Mini 635: WOMAFIA - Forbiddanlight + Vagina-Haters win!

[Falcone]

Hello everyone.

Vote: Mirth

IGMEOY: Lord Gurgi, FaerieLord

[Falcone]

Reasons for my vote for Mirth:

1. She voted the mod in her first post. I realize it was a joke vote, but not making an arbitrary vote to start the game with can be interpreted as not wanting to make any connection to any other player. This is obviously a very weak reason.

2. She asked Lord Gurgi if his claim was serious or not, then before he responded, stated that it's “theoretically best” to claim at the beginning of the game as a miller, which makes me feel as though she knew the claim was serious beforehand and that she tried to lend credence to the claim. Then, after Lord Gurgi confirmed his claim, she asked for a counterclaim, which seems a very strange thing to do after a miller claim, and again has the implicit connotation of “Well, if there’s no counterclaim, I’ll believe the claim”. Since I don’t see why there can’t be either zero or two or more millers in a game (see for example this thread: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8831), the absence of a counterclaim doesn’t tell us anything about the value of Lord Gurgi’s claim.

3. The “cult recruited” remark, which was very clearly not what farside22 was saying. This was later established to be a mere spelling mistake, which I can accept as explanation.

Furthermore, since I made my vote for her, Mirth seems to have changed her stance on the miller claim:

I would probably wait until twilight day 1, claim doctor or something to get myself NKed or vigged. Depends on the other people in the game really. If they know my "no claims" playstyle, I might do a first thing day 1 claim.

So first she states it’s “theoretically best” for a miller to claim at the start of Day 1, then later she states she “probably” wouldn’t do it if she were a miller herself. That's contradictory.

Happy with my vote for the moment.

Reasons for my IGMEOY’s:

1. Lord Gurgi: His miller claim and the inevitable WIFOM that it brings with it, makes him more likely than average to be scum in my opinion. If you’re a miller and you know it, best play is, in my opinion, to try avoiding an investigation by being as pro-town as possible. On the other hand, I understand why a miller would want to claim immediately and I don’t think it’s an unreasonable play, just a less than optimal one. In one acronym: IGMEOY.

2. FaerieLord: For believing Lord Gurgi’s claim, yet failing to unvote him. It’s certainly possible he forgot that he random-voted Lord Gurgi, but it’s still worth mentioning.

[Falcone]

Now could you and whoever else avoided my question please answer it?

I assume you refer to your post 58:

Darla, if you were a miller, what would you do?

Actually, this question goes out to everybody.

I answered this in my previous post:

If you’re a miller and you know it, best play is, in my opinion, to try avoiding an investigation by being as pro-town as possible. On the other hand, I understand why a miller would want to claim immediately and I don’t think it’s an unreasonable play, just a less than optimal one.

Also, you're certain I'm scum after only a couple of posts, most of which were nonsense and some of which happened *after* your vote?

What makes you think I'm certain you're scum?

[Falcone]

The flavour makes sense so I'm going to treat gurgi as a confirmed town from here on in.

This a terrible idea.

FoS: ThAdmiral

[Falcone]

Just to point something out, Falcone, who in this game haven't you FOS'd, IGMEOY'd, or Voted?

farside22
DarlaBlueEyes
xyzzy

FaerieLord

Lord Gurgi

Falcone
nonny
Vivian Darkblaam

ThAdmiral

Mirth

Mariyta
Spacecase

Eight people, myself included. Do you disagree with any of my vote, FoS, or IGMEOY's?

[Falcone]

There's not a whole lot to respond to, but since you ask for it:

- I don't see why you would deliberately take a course of action that you know not to be "theoretically best".
- You didn't explain why you asked for a counterclaim after Lord Gurgi's miller claim.
- There was no reason to even ask me if I was "certain" you were scum, because I clearly indicated I was happy voting you "for the moment".

I support the request for input from Spacecase and Mariyta.

[Falcone]

EBWOP:

FoS: xyzzy

for #77 and

FoS: farside22

for #81.

For the record, my threshold for giving FoS and IGMEOY's is very low. They are a way to ask people for clarification for scummy posts or suspicious behaviour and are not necessarily meant to be an indication for whether or not I want to lynch that player.

[Falcone]

So you are saying lets not talk about who is scummy and lynch LG because of the miller claim?

unvote:
vote: DBE

The point of this is to figure out (1) what is best if you had the role (2) if we believe the role and why (3) discuss further and see if anyone is scummy. Wait why do I need to explain this is common knoweledge.

The first sentence of that post is a blatant misrepresentation of Darla's post. She didn't suggest quicklynching Lord Gurgi or stopping discussion at all. I even think her stance on Lord Gurgi is more reasonable than that of the people who want to treat him as a confirmed townie.

Mod-editing in a vote count:

DarlaBlueeyes - 4 (nonny, xyzzy, farside, vivian darkblaam)

xyzzy - 1 (DarlaBlueEyes)
Mirth - 1 (falcone)
farside - 1 (Lord Gurgi)
nonny - 1 (Mariyta)
Mariyta - 1 (Mirth)

12 alive, 7 to lynch!

[Falcone]

It's true that Darla's post wasn't the most useful post imaginable at that point in the game, but I happen to agree with what she said.

My issue with your post is that you misrepresented what Darla said and voted her for it, starting a bandwagon on her. You made it seem like Darla was looking for an easy lynch of the claimed miller (Lord Gurgi), while that was clearly not what she was trying to do.

It's intresting that you now seem to backtrack and claim that you voted Darla just for making a useless post.

Since I'm happy overall with how Mirth has reacted to my accusations:

Unvote: Mirth
Vote: farside22

[Falcone]

Vivian

, I think my serious and formal posting style is caused partly by the fact that I'm a pretty serious guy and partly because I feel it's my duty in a mafia game to express my thoughts as clear as possible. Headings, underlinings and formal language can help me with that. If you check some of my completed games, you'll see I usually post like this.

Farside22

, the point is Darla already answered your Q1 ("What's the best course of action if you're a miller?") in #63 en #67 and your Q2 ("Do we believe Lord Gurgi's role claim?") in #43. So there was no point in her answering those questions again when she made the post you voted her for. It's true that Darla didn't contribute much to the discussion about who is suspicious, but she didn't do what you're accusing her of doing, i.e. trying to discourage discussion and lynch Lord Gurgi instead of someone who's more suspicious. It's not because she didn't explicitly mention that we shouldn't Lord Gurgi right now, that you can assume she did want to do that. Furthermore, in my opinion it was clear from what she said that she did not want to lynch Lord Gurgi immediately, but only in the unlikely event that no better lynch candidate is found during D1.

I didn’t find Vivian’s #82 as scummy as farside22’s #81 because Vivian didn’t misrepresent Darla as much as farside22 did.

Mirth

, I’m satisfied with your responses partly because I can accept your explanation that the comments I attacked you for were not completely serious, partly because my reasons for voting you weren’t that strong to begin with, and partly because I like the tone of your responses: you were eager to have me explain my vote, but not overdefensive or OMGUS-like.

[Falcone]

Falcone, what do you think of my current vote on Mariyta?

I see where you're coming from with your vote, but I think it's more useful to judge everyone's contribution after a longer time has passed since the start of the game. There are many possible reasons why one could not have made an in-depth contribution after four RL days.

Farside22

, I still maintain you have changed your explanation for your vote for Darla since your original post.

Your original reason was that Darla didn’t want to talk about who’s scummy and wanted to lynch Lord Gurgi for claiming miller (#81).

Then you stated Darla’s post was scummy because it didn’t add anything to the conversation (#99).

Then you said you voted Darla for “not doing any of the 3 things that should be done in regards to LG's comments” (#113).

And after I pointed out that Darla in fact already did two of the three things you wanted her to do, you justified your vote by saying that she still didn’t do the third thing (“Look for scummy players” - #118). Looking for scummy players is very vague and general. You can’t judge if someone is seriously and sincerely hunting for scum from a single post, so I don’t think it’s reasonable to attack Darla for “not looking for scummy players” in one particular post. You also suddenly mention that Darla was being “defeatist”. Is that a new reason for suspecting Darla? How was Darla being defeatist? Is being defeatist scummy?

[Falcone]

We need more input from nonny and Spacecase.

We also need more votes for farside22.

That is all for now.

[Falcone]

Why more votes for Farside? Justify this statement please?

For the full case, see my posts #111, #117 and #124.

Short version

: Farside22 voted for Darla while misrepresenting Darla's post #80, saying that Darla should have done three different things with regards to Lord Gurgi's claim, two of which Darla had already done at that point. The third thing Darla did not to but should have, according to farside22 was "look for scum". This is a very weak reason to attack Darla for, especially since farside22 only took a single post of Darla into consideration before deciding she "wasn't looking for scum".

Even shorter version

: I think farside22 is scum.

Got it?

[Falcone]

Of course I'm not sure, I just think farside22 is the most suspicious player in the game so far.

And I acknowledge farside22 has responded to my accusations, I'm just not persuaded by her responses.

Now let's hear what the 3-4 people who haven't really started playing yet have to say about this discussion, shall we?

[Falcone]

Usually if someone out's themselves as LG did with a miller role I have seen scum use it to vote them out.

Link please.


I'm disappointed that no one, except a precious few players, is willing to take a stance on anything. I'm of the opinion that there's plenty to comment on, and that there's no good reason not to vote for whomever you think is most suspicious so far. If no one votes, or even comments on the game, there's a real danger the game will stall, which is to the scum's advantage.

[Falcone]

Explain to me how its beneficial for scum if the game to stall? Just a curious question.

If there's not much discussion going on in a game, it's very hard for the town to know where people stand on various issues, who's attacking each other, who's defending each other, who's avoiding each other, and why. In such a situation, it's very difficult to see who's suspicious and who isn't, and even more difficult to decide who should be lynched. Also, since this game has relatively strict deadlines, there's a risk that a hasty lynch will occur close to the deadline, or, even worse, that no lynch at all will occur.

This is basic mafia strategy, isn't it?

[Falcone]

Since no one (except for Lord Gurgi) seems to agree with me that farside22 is suspicious, there's not much point in me keeping my vote on her anymore. She's participating, so we'll have plenty to look back on should we need to re-examine her on a later Day.


I find it baffling that so many people are reluctant to vote, or even give their opinions on the game.

Spacecase

has managed to express an opinion on exactly zero other players. In fact all he has done is some sterile mafia theory discussion.

Nonny

random-voted Darla, then jumped of her wagon without much meaningful comment on it. Hasn’t expressed suspicion or trust of any other player.

Xyzzy

random-voted Darla, then didn’t post for a long time. In his last post says he “dislikes” farside22’s generalizations, says Mariyta is probably protown and then says “he’s extremely neutral on most people”. This last comment seems very odd to me, since I think there’s enough to comment on. Xyzzy’s vote is still on Darla, but he hasn’t commented on her bandwagon.

FaerieLord

hasn’t contributed very much either. She random-voted Lord Gurgi, then “forgot” to unvote when stating she believed the claim. She says I’m “stretching” in my attack on farside22. FaerieLord, do you think I’m suspicious for my discussion with farside22?

ThAdmiral

isn’t voting, but is actually contributing relatively well. ThAdmiral, who do you think is most suspicious at the moment?

Darla

random-voted first Lord Gurgi, then xyzzy, but hasn’t made a serious vote yet. Any chance the long post you promised on Wednesday is still coming?

Unvote: farside22

Vote: Spacecase
FoS: xyzzy
FoS: nonny

[Falcone]

Explain how you chose who to vote/fos off that list?

Isn't that obvious? Spacecase, nonny and xyzzy have made far less useful contributions than all the others, Spacecase is the worst of the three. I'm not actually suspicious of ThAdmiral and Darla, as should be quite clear from my previous post, and just a little of FaerieLord.

All of Falcone's recently posted suspicions hinge around the target not participating to the fullest. Why no Mariyta?

I took the five people who aren't voting and added xyzzy, since his is (presumably) still a random vote.

[Falcone]

My vote will probably not move anytime soon.

Lord Gurgi, may I ask why the mod is #2 on your protown list?

[Falcone]

I don't need a prod either. I'm following the game and I'm happy with where my vote is (that would be Spacecase). I would like to clarify, however, the reasons for my vote, since several people seem to assume it is "merely" a lurker vote, which isn’t quite accurate.


I first voted Spacecase in #178, because he hadn’t, up to that point, done anything other than discussing general mafia theory and hadn’t expressed an opinion about any other player. I found (and still find) that to be suspicious behaviour. I suppose you could call this a lurker vote, but only if you understand “lurker” as someone who’s posting, but tries to avoid coming under suspicion by not taking a stance on anything, as opposed to someone who just doesn’t post.

Spacecase reaction (#191) was, in my opinion, very interesting. After being asked to give her opinion on others, he chose to comment on three players:

(1)

Farside22: Really hard to figure out if she is scummy or not due to her game play. Which makes it hard for me at least to make an assessment.

This isn’t an opinion at all, it’s just a roundabout way of saying he doesn’t want to take a stance on farside22. This comment can easily be construed as a subtle defence of farside22, who I said I was suspicious of and who I only unvoted because I didn’t get enough support.

(2)

Falcone: You seem to be running the conversation which is kinda scary. It's a plausible thought to say that he could be a scum figure.

I find this an odd comment as well. No doubt one could attack me for various things I have said in this game, but saying that “running the conversation” equals “possible scum” is weird and, frankly, false. If you disagree with me or are suspicious of me, you need to give reasons, otherwise this is just not-so-subtle OMGUS.

(3)

FaerireLord: Kinda suspicious that you are defending Farside22. That's all i need to say about that

... and again a comment relating to farside22, with a weird cryptic comment at the end. What FaerieLord actually did (#160) was saying that I was “stretching really hard to find something scummy about farside”. If Spacecase suspects me, and is unsure about farside22’s alignment, then why does he think it is suspicious for FaerieLord to defend farside22 against my attack?

These three comments make me suspect a connection between Spacecase and farside22 (probably in part because I am already suspicious of both of them for other reasons).


Spacecase’s next posts don’t make me feel better about him either. When questioned by Mirth about his reasons for voting me, he goes from suspecting me to not having a clue over the course of two posts. After that, when repeatedly asked who he would lynch if he had to choose right then, he chooses Lord Gurgi, who had just said he would kill Spacecase if he had to choose. Another case of OMGUS, more blatant than the first.


So in summary, I think Spacecase is a good lynch for today.

[Falcone]

Mod

, what are the rules for lynches at deadline?

Whoever has the most votes will be deadened. If two players have the same number of votes, I will kill the player who reached that number first.

[Falcone]

Darla, thanks for ignoring my request not to list possible townies. Really appreciate it.

unvote:Spacecase
vote: Nonny

What list? You've barely offered an opinion all game, I don't like this, this smells of oppurtunism.

Mirth

, your attempt to derail the bandwagon on Spacecase less than four days before the deadline by unvoting him to instead vote for nonny, who clearly isn't going to be lynched today, is noted.

Also, for what it's worth, I disagree with you that posting a list of "probably protown players" is more helpful to the scum than to the town.

Spacecase

, claim please.

[Falcone]

Nonny, ThAdmiral, why wouldn't I ask for a claim when we were three days before the deadline and Spacecase was the main lynch candidate? He was effectively in as much danger as someone who's at L-1 in a non-deadline situation.

He narrows it down to Falcone, ThAdmiral, or Xyzzy...

Eh what? Please explain what you're trying to say here.

Unvote: Spacecase

[Falcone]

Since we're pretty close to deadline, I'm going to re-vote my previous top suspect. Consider this a placeholder vote, which may or may not change again before the deadline, pending a (hopefully detailed) reread.

Vote: farside22

[Falcone]

I hate having to do what I'm about to do, and I hate Spacecase for making me do it, but with the deadline pretty close and the votes and voting lists the way they are, I think that all in all it's worth it to avoid a probable mislynch. We shouldn't lynch Spacecase. He claimed my exact role.



I'm the right boob, and I'm looking for the left one. At night, I can target another player, and if I find the left boob, we become masons. Before anyone asks, alignment is not mod-confirmed, but given the flavor and the fact Spacecase claimed my exact role, I think the chance he's scum is extremely small.

I will make a voting list in another post.

[Falcone]

1. Farside22
2. Lord Gurgi
3. DarlaBlueEyes


I did a reread and didn’t like Lord Gurgi’s reaction to being questioned about putting the Mod on his protown list (in #196). Especially his #210 sounds like someone who’s annoyed to have made a stupid mistake and who's trying to brush it off. I think forgetting who’s the Mod is something that scum are more likely to do when they’re fabricating protown lists than townies who’re honestly giving their opinions about others. There’s also the other aspect of his #196, that where he says he would lynch Spacecase or xyzzy when given the chance and then proceeds to not put them anywhere on his scum list.

I realize this isn’t a great case, but since he claimed Miller and seeing the reactions to that claim and his interactions with everyone throughout the Day, I think he’d be both a good information lynch and a good best-worst-case-scenario lynch.

As for Darla, I have to agree she’s rather blatantly not cooperating, and again, she’d be a good information lynch.


To clarify and pre-empt some inevitable questions: I believe no great case has been made against anyone. Therefore, there are like 5 or 6 plausible lynch candidates. I think the town should choose someone to lynch that’s both unlikely to be of much value (role-wise I mean) and whose death will tell us something meaningful about a couple of others.

[Falcone]

Well, Mirth, breadcrumbing would have been fairly pointless, wouldn't it? It wouldn't prove anything, because it could just as well be done by Spacecase's scum partner at that point.

I did try to react in such a way that wouldn't make it extremely obvious I was Spacecase's mason-partner-to-be, hence me unvoting without directly referencing the claim and revoting in a separate post. There was no need to give possible role-fishing scum (Lord Gurgi’s #299, Darla’s #303) any more information than was necessary.

I feel, however, it's necessary to claim now.

[Falcone]

Unvote: farside22
Vote: DarlaBlueEyes

And yes, that's a lynch.

[Falcone]

Vote: farside22

We should have lynched her yesterday.

[Falcone]

I'm assuming falcone found the other breast than....because that basically would confirm spacecase's claim to a point. (yes, yes they could still be scum together but still)

Yes. I targeted Spacecase with my ability last Night and we became Masons. We didn't have a chance to talk much, since Incognito replaced Spacecase during the Night.

[Falcone]

I’m … dissatisfied ... with the people who seem to think that I’m voting farside22 without a proper case on her (Maryita, ThAdmiral, also nonny to a certain extent).



I had a pretty lengthy discussion with her on Day 1, from page 5 to page 8. This discussion originated from her #81, in which she misrepresented DarlaBlueEyes (a dead townie). In her #80, Darla had expressed the opinion that Lord Gurgi (who claimed miller) would be a good Day 1 lynch, unless someone else was more scummy, since his claim leads to all kinds of WIFOM and in case he was a townie, we would only lose a miller (which is a worse-than-vanilla role).

For starters, I was, and still am, of the opinion that this post by Darla was perfectly reasonable and that she shouldn’t have been attacked for it.

However, in #81, farside22 made it seem like Darla had suggested lynching Lord Gurgi without discussing scummy actions by others, and voted for Darla. In the same post, farside22 said Darla should have done three things with regards to Lord Gurgi’s claim, (1) giving her opinion on the best course of action of you’re a miller, (2) saying whether she believed the claim or not and (3) pointing out scummy actions by others.

After I pointed out this misrepresentation, farside22 (#110) “rephrased” her reason for voting Darla to “making a useless, non-constructive post”, which is clearly something rather different than her first reason.

After I pointed

that

out, farside22 (#113) said she attacked Darla for not explicitly saying she didn’t want Lord Gurgi to be lynched immediately, which is another misrepresentation, because Darla made it perfectly clear she didn’t want to lynch Lord Gurgi immediately by adding “unless someone comes round even more scummy”. In the same post, farside22 also said that she voted Darla for not doing the three things she listed in #81.

I then pointed out that, at the time farside22 first attacked her, Darla had already done two of the three things farside22 wanted her to do. Darla gave an answer to farside22’s first question in #63 en #67 and to her second question in #43. I concluded that farside22’s newly stated reason for voting Darla was not valid (#117).

Then in #118 farside22 went “But Darla still didn’t do my (3)!”, implicitly admitting that her last given reason wasn’t valid, while maintaining that she wasn’t backtracking. She then went so far as to give a

fourth

reason for voting Darla, i.e. that Darla was being “defeatist”.

In my next few posts, I restated my case against farside22 a couple of times, trying to get others to vote for her, or at least give their opinion about it. I wasn’t successful at doing this, because the rest of the town seemed more interested in lurker hunting. Then Spacecase started acting scummy and I unvoted farside22 to vote for Spacecase. I specifically stated that I wasn’t satisfied by her responses, but that I thought it was futile trying to get a lynch on her on my own (#178).

Everyone who doesn’t see there is a case against farside22 is either not paying attention or trying to play down an attack on a scumbuddy.



Now, something that didn’t really occur to me until now, after Lord Gurgi and nonny had their little discussion on the last two pages, is that Lord Gurgi also voted farside22 yesterday, but for entirely different reasons, or rather, with no reasoning at all. In fact, Lord Gurgi’s first vote was for farside22 and was random/joking (#36 – note that while Lord Gurgi “unvoted” me, he never actually voted me in the first place).

Lord Gurgi then maintained his vote for farside22 all through my attack on her, without once commenting on that attack. This is very suspicious. It’s like Lord Gurgi random/joke voted his scumbuddy in order to make a kind of “negative connection”, and then didn’t want to take off the vote during my attack for fear of appearing to defend her, but at the same time didn’t want to encourage the bandwagon by commenting on my case. Lord Gurgi later even said that he didn’t want to push the bandwagon against farside22! (#268).

Reviewing Lord Gurgi’s posts on Day 2, he starts out with a second vote on farside22, referring to his “reasoning” on Day 1. The problem with this post is, of course, that there was no reasoning for Lord Gurgi’s vote on Day 1.

Then in #454 he suddenly does make a case against farside22, which is based upon (1) farside22’s lukewarm reaction to his claim, (2) supposed strawmanning by farside22 with regards to the metagame arguments Lord Gurgi was making against her, and (3) farside22’s LoS, which had Lord Gurgi in second place.

I think all of these reasons are unconvincing at best. Farside22’s reaction to the claim was pretty reasonable I think. Lord Gurgi’s metagame argument against farside22 boiled down to “I usually feel she’s town, but now I feel she’s scum”, which is, frankly, a stupid argument. I don't really see how farside22 is strawmanning there. (3) is just OMGUS.

And

still

Lord Gurgi doesn’t comment on my case against farside22...

All this, coupled with his claim and a few other scummy actions (as pointed out by forbiddanlight in her long posts and myself in #397), make me think Lord Gurgi might be bussing a scumbuddy...

[Falcone]

Lord Gurgi's out-of-the-blue request to be vig-killed, and especially his eagerness to get reactions to it (see #481 - sorry farside22), makes me suspect him a little more. It seems like he was consciously betting on the town thinking a mafia member wouldn't offer to be killed like he did and that he wanted to know whether his gambit worked as soon as possible.

At worst, his offer is a chance for him to use any night abilities he may or may not have, and a subtle instance of rolefishing to boot. At best, it's an appeal to emotion. Figuring out which it is boils down to WIFOM (again).

That said, I certainly support any vigilantes we may or may not have to kill Lord Gurgi should he not be lynched today, even if said vigilante is a one shot role. If nothing else, it will bring the game to an odd number of players, which is in the town's favour.

How is it weak to attack someone for not scum hunting and offering nothing but a point that if no one is scummy then we should lynch this other person? Really that is so helpful for her to offer someone to just vote out if no one looks scummy?

He never answered my last question here by the way.

Farside22, I did answer this question, at least implicitly. I'm of the opinion, as I stated several times, that Darla's comment was perfectly reasonable and that it was a useful contribution to the discussion at that point in time. True, she didn't point out scummy behaviour by others, but it is very weak to attack only her for "not scumhunting" in a single post (which is basically what you did, as per your own admission, after your other reasons were shot down). By the same logic, you could attack any other player who makes a joke or a random comment early in the game.

[Falcone]

I'm personally not convinced by falcones case (especially because it also goes as far to suggest that lord gurgi is the scum partner). And I still don't understand why, if you were trying to get the town to look at a farside lynch, you wouldn't have actually mentioned it yesterday.

FoS: ThAdmiral

I did try to convince the town farside22 was a good lynch yesterday. If you don't see that, you just haven't read my posts.

And it's important to note that my case against farside22 doesn't depend on Lord Gurgi being scum at all. On one hand, I think farside22 is scum, on the other hand I think Lord Gurgi could be scum, partly because of his behaviour towards farside22.

You still seem to be going from the assumption that Lord Gurgi is confirmed town, which is bad play at best and scummy at worst.

[Falcone]

I am suspicious because I don't agree with you?

Not at all. I don't blame you for

not agreeing

with my case against farside22, I blame you for

refusing to acknowledge

that it's not a new case, but one I made, in quite some detail, yesterday.

And all I can remember you saying yesterday is that you thought farside was scummy. No case, just that. If you had posted what you did today then that would have been different, but you didn't.

You shouldn't try to

remember

what happened yesterday, you should

actually go back

and look at my posts yesterday. If you did that, you would see that you are wrong and that I did make a detailed case against farside22.

On top of this I find it odd that you were so sure of farside being scum yesterday, but switched over to darla and in fact hammered Darla. And today you've been acting like you have been after farside the whole time and it was the towns fault that we got sidetracked and lynched darla and that you shouldn't have to share any of the responsibility for that.

I'm perfectly willing to take my share of the "responsibility" for Darla's lynch. Are you?

Because looking back, I can't help but notice something very interesting: When Spacecase claimed, I unvoted him and then in my next post re-voted farside22, because we were pretty close to the deadline and I felt I needed to place my vote on the person I was most suspicious of (#311 and #314). After that vote, farside22 and Darla were tied at two votes each. In the

very next post

(#315) you voted Darla, with the brilliant reasoning that she had “seemed most scummy to (you) for the day”, putting her at the top of the vote count, a position she would keep until she was eventually lynched. In other words, close to a deadline, you expressed a clear preference for a Darla lynch over a farside22 lynch. Darla turned out to be a townie. It would look pretty bad for you if farside22 turned out to be scum, now wouldn’t it?

And on the lord gurgi thing: if he's scum I'll eat my hat. The claim is way too solid in my eyes.

Pics please. Also, his claim isn’t solid at all.

Rolewise

, it’s a claim that can give scum a clear advantage (not being investigated), while being suboptimal for a townie to make (for reasons I explained on Day 1).

Flavourwise

, the fact that his picture can be easily found on Google doesn’t mean anything. It probably is his real picture. And any flavour that fits for a miller can also fit for scum. After all, they are both roles that the innocent people are suspicious of.

[Falcone]

I'm going on a biking trip through Ireland from Friday the 22nd until Sunday the 31st. I expect to have some access, but that's not a certainty. Please don't replace me if at all possible.

[Falcone]

Checking in from my holiday, not a lot of time to post.

I certainly don't have time to properly analyze all the ridiculously lengthy posts in the last couple of pages, but after reading them over, I would be happy to vote for ThAdmiral, also because he doesn't seem to have responded to the question I asked him in my previous post (about his vote for Darla on Day 1).

So, ThAdmiral, please do that, and while you're at it, claim please, since you're virtually at Lynch -1.

[Falcone]

I had time to reread the last three pages in detail.

ThAdmiral deserves to be lynched for #524 alone.

His #556 is a little gem of scumminess too, mainly because he pretends to not get the difference between what he has been doing, i.e. "player X might be scum, or might be town, I don't really know" (=sitting on the fence) and what Incognito has been doing "player X is probably scum, but player Y might be scum too" (=perfectly reasonable in a game with more than one scum left).

@ falcone: that "question" looks like rhetoric to me. But I'll answer it anyway: yes. Of course I do. I voted early and kept my vote on and was definitely one of the main pushers of the darla lynch, which turned out to be incorrect.

And I'll claim when I want, role-nazi.

That's not really an answer to the question, but fair enough, since the actual question hinges rather heavily on farside22 being scum, which we don't know for sure at this point.

Also, watch your language. Seriously.

Unvote: farside22
Vote: ThAdmiral

Maybe that will convince him to claim.

[Falcone]

This was a pretty good game.

Congratulations to the scum.