Mini 2032: Children of Hurin Mafia - Game Over

[Nero Cain]

Dude man its been like this for awhile. ur just pitching a fit b/c u aren't getting your way and u aren't getting the idol worship u want.

[Nero Cain]

tell me about FAQ, Maria.

[Nero Cain]

a girl of few words

[Nero Cain]

pls mod kill tor

[Nero Cain]

Two hours till FAQ's next prodge. HYPE!

[Nero Cain]

Two hours till FAQ's next prodge. HYPE!

A day isn't 20 hours, fucking moron.

[Nero Cain]

y don't u scumread him?

[Nero Cain]

Literally just lynch anyone at this point. This is boring

maybe you should stop vanity voting and vote either FAQ or join the CJ mislynch wagon that FAQ wants to hop on once more town join. Or even Wisdom.

[Nero Cain]

oh, he's @ L1 now with Kokichi's vote. Claim time bro.

[Nero Cain]

Who'd you target last night?

[Nero Cain]

just for the sake of the argument, why does him being a watcher make it "not make sense" to want you dead?

[Nero Cain]

literally in the above post

but that's saying he believes your role. A town him could theoretically not believe your role.


Everyone's going to claim a pr here. Might have a token VT. Part of me says we should MC but naw.

I agree that his getting upset when he was asked to claim his target was bad.

[Nero Cain]

hammer?

[Nero Cain]

i mean, i didn't really expect you to hammer. Here's hoping this flips scum.

[Nero Cain]

I think if QT flips scum then I'd want Tor maybe.

Though Creature claiming a FN type role and targeting FAQ gives me the heebies (assuming he flips scum)

[Nero Cain]

oh man, i forgot Gamma was even in the game.

[Nero Cain]

just to clarify-you are told random info about the game and then you are able to send a PM one time in the game?

[Nero Cain]

How is that a scumslip, Creature?

[Nero Cain]

@ nancy

-friendly neighbor

@creature

-FAQ claimed that you sent him a PM last night telling him that you are town. That's like exactly how a FN works so....

[Nero Cain]

how do you know that Creature target you?

He sent me a message that said he wanted to know that I am town.

*that he was town.

[Nero Cain]

Nancy, send it to me.

[Nero Cain]

Who is scum if he's scum and who is scum if he isn't?

[Nero Cain]

in addition to my other ability, I can post once after death.

[Nero Cain]

No, they don't. They have been played and don't want to realize it.

Who have we been played by?

[Nero Cain]

you have to be an excavator to get any type of information out of him. Like he's prob scum but on the off chance that he's town he should really think about maybe trying to be helpful and come off pro-town.

[Nero Cain]

its not just the stuff about the claim, FA, ppl were asking you multiple questions in the thread and you just kinda ignored them all and I just didn't really feel like you were scumhunting, it felt like you were throwing down votes. You barely talked about half the playerlist.

[Nero Cain]

nancy now we're kindof on the same wavelength: assume gamma is scum, and read nero's posts. You cant tell me you don't see him as a gamma buddy. Even when he posited kokichi, myself and cj are town he failed to automatically poe to gamma.

but what if Gamma isn't scum?

[Nero Cain]

but I'm asking you. You're now pushing me as a gamma buddy so if Gamma greens then it's up to you to figure things out-not for me to tell you what to do.

[Nero Cain]

but you dodged ME first bro.

[Nero Cain]

I assume you are talking about this post?

Wisdom/CJ/Kokichi

I'm starting to think none of this is scum. Though I might be up for some policies.

I mean, Gamma wasn't in HER POE list and I was clearly talking about her POE list. Why would I mention Gamma?

[Nero Cain]

I'm p sure just posts and doesn't really think.

[Nero Cain]

no nero, you still havent provided a scumread for when fa flips town

I mean I just got done talking about being suspicious of TOR and I am down with a CJ PL. I mean, I asked you who was scum and then you dodged me so...

[Nero Cain]

Nancy leave the weeb vi alone. I really don't think he's scum just very very bad.

[Nero Cain]

its prob like Tor/a50 if neither FA or CJ are scum.

[Nero Cain]

lol at nero trying to get people away from gamma while arguing with gamma

I mean, he might mean this one but I mean why do I have to scumread Gamma just b/c he attacked me?

[Nero Cain]

how do you feel about a mass claim tomorrow Nancy?

[Nero Cain]

Wisdoms play is absolutely horrible and I can understand why you think he's scummy but I skimmed some scum games and I felt like when he's scum he's more aimless and throws his vote around and his stick in the mud tunnel seems more like his bad town self. Thoughts?

[Nero Cain]

Nero avoids scumreading gamma like the plague even when poe leads straight to him

Why do I have to have the same POV as you?

I mean, I think the guy is fairly useless but he was also fairly useless in Heros so he just seems fairly null to me.

I guess I just need more than "nk puts his buddy @ L1 so his buddy can hammer" Do you have any other reasons that Gamma is scummy or is that the sole case?

He now came up with tora and almost being scum despite both being pretty obvtown

yes, scum can't appear townie. Nope. I might be wrong on a50 but I still suspect Tor.

[Nero Cain]

Null is poe material.

ok and?

[Nero Cain]

I made a POE list?

[Nero Cain]

Why not just quote it and prove me wrong? I need the heat anyways.

[Nero Cain]

I'm pushing my scumreads. Why should I push a null read instead? And your whole thing is that I'm scum with Gamma. What happens if Gamma isn't scum?

[Nero Cain]

I mean I just got done asking you what else Gamma is scummy for and your like...idk...zero'd in on this "nk bussed". Like, sell me.

[Nero Cain]

y is my not pushing Gamma scummier than Maria?

@WiS

[Nero Cain]

keep assuming drawn out fights are tvt

Am I still scum if Gamma flips town?

Why did you ignore my request to tell me what else he's scummy for besides the L-1.

[Nero Cain]

I'm not actually calling Wisdom scum

[Nero Cain]

People call my fights with scum tvt all the time

Maybe this should tell you that you don't have a very good argument style and or good points.

[Nero Cain]

@Gamma-

what are your thoughts on Wis tunneling me for not pushing you?

Still around Nancy?

[Nero Cain]

I think it’s a fair thought process,

y is it fair? It's just a "I think Gamma is scummy so you have to think that too and if you don't then YOU must be scum with him!"

[Nero Cain]

What did Almost50 do this game?

He pushed some derpy "scumtells" and has been almost exclusively tunneling Wisdom slot.

[Nero Cain]

yeah, I'm not.

[Nero Cain]

Well I agree that some of your posts defending me would look bad if I were scum

but you know I'm not scum with you so you know that Wis is atleast wrong on me and that he may or may not be wrong on you. Like I guess in a way I could see Wis truly believing that you are scum and me not hard scum reading you so I must be your buddy.

[Nero Cain]

lol at nero trying to get people away from gamma while arguing with gamma

I mean, he might mean this one but I mean why do I have to scumread Gamma just b/c he attacked me?

*THONKING*
I hope you see my POV in Heroes Wanted better now

What was this about btw?

[Nero Cain]

I'll lol if this was 2 scum and we just lynched the 2nd.

[Nero Cain]

better catchup fast

[Nero Cain]

gamma or kokchi?

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: Kokichi

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: Wisdom

Why?

[Nero Cain]

Don't you lurk and not post as town?

[Nero Cain]

if Gamma flips scum I'm ok with taking my mislynch but you'll have to figure out who his buddy is. I think its kinda disgusting and hypocritical that I'm Gamma's buddy but the person that's actually hard defending him is town. Though you did kinda lightly call Maria scum at one point but you've also said you aren't scum reading her. It's kinda a mess.

I hope Gamma flips town and that I'm not misclearing Wisdom b/c lets be honest, if Gamma flips town then that means he's 0-2 (or 0-3 if you count FAQ) and I guess you could look at it as a classic "push town (Gamma and I) bus buddy" (Maria)

[Nero Cain]

but then again Ceejay is prob scum.

Kokchi/ceejay?

[Nero Cain]

Wisdom

, pretend Gamma flips town. Who is scum?

[Nero Cain]

(Kokichi/Gamma/Ceejay)

though apparently she's not hard town reading Gamma anymore so eh....

[Nero Cain]

I only voted faq cause nothing was going on

Maybe its cause I just played with scum him. When i was his partner he didnt play with much emotion

but the posts here were very town to me

which of his posts were towny?

[Nero Cain]

Heroes Wanted and just my own memory.

[Nero Cain]

I only voted faq cause nothing was going on

Maybe its cause I just played with scum him. When i was his partner he didnt play with much emotion

but the posts here were very town to me

which of his posts were towny?

[Nero Cain]

no, he's saying that FAQ's post in THIS game were towny.

[Nero Cain]

just because you disagree with my logic I don't get why you wouldn't have said so sooner.

have we not already established that if Wisdom doesn't get his way he throws a temper tantrum and calls you scum?


Let's play devil's advocate though, why was Nancy town?

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: Ceejay

-Right head

and?

[Nero Cain]

To be frank the worst scum is a doormat he wasn't a doormat here

I don't think I really agree with this. He seemed plenty capable of pushing in our last game together.

[Nero Cain]

So maybe you/ceejay? mmmm that doesn't seem to click either.

how so?

I think that self hammer was planned with scum on the wagon

how could they "plan it" unless they have day talki? I mean yeah, NK bussing Pork there and Pork self hammering is a thing but I don't think it was planned.

Nero begs me to get on FAQ then uses weak meta to justify vote parking me

"Its Nero's fault that I voted FAQ, nope, not gonna take any responsibility."

[Nero Cain]

OOF!

Wisdom said that exact same thing in Deathnote-he was scum.

[Nero Cain]

Creature is like way more snarky then he usually is, its really weirding me out.

[Nero Cain]

it means that you aren't playing your normal game at least IMO so you've either changed your playstyle or you are playing differently b/c scum. This wasn't a very hard conclusion.

[Nero Cain]

yes, gamma attacks me and I didn't immediately OMGUS vote him. Must be scumbuds. :/

[Nero Cain]

@mod

-I concede town wins.

[Nero Cain]

Ok if she checks nero I'm fine with dying

^
knows I'm town.

[Nero Cain]

vote:ceejay

[Nero Cain]

he sent FAQ a thing.

[Nero Cain]

but im confirmed town, whats the point in claiming?

[Nero Cain]

im already voting CJ, if you guys rather no lynch then thats fine too.

[Nero Cain]

y do I need to claim though?

[Nero Cain]

im confirmed town though. So it just looks like rolefishing to me.

[Nero Cain]

what if we no lynched? finding out my role and if its a threat would still be important. They also asked me to claim yesterday.

[Nero Cain]

idk yet.

I feel like Maria's parity cop could be fake since town seems loaded without her role. Like we had 4/5ish confirmed town-the ic and fn, the lovers are confirmed to each other and the night messenger could act like a FN? That's alot of confirms and I can sort of see a mod throwing in alot of protectives and going "ok, yeah that's the strength of this set up." Also, a watcher makes sense as in he was meant to watch conf town. but that's outguessing the mod and is a slippery slope.

She also kinda makes sense as scum with Gamma b/c she kept saying to trust her on her Gamma read.

OTOH

I feel like MEME could be scum b/c TW's white knight of the Tora slot and push on FFT was really scummy. I could also see Nancy parroting the fuck out of me. Their continued asking me to full claim doesn't make a ton of sense to me and their claimed role netting us nothing but useless and easily gained information could easily be faked.

I guess I kind of lean Maria but I don't think the Meme slot is all that town.

Who you got and y?

[Nero Cain]

I'm a hider.

[Nero Cain]

kolchi
kolchi
cj
no one

[Nero Cain]

you hava am inno on me so....

also im not weak so...

[Nero Cain]

I'm pretty sure that all a hider does is hide and become bulletproof.

[Nero Cain]

vote:Maria

I feel like Maria's parity cop could be fake since town seems loaded without her role. Like we had 4/5ish confirmed town-the ic and fn, the lovers are confirmed to each other and the night messenger could act like a FN? That's alot of confirms and I can sort of see a mod throwing in alot of protectives and going "ok, yeah that's the strength of this set up." Also, a watcher makes sense as in he was meant to watch conf town.

I think the setup makes her claim unlikely

[Nero Cain]

no it doesn't.

Also, there's a supposed inno on me and this is a confirmed no GF game.

Is it possible your game has any of the following bastard roles or mechanics? No

so...whats the explanation for the inno? And why does Maria, as a town cop, ignore that?

[Nero Cain]

Also, there's a supposed inno on me and this is a confirmed no GF game.

where is that confirmed?

She targeted me yesterday and has repeatedly said that she has an inno on all 3 of us.

[Nero Cain]

A pure Normal Hider is, perhaps paradoxically, a substantially weaker role than the Weak variants. In the best case a Normal Hider is conditionally Bulletproof: by hiding behind players who are unlikely to be killed, such as the scummiest looking player, the Hider will effectively protect itself.

this is me btw

[Nero Cain]

eh, I rather not game throw. Meme can hammer me when they get on but I'm not flipping scum and its prob Maria so ok.

[Nero Cain]

Why? You think im scum so what does it matter? You've either won as scum or lost as town.

[Nero Cain]

Wisdom doesn't think im town, he's busy being the 4th scum.

I hid behind CJ b/c he's scum and he didn't even claim on d2. Also, its not like my role is an investigation ability anyways but if you are voting me for ignoring a supposed inno...so you are you.

[Nero Cain]

like he was lynched the day he claimed (and lynched) so there was no way for me to know that he was a doctor before I hid behind him.

[Nero Cain]

pedit: wait who did you hide behind last night again Nero?

no one

[Nero Cain]

He claimed protective like at the start of d2 didn't he.

im p sure that he only said that he doubted the claim. You'd have to read in and use hindsight to get "he's claiming protective"

[Nero Cain]

GG Maria

[Nero Cain]

I mean, I think you are scum and nothing going to change Wisdoms mind and if said some things that were silly and can be taken as "scum that's trying to be manipulative" so I'm just ready for Meme to end the gameand give you the win.

[Nero Cain]

@memee

pls hammer me

[Nero Cain]

naw, he didn't.

[Nero Cain]

Where are you Meme?!?

[Nero Cain]

I'm also Mablung.

[Nero Cain]

see, told you maria was scum. she's trying to egg you onto hammering me.

[Nero Cain]

how so?

[Nero Cain]

and that stops Maria from being a GF and faking cop how?

[Nero Cain]

kolchi

[Nero Cain]

but im not scum.

[Nero Cain]

like your so desperate for my mislynch. Seems super scummy.

[Nero Cain]

@ mods

What does Town Night Messenger do?

[Nero Cain]

but what messages? Is it the same as a FN or does it have investigative abilities like an amnesic cop?

[Nero Cain]

Wisdom always beats me in a 1v1 b/c he was either town that was right on Gamma or scum that bussed his buddy.

[Nero Cain]

I think you're scum who slipped then conceded and then changed your mind

but that's the thing, I didn't slip. I don't investigate.

[Nero Cain]

So because he always beats you you're wanting to take a shot at me? Alright then

no. I think you're scum for using a false premise to vote me with. I mean, ok yeah...I can see the logic in "Maria's a claimed cop and thus the claim is real b/c godfather" and maybe that makes me wrong. (What's stopping a mod from making a GF with no cop?) but all these confirmed roles and then a cop just seems a bit much.

[Nero Cain]

while a hider with a doc and a bg makes total sense, right?

Why couldn't a game have 3 varying layers of protection?

[Nero Cain]

Left Head in my PT:

I was about to hammer Nero myself.

Nero if you're town you better town the f up cause otherwise I think I'm gonna hammer you in approximately 6-9 hours after I get home and can properly reread some stuff.

In the mean time, walk me through some timeline stuff. Did Wisdom replace in and start pushing Gamma before or after the watcher flip? i.e. if he was GF did he start bussing the goon after the anti-GF investigative was already dead? or was FA_Q still alive then?

-rh

feel free to hammer but you won't win unless you are scum.

[Nero Cain]

Do you see how having a doctor bodyguard hider is a bit much from my pov?

Sure but that's not what you voted me for.

[Nero Cain]

y not do the no lynch plan that meme came up with?

[Nero Cain]

although Wisdom bussing Gamma and then sheeping you blindly on the slip that wasn't a slip could be a scum thing.

[Nero Cain]

Well I mean, if you're voting me your voting town so you are either scum or wrong.

Is there any reason that you think a BG is more likely in this setup than a hinder?

[Nero Cain]

vote:no lynch

[Nero Cain]

im saying that if he's town then he's game throwing.

[Nero Cain]

[Nero Cain]

no, Nancy town reads me unless she's scum.

[Nero Cain]

cant wait to laugh at nancy hardtownreading you

but Nancy was right and you are wrong.

[Nero Cain]

I'm leaning Nero as well

why?

[Nero Cain]

And Maria's result is condemning too

how so? it's no different than the result on you and Wisdom.

[Nero Cain]

Nero can you explain the development of your read of Koki from 658 to 1834?

-rh

I had no read on Kolchi and I was sheeping Maria to see where things went. I legit started scum reading him b/c I felt like

Why is everyone so scummy

and the lead up to that was scum flail.

[Nero Cain]

it's also just a little bit surprising that nero broke 300 posts as scum in this game when he's usually a bit less powerscummy

-rh

maybe 'cause I'm not scum *gasp*

[Nero Cain]

yeah, it's prob Wisdom. Too bad I'm getting lynched.

[Nero Cain]

Why do you even want to lynch me, RH?

[Nero Cain]

Why does Wisdom go from "I doubt there's a GF in the game"

The third option is jeanne went bastard and threw in a gf to deal with the op town

but id like to think thats not a thing

"oh nm, there is one."

VOTE: nero

feels damn good to be right

[Nero Cain]

I mean my "slip" that I'm being voted for wasn't even a slip.

[Nero Cain]

804 has nothing to do with baiting a nk.

[Nero Cain]

OK what's going on in 804 then?

I'm just frustrated. It's not all that uncommon and I've done it before as town b/c I lose my cool and get tired of being scum read for wank reasons.

How many times have you actually played with me?

[Nero Cain]

Do you feel like using one game as my baseline is proper play?

Have you read any other games?

[Nero Cain]

Well, she's voting me b/c she thinks a hider and a weak hider function the same way and thus I "slipped" when I voted CJ and didn't call bullshit on her cop claim. She's said she has no reason to think mine or Wisdoms claim is more or less believable than the other.

[Nero Cain]

how does my claim not make sense? Why shouldn't I have claimed the role I was given?

[Nero Cain]

oh man, i was busy doing a post.

GG Wisdom.

[Nero Cain]

Not sure what to do here. If Maria won't agree to pushing Wisdom in to being leashed on me then it's likely I just get killed tonight. I feel like that's the objectively best play here but if it's just going to prolong the game and Nero ends up getting lynched anyway then I may as well hammer. Weird mylo...

LH has been busy lately so I'll get some thoughts from him but I think basically everyone is leaning Nero here so I guess we probably just hammer there tonight.

I do really have concerns here but it's basically 50/50 in my mind and I think there's a case to be made for either slot. Since Wisdom won't be leashed and Maria is set on Nero... meh. Guess I can BLAME EVERYONE ELSE if it's a loss, right? Not really my style tho.

Nero's vote on Koki during the Gamma wagon BOTHERS me. I don't like being bothered by something in a game-ending vote. But it also seems like it's sorta out of my hands. It doesn't make Nero town. But it makes me uncertain he's scum. Which is why I wanted to gamble on the prophecy... but that doesn't matter if Nero is forced to kill me if he's scum since otherwise he hits Wisdom, and Wisdom definitely kills me if he's scum.

-rh

I mean, it's prob Wisdom I guess. Like you've already pointed out that he strongly busses as scum and it's not a stretch that he does that here. I was likely setup d2 when Gamma attacked me and I responded and there was a back and forth and Wisdom used it as a way to call it scum theatre. At one point, I was willing to get lynched over Gamma but Wisdom refused to vote me while still calling me scum. If he believed I was scum there was no reason he shouldn't have been willing to vote me. He knew I was flipping town and needed Gamma to flip scum before he could push me. In 2289 he doubts the existence of a GF but as soon as I "slip" that thinking goes out the window. And my slip isn't even a slip. I'm basically a conditional bulletproof and not an investigative PR like Maria thinks I am.

IF

I was a weak hider then yeah, its a slip but I'm not a weak hider so it's not a slip. Both Maria and Wisdom are experienced players so for both of them not understanding the difference between a weak hider and a hider seems impossible to me. Like sure, I have to look up roles from time to time so it's not like I expect ppl to remember everyone but even AFTER its been pointed out that a hider and a weak hider are two diffrent roles they still refuse to budge. One of these two is scum.

a hider's main function is to confirm people as town

like this is just the manipulative bullshit that comes from scum.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Hider

I mean, I guess from Maria's POV even if she accepts that I'm just a normal hider and not a weak hider she still thinks its bullshit that I hid behind a guy that claimed protective and eh...I just missed that or ignored that b/c I thought he was scum bullshitting.

Wisdom doesn't want to be leashed to Memme b/c he needs Maria alive tomorrow. I mean Maria has stated that she will 100% vote me, while Meme is still likely to vote me there's a small chance that they could vote Wisdom.

[Nero Cain]

Welcome, Nero Cain, to Children of Hurin Mafia!

We have to be careful.....


You are Mablung, a

Town Hider

.

At night, you may hide behind another player. You cannot be killed directly if you are hiding, but if the player you are hiding behind gets killed, you will also perish.

You win when all scum are dead and at least one member of town is alive.

Please confirm your role by replying to this PM.

[Nero Cain]

Yes, instead of trying to convince Maria it was Wisdom you went for the easy thing and you didn't even give intent.

[Nero Cain]

^
scum

[Nero Cain]

Maria's role has to be real b/c GF they said.

[Nero Cain]

apparently. meme got the prophecy that there was a godfather in this game so their logic was Maria had to be telling the truth b/c a godfather means there's a cop.

[Nero Cain]

apparently. meme got the prophecy that there was a godfather in this game so their logic was Maria had to be telling the truth b/c a godfather means there's a cop.

the important thing is that I'm glad Nero lost

so really this is like a win for me

My thoughts

you're hot garbage.

[Nero Cain]

no