mini 2051: tree's dump blitz - game over !!!

[Enter]

Speaking of things that don't matter, everyone's vote should be somewhere, because it's one of the best indicators of reads in the game.

I'll start. VOTE: NSG

Discuss something other than meta, pls.

[Enter]

I said "meta," and I mean "theory."

[Enter]

just gut i feel like this might be one of those games where most top posters are town and scum are in the lurkers

I might be biased here, but that’s a terrible theory.

Also doesn't add anything given we're only a day in.

@Trekkie :

Who would you lynch knowing what you know?


Taly says a lot of agreeable things and I think that's getting him towncred w/ other players. Correct me if I'm wrong.

@Taly:

you have two people you can save from being considered for lynch today and we can't talk about them for the rest of the day. Who are they and why?

P-Edit:

@Enter

looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

I'm looking forward to hearing yours. Place a non-RVS vote please, or justify what you have.

[Enter]

Speaking of things that don't matter, everyone's vote should be somewhere, because it's one of the best indicators of reads in the game.

I'll start. VOTE: NSG

Discuss something other than meta, pls.

@Enter

looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

This is funny considering your vote is still on Clemency who you voted for because :

Can we get this party started?

sounds dumb

I'm going to VOTE: Clemency because that's just rude.

The only reason my vote's not on you right now is because I doubt it would have much effect on your response.

[Enter]

I feel so weak and powerless

[Enter]

I honestly just wanted you to post. I'll look over what you've said.

UNVOTE:

[Enter]

Jury if you're paying attention at all, please just lynch Trekkie. I don't think I've seen anyone add more fake stuff to the game thread, and I honestly feel like I'm being mocked for my frustration in a town lynch via 124.

[Enter]

Trekkie, pls post your likely scum pools.

[Enter]

also VOTE: trekkie

[Enter]

Jury if you're paying attention

at all

See this? Stop it. Stop talking about the jury. Stop talking to the jury.

Jury, trekkie's play is legitimately detrimental to town. He's distracting, avoiding any actually useful questions.

[Enter]

Getting to this question, though, since I saw it yesterday.

(If I missed any direct questioning, please quote.)

you have two people you can save from being considered for lynch today and we can't talk about them for the rest of the day. Who are they and why?

Based off skimming:

Tony

and

apthet (apthet is the stronger thought here)

Tony

is unconfident here, as I haven't dissected his posts much post-

Clem

flip. But I get the idea that he's evaluating different situations instead of pushing reads, they don't feel forced.

Also, I was questioning my read on

North

when he posed his vote. If lynching him went out of the question, I wondered how that would change people's posts.

apthet

spills town. I wish I can do a bit better than soul-read, but each post they made is clear, shows them thinking beyond just surface level, and looking at each person. I liked that they prodded

xyzzy

in 131 and 132, and these posts made me feel more comfortable they're town. They also reevaluate their reads; and if I had to townbloc someone, this would currently be my only choice - but it's something.

These reads may change with a full read, but this is my thinking.

I strongly share your reads.

@Jury

, I think a solid townpool to avoid at this point is Taly/ Apthet/ and Tony.

Lynch pool I'd say Trekkie/NSG - The former is just spamming the thread and completely useless, even if he flipped town for some reason (I don't think he will, I rarely see play this dodgy and evasive from town) and the latter seems to spend more time arguing game theory and actual intent. I'll reread and case for you in maybe the next two to three hours?

^ @

rest of town

this is where i sit on my reads, if you disagree, say something soon, but I think this is a pretty commonly agreed upon townbloc/lynchpool

[Enter]

Taly came across as a pretty strong town read from most players, and I agreed w/ most players, so I was looking for his help to establish a town pool we could help prevent things like yesterday, where the jury just lynches someone from out of nowhere.

[Enter]

Mafia is a jigsaw puzzle. The players are the pieces, and every piece has a single slot that it fits. The optimal townie wants to put the puzzle together to find out which pieces fit in the mafia slots and which pieces fit in the town slots. To do this, the player will often put different combinations of reads together, push their reads (and push the puzzle pieces together) and look at it to see if they fit. A good townie asks questions, but more importantly, relevant questions, and to put reads together the vt MUST be actively trying to rearrange pieces that don't fit, which is why you often see very reactive play from town, with constantly changing reads.

The mafia have no good reason to do this. They want to look town, but they often forget what it means to be town. Like trekkie, they only partially apply themselves. Instead of pushing pieces together and rearranging them when they don't fit, you will often see them place a piece in a pile of other pieces and then leave it for everyone else to figure out what is going on there. Contrary to a town player, the mafia knows what the completed puzzle looks like, so often you'll see a mafia declare that pieces go together, but rarely will they declare that they SHOULD go together, because they already know the outcome.

Trekkie sits with his pieces in a pile. When prodded strongly, he will take a piece and put it somewhere on the table. Maybe it's in relation to another piece. If it is, it rests gently on top. There is no investigation as to whether or not the pieces actually fit together, just a declaration that he did as he was asked, he helped put the puzzle together. After resting his pieces on top of each other, he sits proudly and points at what he did, and then proceeds to ask the other players inane questions like "why did you pick the red piece?" "why are all the pieces that Enter picks have round edges?" even if all the pieces have round edges. "why is the table so big?" "why is the sky blue?" Every time another player asks a decent question or makes a decent comment "Hmm, what if you used this piece instead of that one?" or "I think this one might fit here," trekkie is always right there to follow up with "why did you ask this question this way?" or "what does it mean to think two pieces fit together?"

I have never seen a player seem so terribly and completely convinced that they look like they're scumhunting or tunneling when it appears to me as if they are doing nothing like it. Nothing about his play seems optimal to town in the slightest.

That's why I have a trekkie scumread. I'm not particularly interested in answering his half-assed questions he asks merely for the show of posting content, but if you think it would improve everyone else's chances of seeing where taly fits, I'll do it in a heartbeat.

[Enter]

@Trekkie Please show me how you've been tunneling me or even pushing me in the slightest.

[Enter]

You could've summarized your scumread on

Trekkie

in 3 sentences. The anecdote here feels unjustified and too theoretical.

156 seems disingenuous in the fact that you completely dismiss

Trekkie's

engagement with you in favor of your scumread based off only several pages of gameplay.

Your hard-lined confidence is unwarranted, and geared toward creating a rigid dichotomy between yourself and

Trekkie

.

VOTE: Enter

Answer their questions.

I'm not particularly interested in answering his half-assed questions he asks merely for the show of posting content, but if you think it would improve everyone else's chances of seeing where taly fits, I'll do it in a heartbeat.

Explain this, too.

I had already said it in three sentences, and you asked again for my reasoning. Not quite sure what the fuck you're trying to get from me.

[Enter]

Unorganized thoughts...

Like I genuinely see several of

Trekkie's

posts to be parroting another post to an extent in the thread.

But the reach and lack of rationality behind the scumread reasons there don't register as a town-led push at all, and if

Trekkie

is scum and everyone whose pushed him is town

(North, xyzzy, Enter, apthet)

I'm honestly floored because I don't see these types wagons ever flip red.

And I'm really bothered by the fact that I'm highly townread in the sense that "oh, this could be

Taly's

playstyle" or "everyone seems to agree this guy is town" - like I'm a 1000% scum-buddying magnet, wtf. (Namely looking at

North

and

Enter

)

I also keep reading

Tony

and

North's

and getting a lot of words but much less content that I can't discern their motives quite effectively.

Xyzzy

,

apthet

both make the most sense as town... and I like

Enter

townbloccing, but I also think the townbloc on

apthet

and

Tony

based off solely what I said is odd, considering he hasn't mentioned them in his own reads.

Deepwolfing paranoia suggests I should re-evaluate

xyzzy

soon too, but a good bit of meta tells me he's town, and I like his posts overall.

*ISO-skim*

...

Tony

can stick as town for now.

Scum-buddying isn't even a 50% chance to flip scum and you should know that.

I'm not making any excuses for your playstyle, your posts seem town-motivated, and nothing there seems scum-motivated.

There isn't reach or lack of rationality behind my scumread of Trekkie, and you should know that too. The fact that I gave you my reasons for my scumread on trekkie and then you asked again, and I gave you my reasons again, and you're trying to lynch me now is baffling to me though.

[Enter]

I haven't said anything more about Tony or Apthet because I agreed with your reads on them. If you had dropped two reads for the town bloc that I didn't like or agree with, I would have asked and prodded you and them until I was satisfied.

Someone who thinks Trekkie is town, preferably Taly, please link me to a single post where Trekkie pushes his reads or asks me a legitimate question that he wants answered, because when I go back and read his ISO I see no such thing, and I'm starting to think Taly only believes that there are questions to be answered because Taly says there are. Trekkie has made claims of tunneling me, too, and I'd really like if you could point where he does that, Taly. So find me a post since I have entered the game where he pushes a read, asks a question that you think I should answer that I have not already, and one where he has tunneled me, like he has claimed to do. I know this requires you to actually read his posts when you defend him this time, and I'm sorry for that.

Also, I tend to agree with you, that flash wagons don't usually flip red, but Trekkie's wagon has stood the test of time, two days specifically, so that should ping you as strange, because that doesn't happen often.

Finally,

@The Jury

While I would very much like to be rid of Trekkie and his endless pile of spam, just because it would be easier to think straight afterwards, but NSG seems to be in everyone's scum pool right now, so that should be pretty strongly noted by you, and they might perhaps be a better lynch for today.

[Enter]

I had already said it in three sentences, and you asked again for my reasoning. Not quite sure what the fuck you're trying to get from me.

More like 3 paragraphs of which 3 reasons were found in

since

my inquiry for clarification. 150

Now I'm reiterating a

second time

for you to respond to him since you're so certain

Trekkie's

scum. I'm trying to sort you both.

Nice dodge on avoiding the

"if it would improve everyone's chances of seeing where

taly

fits"

explanation prompt. Am I his buddy now?

I'm not posing rhetorical prompts and questions here.

Scum-buddying isn't even a 50% chance to flip scum and you should know that.

It can't be scum-buddying if it's town/town are townbloccing. I haven't seen a reason to think your townreads are genuine, since you asked and agreed with my opinion before giving any of your own reads.

If the

Trekkie

scumread truly isn't a reach, then break down your reasons and spell it out to me with bullet points and post links. Not a subjective theory on how you think scum and town would play in this game,

"Subjective" theory in how town and scum will play the game is the ONLY thing that people will ever base their scum and town reads off of, period.

Whenever someone does something, you ask yourself, is this consistent with what I think is town or with what I think is scum? Then you compare it to your "subjective" theory on what town and scum behave like.

I'm not going to make a quote wall of everything Trekkie has done, because my scumread on him isn't a simple few posts, it's a lack of a certain type of a post, and an excess of another type of post. Sure I'd be willing to quote his entire ISO to you, but that would be really boring, because I doubt you'd actually read that, either.

Trekkie has not played like he is town motivated. I've explained twice why I think this is not true. If you disagree, I encourage you to find an example otherwise and share your "subjective" theory on how town and scum behave.

while you note he's obvscum despite engaging with him.

One, I haven't been engaging w/ him recently, and two, didn't you JUST SAY that you engage with your scum reads (namely me?)

Nothing in this part of your post flows consistently with what has been happening in the game thread.

[Enter]

I see no point in a back and forth.

My vote's not moving form

Enter

until he stops cherry-picking what he wants to respond to with my posts, and actually answer my prompts and

Trekkie's

assertions/questions.

I haven't cherry picked shit. I just skimmed Trekkie's ISO and I'm almost dead certain you haven't read a single one of Trekkie's posts, but go ahead. Quote a single one of Trekkie's posts where he asks a legitimate question (i.e. "are you implying yesterday's lynch was a bad one?" doesn't count) that you think would be useful to answer.

[Enter]

Every "question" Trekkie has asked is answered by this right here:

Speaking of things that don't matter, everyone's vote should be somewhere, because it's one of the best indicators of reads in the game.

I'll start. VOTE: NSG

Discuss something other than meta, pls.

@Enter

looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Which I posted before he asked any of those questions. So since I have a feeling you're going to go back and quote every question he's asked since coming into the game thread and miss the fact that he's asking questions that I answered BEFORE he started asking them, I've quoted the response ahead of time. How does that answer all his questions?

Well, it is an example of one of the multiple places where I've asked him questions and he hasn't responded => it's an example of him being evasive.

Now I'm going to stop berating you for making the mistake you did, but I will let you try to prove yourself right. Please. Find a single post where Trekkie has pushed a read, asked a question that I haven't answered, or tunneled me since my entrance (posting me in the scum slot of his reads once doesn't count).

[Enter]

If you're really town then you need to seriously redefine how you determine reads via interactions in games.

It's baffling to me that you flipped your read on me because I won't quote his posts, and you won't quote his posts either. I wouldn't care if I didn't legitimately believe you were defending something that you hadn't read at all.

[Enter]

Like any of them? How about you go through all of his questions and say how they confscum him?

It's easy when he hasn't asked any questions that haven't been answered yet.

You'd know that if you went back and read the two pages.

[Enter]

He's not for sure confscum. I played with him recently and in a 3p lylo he opened with a vote. He flipped town, so it's possible he's just bad at mafia.

[Enter]

I'm curious how scum!Enter would deal with me flipping town if I'm lynched. I guess he would pass me off as a distraction that had to be gotten rid of anyway.

Literally this is what I'm envisioning with the incredible lack of depth in his reads and how he's painting your posts and himself through townbloccing.

I'm taking your failure to respond to my questioning not as you being a hypocrite (by asking me to quote posts and then failing to quote them yourself), but instead as you failing to find any and realizing you fell for the trap that was us discussing questions that haven't been answered when there really were none to begin with.

"lack of depth?" Really? I actually laughed when you said that. Just because you can't understand how I processed something because I processed something differently than you're used to seeing and you couldn't read and understand what it meant, doesn't make my post lacking in depth.

Just to humor you and to prove how beyond foolish you are for calling me out on something I haven't done (fail to answer useful questions from Trekkie when there were no useful questions from Trekkie), and because I'm starting to understand that you just can't comprehend my post and how it took far more effort and "depth of thought" to make that than it will to make my post-by-post, I will make a post-by-post. And I will answer every question from Trekkie, regardless of how absolutely lacking in "depth of thought" it is, particularly because it will point out how absolutely dumb you were for listening to him complain about questions that haven't been answered.

But my request for this is that, in the future, you don't call someone out for items you yourself can't follow up on (asking me to quote posts when you yourself won't do it) and use words that don't even make sense ("subjective theory") because they seem to make you think you sound smart.

[Enter]

@Enter

looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Asks for my thoughts immediately after I posted them, fails to answer the prompts I gave in my opening post, also low effort.

@Trekkie :

Who would you lynch knowing what you know?

No one at the moment since we have so little to go off of.

Literally a no effort post/evasive

The only reason my vote's not on you right now is because I doubt it would have much effect on your response.

Or a lynch for that matter.

No effort

I have no idea what's going on, but I hear there's judges around.

If they would like me to preform next, I can juggle, I can make stuff go boom, and I can shitpost.

If you want my townie traits, I guess I can gamesolve on the side.

Basically we play like we would normally, but the jury will have the final say on who is lynched.

No effort, useless.

Hi Bambi Jay!

Bambi Jay has been lynched ! she was a

townie

thank u for replacing ! : ^ )

Oof

No effort

I'm not one to doubt our honorable judges, but this lynch seems peculiar.

Clemency's only activity was an RVS vote back and forth with trekkie, who in contrast with his activity has been the most active player so far.

Was hoping to have something more to go on after a lynch, but this is pretty much a complete zero in the info department.

My thoughts exactly.

Parrot

i mean, even beyond it being pro-town, i'll still also argue that

it just makes it a more enjoyable game if the jury follows what we're saying

it's really not enjoyable to play a game where there's no connection between what you do in thread and what actually happens, and you don't just have to take it from me:

I feel so weak and powerless

Is it just me or do I keep hearing this? Of course the jury is listening to us! What do you think they're doing? Ignoring our discussions and throwing a dart at a board and lynching however the dart lands on? I feel like your upset that you have no control of the situation or the jury. Because as town this shouldn't be a concern knowing the jury is of course town. Do you think the jury has poor judgement?

Not questions asked to me, but I'll answer them anyways, because they're VITAL to sorting me and trekkie, apparently.

Yes, you keep hearing this.
The jury is listening to us and they lynched the biggest lurker in the game? Who was calling for her lynch?
Yes, people are upset because they have no control of the lynch or the jury. Yes, I know that's not what you said, but that's why people are upset.
Yes, I think the Jury's judgement is questionable in that the person they flipped did not tell us anything about the past day, but it's possible it was ok in that there is one less lurker? :/

And yes I do believe that their first lynch choice was semi poor do to the fact that it yielded very little info, but it's not like our fate is in the hands of babys with nuclear launch codes!

Low effort, practically useless, except it helps me answer one of his gripping and super important questions he asks later.

Jury if you're paying attention at all, please just lynch Trekkie. I don't think I've seen anyone add more fake stuff to the game thread, and I honestly feel like I'm being mocked for my frustration in a town lynch via 124.

Talk about fake stuff.

At least he's showing one post where he thinks NSG is scum.

Jury if you're paying attention at all, please just lynch Trekkie. I don't think I've seen anyone add more fake stuff to the game thread, and I honestly feel like I'm being mocked for my frustration in a town lynch via 124.

Also that post was meant for northsidedegal, however it could very well apply to you as well.

Same for me. This is the most effort he's put in as far as reads since I've replaced in.

Jury if you're paying attention

at all

See this? Stop it. Stop talking about the jury. Stop talking to the jury.

Completely useless post.

Trekkie, pls post your likely scum pools.

Right now my scum reads are you and northsidedegal.

xyzzy and tonymontana are town leans for me while apthet and taly are mixed.

I asked for scum pools, he doesn't give reasons, just two names. At least it's something.

Jury if you're paying attention

at all

See this? Stop it. Stop talking about the jury. Stop talking to the jury.

Jury, trekkie's play is legitimately detrimental to town. He's distracting, avoiding any actually useful questions.

Your not helping town by talking to a one way mirror. Also what "useful questions" have I avoided?

Both of these, saying "no one" to the lynch question is such a useless response.

@Trekkie :

Who would you lynch knowing what you know?

I'm looking forward to hearing yours. Place a non-RVS vote please, or justify what you have.

Here I asked you to move your vote of Clemency, which you still haven't done.

Speaking of things that don't matter, everyone's vote should be somewhere, because it's one of the best indicators of reads in the game.

@Enter

looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

This is funny considering your vote is still on Clemency who you voted for because :

Can we get this party started?

sounds dumb

I'm going to VOTE: Clemency because that's just rude.

The only reason my vote's not on you right now is because I doubt it would have much effect on your response.[/quote]

This one came after the quoted post, but you still haven't answered it.

@Trekkie Please show me how you've been tunneling me or even pushing me in the slightest.

Lynch pool I'd say Trekkie/NSG - The former is just spamming the thread and completely useless

Tunneling you is spamming and completely useless?

even if he flipped town for some reason (I don't think he will, I rarely see play this dodgy and

evasive

from town)

Where is this eveasive behavior? Your being evasive by not answering my initial question.

Your not helping town by talking to a one way mirror.

Also what "useful questions" have I avoided?

Where have you been tunneling me? You still haven't answered that question.

Please post this question you're talking about because I seem to have missed it in my multiple read throughs of your ISO.

so I was looking for his help to establish a town pool we could help prevent things like yesterday, where the jury

just lynches someone from out of nowhere.

What does this even mean? Are you saying it was a bad lynch? I wish it had been someone more active, but the chance of a scum being a lurker is there so the lynch wasn't pointless.

All you've done so far is talk/complain to the jury, order the jury to lynch me, and more recently you've assembled your own town block, and ordered the jury not to lynch them.

Yes, I was implying that. Didn't think I had to write that out for you, considering you yourself agreed w/ it.

And yes I do believe that their first lynch choice was semi poor do to the fact that it yielded very little info, but it's not like our fate is in the hands of babys with nuclear launch codes!

Making cases to the jury is the point of this game, and I'm not in "my town block" so I'm not even certain why you're frustrated w/ this.

Trekkie's 90 was a comically bad post. speck in my eye, plank in your eye etc etc etc

How was I being hypocritical?

Trekkie's 93 is such a bullshit noncommital

answer

. it's tempting to write off some of Trekkie's scummy behavior as just him being a somewhat new player who hasn't totally found his feet, but being unwilling to

answer

such a direct

question

like that isn't a good look.

What question? What answer? Did you mean to link a different post of mine?

The first question wasn't asked to me, but it's VITAL again, so here goes:
You claim to have unanswered questions and whine about how they're not being answered, and I've already quoted you multiple questions of mine you haven't answered.

And yes, I believe they did. I don't know the answer to this question, but it wasn't asked to me. This is actually a decent question, though.

Spoiler: Reply to Trekkie

Trekkie, pls post your likely scum pools.

Right now my scum reads are you and northsidedegal.

xyzzy and tonymontana are town leans for me while apthet and taly are mixed.

Oh...

is this because I townread your original scumread?

53

No you just seem too eager too label people town, and not eager enough to label people scum. Basically it looks like your having trouble getting scum reads which is something I tend to have trouble with when I'm scum.

Pretty sure he's already explained that he's town hunting. But whatever.

*cracks knuckles* Don't think I can't break down that wall post.

Low effort and useless.

Each quote-to-quote post that is being created, the more difficult it is becoming for the jury to filter out bullshit.

We just need another lynch now. We're 5 hours from the deadline if I'm reading the first-lynch timing correctly.

Jury please give me a few moments to reply to Enter before you lynch me if you are considering it.

Sure.

Mafia is a jigsaw puzzle. The players are the pieces, and every piece has a single slot that it fits. The optimal townie wants to put the puzzle together to find out which pieces fit in the mafia slots and which pieces fit in the town slots. To do this, the player will often put different combinations of reads together, push their reads (and push the puzzle pieces together) and look at it to see if they fit. A good townie asks questions, but more importantly, relevant questions, and to put reads together the vt MUST be actively trying to rearrange pieces that don't fit, which is why you often see very reactive play from town, with constantly changing reads.

The mafia have no good reason to do this. They want to look town, but they often forget what it means to be town. Like trekkie, they only partially apply themselves. Instead of pushing pieces together and rearranging them when they don't fit, you will often see them place a piece in a pile of other pieces and then leave it for everyone else to figure out what is going on there. Contrary to a town player, the mafia knows what the completed puzzle looks like, so often you'll see a mafia declare that pieces go together, but rarely will they declare that they SHOULD go together, because they already know the outcome.

Trekkie sits with his pieces in a pile. When prodded strongly, he will take a piece and put it somewhere on the table. Maybe it's in relation to another piece. If it is, it rests gently on top. There is no investigation as to whether or not the pieces actually fit together, just a declaration that he did as he was asked, he helped put the puzzle together. After resting his pieces on top of each other, he sits proudly and points at what he did, and then proceeds to ask the other players inane questions like "why did you pick the red piece?" "why are all the pieces that Enter picks have round edges?" even if all the pieces have round edges. "why is the table so big?" "why is the sky blue?" Every time another player asks a decent question or makes a decent comment "Hmm, what if you used this piece instead of that one?" or "I think this one might fit here," trekkie is always right there to follow up with "why did you ask this question this way?" or "what does it mean to think two pieces fit together?"

I have never seen a player seem so terribly and completely convinced that they look like they're scumhunting or tunneling when it appears to me as if they are doing nothing like it. Nothing about his play seems optimal to town in the slightest.

That's why I have a trekkie scumread. I'm not particularly interested in answering his half-assed questions he asks merely for the show of posting content, but if you think it would improve everyone else's chances of seeing where taly fits, I'll do it in a heartbeat.

Section one and two of this post are mafia theory.

Trekkie sits with his pieces in a pile

Null.

When prodded

strongly

Adjectives.

he will take a piece and put it somewhere on the table. Maybe it's in relation to another piece. If it is, it rests

gently

on top

LoL.

Ok than, if we can have reads this early in the game I'll give you mine. Apthet is a newbie scum unnecessarily trying to help out her scum mate xyzzy.

-----------------------

After resting his pieces on top of each other, he sits proudly and points at what he did,

Null.

and then proceeds to ask the other players

insane

questions

Again, adjectives. This time however the adjective makes this statement completely opinion based.

like "why did you pick the red piece?" "why are all the pieces that Enter picks have round edges?" even if all the pieces have round edges. "why is the table so big?" "why is the sky blue?" Every time another player asks a decent question or makes a decent comment "Hmm, what if you used this piece instead of that one?" or "I think this one might fit here," trekkie is always right there to follow up with "why did you ask this question this way?" or "what does it mean to think two pieces fit together?"

Name one post I've made which would be comparable to the fictional quotes you say are reputational of my behavior.

I have never seen a player seem so terribly and completely convinced that they look like they're scumhunting or tunneling when it appears to me as if they are doing nothing like it. Nothing about his play seems optimal to town in the slightest.

Opinion.

That's why I have a trekkie scumread.

I'm not particularly interested in answering his half-assed questions he asks merely for the show of posting content

It doesn't work that way.

So. We've reached the day when posts can be nullified because they have words that can be classified as "adjectives."
And yes, it does work that way. I answer and don't answer what I want to. I didn't say this earlier because it's a useless thing to say and it doesn't push the game forward at all, but Taly wants me to respond, so...

I'm not particularly interested in answering his half-assed questions he asks merely for the show of posting content

So basically what your saying is that you can accuse me of something, and when I ask you to explain your reasoning for accusing me, you don't have to answer because you think my questions are half-assed.

Spoiler:

Point me to a question I haven't answered, please.

Not quite sure what the fuck you're trying to get from me.

Your defense as too why this post should be considered as townie.

I'm not particularly interested in answering his half-assed questions he asks merely for the show of posting content

*to, you use "too" when you are trying to explain something is in excess.
And no, that's not my defense.
So, for this post, we have cherry picking and taking out of context.

asks a question that you think I should answer that I have not already

You've answered zero of my questions.

Point to a question you want answered please. Also please answer my questions to you, since it's VITAL for people to be townread for them to answer questions

[Enter]

@Taly

Hopefully that wall makes sense to you. If that's all it takes for me to convince you the scumread on Trekkie is a good one, Great! But a majority of the players will likely, at most, skim that shit and move on with their lives. I've made quote walls before, but usually when I make a quote wall, I have something different to say to every post. There's commentary because I can see a thought process in each of the posts I quote.

I cannot see a thought process for Trekkie. I do not see him trying to sort. When I ask myself the question "is this post from Trekkie motivated by town?" I exclusively get a "no data" back, because I cannot see any thought or effort beyond bare minimum reflex responses in his posts. I can sum up everything he's done in "no effort, literally reflex." He hasn't posted reasoning for what he's done, he has shown bare minimum reads, he asked a couple questions like "was this lynch a bad one?" when he had already answered it, and then proceeded to complain about not having his questions answered.

Now that I have fully and completely done everything I think you could have wanted from me in this mind-bogglingly wasteful exchange we've had, will you please back up your town read of Trekkie with something other than "there's a wagon on him right now."

[Enter]

I realize that I have been dumb. I was not fully descriptive in my words, and that may have caused a rampage that perhaps should never have happened, if this is the reason that things went through as they did, I apologize. Please, allow me to clarify:

Trekkie has asked no questions to me that he could not have answered himself.

[Enter]

@Jury

, if you have decided not to lynch NSG, I encourage you to ask yourself to ISO Trekkie and ask yourself the questions "Does this post seem as if it is pushing the game thread in a positive direction?" "Does he have a thought process that is visible, or are most of his posts off-the-wall reflex responses?" "Can I see an reasoning or intent in his posts that can be interpreted as town?"

And perhaps there are people today that should be lynched but have not because most of the attention has been directed towards myself and Trekkie. I request that you use better judgement than myself when looking for such people, for I admit that I have been a bit tunnel-visioned today, and I will make an effort not to be so tomorrow.

[Enter]

There are no invalid questions in Mafia.

Trekkie's

stated a suspicion of

apthet

and

xyzzy

(32 53 73) and even reasoned his uncertainties with me. 74 and 76 135 He even interacted with

xyzzy

.

Have you even ISOed

Trekkie

?

You denying all of these posts and misconstruing his questions toward you as tunneling is baffling to me. This is why your scumread on him seems blatantly overconfident and you continuing to drive this point reads as a forced lynch-plea to the jury

instead

of scumhunting.

but Trekkie's wagon has stood the test of time, two days specifically, so that should ping you as strange,

Only because people want to agree with most things I say in this game but don't change their stances accordingly.

When did people agree with you and fail to change their stances?

Yes, I've ISO'd Trekkie. Multiple times. I thought that I had said this, but maybe not.

Also, you just picked a bunch of posts where he responds off-the-cuff to various posts and posts maybe a read or two. What about this seems town to you? Where do you see him putting in thought and effort?

I said he makes posts about reads but doesn't push and doesn't explain. He's had a few posts where he's put maybe a singular thought down. There's far too few for there to be a process there that anyone could even really consider comparing to his sparing reads list.

I see no point in a back and forth.

My vote's not moving form

Enter

until he stops cherry-picking what he wants to respond to with my posts, and actually answer my prompts and

Trekkie's

assertions/questions.

Where am I cherry-picking? What questions/assertions from Trekkie am I missing?

Have YOU ISO'd Trekkie? I mean the whole thing, also try and notice every time he ignores comments/posts made at him that would move the game forward and then also notice every time he makes some reflex comment that adds barely anything to the game.

[Enter]

Maybe my glasses are dirty, but it looks to me like you, Taly, failed to read anything Trekkie said before asking me to answer questions when you weren't quite sure what they were, and then were called out for it, and then cherry picked some comments out of Trekkie's ISO -the few that seem like they could come from town if anything else he had said also came from town- and then accused me of failing to do everything that you had just failed to do.

[Enter]

I'm sorry, I recognize that I've devolved into a heap of ranting trash that's not moving the game thread forward.

I'll admit I was a bit initially blinded and confused by Taly's response to my effort, but I think it's because I approached the game a bit differently than perhaps he's used to.

I'm aware that I'm not doing much more than shouting "you're an idiot" loudly because he disagrees with me and I admit that in my frustration I may not have fully read and understood your responses. I'll be reasonable when I come back.

I apologize

[Enter]

Also what "useful questions" have I avoided?

I gave you three in my most recent post.

And you could have answered that yourself.

Didn't feel the need.

My point exactly.

[Enter]

They also reevaluate their reads; and if I had to townbloc someone, this would currently be my only choice - but it's something.

Taly, what does "soulread" mean?

I'm still thinking Enter might be town, especially because he really does seem genuinely convinced of Trekkie being scum. I think his desire to quickly help Taly establish a core of town people is misguided because I don't think that Taly is/should be townread by everybody, and because it seems like he's trying to insert himself into that group of people.

If it were up to me at this point, I'd probably kill in one of xyzzy or northsidegal.

My intent w/ the town block isn't to keep those people in it from being suspicion, but to keep the Jury from making mistakes like they did yesterday and to help focus our efforts via minimization of confusion. If we were all talking about everything that seemed scummy to us, it would hard to collect enough data on a single person to have their lynch. Every time anyone made a scummy mistake, someone would be likely to catch it and try to have them lynched for it, and since town makes scummy looking posts all the time, we would never get anywhere. I've found it is much easier to find scum when they feel comfortable and are allowed to have a consistent pattern of posts lacking in town motivation. Very rarely have I seen scum caught off a single post, and very rarely do I see scum make very scummy posts.

After looking back at Taly's responses to me I significantly doubted (and still doubt) my town read on him, but I refuse to examine him as scum for now until I'm certain that the pool outside the established town block, because I feel that would be distracting for the other players. I've found that through methodical examination of players in various groups, it becomes easy to find who you trust and who you don't by looking at the method and reason behind the way they play.

[Enter]

I apologize for my absence at day end, I'm a bit ashamed of how brashly I lost control earlier, so I'm just taking a break for today. I'll reexamine in the morning.

[Enter]

Inb4 NSG comes back from prod to be lynched.

[Enter]

A couple points I wanted to hit quick, and I'll get to this (and the rest of the game) more in depth later. (I know that's a lot of promises, I apologize)

Of those, I feel the most strongly that Trekkie99 is town, especially because he feels different than in Newbie 1901, which is the last game I played, where he replaced into a scum slot.

Keep in mind, as far as my experiences have gone, replacing into a game and starting a game result in very different styles of play, and a one game sample is not very large at all, especially since people often intentionally play different from game to game sometimes (I do.)

Maybe not huge walls or more than four or five posts in a row (looking at you, Enter), but if everyone could at least have reads lists that they update as they change (even if your list still has nulls or you're not very certain), that would be nice.

I tried to avoid this, and people (Taly) yelled at me. :/ Don't read them if you don't want. I've only posted them this game because I'm certain that I will

Trekkie is being cased as mafia but I’m not seeing it. The big points against him are that his reads are shallow (sure) and that he’s asking useless questions. This isn’t terrible, but it isn’t compelling to me. I thought some of Trekkie’s early posts were pretty bold for a player who’s never been town outside of a three player meme game. 53 was a pretty bold response. 74 and 76 looked pretty town as well to me. nsg’s post about trekkie’s fearlessness in the face of the jury being fake felt shaky. That seems more like a personality thing than a mafia/town thing.

I’m not completely closed off to lynching Trekkie, but the current arguments aren’t doing it for me, sorry.

The big points against him are that his reads are shallow (sure) and that he’s asking useless questions.

As per the Trekkie confusion, something people don't seem to understand (or maybe I'm failing to understand people's responses), is that I don't think of Trekkie as scum for being shallow and useless. I think he's scum because he's lacking in motivation. His failure to adequately perform in joke games is a failure on the theory side of mafia, but motivation is relatively universal (as far as I'm aware.)

When I quoted Trekkie's posts (I quoted all so you could see what I was talking about), I was showing that he fails to care about basic and important things. He fails to answer prompts given to him that further the game thread and asks questions about unimportant details. Even after being prompted a second time, his vote is still on Clemency, which is a DEAD character who wasn't even listed in his scum pool when he put it down (and he confirmed his vote was still there). He complained for two pages about not answering "questions" and when he finally did quote the singular question that I had been asked, it was one that I had already answered (and one that he could have answered himself, nonetheless).

When I play mafia and I find that I am scum, I often find myself lacking motivation to look for indications of what each player is (particularly because I don't have any reason to, I already know) and thus I find myself posting about theory and lurking (like NSG) or finding weird questions and doing my best to present activity with the least effort possible.

SO answer this: Does Trekkie's posts mimic a lack of effort to you?

The answer to that question, for me, is a hard YES. There is no way around this. Complaining about answering questions instead of asking them again if they're so important, making lists of reads that consist of names w/o reasons, making pages and pages of random comments (he talked twice to / about bambi jay, a player that didn't even post in the game), and leaving his vote on a dead player after being prompted to move it are just the few reasons that immediately come to my mind as indicating a strong lack of effort. This is why I read Trekkie as scum. Not because his posts ping my scumdar or anything he's doing is particularly scummy, it's because of what he ISN'T doing and because of the lack of motivation that seems to come from him.

You mentioned earlier that you played with trekkie in the 3p meme lylo game and you clearly don’t have a high opinion of his play. In light of that, it feels like your confidence is forced.

That was a post about his failure to adequately apply mafia theory to mafia and a spur of the moment attempt to reconcile Taly's apparent surprise at my read/post on Trekkie and my current thoughts on Trekkie. My read on Trekkie is based on a lack of motivation, not his ability.

We’re not going to bind ourselves exactly to who town wants to lynch but it factors heavily in our considerations, for what it’s worth.

I understand and agree, which is why I made the posts I did.

One thing I would really like you to understand, if you can, is that this is the hardest town game I have ever played. Not being able to have any control over the lynch whatsoever and having no in-game indication of where people stand as far as how close they are to a lynch and the like makes this game excruciatingly difficult. This is one reason I asked Trekkie to place is vote. This is also a tertiary reason why I don't like Trekkie's posting -- he complained about the lynch yesterday and then started implying people were dumb for complaining about the lynch yesterday. In addition, he was complaining about people talking to the Jury and feeling weak and powerless -- I cannot relate or imagine relating to either of these sentiments as town in shape or form. Talking to the Jury is just about the only power I feel I have, and I feel legitimately weak. Not being able to apply pressure by making someone think they're about to get lynched? That's a nightmare. Not being able to know who might be lynched? That's a nightmare. I feel like scum have no reason to recognize when they're out of line. I'm really having a hard time describing the overwhelming feeling of atrophy this game gives me as a player, so I promise if I find better words I will use them.

But Trekkie doesn't make posts that are consistent or relatable as a member of the town, and he doesn't reflect the senses I feel as far as frustration and the like due to not knowing who might be lynched/having power over the lynch, -- because it legitimately doesn't matter to him as scum.

[Enter]

A couple points I wanted to hit quick, and I'll get to this (and the rest of the game) more in depth later. (I know that's a lot of promises, I apologize)

Of those, I feel the most strongly that Trekkie99 is town, especially because he feels different than in Newbie 1901, which is the last game I played, where he replaced into a scum slot.

Keep in mind, as far as my experiences have gone, replacing into a game and starting a game result in very different styles of play, and a one game sample is not very large at all, especially since people often intentionally play different from game to game sometimes (I do.)

Maybe not huge walls or more than four or five posts in a row (looking at you, Enter), but if everyone could at least have reads lists that they update as they change (even if your list still has nulls or you're not very certain), that would be nice.

I tried to avoid this, and people (Taly) yelled at me. :/ Don't read them if you don't want. I've only posted them this game because I'm certain that I will

Trekkie is being cased as mafia but I’m not seeing it. The big points against him are that his reads are shallow (sure) and that he’s asking useless questions. This isn’t terrible, but it isn’t compelling to me. I thought some of Trekkie’s early posts were pretty bold for a player who’s never been town outside of a three player meme game. 53 was a pretty bold response. 74 and 76 looked pretty town as well to me. nsg’s post about trekkie’s fearlessness in the face of the jury being fake felt shaky. That seems more like a personality thing than a mafia/town thing.

I’m not completely closed off to lynching Trekkie, but the current arguments aren’t doing it for me, sorry.

The big points against him are that his reads are shallow (sure) and that he’s asking useless questions.

As per the Trekkie confusion, something people don't seem to understand (or maybe I'm failing to understand people's responses), is that I don't think of Trekkie as scum for being shallow and useless. I think he's scum because he's lacking in motivation. His failure to adequately perform in joke games is a failure on the theory side of mafia, but motivation is relatively universal (as far as I'm aware.)

When I quoted Trekkie's posts (I quoted all so you could see what I was talking about), I was showing that he fails to care about basic and important things. He fails to answer prompts given to him that further the game thread and asks questions about unimportant details. Even after being prompted a second time, his vote is still on Clemency, which is a DEAD character who wasn't even listed in his scum pool when he put it down (and he confirmed his vote was still there). He complained for two pages about not answering "questions" and when he finally did quote the singular question that I had been asked, it was one that I had already answered (and one that he could have answered himself, nonetheless).

When I play mafia and I find that I am scum, I often find myself lacking motivation to look for indications of what each player is (particularly because I don't have any reason to, I already know) and thus I find myself posting about theory and lurking (like NSG) or finding weird questions and doing my best to present activity with the least effort possible.

SO answer this: Does Trekkie's posts mimic a lack of effort to you?

The answer to that question, for me, is a hard YES. There is no way around this. Complaining about answering questions instead of asking them again if they're so important, making lists of reads that consist of names w/o reasons, making pages and pages of random comments (he talked twice to / about bambi jay, a player that didn't even post in the game), and leaving his vote on a dead player after being prompted to move it are just the few reasons that immediately come to my mind as indicating a strong lack of effort. This is why I read Trekkie as scum. Not because his posts ping my scumdar or anything he's doing is particularly scummy, it's because of what he ISN'T doing and because of the lack of motivation that seems to come from him.

You mentioned earlier that you played with trekkie in the 3p meme lylo game and you clearly don’t have a high opinion of his play. In light of that, it feels like your confidence is forced.

That was a post about his failure to adequately apply mafia theory to mafia and a spur of the moment attempt to reconcile Taly's apparent surprise at my read/post on Trekkie and my current thoughts on Trekkie. My read on Trekkie is based on a lack of motivation, not his ability.

We’re not going to bind ourselves exactly to who town wants to lynch but it factors heavily in our considerations, for what it’s worth.

I understand and agree, which is why I made the posts I did.

One thing I would really like you to understand, if you can, is that this is the hardest town game I have ever played. Not being able to have any control over the lynch whatsoever and having no in-game indication of where people stand as far as how close they are to a lynch and the like makes this game excruciatingly difficult. This is one reason I asked Trekkie to place is vote. This is also a tertiary reason why I don't like Trekkie's posting -- he complained about the lynch yesterday and then started implying people were dumb for complaining about the lynch yesterday. In addition, he was complaining about people talking to the Jury and feeling weak and powerless -- I cannot relate or imagine relating to either of these sentiments as town in shape or form. Talking to the Jury is just about the only power I feel I have, and I feel legitimately weak. Not being able to apply pressure by making someone think they're about to get lynched? That's a nightmare. Not being able to know who might be lynched? That's a nightmare. I feel like scum have no reason to recognize when they're out of line. I'm really having a hard time describing the overwhelming feeling of atrophy this game gives me as a player, so I promise if I find better words I will use them.

But Trekkie doesn't make posts that are consistent or relatable as a member of the town, and he doesn't reflect the senses I feel as far as frustration and the like due to not knowing who might be lynched/having power over the lynch, -- because it legitimately doesn't matter to him as scum.

[Enter]

I tried to avoid this, and people (Taly) yelled at me. :/ Don't read them if you don't want. I've only posted them this game because I'm certain that I will

Sorry. I write my posts in pieces and incomplete thoughts, and don't review them before I post all the time...

What I meant to say is that I've only posted my response to every one of Trekkie to prove my point.

Also sorry for the double post.

[Enter]

Taly talk about dichotomies in mafia games pls, cuz I'm not quite sure why they're so important to you, but you say it a lot.

[Enter]

I'm confident its because North/xyzzy are scum, and they wanted to be on the SAME page with pushing Trekkie/Tony-scum while

Why is this important?

It feels like your xyzzy read is based mostly off the fact that NSG doesn't like sharing her opinion of him. Would that be accurate?

[Enter]

Taly, what do you think of this:

so before DarkLightA was in my scum reads, but that was pretty much due to him being a lurker; now that he's been replaced, Enter seems a lot townier to me. his entrance was super solid.

Trekkie's 90 was a comically bad post. speck in my eye, plank in your eye etc etc etc

Enter, in 91 you asked Taly which two people he would save from being lynched today given the ability to do so; what prompted you to ask Taly in particular that question and not everyone?

Trekkie's 93 is such a bullshit noncommital answer. it's tempting to write off some of Trekkie's scummy behavior as just him being a somewhat new player who hasn't totally found his feet, but being unwilling to answer such a direct question like that isn't a good look.

TonyMontana's 106 about northsidegal is interesting. I don't totally agree with all of his ideas (the thing about reducing a 2:9 game to 2:6 is just... not really an accurate reflection of anything?), but the whole post seems to come from a very genuine place.

nsg's like 10 posts in a row don't feel good though. that comes off as scum spewing in response to being scumread by TonyMontana.

nsg's 111, I find the assertion that town would become especially freaked out at being scumread kind of weird. like obviously the best way to fulfill your win condition with any alignment is to never die, but the threshold of how many town players can die and still have the town win is much higher than the mafia's threshold.

my TonyMontana town read is just that he's engaging with the game in a way that feels very town to me. not very many posts, but they all feel very genuine to me.

I still feel super neutral on apthet. her 131 just feels like it could come from anyone. I think if she is scum, her partner isn't Taly, though I don't have a strong opinion on who it might be instead.

I don't think the nsg/Tony thing is tvt. I'm deffo leaning toward Tony being town, so an nsg lynch might be the best option, and a Tony lynch if she flips town. I'd prefer Trekkie first because having to argue with him is actively detrimental to the whole town -- I don't think deliberating over just how scummy he is is actually helpful.

TOWN
Taly
TonyMontana

Enter
apthet

northsidegal
Trekkie99
NOT TOWN

[Enter]

Xyzzy please post reads. It doesn't have to be long, but when you post, please share reasons for your three strongest reads. Also, if your three strongest reads agree with people who have recently posted/made a case about that person, please share any differences and similarities in your opinion and WHY.

Thank you.

[Enter]

I'm going to be honest, I'd be more surprised if Xyzzy flipped scum than if Taly flipped scum right now.

That's just my gut, though.

Taly, you remind me of someone I used to play with years ago.

[Enter]

Apthet, please establish consistency w/ what you're thinking and what you're posting:

To northside: are you acknowledging a bias that you think you shouldn't have or do you believe that this playstyle is more likely to come from town?

I'm kind of thinking that Enter might be

mafia

. I thought he made a good first few posts that seemed productive and I think trying to make northsidegal post by putting suspicion on her is something I can see from town. But "I feel so weak and powerless" sort of feels like an empty post designed to make himself look more like town. I also think his desire to get Trekkie lynched escalated so fast out of nowhere. I'd imagine town would want to talk and get a read on as many people as possible.

On the other hand, I was thinking TonyMontana was mafia, because his big post justifying voting northside read more to me like he was trying to find a whole bunch of reasons to justify his vote, like going over everything she posted and trying to find something suspicious about it. In the end I'm sort of conflicted on whether or not he's genuine or not, especially after suggesting that "I'm willing for the next lynch to either be me or northside" in his most recent post.

I'm back to thinking that Taly is probably town. I think that he's right that looking for people you can confidently say are town is also useful. He's also been modifying his reads and actively asking questions, so for now I've decided I haven't really seen anything to be suspicious of.

I'm

still

thinking Enter might be

town

, especially because he really does seem genuinely convinced of Trekkie being scum. I think his desire to quickly help Taly establish a core of town people is misguided because I don't think that Taly is/should be townread by everybody, and because it seems like he's trying to insert himself into that group of people.

Your reads flip like the pages in a good book and indicate that you're saying things you don't believe are true.

Town:
Tony
Xyzzy

Taly

Trekkie
Apthet
Scum

[Enter]

I'm not completely sure on everything from 224 yet. I'm waiting on a couple responses from certain players, Taly specifically, before I move further with that.

Xyzzy is in my town reads because I like what Xyzzy has done this game when xyzzy has been a part of this game.

[Enter]

I'm scumreading apthet for the reasons I posted above, which Tony reinforced and added to.

Every other read is dim compared to that. I do not care about lynching anyone except apthet today.

Xyzzy has nothing in their ISO that indicates anything really scummy at all, the only two indicators are associatives and lack of activity (as far as I can tell)

It makes more sense for me to have just misread/misunderstood Trekkie than it does for apthet to be scum

Taly is far more likely to just be posting in weird ways than apthet to have "accidentally" forgotten what she was reading people

Tony is town.

=> conversations about xyzzy and other things are interesting, but they are very low on my list of priorities as I do not believe I am likely to find scum anywhere except apthet. I will come back and discuss things w/ you later (Taly, Trekkie) but the game just moved to low on my list of priorities because as far as I'm concerned, it's solved.

[Enter]

Jury, in my opinion: Kill xyzzy, then Enter. You can kill me whenever you want to -- arguing against Tony and Enter seems to me like a waste of time (and I'm still on vacation, haha). Would be cool if both of my reads were right though.

Actually scratch both of those. I'll check again tonight. Consider me a blank slate except for Tony as town, Trekkie as secondary town. I'll explain more when I have a computer.

If you put a little more effort in than take other people's consensus and post it as your own, it might be a little less indicative of you as scum.

[Enter]

Oof. Got quiet around here.

I can see Taly's read has some holes in it, but I like it a lot so I'm all for a xyzzy lynch.

Just going to VOTE: xyzzy so the jury can see.

What do you like about it and why do you not think apthet is scum?

[Enter]

apthet was a bad lynch (she wasn't like........ conf town but she was also not obvious scum) but honestly I don't know what the jury are even doing this game

my #1 scum read is still trekkie but pretty much since the end of day 2 message I've been acting under the assumption that that'll never happen. taly's sudden laser-focused tunnel on me feels like it could be scum realizing that he suddenly has to win this whole game alone and trying to find an easy target?

I don't know what to make of enter at all at this point tbh

you talked an awful lot about how bad this lynch was over the days of silence we had.

[Enter]

Xyzzy please post reads. It doesn't have to be long, but when you post, please share reasons for your three strongest reads. Also, if your three strongest reads agree with people who have recently posted/made a case about that person, please share any differences and similarities in your opinion and WHY.

Thank you.

[Enter]

What do you like about it

It makes sense for all the reasons Taly has stated.

and why do you not think apthet is scum?

I said I thought she was mixed. And she was still mixed due to her hopping around on her read on you.

Also, I'd like you to clarify your answer to this question.

Xyzzy is in my town reads because I like what Xyzzy has done this game when xyzzy has been a part of this game.

Erm...

I want to know why your town reading him. is there a reason he's not at least in your mixed reads?

He certainly looks a lot more scummy now.

I'm confused. Everyone still here had NSG to whatever extent in their scum reads. My best guess is at some point NSG's scum mate realized that NSG's lynch was inevitable and they jumped on the wagon. So the question is

who was late

to the party?

That's probably the best question to ask right now, TBH.

I honestly don't know how to answer it. You were slow to mention NSG scum read... but your response seemed genuine, as did xyzzy's. I still like Tony for Town. Taly is ... town for now because he directed a lot of attention towards NSG - even if you bus as scum, it's a pretty hard bus if you're trying to get other people to jump on that train. (which he wasn't, but directing attention towards someone is a good way to get them lynched a lot of the time.)

[Enter]

xyzzy is picking and choosing what they're replying too and making loads of excuses.

[Enter]

lol. Darn. That's...

It sucks to lose and feel you had no control over it the entire time.

I think the game was cool in theory (thanks, schadd), but I wouldn't ever do this again.

[Enter]

im treating this as a win ty for modding

schadd

+1