances one would not normally cause an accidental death.
And am I a miller?-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
/shrug. Be uncomfortable. The quotes are the real deal. The only thing to note is that the h is missing from the word eighth. And that appears to be on purpose or a mistake she fixed later. Check out Adel's post 2.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 156#948156
Check and see if the same mistake appears in each of yours.-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
Quick message from Cicero:
Learn to read, Elephant.
Win Condition: You do win if I wake up before the morning of the Eight day.
Translation: I win if Adel wakes up.
Alignment: You not prevent me from waking.
Translation: I don't want to do anything to prevent Adel from waking up.
I still don't get why the use of "do" and "not prevent" are making this hard for people.-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
roffman, the dead scum are aborted elephant and cold fairy. You should not cast their votes.
And also, Occult is scum. Occult, it was not obvious. I did not say "hey, I'm a resurrector or anything like it. All I apparently did was leave out "if there is a resurrector". Townside player could have let that float by to ensure that he didnt make noise for scum. You refused to go along with it twice and specifically called attention to me twice. That's role fishing and creating a target. Hamas rabbit was already on my list of probable flavor scum. What I'm betting is that you have an anti-town role but want to avoid trying to kill me yourself. Which means you may not be the same faction as some of the other scum. I'm not sure what's going on but I definitely see anti-town play. I'm happy with my vote.-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
Sorry Occult, I'm not buying it. You can either cover over a townie's mistake or you can exploit it. You chose to exploit it.
Now - the second half of your paragraph is irrelevant. I already had a target on my head by that point. People were beginning to speculate about me being a resurrector.
With respect to the first half, if you read it in context with the note we got from the beyond which postulated about the existence of a resurrector. We also have a speaker for the dead and dead players able to continue to play the game through him. So on what planet would we NOT talk about a resurrector? But that doesn't change anything. You could have let the "error" slide or you could have made damn sure there was a target on my head and this is what you did:
This is not how I would have played the situation if I was you and a town player at all.Occult wrote:
No. I'm almost positive (maybe not entirely, but a pretty good idea) I know what you do and because of that, I feel like I should believe Poro.cicero wrote:
No. I just addressed the letter. :S What are you on about?Occult wrote:Cicero..... did you just soft claim?-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
Occult wrote:
Like you covered Poro's Mistake?cicero wrote:Sorry Occult, I'm not buying it. You can either cover over a townie's mistake or you can exploit it. You chose to exploit it.
Porochaz said "That quote is wrong, I think it's from scum based on something only I know". This is fundamentally different from me responding to a point speculating on resurrection with speculation on resurrection. That situation invited probing because it articulated a falsifiable conclusion. Mine did not. Here, let me show it again:This is how you played the Poro situation, bitch (I'm just using Bitch as a form of punctuation in this case).
Note the post was made in the context of a discussion of why it might be important to know whether the writer was lying or not, which was premised on us making sure we didnt get tricked into possibly resurrecting the wrong person, which is what the writer was asking us to do if possible. I simply respond. And you look up and point and then when I deny it, you point again louder.cicero not long ago wrote:
Well I'm a little confused about what the problem is. At the moment there are four corpses and there's a plea to consider resurrectng him if no better option appears. We don't need to rely on the quotes from the dead to choose who to resurrect. We can just look at their alignments and raise the townies.
Your complaint seems based on the fact that the dead person claims tracker and you are a tracker already. I think I gotcha there.
But I'm at a loss to figure out what you think scum would be trying to accomplish with the note. It seems genuine.
My answer (and one of the main reasons I claimed):
No, they weren't. It is relevant.Now - the second half of your paragraph is irrelevant. I already had a target on my head by that point. People were beginning to speculate about me being a resurrector.
Streetflow wrote: Actually, stuff makes more sense now. Porochaz is a tracker of some sort, so he has some information we don't have or he saw why the message from Xiao was suspicious based on personal ingenuity. Cicero didn't act night 1 (assuming he has a role as a resurrector) because there was not anyone to resurrect yet - we don't know his alignment though.
See that there? You did that there.
Exactly, and yet from me discussing resurrection you leaped to the idea that I had to be it and said so. I didnt say I was the resurrector. At best I said something assuming there might be one. And you had to pipe up with a completely unnecessary "Cicero, did you just soft claim?". Sadly with the role name "anubis" things got a little obvious to people from then on.Occult wrote:
No it said IF, it does not explicitly state a resurector role.Cicero wrote:With respect to the first half, if you read it in context with the note we got from the beyond which postulated about the existence of a resurrector.
Course not. Yet you were damn sure what my role was. And damn sure you were going to make sure everyone knew it. You're being disingenuous, "bitch". Nothing I said was definitive but you did a "target: lock on: resurrector".
A Way to speak through a medium didn't definably mean a chance to be resurrected.We also have a speaker for the dead and dead players able to continue to play the game through him. So on what planet would we NOT talk about a resurrector? But that doesn't change anything. You could have let the "error" slide or you could have made damn sure there was a target on my head and this is what you did:
That's just facts.-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
So basically the case against Quantum Fruit is that her attempts to make us believe that scum is town is disingenuous?
Seeing as how I dont have the slightest problem differentiating town from scum in this game, I can go for that. Particularly since the dead scum just tried to sow doubt about my alignment as well. Maybe they all think they're masons. That would be hilarious.
Unvote. Vote Quantum Fruit-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
Well listen - I would love nothing more than to give you the benefit of the doubt and go bug someone else, but logical arguments are based on truth before they ever get to validity and you had some trouble ascertaining the basic truth of your role pm when I did not. So if you cannot understand the basic fact that Adel waking up is the town goal of the game, how can I trust you? I've even had a jackoff from beyond the grave fuck that up...-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
I suppose lynching shaft.ed isnt sporting.
unvote. Vote Dripping Goofball.
shaft.ed wrote:Cicero feels like town as he's bouncing his vote around like a pinball. This is a town tell for him in my experience.
DGB feels like scum as she's NOT bouncing her vote around like a pinball. This is a scum tell for her in my experience.-
-
cicero Oratoreador
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
Quantum Fruit: Hauling something out and claiming it's your PM at this point doesn't really prove much to me. In fact, just the opposite.
There's been more than enough evidence in the thread to allow you to copy it. Why should I believe you didn't just copy the role pm changes based on what's in the thread from myself and the now (alignment confirmed as town) Bloated Autocrat? What was so hard about your role PM the first time around?
Why shouldn't I lynch you right this very minute? Convince me.-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
Guardian - DGB's suggestion makes total sense AND we can afford it. I see very little good reason for dismissing this our of hand. I also wouldnt be at all surprised to see an alignment flip in this setup.
I can't, in good conscience, just refuse to test this hypothesis. Plus - if he's still town, I can wake the little fucker up
Vote Streetflo
But then DGB will you wonder if his alignment flipped if he got woken up twice?-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
SO DGB...
watcha up to, buttercup? I'd rilly rilly lik ta no, k.
-------------------------------------
Guardian, as much as I may believe you are sincere in your convictions here is what I know.
DGB targeted Streetflo. Streetflo lives. DGB wants to test if Streetflo is scum now. DGB may honestly wonder if you are scum as well as a result of my resurrection. Let's say we mislynch the both of you. We're still in a situation with a good bead on other scum.
What I mean is - that's an odd gambit for DGB to bother with as scum isnt it? A two day process to set guardian up for a mislynch? with lots of townies left? Arent you flattering yourself a trifle? Do you think she's scum now or misguided town?
Oh and at shaft.ed. You are replacing Occult. In this game I wont be trusting you any further than I can throw you.-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
I'm bored by the appeals to emotion, Guardian. It looks like defensiveness. I'm certainly persuadable but you arent remotely persuading me by jumping up and down and stamping your feet.
What perplexes me is why people aren't doing what DGB is doing. Contemplating the possibility of such a mechanism. The most sensible course may indeed be to re-lynch streetflo and if he's scum lynch guardian, and thereafter have the dead stay dead.
Now. Moving on from that. We have an interesting wrinkle given the evidence that DGB is the one who resurrected Streetflo in the first place. Might we learn much by lynching her instead? Two townside resurrectors? I think not. How about a scum resurrector and a town resurrector? Or something. Something is going on here. Something weird. On the other hand, The first night was a slaughter for scum. So maybe we just got lucky and there's just one scum floating around. The game isnt necessarily unbalanced in favor of town thereby necessitating alignment flip resurrection.
DGB - care to comment?
I'll be curious, by the way, to hear Quantum Fruit's answer to my question. Just in case anyone thinks I forgot about him.
And shaft.ed - Sadly I couldnt get buy in for your predecessor's lynch yesterday. That doesn't mean I have to trust you today. And you being possible scum doesn't mean I should ignore DGB's ideas and pursue you with blinders on. I could end up not lynching you OR streetflo, to town's detriment. So that quote retort there was just silly. Don't be silly, shaft.ed. Being silly is just... silly.
One thing this discussion suggests is that it might be better for the dead to stay dead in future.
PS. Streetflo - I would be gratified if just once you cried out for "Braaaaaaaaaains". Common courtesy, really.
(and on that note: click here)-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
Please explain why you guys feel keeping streetflo alive and not resolving this is so crucial to the game?
Please explain how you would balance a game with two (two) townside resurrectors?
DGB - Whether streetflow is resolved or not, unless we have a LYLO situation you and I should not resurrect anymore.-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
Im not much persuaded by Guardian.
Adel has pretty much already said she won't use a %mechanism in a mod note.
And Guardians number four seems to be trying to argue against a reasonably inferable game twist with a less reasonably inferable game twist.
DGB what do you think of the idea that we kill Streetflo and then not use our powers anymore.
Guardian - how about we have it both ways. We'll lynch streetflo and I'll attempt to kill Quantum Fruit with my bear hands in the night. Seriously. Let's talk about me just ripping that tatoo right off Adel's sleeping arm.
Have our cake and eat it to?
What say you all?-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
OK DGB,
You still havent promised me not to resurrect anybody anymore. I am making that promise.
All the scum need to be dead by day eight. We may have DGB or myself as some kind of cult recruiter who raises dead. If you think I'm that instead of DGB feel free to kill me int he night. I'm living on borrowed time anyway and refuse to resurrect any more.
Two scum are dead. There is a third scum out there and maybe DGB or me as a dangerous cult recruiter. She may not even know she is one. *I* may not know I is one.
Since we have a very good handle on who the last scum likely are, I am not inclined to keep bringing people back from the dead. It is entirely possible that DGBs strategy is designed to help run out the clock until the "Eight" day. I hadnt considered that but should have.
This is an order of operations problem. :/-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto
What if Adel never planned around two scum lying dead at our feet night zero?
Basically the game is the same. We hunt scum. If the number of dead scum equals 4 and the game isnt over, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Besides what do you care? Long as you live to the end, you win, right? You are suddenly saying "we" like you're on the town's side now?
Anway, what's the application of your statement. How should we behave differently. That isnt clear to me. You are saying "Ah... but Cicero..." but I don't understand the relevant play implications.-
-
cicero Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Oratoreador
- Posts: 3328
- Joined: July 27, 2007
- Location: Toronto