2078: Any Non-Dead Person Can Post In This Mafia Game [end]

[mastina]

you're not trying to solve
you're making low key attempts to discredit the townlocks that people have on me
you haven't really said anything about who you scumread

feels like you're waiting and hoping someone votes mastina so you can quickhammer.

Hey RC.

Everything you just said about ofhrz applies to Ausuka but ten times moreso.

[mastina]

Wait is she hated for the rest of the game?

I am indeed; today is thus lylo, not mylo.

[mastina]

VOTE: ofrhz

This is as close to a literal scumclaim as you can get btw.

[mastina]

Why are you voting for me ausuka?

I'm basically neutral about this and rc cares more and is better than me and if it's mastina I can't lynch her because of rc and if it's rc I can't lynch him because of mastina so...

Like.

This is literally admitting.

"I am scum, and I am voting with RC to make him feel better."

[mastina]

unless mastina's an odd night roleblocker

If I were a roleblocker I'd have,
1: not roleblocked nom and instead roleblocked someone who I was scumreading that could have plausibly had a night action that I could block, and
2: Would have claimed it.

I don't fucking lie about my role.

You of all fucking people know that.

You fucking KNOW I don't lie about my role as scum.

But I didn't claim roleblocker because I'm not a fucking roleblocker.

[mastina]

Jingle said the fakeclaim was super good so clear but it would actually be a super easy fakeclaim to come up with by just basing it off of Pine's claimed role if you already know he's town and changing the relevant thread and effects.

Problem with that, RC.

Check chronology.

ofhrz softed as far back as post 63.
And furthered it in post 75.
Pine only weakly softed in 219.
ofhrz all but claimed in 314; Pine had yet to.
Pine's next soft wasn't until 721.
ofhrz further softed in 856 as well as 857.
In this exchange, there is a mutual-understanding/softing/breadcrumbing from Pine/ofhrz.
He gets more explicit in 932.
In fact, it was Pine who claimed in response to ofhrz in 934, not the other way around.
And again in 939 ofhrz claimed this restriction before Pine.
It was Pine in 956 saying he mirrored ofhrz, not vice-versa.

At every stage of the game, save for Pine's fullclaim at 1701 (which came before ofhrz's fullclaim which is later), it was ofhrz claiming FIRST. Not second, not after Pine. FIRST.

[mastina]

still think mastina's more likely to be town than you. you keeping your options open on me when I'm objectively cleared feels like you know you might need to 1v1 me to win this game.

And Ausuka's posts don't give you similar alarm bells?

[mastina]

i think it's really obvious that ausuka isn't the scum here

Why?

[mastina]

if mastina is scum roleblocker this game is nastily townsided
if ausuka is scum roleblocker this game is slightly scumsided
if ofrhz is scum roleblocker the game seems mostly fine balance wise

xyzzy games tend to be slightly scumsided, so.
Guess which of these I believe?

[mastina]

has xyzzy ever included or talked about including factional scum powers in their games before?

As far as I know? No.

[mastina]

how opposed am I to just leaving my vote on ofrhz and seeing if mastina hammers

Considering that I'm like 90% going to vote Ausuka right now and only 9% ofhrz? Sure feel free to confirm me as town because yeah I'm not hammering there.

[mastina]

I straight up don’t get how you think Mastina’s role isn’t the odd one out in this balance theory crafting
People keep saying she’s confirmed buttttt not really

I pretty much am though.

This is my towngame through and through and at every stage of the game it's been me as town.

The scum this game have just not been playing to scumastina's modus operandi even remotely. Who they've killed, when they've killed them, what actions they've taken (for instance I wouldn't have roleblocked nom in the first place and would've let nom vig N1), none of it lines up to my scumplay even remotely.

What I have done is vastly, VASTLY different from what I do as scum; how I approach and everything I did is something that just never occurs to me as scum.

I'm as obvtown as is possible given that I am mastina. I know that me being mastina being obvtown to the level of true clear is literally impossible; what I COULD do as scum means that ANY game COULD be scumastina. But yet I am still as obvtown as I can get when I am obvtown. Because just because scumastina COULD do something doesn't mean that in reality she actually WOULD.

[mastina]

no one said that mastina was confirmed town
today was always between ofrhz/mastina

VOTE: Ausuka
You were saying?

[mastina]

both ELA and PP have literally one mention of or interaction with ofrhz in their iso and thee ELA one feels completely unnecessary and the PP one feels like they're trying to show that they're in conflict

Hey RC.
Look at EeveeLution Army and PenguinPower's mentions or interactions with...literally any of the scummers alive.

Who.
Me.
Ausuka.
ofhrz.

Notice something?

Oh yeah pretty much universally between both of them they have jackshit in the mention of ANYONE.

So that's not a point against ofhrz.

[mastina]

ofrhz also managed to vote both of penguinpower and ELA on the first day and was voting one of the two of them for almost all of the day.
they voted roster when they were getting wagoned but then unvoted for "hey look im so protown" reasons and ended up not being on the wagon at eod despite being a claimed scumread.
the rest of the time they spent vanity wagoning.

d2 they lampshaded the roleblocked vigilante by immediately asking about it then literally 0 engages with ELA. Even though the guilty was somewhat questionable they don't give a stance. they just voted them and then fluffposted until the day ended. they didn't comment on mastina's retraction of the guilty either.

You know basically all of this applies to Ausuka as well, right?

[mastina]

and yeah. ofrhz did nothing today, and their explanation of why they were scumreading us despite us being objectively conftown by role is that we were scumreading their slot.
so...

Counterpoint: Ausuka's doing even less than ofhrz.
So.

[mastina]

Wait why's the game still ongoing then

The game's still ongoing because you're fucking suggesting a possibility that's a literal impossibility and the answer is that it's just not the fucking case. Bam. Answered.

[mastina]

Wait why's the game still ongoing then

MOD: Hypothetically if there were four players alive, one being a hated mafiate, one being a mafia traitor, and two town players...would the game be called?

BAM.

That easy to establish.

[mastina]

Or maybe some sort of white flag and there's no traitor?

White flag?

You mean the mechanic where scum win when they achieve parity and lose when there's only one scum left?

That setup mechanic?

The one which is proven to be impossible to have its conditions exist?

[mastina]

Mastina if you don't vote Ofrhz in your next post I'm voting you.

Yeah go ahead and gamethrow if you want.

I'll take absolutely zero fucking blame.

Not. one. fucking. iota.

You can place absolutely 0% of it on me.
For not fucking voting town.

For not fucking humoring your fucking paranoia.

In a fucking lylo game.

I'm going to vote for scum.
If I thought ofhrz was scum I would vote him.
I don't.
The more ofhrz posts the more he looks like town; the more Ausuka posts the more she looks like scum.

[mastina]

mastina if you don't catch up today i'm voting you.

Mastina if you don't vote Ofrhz in your next post I'm voting you.

Yeah go ahead and gamethrow if you want.

I'll take absolutely zero fucking blame.

Not. one. fucking. iota.

You can place absolutely 0% of it on me.
For not fucking voting town.

For not fucking humoring your fucking paranoia.

In a fucking lylo game.

I'm going to vote for scum.
If I thought ofhrz was scum I would vote him.
I don't.
The more ofhrz posts the more he looks like town; the more Ausuka posts the more she looks like scum.

[mastina]

why

are you so sure that ofrhz is town?

I did my fucking analysis, that's why.

At every stage, there were many reasons which fit with ofhrz as being town.
At every stage, there were many reasons which suggested that the question--in spite of my townread on your slot--shouldn't be "ofhrz or Ausuka", but rather "Who or Ausuka".
At every stage today, ofhrz's posts have just felt town overwhelmingly, strongly, town. He's just been feeling like he's town. He's just been feeling like everything he's been doing, been saying, his approach, doesn't come from scum. I thought at the start of today that with his posting there was a very real chance he was scum; for the entire game, I thought his posts could come from scum. But the more and more I read, the more and more I see, the less and less that actually feels right. My scumread of ofhrz was based around basically the feeling of him being active lurking scum keeping his options open, yet the more and more I read the less and less that looked to be true.

At every stage, it looked like he was genuinely contributing with thoughts coming from town.

I know, from my own experience, how town players reacted to PenguinPower's claim. They wanted to spam the game out to at least 200 pages, maybe even aim for the longshot nigh-impossible goal of 1000 pages. I know this because that's what I felt; I know it's what ofhrz felt because it's what he did. And yet Ausuka alone stands out as the only slot who didn't. (If I recall correctly, Who was involved in the spam and/or you were involved in the spam though I may be mistaken there and need to double-check it butstill.)

Scum, knowing what PenguinPower's real role was, and knowing that PenguinPower was faking a guilty, wouldn't feel the need, the inclination, to partake in the spam because they knew that PenguinPower was scum. But town didn't know PenguinPower was scum. So town treated PenguinPower's claim as if it were real and tried to make the most of his claimed role. ofhrz very much did that.

From every angle, ofhrz feels like town the more and more I see.

What he's doing today, what he's thinking, who he's pushing, it feels town. ofhrz thought that I was scum more than anyone else and yet ofhrz as scum would know that his best chance at getting a mislynch would be to target Ausuka--the reason why he'd know that is because he'd know that I was townreading you (I made this quite clear yesterday) so I wouldn't vote you and thus lynching you would be impossible. Thus his only options would be Ausuka or me, and yet he townread Ausuka and thought Ausuka was the least likely to be scum.

Whereas Ausuka literally is fucking sheeping you because she knows that as long as you don't vote her, she wins. She can vote me, she can vote ofhrz, doesn't matter. She can win either way. Especially since prior to recently I was scumreading ofhrz. I thought he was scum so very realistically could have voted him. You thought he was scum enough to vote him.

I think ofhrz is town and Ausuka is scum just because it's what makes the most sense and is what I feel.

[mastina]

Hey Mastina if you force me to lynch you over ofrhz and you're town then the loss wasn't on me, it was on

YOU

.

No, the fault lies on the player who votes town and lets scum hammer town. Don't try to fucking shift blame.

If ofhrz is scum, then you can convince me of that.

I saw ofhrz as scum for the whole fucking game. I saw ofhrz as scum before, so I can see it again. If he actually is.

But I don't fucking think he is because that's not what everything in the game tells me.

[mastina]

you know full well that I'm a way better scumhunter than you.

Sure you are!
You're better.
Doesn't make you infallible.
Doesn't mean I can't have correct reads.
Doesn't mean that in fucking lylo I am going to blindly sheep you when every peace of evidence, every bit of gut, every bit of analysis, every bit of reasoning I can think of, even listening to the dead players, tells me not to.

Fuck your record. You won't win me over by appealing to it.

You'll win me over by appealing to the evidence and the facts.

Not "sheep me I'm right".

Not "you're fucking wrong".
Not "you don't vote with me, I vote you".

If ofhrz is scum, then you can convince me, off of mechanics, off of balance, off of NKA, off of reasoning, off of posting, off of meta, off of everything, off of reasons, that he is scum. And you literally have all the fucking time in the world to do it. No deadlines. You could spend months asking me to read ofhrz's meta extensively. Word by word ask me to read every towngame of his and every scumgame of his. We'd have the time for me to fucking do that.

You could spend months asking me to read Ausuka's meta extensively. Work by word ask me to read every towngame of hers and every scumgame of hers. We'd have the time for me to fucking do that.

And I firmly believe that given sufficient time, given sufficient analysis, who is scum would be clear.

Yet right now.

Off of all the analysis I've done.
It just looks like Ausuka.

[mastina]

I've done all I'm doing to convince you, Mastina.

And it's not enough because it's not talking to me on my fucking terms.

It's demanding to be sheeped.

And fuck no you. don't. get. that. in. lylo.

If this were before lylo you bet your ass I'd give it to you in a heartbeat.

But it is lylo.

And when in a lylo.
There's only two ways I act.
I either cast a vote because I am so sure someone's scum that I'll instantly eat the loss if I'm wrong.
Or I take until literally the last minute to hammer someone because I'm that much not sure.
Given that this game has no 'last minute', I can take as much time as is necessary to vote. I'm voting Ausuka right now mostly because it works as a statement and there's no hammer risk because Ausuka won't self-hammer and even if ofhrz voted Ausuka you wouldn't hammer her so I know I can do so safely. (In fact I'd actually just prefer if he did vote Ausuka because that way either you're scum, you win, and I take the blame for the loss, and we can be done with this game and move on...or you become conftown and thus fully and entirely 100% limit it to only ofhrz/Ausuka.)

But the principle still applies there.
I can take as much time as is necessary to come to my conclusions.
So fuck your insistence on ending it now.
You want it to end now, you're not going to have that happen with an ofhrz lynch. You want it to end with a scum lynch, you take time. You walk me through in every way why scum are scum and town are town. If I don't see ofhrz as scum I won't vote for ofhrz.

But it really shouldn't be hard for you to convince me ofhrz is scum if he really is--because, again. I saw him as scum for most of the game and can see him as scum again quite easily I imagine. I just flat-out outright

don't

right now because nothing seems to fit with him as scum and lots fits with Ausuka as scum.

I realize that in lylo, every player has reasons to be town; every player has reasons to be scum. But the scum have the most reason to be scum and the town have more reasons to be town. And right now all I see is ofhrz has fairly good, compelling reasons to be town; Ausuka has fairly good, compelling, reasons to be scum.

[mastina]

Not "you don't vote with me, I vote you".

when i'm conftown this should literally be all that matters.

Fuck your record. You won't win me over by appealing to it.

You'll win me over by appealing to the evidence and the facts.

Not "sheep me I'm right".

Not "you're fucking wrong".
Not "you don't vote with me, I vote you".

If ofhrz is scum, then you can convince me, off of mechanics, off of balance, off of NKA, off of reasoning, off of posting, off of meta, off of everything, off of reasons, that he is scum. And you literally have all the fucking time in the world to do it. No deadlines. You could spend months asking me to read ofhrz's meta extensively. Word by word ask me to read every towngame of his and every scumgame of his. We'd have the time for me to fucking do that.

You could spend months asking me to read Ausuka's meta extensively. Work by word ask me to read every towngame of hers and every scumgame of hers. We'd have the time for me to fucking do that.

And I firmly believe that given sufficient time, given sufficient analysis, who is scum would be clear.

Yet right now.

Off of all the analysis I've done.
It just looks like Ausuka.

RC in a battle of stubbornness you will fucking lose.
I won't budge by your browbeating.

You want me to vote ofhrz then fucking CONVINCE me to vote ofhrz.

Yelling at me in ten different ways to vote ofhrz because you're right?

That won't work.
And you fucking know it won't work. You've seen me be stubborn as shit. You've seen how absolute I am when I take stances like this.

You want me to vote ofhrz?
Then show me why ofhrz is scum.
Don't shout at me that he is scum.

[mastina]

btw i already cased ofrhz and you just said "NO AUSUKA DID THIS MORE" even when it didn't apply at all, so.

But it does? Like. I can quote the shit Ausuka did that you're using as reasons ofhrz is scum.

There's a damn fucking good reason why Ausuka and ofhrz were similarly scum in my readslist for the whole fucking game; it's because they did almost the same shit for the whole fucking game. Almost. Not quite. There's differences--and those differences are where the alignment comes in.

You're telling me shit ofhrz did indicates he's scum, when Ausuka did that same shit; you're focusing on things which are the same between them, not what's different.

And I realize that two players doing the same thing can be a towntell for one and a scumtell for another--yet you're not showing me why Ausuka doing it was town and ofhrz doing it was scum, so you're not doing this, either.

[mastina]

if you can't make someone vote scum
what else can you do

If ofhrz is scum RC can make me vote him by actually fucking convincing me not shouting at me.

[mastina]

like, if mastina refuses to vote ofrhz, you don't have much a choice.

I refuse to vote ofhrz because RC says so.
I refuse to vote ofhrz for reasoning that doesn't actually hold, as far as I can tell, as actually being scum-indicative.
That doesn't mean I can't vote him.
But right now all the evidence I have points to him being more likely town and that's why I currently won't.

[mastina]

unless ofrhz is traitor and mastina flipped out about the implausibility of that because it was true.

Alternatively: I follow occam's razor and literally wrote a fucking article about following probabilities instead of possibilities.

But yaknow.
You decide.

"ofrhz is governor, ausuka can't do that!"

Actually given that ofhrz claimed,
1: That his role doesn't work right now, and
2: That even if it did it'd result in a no lynch, Ausuka could in fact hammer and have it end the game because of no govern...and even if there were one, via my hated not going away in lylo, a forced no lynch to prevent a lynch (i.e., a successful use of a govern) = town loses.

Which means:

Not hammering

This is in fact proof Ausuka is town--100%, undeniable, infallible, cannot-be-false, is-completely-inarguable, final evidence beyond any shadow of a doubt that Ausuka is town.

VOTE: ofhrz.

Now, granted.
I still maintain my stance. While this is in fact the

strongest possible

proof/evidence of Ausuka being town, it was also the most extreme. RC was fucking stupid to have risked the game on it--yes, it worked; yes, it's undeniable once it did work; yes nothing's stronger than it when it did work, but the simple fact of the matter was, he didn't need to go to that extreme, he didn't need to take a "dangerous shortcut" as it were to the final product and he

should

have fucking convinced me with logic.

Not convinced me with risking the game and pulling it off.

On that note:

Oh yeah I have a question mastina
Why were you not okay to vote Ofrhz but okay with having Ausuka hammer tested?

I don't recall ever saying I was okay with having Ausuka hammertested. Please point out where I indicate that; I'll wait.

In fact.

Quite the opposite.

I clearly remember saying that you voting me--which, by proxy, INCLUDES hammertesting--, in my exact words, would be "fucking gamethrowing". Want me to quote that post(s)? Because I was pretty unambiguous here in saying why you shouldn't be voting me for any reason and if you did the loss was on you not me.

It happened to work out, sure. But it was still fucking stupid to do.

[mastina]

Didn't do anything to stop it either

Oh what can I do to stop you from voting me, pray tell?

Do I have any magical power to prevent it?

Your vote is yours. Not mine. There's nothing I could do to fucking stop it; what I could do was voice how it'd be entirely on you which is exactly what I did.

[mastina]

Like if she'd rather lose than see Ofrhz lynched supposedly you would think she would deal with this situation differently

No I want to win.

I made that unambiguous.

I thought that voting ofhrz was a loss.

That doesn't mean "I'd rather lose than see ofhrz be lynched", it means that I fucking think "I think that lynching ofhrz is a loss". I was VERY unambiguous about that.

[mastina]

I would've conceded by now

As a rule I don't concede as scum because conceding as scum is fucking stupid; it's not a loss until the mod declares it to be one and almost any situation is, theoretically, winnable--this game especially so given that SOME idiot fuck thinks that the game could be fucking 9:4 with a hated scum roleblocker and traitor in spite of the overwhelming evidence against that stupid-ass theory, and thus could easily vote for the hated townie, resulting in a chance for scum to hammer.

[mastina]

hi I'm here
what's the easiest way to scumside this game

Convince people that the idea of 9:4 with a hated roleblocker-traitor remaining scumteam in 4p is in any way possible and that you should vote for the fucking hated townie.

[mastina]

Don’t hammer if you’re town

Nancy's part of RCs hydra; if they were scum, you'd be hammered.
Ausuka if scum would've hammered me.
So.
You're confscum for not voting me here.