Mini 635: WOMAFIA - Forbiddanlight + Vagina-Haters win!

[ThAdmiral]

Hadn't realised this had started.

I agree that claiming day one as miller is probably the best strategy. This does not mean that gurgi isn't simply lying.

Was there any flavour behind why a douchebag would be a miller?

[ThAdmiral]

The flavour makes sense so I'm going to treat gurgi as a confirmed town from here on in.

Still haven't decided who I think is scummy though.

[ThAdmiral]

@ treating him as confirmed town: He has a believable claim so I'm pretty happy to treat him as confirmed town. I'm not saying he

is

confirmed town - if there is reason for suspicion in the future then I will obviously look at gurgi again. But for now I am definitely not going to suspect him, which helps round down the people that I may suspect.

If you don't think it's a good idea you don't have to do it, but I am.

[ThAdmiral]

Mariyta: I think people are misunderstanding her a bit (as I sometimes feel like that as well), but I do wonder why she has decided to change her style in this game. Generally scum play more cautiously, but to be honest I'm not feeling it.

Farside: I wonder why Lord Gurgi normally reads farside as town because I normally read her as scum, and this game is no different. I'm not sure how often she has been scum in games I've been in, but she tends to throw votes around, misinterpret people and attack perhaps a bit more aggressively than necessary - and that seems scummy to me.

[ThAdmiral]

My thoughts on meta is that it is overrated.

Completely agree. And while I say I generally think you act scumilly I also realise that this is just how you play - hence me not voting you right now.

Admiral: what are we misunderstanding? That she's scared of drawing attention to herself by "overreacting"? Why defend her?

Sometimes people don't talk because they can't think of anything to say. This may be because they haven't been able to get on as much and really take a good look at the game, or because whenever they think of something to say they realise that someone else has already said it or a number of other reasons. As I said this sort of thing has happened to me quite a few times in the past; in some games I'm very talkative and in others I'm a bit of a wall flower. Basically I don't think it's a very good indication of whether someone is scum or not.

[ThAdmiral]

@ farside: we've been in a few games together if I recall correctly. I'd say 3-4. The hockey one is one of them.

And when I say I pretty much always think you're scummy I also realise that this doesn't make you scum - essentially I have to factor in your natural scumminess when I'm deciding how suspicious you are.

@ mith: so do you think mariyta is scummy? Or do you think she is just avoiding conversation? (and therefore scummy?)

If not why are you voting her? (pressure?)

[ThAdmiral]

Admiral: Mith is not in this game. I am voting her because I believe it is the best place for my vote for the time being. She is acting scummy enough to warrant attention. I cannot say yet whether she is scummy enough to merit a lynch as it is only page 7 and we spent lots of the first few pages just joking. So not very much content yet.

whooops @ the name thing!

Fair enough on the vote. It is day one I suppose.

@ vivdark: when I say that meta is overrated I mean I overrated as a way to tell if someone is scum or town in a certain game. Mainly because people generally play in a similar way, but even if they don't they might have a legitimate reason for it (they aren't able to get on as much, they are learning or trying out something new etc.). I'm not going to ignore the games I've played with farside, but at the same time I'm not going to claim I can "read her like a book" or that "she's obvscum cos she said the same thing in this other game where she was scum" or something like that.

[ThAdmiral]

Scum don't always wagon jump at random for oppurtunisms sake. I know that I don't do this when I'm scum. Neither do a lot of other players.

I do find this post rather scummy though. Mostly for the second line. Why did you feel the need to say your play style as scum?

I think it's there to act as evidence based off personal experience to support the claim. I don't really see anything scummy in it.

ThAdmiral

isn’t voting, but is actually contributing relatively well. ThAdmiral, who do you think is most suspicious at the moment?

Darla captured my attention early (no, not with her vibrant eyes) by going pretty hard after the miller. This quote in particular seems a bit off for me:

I didn't mean now.

Jeez.

If i did don't you think I would have voted him?

and I DID say, "If no one else proves scummier" meaning after a lot more discussion.

Damn you women are jumpy. xD

All I am saying is that after we've exhausted d1, if no one is REALLY scummy, that LG would be the best lynch, because its win win either way.

If he is lying we hit scum, If he isn't, we rid ourselves of the Future WIFOM argument and don't lynch a PR.

But it seems she doesn't want to talk about that topic any more so I'm not going to strangle a dead horse.

I'm also rather, well suspicious isn't the right word...I think it's funny that you (falcone) are doing the most talking, the most analysis, and throwing around the most suspicion yet your vote ends up as, essentially, a lurker vote.

[ThAdmiral]

Well I'd kill Spacecase, otherwise xyzzy. They aren't helping the town, and I doubt they will be lynched for it. By fire be purged and all that.

Anyway, can we get everyone to give a top 3 scumlist and townlist? Anyone who puts themselves on their townlist I will vote for.

Scum
1. Farside22
2. FaerieLord
3. Nonny

Town
1. ThAdmiral
2. Elvis_Knits
3. Mirth

That's it. Maybe this will start some decent discussion.

Yeah I don't like doing these either because it just gives the scum a nice target to shoot at. On the other hand they do always result in discussion, but I think we are going okay without at the moment. Perhap these are better implemented when discussion has died.

I am loving the fact that I'm townier than the mod though!

[ThAdmiral]

I would but the only real lead I have is darla blue eyes. The others are just lurkers and gut feelings and guesses basically. Although a few of spacecase's recent posts have caught my eye, in particular:

that seems like a waste of a lynch LG. I have my answer now. I'd lynch LG if it came down to it.

I think it is a bit strong to go after LG for that, given that lurker lynches are not the worst idea day one (although they're not a great one) and furthermore LG is not the only person going after lurkers.

[ThAdmiral]

ThAdmiral - post 70 agrees with miller claim d1, but doesn't mean LG is lying. Post 85 feels the flavor of LG is more townie. What changed your mind from one post to the other?

Someone explained the flavor behind it and it seemed to make sense for me.

In fact (and this is to nonny as well) it made so much sense that I was inclined to treat it as an essentially confirmed role. Lets just say if it is in fact made up, well done Lord Gurgi.

It's a gut feeling. As I said, twice, something inside made me think a vote for FL was the right way to go. If I knew why, I would've said so.

I also am not liking the gut feeling. I can sense that you don't want to talk about it and that you say that you are not sure why you feel it, but have a think about it and you might realise there is reason behind it.

Until then though I don't like it.

[ThAdmiral]

I believe I already answered that, I'm not pushing your wagon at the moment, not anymore than saying I'm sure at any rate, but as soon as you slip up, I'll be there.

I know I have you pegged as near-certain town, but this is just bad.
I hope you're joking or something.

[ThAdmiral]

Why would you rather push a Mariyta case tomorrow if you think she's the most suspicious today?

There seems to be a general lack of logic in this game, but then again we are all supposed to be women so that makes sense

[ThAdmiral]

Darla, thanks for ignoring my request not to list possible townies. Really appreciate it.

unvote:Spacecase
vote: Nonny

What list? You've barely offered an opinion all game, I don't like this, this smells of oppurtunism.

Mirth

, your attempt to derail the bandwagon on Spacecase less than four days before the deadline by unvoting him to instead vote for nonny, who clearly isn't going to be lynched today, is noted.

Also, for what it's worth, I disagree with you that posting a list of "probably protown players" is more helpful to the scum than to the town.

Spacecase

, claim please.

And your ignoring Nonny's jump onto the wagon when it started to become apparent that Spacecase might have more support than Darla is also noted. We have a whole 4 days before deadline. I'm not going to waste that time ignoring everything aside from the major wagon just because thats the easy thing to do.

Completely agree with mirth here. Furthermore

Fos: falcone

for asking for a claim at -3.

Uhh wow Mason seems like a totally random claim. Maybe the scum planned to claim mason in the case that one was being lynched?

Depending on who confirms will affect my suspicions I suppose.

fos: dbe

- it looks like you are implying you would like the partner to claim.

[ThAdmiral]

@ spacecase: explanation for not knowing who your partner is seconded. Also would you be able to give us an idea of the flavor behind your role - i.e. why you are a mason.

also

vote: darlablueeyes

who has seemed most scummy to me for the day.

[ThAdmiral]

ThAdmiral in these pages starts looking bad with the hypocrisy, and I'd have my eye on him.

Less hypocrisy, more misunderstanding (as in you misunderstanding me). I may have explained myself a bit more in later posts but If you still don't get what I'm saying I guess I can explain it again.


@ spacecase find-a-buddy mason claim: I think I've played in a game with a role like this before, but don't ask me which game. I trust it and I also distrust it in regards to whether it might be a scum fake claim.

trust - it's a slightly riskier claim than a simple mason claim as it will invite suspicion.

distrust - it's a slightly less risky claim as if pressured he would not have to name a buddy (which would be a scum partner). This helps for two reasons: 1. if he claims a bud who is scum he is screwed. 2. if he is caught as scum his bud is screwed.

I'm leaning towards trusting it though.

[ThAdmiral]

Admiral, your reasoning is wrong. I will explain why after Spacecase tells us if he needs to a) find a specific person or he can recruit anyone, b) if alignment is modconfirmed c) posts a picture.

Which bit in particular?

[ThAdmiral]

I meant to bold the first bit of the quote...

[ThAdmiral]

I'm loving forbiddanlights level of content, but those long posts are...long.

I don't really have anything else to say right now. Most of the people I'm suspicious of haven't spoken in a while.

[ThAdmiral]

I'm loving forbiddanlights level of content, but those long posts are...long.

I don't really have anything else to say right now. Most of the people I'm suspicious of haven't spoken in a while.

I hate this post. It's 3 sentences long and says nothing.

Yeah, but I admit that.

And I didn't have anything to say...

list:
1. darla
2. falcone

actually I don't like this idea at all

fos: mirth

for suggesting it

[ThAdmiral]

It just seems like something the scum could agree to go through with if it was going to hit town, but derail it and say it was a stupid idea if it was going to hit one of theirs.

I am interested in seeing where it goes though, hence me submitting my list.

[ThAdmiral]

That's a humorous role.

I like the flavour behind it.

I am very inclined to believe it (just like gurgi's)

[ThAdmiral]

well this thread has certainly taken an...interesting direction.

by the way am I the only one that doesn't like the bear as much as the others?

[ThAdmiral]

I think the speed at which this wagon has formed is suspicious. Especially since there was hardly any/no case on farside yesterday - and now everybody supposedly agrees that she is definite scum.

One page after the new day is announced Farside is already at -3 (falcone should be asking for a claim any time now!), and forbiddan is warning people not to hammer. It seems like almost a foregone conclusion that she will be lynched.

[ThAdmiral]

I'm personally not convinced by falcones case (especially because it also goes as far to suggest that lord gurgi is the scum partner). And I still don't understand why, if you were trying to get the town to look at a farside lynch, you wouldn't have actually mentioned it yesterday.

[ThAdmiral]

I am suspicious because I don't agree with you?

And all I can remember you saying yesterday is that you thought farside was scummy. No case, just that.
If you had posted what you did today then that would have been different, but you didn't.

On top of this I find it odd that you were so sure of farside being scum yesterday, but switched over to darla and in fact hammered Darla. And today you've been acting like you have been after farside the whole time and it was the towns fault that we got sidetracked and lynched darla and that you shouldn't have to share any of the responsibility for that.

And on the lord gurgi thing: if he's scum I'll eat my hat. The claim is way too solid in my eyes.

[ThAdmiral]

The flavor of the claim (and more importantly the humour) fits in perfectly with the game in my opinion.
If it's fake it's pretty much the best fake claim I've ever seen.

@falcone: went back and had a look at your post d1. I now see that you did have a case on farside which you put forth earlier in the day. However later in the day you either dismissed or stopped responding to posts that farside wrote in relation to your arguments, then jumped off her because you didn't feel that the you had convinced enough people (which probably has something to do with the way you went about convinving, i.e just telling people to vote for her), then hammered the person you're prime suspect was voting.

It doesn't seem like the behavior of someone who believes in their case all that strongly.


@forbiddan light: do you think that my assertation that lg is town is a scummy act? If so why? If I was scum would there be anything to gain from it if I was right? I would be able to say "I told you so", but that's about it, as I would most certainly be under heavy suspicion.

[ThAdmiral]

blah

As far as I can tell the only case you're pushing on me is that I don't throw votes around day one.

@forbiddanlight - It may be wifom but that just means it is a null tell.
Furthermore I wasn't aware lg was under any suspicion apart from falcone's rather lofty (and rather unlikely) case.
Let me put it this way: if falcone is right about farside and LG being scumpartners, I'll eat my hat.

[ThAdmiral]

@ forbiddanlight - to address your point about me saying stuff that runs COUNTER to stuff I've said before: the more I thought about it the more I believed LG's claim. I don't think I'm contradicting myself, I've just slightly altered my position.

[ThAdmiral]

Let me summarize my case against you for you:

• 1)
  Wishy washy
  stances.
  2)
  Fence sitting
  .
  3) Active
  lurking
  .
  4)
  Lack of
  scum-hunting.
  5)
  Misrepresentation of
  facts not just once but a number of times which leads me to believe it was deliberate.
  6) That
  terrible, horrible, no
  good,
  dirty
  DBE vote
  when you clearly didn't voice any opinions about her throughout Day 1.
  
  7) Theory discussion and
  not
  much else.

Fixed

[ThAdmiral]

That defense was god horrible, ThAdmiral. I am really tempted to vote you for it

Go ahead.

That defense was god horrible, ThAdmiral. I am really tempted to vote you for it

Go ahead.


Warning: you will look worse when I tear the attack on me to shreds.

[ThAdmiral]

Good, good. Vote you little sheep. I wonder if any of you actually read incognito's post or just saw that it was long and assumed it was correct.

Now I will explain how the case in question was opportunistic, misleading and ultimately WRONG!

I should mention that I'm getting really bad vibes from ThAdmiral.

Note this comes right after I was in the spotlight with Falcone, forbiddanlight and lord gurgi expressing suspicions of me.
How convenient.

Reading his posts in isolation

don't really give me the feeling that he's leaned one way or another on anyone this whole game:

I've highlighted this line as it is truer than intended. Incognito

does

often read my posts in isolation, and ignores posts before or after that would damage her case, as you will see.

@ treating him as confirmed town: He has a believable claim so I'm pretty happy to treat him as confirmed town. I'm not saying he

is

confirmed town - if there is reason for suspicion in the future then I will obviously look at gurgi again. But for now I am definitely not going to suspect him, which helps round down the people that I may suspect.

If you don't think it's a good idea you don't have to do it, but I am.

Discussion about the miller claim which isn't necessarily a bad thing as it was the hot topic at the time.

I believe this could be defined as taking a stance. Incognito forgets about this incident fairly quickly.

But then we get this:

Mariyta: I think people are misunderstanding her a bit (as I sometimes feel like that as well), but I do wonder why she has decided to change her style in this game. Generally scum play more cautiously, but to be honest I'm not feeling it.

Farside: I wonder why Lord Gurgi normally reads farside as town because I normally read her as scum, and this game is no different. I'm not sure how often she has been scum in games I've been in, but she tends to throw votes around, misinterpret people and attack perhaps a bit more aggressively than necessary - and that seems scummy to me.

A very fence sitting, wishy-washy post. I don't like how when he's analyzing Mariyta, he seems to defend her by mentioning that people may be misinterpreting her but then he still makes sure to throw some dirt in her direction anyway. His comment about farside doesn't really say much to me either. He seems to be discussing his history playing with farside22 but doesn't seem to reach a conclusion about what her play here might say about her alignment which is usually the reason someone brings up meta-history

in the first place

.

This is a classic example of taking something quite innocuous and warping its meaning to make it seem scummy. While I thought it was obvious that I was simply voicing my opinions, Incognito believes (or is attempting to convince others to believe) that I carefully planned to both defend and throw dirt on these players. To what ends? So that I might later attack or defend these players depending on which way popular opinion flows without recieving suspicion?
Hmm. Did I ever actually do either of those things?

Furthermore it seems incognito is suggesting that every single post that one makes in a mafia game must either attack someone or defend them, and if it doesn't do either it is scummy!

My thoughts on meta is that it is overrated.

Completely agree. And while I say I generally think you act scumilly I also realise that this is just how you play - hence me not voting you right now.

Admiral: what are we misunderstanding? That she's scared of drawing attention to herself by "overreacting"? Why defend her?

Sometimes people don't talk because they can't think of anything to say. This may be because they haven't been able to get on as much and really take a good look at the game, or because whenever they think of something to say they realise that someone else has already said it or a number of other reasons. As I said this sort of thing has happened to me quite a few times in the past; in some games I'm very talkative and in others I'm a bit of a wall flower. Basically I don't think it's a very good indication of whether someone is scum or not.

Another one of those "hey guys, you can't say I'm lurking" posts that pretty much says next to nothing about anyone. I would also like to note that by this post, ThAdmiral had yet to place a vote on anyone. *Little to no scum-hunting from him.

Complete misrepresentation here. I was responding to other peoples comments/questions and was, once again, giving my opinion. Which in incognito's mind is obviously scummy, or at least is clearly flying under the radar - and therefore scummy. Much more scummy than people who were actually lurking anyway...

I particularly love the last line with the *. Talk about a witch hunt! Not only everything I do is scummy, but everything I don't do is scummy as well.

@ farside: we've been in a few games together if I recall correctly. I'd say 3-4. The hockey one is one of them.

And when I say I pretty much always think you're scummy I also realise that this doesn't make you scum - essentially I have to factor in your natural scumminess when I'm deciding how suspicious you are.

@ mith: so do you think mariyta is scummy? Or do you think she is just avoiding conversation? (and therefore scummy?)

If not why are you voting her? (pressure?)

This post was actually one of ThAdmiral's better posts as he at least finally asks some why, what, where, who, how questions. The problem though is these types of posts are very hard to come by from him in this game.

Here incognito realizes that this post goes against his case so, to avoid looking like he's contradicting himself, he simply points out that this is the exception to the rule. And the rule is I'm scum.

ThAdmiral

isn’t voting, but is actually contributing relatively well. ThAdmiral, who do you think is most suspicious at the moment?

Darla captured my attention early (no, not with her vibrant eyes) by going pretty hard after the miller. This quote in particular seems a bit off for me:

I didn't mean now.

Jeez.

If i did don't you think I would have voted him?

and I DID say, "If no one else proves scummier" meaning after a lot more discussion.

Damn you women are jumpy. xD

All I am saying is that after we've exhausted d1, if no one is REALLY scummy, that LG would be the best lynch, because its win win either way.

If he is lying we hit scum, If he isn't, we rid ourselves of the Future WIFOM argument and don't lynch a PR.

But it seems she doesn't want to talk about that topic any more so I'm not going to strangle a dead horse.

I'm also rather, well suspicious isn't the right word...I think it's funny that you (falcone) are doing the most talking, the most analysis, and throwing around the most suspicion yet your vote ends up as, essentially, a lurker vote.

I really dislike this post. ThAdmiral hadn't mentioned a word about DarlaBlueEyes at any point in the game prior to Falcone's question but when Falcone questions him about his complete lack of votes all game, he seems to hint that she's his top suspect... except he doesn't. He again includes a "but" sentence that leads me to believe that he is once again attempting to fence-sit. I should note that I believe DBE was the vote leader at the time and therefore under the most pressure. Also of note: ThAdmiral points out a post that he dislikes of DBE's but doesn't actually say what it is he dislikes about it. He just kinda puts it out there as if the quote alone will say enough by itself. He also throws a little dirt at Falcone at the end of this post by completely misinterpreting Falcone's vote. Falcone specifically mentioned prior to this post that he still found farside22 to be the most suspicious but that he wanted some of the lurkers to produce more content.

Wait a second - didn't you say you were suspicious of me when I wasn't scumhunting? And now you're suspicious when I am?
*Stamp* Hypocrisy! *Stamp*
Incognito states that it is suspicious that I list darla without having mentioned her before. 2 things: I have to mention her first somewhere, and do you think it might be possible that I was thinking things about certain people that I didn't immediately write down in the game?

Darla, thanks for ignoring my request not to list possible townies. Really appreciate it.

unvote:Spacecase
vote: Nonny

What list? You've barely offered an opinion all game, I don't like this, this smells of oppurtunism.

Mirth

, your attempt to derail the bandwagon on Spacecase less than four days before the deadline by unvoting him to instead vote for nonny, who clearly isn't going to be lynched today, is noted.

Also, for what it's worth, I disagree with you that posting a list of "probably protown players" is more helpful to the scum than to the town.

Spacecase

, claim please.

And your ignoring Nonny's jump onto the wagon when it started to become apparent that Spacecase might have more support than Darla is also noted. We have a whole 4 days before deadline. I'm not going to waste that time ignoring everything aside from the major wagon just because thats the easy thing to do.

Completely agree with mirth here. Furthermore

Fos: falcone

for asking for a claim at -3.

Uhh wow Mason seems like a totally random claim. Maybe the scum planned to claim mason in the case that one was being lynched?

Depending on who confirms will affect my suspicions I suppose.

fos: dbe

- it looks like you are implying you would like the partner to claim.

Odd. Why is asking for a claim prematurely worthy of an FoS especially when the deadline was fairly close anyway? Your FoS of DBE also seemed like deliberate misrepresentation. It seemed like at the time DBE posted the above, it was still unclear among the players as to whether or not Spacecase's (me) mason buddy should confirm that he/she was in fact his buddy. Also, you still can't be bothered to vote?

It should be obvious why asking for a claim prematurely is worthy of a fos. Have you ever heard of fishing? Also 4 days is still quite a lot of time, and furthermore when was falcone appointed "master of claims"?
Dbe was suspicious for similar reasons. Implying the partner should claim = fishing.
Oh wait, I forgot, I'm the only one who has ever done anything scummy in this game.

Here incognito also brings up the fact that I haven't voted yet, which, like everything else, is obviously scummy. It's especially bad since I didn't have a vote on anybody at the end of the day which is what really matters.
Oh wait, I did.

also

vote: darlablueeyes

who has seemed most scummy to me for the day.

Heh. Really? I certainly couldn't tell.

Nice going ignoring this post:

Discussion has sort of died. Why don't you throw up a scum list of your own?

I would but the only real lead I have is darla blue eyes.

as well as others that you

actually included earlier on in your own post

in which I express my suspicion of darla.

I don't really have anything else to say right now. Most of the people I'm suspicious of haven't spoken in a while.

And those people are?

I don't really know what incognito is trying to do here. Perhaps she doesn't either, and just decided to question yet another innocuous post to flesh her case out a little bit more.

Vote: ThAdmiral

I realize that farside22 currently has 3 votes, and I should mention that I don't mind the farside22-hate at all. I found myself nodding along with Falcone's case against her and noticed a few other things about her play that I wasn't particularly fond of. I'll try to get into those things later but at this point in the game, I think a counterwagon might be helpful.

By the way talk about sitting on the fence! I wonder what would happen if the farside wagon took off again...

P.S. I'm not done reading yet, and I will continue voicing my opinions about others hopefully this weekend. I hope you guys aren't just waiting around for me.

Still waiting on those opinions of other players.


In conclusion: incognito's main argument, that I didn't take a stance, is proven wrong not only by many of my other posts (go ahead and have a look and you'll see I take a stance on a number of occasions), but also by incognito herself! She literally contradicts herself every second line!

The only reason I didn't immediately defend myself against this "case" is that it was so clearly stupid I trusted that everyone else would be able to see that as well.
I guess I gave you people a bit too much credit.

[ThAdmiral]

Alright this is getting ridiculous. I could readdress all the points brought up by people but that would just lead to even larger post pyramids. Anyway, I fear forbiddanlight is a lost cause now, and incognito... well I understand that if he changes targets it will probably look more suspicious than staying where he is.


I think more importantly than anything else about the case is that when you actually consider what has been said you realize two things:

1. The main argument that I was wishy-wishy/didn't vote/didn't take a stance (aside from the fact that it isn't true) is a problematic argument.

Firstly it is an assumption. All arguments based on assumptions will ultimately end up as big piles of he said-she said, "yes you did"-"no I didn't" mess. Incognito says I was maliciously setting myself up to have multiple targets depending on where the wind blew, I say (know) that I wasn't.
Secondly it is simply a weak reason to be suspicious of someone. It is an attack of a play style if nothing else. Even though incognito didn't literally say that one needs to be scumhunting at all times (this is to farside) he

is

suggesting that there is only one right way to play the game.

2. There is no actual evidence to back it up.

Even though incognito is convinced I had been wishy-washy so that I could then prey on whichever target was under the spotlight, this has never actually happened. As far as I can tell I chose one main target yesterday and a few other minor ones (all the lurkers and falcone to a small degree) and stuck with it.
And while Incognito said there hasn't been much opportunity to do this as most of the people haven't come under the spotlight, this too is incorrect. Firstly even if this were true it doesn't prove or disprove anything, meaning it is a null tell. Secondly some of those people

have

come under the spotlight! In particular farside, who, instead of attacking when she became a viable target, I actually DEFENDED!

The worst thing about the whole situation is the absolute hypocrisy involved. If anyone is giving themselves multiple options depending on which way the wind blows it is Incognito himself! In fact he proudly states: "I have absolutely no problem with the farside22-wagon and that I would have no problem joining it if the majority decided that she should be the lynch".

@ Incognito: Weighing it all up I have to ask: why do you think that I would need to set up these wishy-washy options for myself in the first place? Do you feel that I would be incapable of attacking someone if I hadn't vaguely mentioned them before? Furthermore if I did want to set up multiple options for myself, wouldn't a more effective way to achieve that be to actually attack multiple people, rather than not?


All in all the case is bollocks. I hope some of the people who haven't weighed in on it yet actually have a brain.

[ThAdmiral]

@ lord gurgi: you know what, you're right.

Not about everything but about the deflection thing. I was doing a bit of that and I regret it. Mainly because (and it frustrates me a lot to say this) I think incognito is probably town. He replaced spacecase, who claimed mason and was backed up by falcone, and it would be basically suicidal for scum to claim mason especially when there was really no need.

I still think he's an idiot.

It's funny because the three people that I disagree with most are the ones I feel are most likely town. Maybe you are all right and I shouldn't be trusting the claims, but sadly I do.

I know what you are going to say - here I am being wishy-washy again. Whatever.

[ThAdmiral]

All I'm saying is is that your current pattern of play seems more consistent with the play of someone who I'd expect to be pro-scum as opposed to pro-town. That's my main argument.

I'd say at worst it is the type of play expected of someone who is just trying to survive by playing it safe. Is that scummy? Yes if they're scum, no if they're town.

Note I don't think I am just trying to stay alive, I'm just saying that this style of play could at worst be interpreted as that.

If you are scum, you basically leave the door ajar to allow yourself room to wiggle away if the popular opinion begins to sway away from believing a person is scum. Effectively you keep your hands clean and actually never really dirty them at the same time. A win-win situation for scum.

I really think this argument loses out on two points: a) I've never been seen to sway based on popular opinion in this game, and have often gone against it, and b) I just don't think that scum would feel the need to do this. They could always just lurk if they wanted to remain out of the spotlight.

ThAdmiral, I still would like to get to know who you think is scum. You've mentioned that you disagree with the people whom you think are town but you have in no way mentioned who you're suspicious of. Please get on that.

You're right. And to be honest (and I think this is due to both the scum playing very well and me not playing very well) I don't really have any strong suspicions. Recently I've been too caught up in defending myself to really look at others.

However if pressured to name names:
Faerielord - for the sniping comments at me and vote when public opinion had turned against me. Seemed opportunistic.
Nonny - not saying much, but pops in to say that she agrees with the wagon on me (and thought that I was scummy yesterday as well).

The strongest actual case is the one of farside and I don't agree with it.

[ThAdmiral]

I don't hate meta, I just think it is overrated as a way to determine whether someone is scum or not, and I don't like to use it.

[ThAdmiral]

@ falcone: that "question" looks like rhetoric to me. But I'll answer it anyway: yes. Of course I do. I voted early and kept my vote on and was definitely one of the main pushers of the darla lynch, which turned out to be incorrect.

And I'll claim when I want, role-nazi.

[ThAdmiral]

Yeah that game was awesome.

@farside: this game frustrates me. There's not enough disagreeing going on. For the most part someone comes up with a case and everyone's just like: "cool, I'll go with that."

So yeah I do think there's been a bit of following.

[ThAdmiral]

So then make a good case and I can personally guarantee I'll look at it. I am on your wagon because of your responses, more than the case. The second any suspicion went your way you blew up into OMGUS, deflection, and strawman.

You make a case! Just because I'm on the chopping block it doesn't mean the responsibility for finding scummy people lies on my head.

See that's another thing about this game - everybody is just sitting around waiting for someone else to do all the work.

You know what, I will make a case. I'll get back to you.