Mini Theme 2083 - Vengeful Ghosts Endgame

[NerfedBuJ]

Thanks Jingle.

I did not want to post until the official replacement because I will try to go one full game without posting accidentally with BuJaber. Wish me luck.

I did read though so initial thoughts are:
Binary star, Arkham Hydra, and Egix are scummy.

Pine might be town for being townread too much if that makes sense. Why else would there be some pocketing?

Mastina the joker she is has self-voted in the one game you can't get rid of someone for self-voting so I feel like I've already been checkmated. (No not THAT joker)

Dann flatters me with the vote. My username made an impression one way or another which is nice I guess.

Slight town on Cheeky. Pretty strong entrance.

[NerfedBuJ]

I have a difficult choice to make and I need some help.

Do I be try to be extra annoying (or at least post completely unfiltered crap) because death doesn't silence people here... or should I treat it like any other game?

[NerfedBuJ]

You’re young baby you still got time.

Saucy take: one of the big hydras are scum. Deb is either scum or town PR.

This is way too UNcontroversial for a town!FL take.

Why does Deb strike you as scum though? I was kinda leaning town as a gut reaction.

[NerfedBuJ]

I have a difficult choice to make and I need some help.

Do I be try to be extra annoying (or at least post completely unfiltered crap) because death doesn't silence people here... or should I treat it like any other game?

I mean this is your nerfed account so... I'd say the latter

Wow what a dick <3

[NerfedBuJ]

Nerfed is about not pissing myself off. If I'm being honest I have no reservations pissing other people off if it helps me get reads.

But you're right I'll be nice. There's already annoying hydras and jokers running around.
Haha jokers.

This game will be fun just for that pun.

[NerfedBuJ]

Chemist ngl you're not doing a great job of avoiding a mislynch right now

Also I should vote so VOTE: binary

[NerfedBuJ]

@Joker:

Identity speculation is fine. You'll only make a fool of yourself.

-B

I have like a really strong suspicion that you're Blue

[NerfedBuJ]

Prodding NerfedBuj.

Site timer is lying.. that could NOT have been 2 days.

Then again this game barely moves.

Chick's reaction doesn't feel scummy but also it's not hard to fake.

Let's lynch big hydra. Get it? Big hydra.

VOTE: AA

[NerfedBuJ]

Prodding NerfedBuj.

Site timer is lying.. that could NOT have been 2 days.

Then again this game barely moves.

Chick's reaction doesn't feel scummy but also it's not hard to fake.

Let's lynch big hydra. Get it? Big hydra.

VOTE: AA

Is this a serious vote? Why are we scum?

~Nerfed HQ

I gave y'all the benefit of the doubt at first but I feel like your hydra's posting has been severely lacking in content for how much you guys have posted.

There is also like seemingly no communication between your heads that it's literally like having 4 extra individual players in the thread. I'm fine with hydras having some posts separately without private discussion, especially when there is an opportunity for real time participation, I do it myself when I hydra, but I still expect some sign that y'all know each others' thoughts to reduce the amount of hydra dissonance.

So overall so far your posting has been anti-town. By default I treat all anti-town as scum I don't make excuses for it unless there's someone far scummier out there. But even considering the possibility that you are town hurting town instead of scum hurting town, there's not much that I can townread in your ISO. The most you have in your favor is that the roleplay and to some extent the dissonance can be expected from your hydra, which only makes the arguments NAI and puts your slot at a null at best, not anywhere near a townread.

[NerfedBuJ]

"Nerfed" Buj, it's pretty obvious that 3/5 heads aren't really playing the game yet - one's just shitposted so far, and two of them have said they'll get into the game later. The majority of posts are just from me and Harley - and even then, I'm not seeing any *major* dissonance that's soooo anti-town.

We are still effectively in early game where no one really has much content. You seem like you're taking vague reasons that could apply to any large Hydra to push us, while refusing to actually scumhunt for scummy slots.

Dishonest much?

-The Joker

You are kind of describing the problem. There's not much content in the game as a whole. You or some other head continue to post, but not in ways that are contributing to koving the game forward (I guess this counts but since you're engaging with the guy voting you that would happen regardless of alignment).

And I had two other scum suspects. I am looking at other slots. People have more or less stopped posting between then and now. I like binary's posting a bit more now so I'm dropping them back to a null, but egix hasn't yet changed my mind I just don't have anything concrete about him to push yet, it was more of a feeling.

From the players that are posting, and are therefore giving me a chance to get a better read on them you guys seem like the best candidate for scum at the moment, barring just randomly picking one of the non-posters to push.

If you have a way to determine alignments from non-posters I'm all ears. But since we don't have 1 or 2 lurkers, we have at least 7, it's really hard to call them out as svummy for lurking.

Now I know what you're going to say "so why as scum would we not just shut up alltogether and let the thread die?" But as we all know that's just WIFOM. Especially if your partners are also lurking. I don't care how many townies stop posting, no scum team who actually wants to win and cares about their reputation with game mods will just choose to have ALL their members lurk out

Ironically enough a game with more chances to talk, through death or night actions or whatever is ending up with much less conversation.

[NerfedBuJ]

Are you Auro really?

If so your activity level really isn't indicative. You were pretty superb at fitting in to town. I had my doubts at times, but without the no lynch conversation I would not have guessed until too late.

I did know the alignment of my wolf partner though so I guess I had that bit of an edge over town.

Either way, we both know activity level is not a town tell for you, so I'm only going to get more suspicious of your slot if the other heads continue to take a backseat and let you take the spotlight.

[NerfedBuJ]

And you had me as town before, Harley was the one who suspected me so what's going on there? Did you talk about it and agree with her? What changed?
It's looking a lot like OMGUS. Especially when one head doesn't even know the other head was townreading me.

[NerfedBuJ]

I said people continue posting because of the prod rule for dead people.

Even if it's not in-game that's still using your voice, so you can't silence people by lynching them.

[NerfedBuJ]

Here's a fun scum ISO:

VOTE: ZZZX

I'm unvoting the hydra because I am pocketed by knowing it contains Auro. We have some mutual wish of playing as town together, and on the chance that it is happening, we deserve to give each other the chance to prove it.

[NerfedBuJ]

Katwoman - who the hell are you and why are you acting like shoshin?

[NerfedBuJ]

Also I thought those reads were pretty good based on first 6 pages. Literally all 3 of the slots only got better after that.

[NerfedBuJ]

Maybe everyone who voted chick was town and she's town and scum got scared of joining such an early wagon so they started bashing the voters

[NerfedBuJ]

Except not only did I not join the wagon, I later did a gut check on her and declared a TR on her. It helps to consider the whole context before making broad and flexible statements like "this is weird."

I did find your later posts considering the wagon better than I found your earlier posts

That was just my gut reaction to seeing those posts upon catching up

Fair enough. This is why I like to do stream-of-consciousness catchups in a single post, rather than the Creature style. Lets you see the whole picture.

Also it creates far fewer pages, and prevents you from commenting in redundant stuff.

Almost every time creature or someone who catches up like him will comment on something and then several posts later they totally invalidate it.

[NerfedBuJ]

Damn you figured it out, clearly I was shoshin all along

-showoman

You're not though.. at least.. you weren't in overkill2 and you talked about it so I'm confused because in the past only shoshin has talked to/about me in this fashion.

[NerfedBuJ]

Buj what do you think of DEB?

-TJ

I dunno gut reaction is to scumread shitposting but there's a lot of players playing gimmickily here so it can't all be scum-indicative. And he seems quite self aware of how horribly it could reflect on him so he's either town or open wolfing.

I don't know him so I don't know if his personality fits with an open wolfer or not yet.

I'm happy trying to sort him by proxy for now

[NerfedBuJ]

And Kat is a Krazy alt right?
I have trouble remembering people by their mains, alts are just too much.

Still though we've had some epic 1v1's before because of disagreements but I haven't known him to outright laugh at my reads like that. That's a shoshin thing and krazy isn't that egotistical

[NerfedBuJ]

Not everyone is smart as everyone else okay.. am I still not allowed to scumread the hydra for being intentionally confusing.

You either out or you remain secret. This deception, joking around, lying, misleading, and taunting is not helpful.

In every game there are some people who will have meta knowledge on others and some who won't. But when you out an alt in such a way that only some people will understand and others won't it's an inherent disadvantage to those that don't understand.

Let me make it clear that I'm happy enough not knowing who you are and treating you like someone I have 0 meta on. That's completely fine and still allows us to play cooperatively, but if that is your choice then just say so and drop all alt talk, because at best it's distracting and at worse it's intentional manipulation.

[NerfedBuJ]

Like I fully admit I'm completely unqualified to deal with this many heads across two hydras and with the additional soft claiming going around I'm utterly lost

[NerfedBuJ]

But you know what let's all have fun .. apparently it's not scummy to just post whatever makes you happy

[NerfedBuJ]

Reap what you sow

I like pizza. I ate too much pizza today though, I have a bit of a stomachache.

[NerfedBuJ]

New Gabriel Igelsias show on netflix is very promising as a laid back sitcom. I'm enjoying it so far

[NerfedBuJ]

Jingle has an amazing mind for setup design so I joined this game.
Overall I've been immensely enjoying the decision to join MS and try out this site and I only wish I joined it sooner.

Funnily enough I didn't think the site was active at first, I thought it was only alive for the wiki and I used to fantasize about the days when people played games on here. And then one day I realized the site is actually still being played on and I signed up right away

[NerfedBuJ]

How much pizza is too much pizza, though?

-Ya boy TJ

Too much pizza is a temporary state, it only applies to one meal.

And the line is drawn at around the time you start to feel pain or nausea. anything before that you're good.

[NerfedBuJ]

So you're now a nerfed version of NerfedBuj?
NerfedNerfedBuj?

-TeeJay

RandomSpectatorNerfedBuJ

[NerfedBuJ]

ThreadHijackerNerfedBuJ

[NerfedBuJ]

HasSomeIssuesNerfedBuJ

[NerfedBuJ]

Okay is there anybody who townreads ZZZX?

[NerfedBuJ]

Also why is mastina avoiding us

[NerfedBuJ]

Yeah other games

[NerfedBuJ]

What if it's as easy as zz, pine, mastina?

[NerfedBuJ]

I would have called FL scum but it doesn't make sense why scum FL would get this many townreads without posting .. so I think there's definitely some funny business there with the TRs, and if I'm right about this theory then FL is locktown

[NerfedBuJ]

I feel like I (regrettably) picked up a towntell from Arkham.

Also, the hydra dissonance from Binary Star comes off as contrived. That comment about “we have a stated TR and I want to be concordant” especially set off alarm bells. If you have a disagreement, you either figure it out in your PT or you outright state “we don’t agree on this.” Binary Star is hedging their bets depending on how things go.

Keeping my BS vote.

I agree with rising suspicion of DEB, but having a hard time pinpointing the problem. Tonal, maybe? Overall tactical impression? Dunno.

Okay the timing of those post can't possibly be a reaction to me mentioning Pine's name so this feels pretty genuine

[NerfedBuJ]

I would have called FL scum but it doesn't make sense why scum FL would get this many townreads without posting .. so I think there's definitely some funny business there with the TRs, and if I'm right about this theory then FL is locktown

1. Didn't know DEB was in the game till DEB said hi
2. Avoided a 1v1 I was trying to instigate
3. Not attempting to control the gamestate at all
4. Scumreading us for reasons and then admitting our identities explained our behavior later

Heavily town indicative for FL.

-TJ

1 is assuming DEB is scum right?
I get it , just weird that you'd put a conditional as your number 1 reason.

[NerfedBuJ]

I agree with rising suspicion of DEB, but having a hard time pinpointing the problem. Tonal, maybe? Overall tactical impression? Dunno.

He had around 3 serious posts amongst a ton of other fluff posts. We thought the serious posts were scummy, and his rebuttal was a non-answer (jokingly?) lying that they were fluff too.

Can you look over at just those posts in context and tell me what you think? I'm on mobile, else would've quoted them myself.

-TJ

Hard to do without you identifying which posts you're referring to, but I can do a general ISO dive to explore my new read on DEB.

Don't worry it's not a long ISO

[NerfedBuJ]

The weird thing about overkill 1 was nobody commented on my random af off topic sentences that were supposed to be a crumb.

For the record I did no such thing here.

[NerfedBuJ]

Why day 2 when we can do it now

VOTE: Chemist

I feel he's much less involved than open 755.
Post 551 is after some break but it is mostly stating some very uncontroversial, easy to come up with, LAMIST things that don't actually tell us much about him or any of the slots he mentioned.

Also the RVS posting kinda sounds like a cheeky scum entrance.

[NerfedBuJ]

What do you think of the DEB wagon, Buj?

I think since it's a big wagon, like an almost done deal, the fact that he is not defending himself but some people are defending him is probably town indicative.

A situation like this on scum is not ideal for the scum team and I would expect them to treat DEB like a lost cause in which case bussing comes to mind, and DEB has to fight for his life to maintain authenticity of the buss. But what's happening here seems to be the opposite.

However with no flips I'm not really sure how much of that actually applies, I'm just going with my instinct and trusting that it's just a little weird and maybe he's town, despite him not giving us anything himself to make us believe that he is.

[NerfedBuJ]

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Maybe you're right...
Either way no big loss losing him.

I think chemist lynch would be better though

[NerfedBuJ]

Why day 2 when we can do it now

VOTE: Chemist

I feel he's much less involved than open 755.
Post 551 is after some break but it is mostly stating some very uncontroversial, easy to come up with, LAMIST things that don't actually tell us much about him or any of the slots he mentioned.

Also the RVS posting kinda sounds like a cheeky scum entrance.

Open 755 was 2FC9 right?

Yes

I think chemist lynch would be better though

but chemist is town?

Why?

[NerfedBuJ]

I think I scumread deb after the claim more

[NerfedBuJ]

Still though something is just off with this whole day 1 in terms of wagons.

[NerfedBuJ]

Why?

Why is he scum?

Chemist is LHF in every game but several of his posts have town pinged me this game so I'm kind of wary of him being set up as the default compromise lynch

He's definitely readable imo

Why day 2 when we can do it now

VOTE: Chemist

I feel he's much less involved than open 755.
Post 551 is after some break but it is mostly stating some very uncontroversial, easy to come up with, LAMIST things that don't actually tell us much about him or any of the slots he mentioned.

Also the RVS posting kinda sounds like a cheeky scum entrance.

[NerfedBuJ]

Ftr I started the zzzx wagon.

Let me double check something real quick.

[NerfedBuJ]

Ftr I started the zzzx wagon.

Let me double check something real quick.

Nvm I have never played with scum Z

[NerfedBuJ]

VOTE: Binary Store

I would be impressed with BOTH of you if this flips scum

After RVS the slot startd to pump out really townie-sounding posts

[NerfedBuJ]

I would be impressed with BOTH of you if this flips

Flipless game Buj

-The Joker

Post-game

[NerfedBuJ]

Have you ever seen a playerlist not too chicken to kill or lynch FL anyway? It's not impressive if he's bussing

[NerfedBuJ]

Not that he's scum here imo. He's been pretty controversial at very specific times that I don't see helping a scum agenda

[NerfedBuJ]

Well done DEB you saved a bunch of scummy slots from getting lynched.

[NerfedBuJ]

I also do not see where in the rules it says the dead can keep talking to the living.
If anything, the line "When you are dead, you will continue to effect this game directly, but may no longer post in this thread" seems to EXPLICITLY state that doesn't happen.

-White

Yeah Pine fell for it. I would have called it a slip but actually he's been pretty damn townie imo so I think it was probably just a mistake from his end.

[NerfedBuJ]

Though in some ways influencing the game from the dead thread somehow is comparable to talking in thread but with less spam.

[NerfedBuJ]

That makes me slightly more confident DEB's role claim was fake, and that he's scum.

-TJ

can roll with this

Obviously or there’d for sure be an NK.

~HQ

What if they want you thinking this so they didn't kill anyone?

[NerfedBuJ]

And I'm quite confident mastina is scum.

I believe every word she said except anything she said about alignment.

As in I believe all the WIM stuff and that it isn't because she rolled scum and she doesn't have any obvious reason for it and all that.

And because of this I think it's scum-indicative. I think she's taking advantage of how honest she can be about it. Plus it gives theexcuse to just shitpost and lurk whenever she wants.

I mean scum are messing about for sure but they're taking full advantage if the flipless nature of the game and I admire that they are playing it differently than a normal game.

VOTE: Mastina

[NerfedBuJ]

What if they want you thinking this so they didn't kill anyone?

Their loss?

Bujaber, are you around to talk?

For a few minutes probably.. what would you like to talk about?

[NerfedBuJ]

Also becauase nobody said it:

Dr Easy Bake got baked.

[NerfedBuJ]

Anybody want to make a not so secret hydra called 'Secret Hydra'?

[NerfedBuJ]

I guess tomorrow then AA.

[NerfedBuJ]

The push on Mastina looks opportunistic from Egix and Bujbuj.

Are you seriously calling

mastina

an LHF?

[NerfedBuJ]

No. If that were the case I would've said mastina is LHF.

Why mastina?

Then what makes it opportunistic.. there's no wagon on mastina and you don't think she's LHF.

[NerfedBuJ]

I explained my read on her.
My most comfortable posts as scum are when I can be totally honest.
I am projecting that on mastina.

It's a way to appear innocent when you're actually just not solving because you're scum.

[NerfedBuJ]

I think I scumread deb after the claim more

Still though something is just off with this whole day 1 in terms of wagons.

Well done DEB you saved a bunch of scummy slots from getting lynched.

Buj while you're here can you talk about your read progression on DEB D1?

I felt he was kind of scummy.

Then I started to think he isn't very scummy just anti town playstyle.

Then a weird wagon formed on him which solidifed my maybe he's town read.

Then he made a fake sounding claim, which made me hesitate.

But then I still went back to nulltown. He got himself lynched which was the most anti-town thing he could have done because he was so scummy people killed him instead of actual scum so I called him out on it.

But it's flipless maybe we did get lucky and lynch scum, atm though I just think it's far more probable that he was town.

[NerfedBuJ]

I don't really know probably someone I don't know

Or maybe FL

[NerfedBuJ]

VOTE: Mastina

Whoops

This changes the meaning of the post above kinda..

Do you scumread me or not?

[NerfedBuJ]

And you're nancy?

[NerfedBuJ]

I think that's the head that stopped signing.. i dunno I can't keep up with those details.

What do you think of chickadee?
One time she pushed creature and I scumread her for that and she flopped scum.

But she has terrible luck and is like always sick when I'm in a game with her so I really have very little experience playing with her despite us appearing in maybe 4 games together

[NerfedBuJ]

No. If that were the case I would've said mastina is LHF.

Why mastina?

Then what makes it opportunistic.. there's no wagon on mastina and you don't think she's LHF.

I find it difficult to believe after your concern surrounding the DEB wagon that your top scumread is mastina. I feel like town you should be more concerned or at least follow up on the VCA to look for scum.

Generally mastina is not LHF but here she's done nothing AI either way. She's indicated she wants to die so it seems like a convenient push for scum with little resistance.

I don't have to do one or the other. I can do both.

Besides that's a big wagon and even if all scum were on it it's still not the greatest odds compared to how strongly I feel about this gutread.

[NerfedBuJ]

I think Chick is town. What do you think of Cheeky?
Cheeky am I still pocketing you?

Cheeky was my first confident townread in the game.

I'm less sure now that she is doubting my alignment.

[NerfedBuJ]

Not enough to drop the townread though.. her explanation is reasonable.

[NerfedBuJ]

I think I scumread deb after the claim more

Still though something is just off with this whole day 1 in terms of wagons.

Well done DEB you saved a bunch of scummy slots from getting lynched.

Buj while you're here can you talk about your read progression on DEB D1?

I felt he was kind of scummy.

Then I started to think he isn't very scummy just anti town playstyle.

Then a weird wagon formed on him which solidifed my maybe he's town read.

Then he made a fake sounding claim, which made me hesitate.

But then I still went back to nulltown. He got himself lynched which was the most anti-town thing he could have done because he was so scummy people killed him instead of actual scum so I called him out on it.

But it's flipless maybe we did get lucky and lynch scum, atm though I just think it's far more probable that he was town.

This seems like a natural progression except the time frame between the posts, how can your mind chance so much with nothing happening to provoke the change?

I dunno? Probably some combination of mental state at the time, forcing myself to come up with more reads as I felt I didn't have much, not being happy with the gamestate, etc?

I don't know if it's actually true, like I haven't analyzed my games to that depth but my reads are generally more accurate day 1 and near endgame than the middle of the game. Middle of the game they get diluted by paranoia and WIFOM. So I don't feel comfortable when a day 1 does not generate as many solid reads as I would hope/expect.

[NerfedBuJ]

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In other words the trigger for the read changes is just me reevaluating or thinking about the game instead of reacting to specific new posts.

[NerfedBuJ]

I think Chick is town. What do you think of Cheeky?
Cheeky am I still pocketing you?

Cheeky was my first confident townread in the game.

I'm less sure now that she is doubting my alignment.

This is almost too scummy to be scum. Buj I'd expect you'd be more weary if I townread you seeing as I find you scummy in pretty much every game. In fact I'll dig up some meta because I may have just caught you.

Have we even played enough together for you to say this?

I know your name very well I just don't recall any specific games, and I don't think there were more than maybe a couple of them

[NerfedBuJ]

I think Dann may be scum.

Is it the avatar?
It's the avatar for me.

His play so far doesn't strike me as particularly AI either way.

[NerfedBuJ]

Well I play under alts too and I'll admit my track record of reading you isn't great which is why I'm hesitant here.

Then it's a little unfair of you to expect me to read you on way or another based on how you're reading me, no?

I'm way less informed about you than you are of me.

[NerfedBuJ]

1 pie + 1 pie = 0 pies because I ate them both

[NerfedBuJ]

I haven't had pie for what must be 3 years now actually holy crap I want pie

[NerfedBuJ]

This is just a prodge because I don't really have any significant reads or insights beyond what I shared.

Jj or mastina can go.

Some slots I'm kinda flip flopping on that could easily be scum

[NerfedBuJ]

Like chickadee and FL

[NerfedBuJ]

Though latest feeling on day 2 is they're town
Especially if deb was scum.

[NerfedBuJ]

You would have to full claim what you have before I can take a "soft innocent" seriously, and you should probably do so given how much you've already said.

-B

I think pine should try to explain more sbout his soft guilty also.

[NerfedBuJ]

Sorry for my absence guys.
I'm not sure I'll be fully back to normal activity yet but I can try to stay in the game for now.
I'll

[NerfedBuJ]

For what it's worth I didn't ask pine to claim more details just for the lols. I wanted to gauge the strength of the soft guilty.

I'm no where near as confident as FL about it but I still lean towards DEB being town.

[NerfedBuJ]

For reasons that will become apparent as the game progresses

[NerfedBuJ]

Okay Pine.

So what happened that mastina is now townread ?
It goes against all my instincts to allow mastina to coast this game.

Has she obvtowned since my last post? Can mastina even obvtown?