Mini 2167: Illicit Substances Mafia (Game Over!)

[midwaybear]

This has started!

[midwaybear]

VOTE: SecretTunnels

[midwaybear]

You're the first person I've seen with >30 posts per day.

[midwaybear]

Aren't hydras supposed to sign their names

[midwaybear]

Ok...

[midwaybear]

This might be the first time I've played with hydra let alone multiple. Not sure how that will affect making reads?

pedit: what is THz?

[midwaybear]

Temporal frequency

Idk

[midwaybear]

I made it to LYLO once. It seems fun if you win, and really sad if you lose. Thankfully, we won

[midwaybear]

UNVOTE:

[midwaybear]

Actually, maybe you need less drugs.

What does this mean? Reconsidering early scumread on him.

[midwaybear]

I don’t understand what you were scum reading them for in the first place.

Opening couple posts I didn't like. Too all over the place. Recent two have been better.

[midwaybear]

I mean I was also sorta scumreading you for the opening posts and it hasn't really changed yet, but mmm townread on me is working.

[midwaybear]

Is your third hydra head an honorary hydra? With an Italian suit and bowler hat?

Wait who are you referring to and why are you scumreading them?

This seems like a game where I might have to rely on others reads, but can I

[midwaybear]

Oh, then I might have an idea. Why is your read what it is though?

[midwaybear]

Is your third hydra head an honorary hydra? With an Italian suit and bowler hat?

What's with this then...

I noticed a tonal shift when they were replying to PlusJOYED about hydra reading, but I'm not sure whether that's because it was a different head. Sign posts plz

[midwaybear]

Actually, it seems as if some posts were signed by the slot and some were not. Might be on to something, but lack of signedposts might make things harder.

[midwaybear]

Ok nevermind...
Hydras can be confusing

[midwaybear]

I’m a bit lost and i’m one of them poke around types.

I'm not sure what you were intending to get by asking that question.

[midwaybear]

What's my meta?

[midwaybear]

@morph why are you scumreading Secret Tunnel?
I do hope this is a not mafia impersonator.

[midwaybear]

wait where is notscience?
Also bells posting seems pretty townie

He is a head of the secret tunnel hydra. Also, why do you find Bell townie?

Ok nevermind...
Hydras can be confusing

what was all this about earlier? or rather what conclusion did you come to in that what my slot (assuming i didn't misparse something) did could be disregarded?

-b

I thought you telling PlusJOYED that hydra reading was not rocket science was a bit off from the previous jokey tone. It seems like the jokes/fluff were mostly coming from the other head, so I don't think there was much.

[midwaybear]

a bit off from the previous jokey tone

I don't want to belabor this but off as in just tonally different or off in that it looked like a push was being made?

-b

Tone. I tend to try to use individual posts or sequences as base for reads a lot. Thought I found something, but it was for naught.

[midwaybear]

lowkey reads like Plus was just listing generally townie things, but that seems too easy

[midwaybear]

I guess then my Q is what would a tonal shift by a single person right then and there mean in any kind of alignment indicative sense?

-b

Yes, but since we are speaking in the hypotheticals, I'd prefer not to elaborate on potential things that could be divined from a tone shift. Hopefully this comes into play for real sometime this game

[midwaybear]

I think Bulge is town.

[midwaybear]

I think Bulge is town.

off what post(s)?

-b

Prism vote doesn't feel like scum and liked some of his stuff surrounding Plus. What 274 means will also be helpful towards my read.

[midwaybear]

What is wrong with the Prism vote? What do you see that makes Bulge opportunistic scum rather than a town push?

[midwaybear]

@bell who is your second most confident read on right now?

[midwaybear]

same with remilla but in that case substitute me being a touhou fan over me likeing their playstyle

You’ve got to be kidding me...

[midwaybear]

So when are you going to explain this notsci scumread? Not seeing it

[midwaybear]

So when are you going to explain this notsci scumread? Not seeing it

Was this at us?

It was explained in our ISO but it's extremely meta based.

What is he missing that he normally brings? Seems a little related to your prism read but you don’t have a scum read there.

[midwaybear]

Ok then. This might have to be a read I defer to you.

[midwaybear]

Sorry, I don’t really see the point.

[midwaybear]

Update:
Scum read: midwaybear.

3. Bell

[midwaybear]

Yes. I’m mostly mentioning that because i’m An omgusy player at heart and trying to see from your perspective who seems to be working with pattern recognition what you might be thinking.
And that lines up pretty good. But not amazing.

What are you trying to say here?

[midwaybear]

Does the omgus playstyle mean that you sort primarily based on how people interact with you?

[midwaybear]

Stop pretending
your read on me makes no sense, and your read exercise was yuck

[midwaybear]

Why are people townreading Bell

[midwaybear]

Would you like to share what’s yuck about it?

There was literally no point to do the exercise and it felt quite unnatural/artificial to me. Also, notice how almost everyone else decided to ignore it too

[midwaybear]

Me refusing to answer your question was not a matter of disinterest

[midwaybear]

There was literally no point to do the exercise and it felt quite unnatural/artificial to me.

There's no point to... sharing your reads in a clear and concise format?

That's a new one.

That's not really what I was thinking, but now you have one read.
VOTE: Bell

[midwaybear]

That's not really what I was thinking, but now you have one read.

What were you thinking, then?

Bell's post came from scum, so I'm not going to indulge it. If you want my reads right now, I still have Bulge as town with Prism. Scum is bell and plus atm.

[midwaybear]

I want to hear why Bell's exercise was artificial and why it was pointless, because it doesn't feel like either to me.

Ok, so I am going to acknowledge that, in a vacuum, such a thing is probably helpful. However, context matters. Iirc, the thread was decently active and conversations were flowing. Then, Bell announces that he wants the game to slow down and have everyone out some reads. This would have caused an unnatural rift in the prior flow of the game, and probably started new conversations that might have overshadowed old ones. One theory I have is that Bell was covering for a scumbuddy in trouble maybe Plus. I feel like people saw this and that's why nobody really did what he asked. The whole post is just yucky towncred grab.

[midwaybear]

The whole post is just yucky towncred grab.

I'm struggling to imagine Bell thinking that telling everyone to stop what they're doing and explain their reads to him like he's 5 is going to get him towncred.

I mean it wasn't an explain like I'm 5, and I disagree with you about the towncred. I can totally see it.

[midwaybear]

Idk I still think it was pretty unnatural... Somewhat similar to tone shift stuff, but I might have to revisit it.

Have you ever done something similar as scum for towncred?

No, but I don't do stuff like that as town either. I feel like others perhaps might have done similar things as scum.

[midwaybear]

Wait do we all have them?

Bruh yes.

[midwaybear]

Also still wanna hear why you TR bulge

I already told you why. I don't even know why you scumread him, but I already disagree with it.

[midwaybear]

Yeah, I don't even know why you scumread Bulge. It seems like your initial reason was the push on Prism, but then you acknowledged that it wasn't as scummy as you thought. Why else do you scumread him?

[midwaybear]

I liked fferys interactions with me and I think it makes sense to be confused why the interactions not the same even if I do think it’s a bit of an over expectation. I don’t think your play this game would hinge on pocketing someone just as likely to be overly paranoid of you by making me work for my townread

If ffery is scum and notices that you have been different from past games, what is stopping her from using that angle to scumread you in this game? What's the difference here between how scum her and town her approach this with you? Also, the second statement seems pretty lazy and potentially wrong in some cases to me.

[midwaybear]

Sell me on Bell and sell me on Prism and sell me on Plus because right now I see your Plus read and I think you're a psychopath so I wanna know if you're just a psychopath or if ur just scum.

Bell: 489 stuck out to me as a load of baloney. Reasoning outlined in 755. That said, I'm interested in what he meant here

The signal to noise ratio is starting to hit me and I don’t want to fall behind.

What did you mean by signal to noise ratio? I still don't really understand what it means, and I'm not sure if it was even true.
Also, there's a lot more passive/buddying comments in his iso than there is solving.
Plus: His opening few posts were just really bad and I don't understand the logic behind some of his reads(Bulge). I don't think my scumread is super strong here, and he seems to be solving now. What morph said about playstyle might be applicable.
Prism: I don't know why I townread this slot but his name sorta just popped in my head when I was thinking about reads. Come back to me later on this but I might be conf biased

[midwaybear]

town buzzword energy

What does this even mean

[midwaybear]

I would be equally interested to read the game as town or scum. Scum definitely cares about what's going on in the game? If you were scum, are you saying you wouldn't try to catch up on what you missed? Seems like a recipe for disaster.
What do you mean by buzzword though? Also, why were you scumreading Bulge outside of Prism push again?

[midwaybear]

Maybe Plus? He was in a fair amount of heat yesterday.

[midwaybear]

Well for someone who complained about signals and noise, I find Bell's posts to have a lot of "noise".
As for Plus, I'm not sure if I have any other reasons. His reads seem to be based of lazy/generic reasons, and I'm not sure to what extent I give him benefit of the doubt.

[midwaybear]

It’s not really noise if they’re my posts. I don’t need to sort myself.

Not sure you completely missed the point or are being like this intentionally.
Assuming good faith, I feel like many of your posts (like this one) serve no real purpose other than fluff and fit in the category of: short comment that scum make. Like you say you are about the journey and yadda yadda, but in this game, it matters if you have a destination and I'm not really seeing that. You have reads like morph town, Prism scum, Alisae scum, and those happen to be the people who I don't really even remember you questioning.

[midwaybear]

midwaybear I really liked your posts in WW&V. I wasn't faking that.

I hate them here

why...

[midwaybear]

Stuff like that somewhat annoys me and I don't really see his purpose behind it.

[midwaybear]

Was muffin G8 or was this a different dance game? I think morph is town now

[midwaybear]

he sounds a lot different?

[midwaybear]

he sounds a lot different?

Being an IC will do that.

Yeah I suppose that accounts for a lot of it. There's still this weird feeling that I get and he sounds a lot more on edge this game than the last. Still probably an IC difference, but idk

[midwaybear]

btw mechanically earlier was me trying to articulate kind of the disregard for nuance

what does this mean and are you referring to someone?

[midwaybear]

uytreszdxfgchvjbkl

this is how I feel when I read some of Bell's posts too this game

[midwaybear]

I guess I could be more genuine if you’d prefer.
But I prefer giving everyone a hard time.

Yeah, it's your win condition

[midwaybear]

i really should figure out why people are interpreting all my posts so wildly different to how i am actually feeling when i'm writing them

i'm not on edge, though in that game i was probably a lot more jovial for a variety of reasons other than being IC

I'm not sure. Maybe it's the lack of the second than it is the presence of the first. Learning you were G8 was a big surprise though(I was G4 btw)

[midwaybear]

oh no

hey we agree on something

[midwaybear]

so all your content is going to be memes?
we'll see how long that lasts...

[midwaybear]

ok
how far are you into your catchup or is that not gonna happen?

[midwaybear]

alright, so anything jump out to you since you replaced in?

[midwaybear]

Been 4 min and pretty sure Bulge is avoiding me. Guess it's hard not to be intimidated

so you were serious about this?
I don't really think Bulge was insincere either.

[midwaybear]

ok whew

Bulge, what was this referring to?

[midwaybear]

I don't really see anything that would prompt you to say that at THAT point in time

[midwaybear]

that's nice to hear, but I don't really see what he said that gave you that impression(that you were going to be able to sort the slot).

[midwaybear]

you don't think full sentences are easier to read and discern alignment from than img tags?

Not if they are joke posts which is what I was seeing from his interaction with you

[midwaybear]

I can't tell when you are joking and when you actually mean what you say.
@Bulge ok then. I can sort of see what you mean. It wasn't the most helpful, but at least it shows he was willing to interact and respond? Is that it?
ok

[midwaybear]

Just play like dancegame and hang out in this very real PT instead of dealing with the fucks in the main thread like gentlemen 4, he's icky.

Well this is a new development

Maria, how much of your current reads are based off of Morph's reads? Because I'm a little curious in how you placed reads on 3 slots in 7-ish minutes.

[midwaybear]

oh is this sort of a meta read?

[midwaybear]

wait am i actually not supposed to read it...

[midwaybear]

Sorta had planned this own thing that I was going to try to read Alisae on, but it hasn't really appeared.
Bell what angles?

[midwaybear]

which allows me to gamestate manipulate to the Max as scum, and reverse engineer scum play when I’m town, such as here.

How often does this work, and how are your townreads related to what you think scum is doing?

[midwaybear]

Ok, that seems like something that happens post flip? I’m just wondering if your townblock is based more off individual reads or because of game state circumstances that make you believe they are town. If it’s the first, I might have more questions. If it’s the second, I’m interested in hearing about it.

[midwaybear]

midwaybear

This is very sad. What's wrong with me this game?

Nope, but I can't say more.

I don't want to either.

[midwaybear]

I'm not sure what to say. Maybe I forgot how to play town.
Well all my reads in WWV were wrong, but I don't think that accounts for it. Because in mini normal 2156, I think i was somewhat "crazy" and had decent reads.
I really don't know. I do know that it is (was?) true that my towngame has those elements. This is a little sad to hear for some reason. I do think I have been trying to use more words instead of a previous minimal style, but I'm not sure.
Thanks for saying that though

[midwaybear]

You had in general what felt like solid points, sound reasoning, not jumping to conclusions, looking at things logically, etc. All that good shit.

I'm not sure how accurate this is/was though. I rarely explained how I got to any reads before

[midwaybear]

Later...
never had a read on Scarlet, but Bell reminds me of me this game for some reason. Not sure what my read on him is anymore

[midwaybear]

We're burning a nice tell on midway, but it's something he was likely to outgrow anyway as his play evolves.

I think my play just changed, but it's still a little sad because I do like how I played town before but I don't know how to replicate it. I'm not sure.

[midwaybear]

idk I sorta townread SS for that comment about my play

[midwaybear]

Hm looks like I was actually explaining things in WWV, so I’m not sure what exactly is different. But there probably is something different regardless

[midwaybear]

@morph
About Bell, he seems to be playing this game similarly to me in this game to some extent. There's a lot of questions directed at others in his ISO, and he even admitted that it was about the journey and not the destination. I can sorta sympathize with that sentiment because I have started taking that approach too and asking a lot of questions even if I don't know where it's leading to. I'm not sure if it's a bad habit or a good one, but at least I think it's a good way to pool information that you can look at later on even if you are unsure in the moment. I think that's what Bell has been doing this game a lot, and I remember him recently compiling thoughts so I'm fine with it for now. However, I think I'm going to go back to see how his questions potentially because I don't remember thinking that they were exactly related. Get back to you later on that. Also, I'm not sure I can completely ignore his fluffier comments, but I think those are more of a personal peeve than anything massively alignment indicative. Maybe it's similar to the open wolf comments from L1 that annoyed me so greatly in the dance game. I guess I'm townreading this slot at this moment.
About your read specifically, I think the point about him revealing that he was someone familiar with you guys as a massive townpoint. I also sorta think it's townie that you brought it up for some reason. It's definitely the type of thinking that I like. I don't really have any comments on these supposed mindmelding moments partially because well it's you who is mindmelding with him, but also because I don't remember any of those moments from him? For the other half, I would be surprised if Bell had meta on me but it seems like he has alluded to that? Vote on Plus is definitely townie though for pretty much the reason you had. Ok, yeah I think you are town now for the comment about Bell calling you IC. I don't think you think of including that read as scum. I do think he was jesting about that, so it's not as big of a town factor to you as for me. Surprisingly, I don't remember his entrance to be townie for me, but I might have been missing things such as the Plus vote.

About Remilia, I don't remember interacting or even really thinking about this slot much out of early game. Maybe I've been a little intimidated of their slot or something, but I thought the questions they had towards me were nice and had purpose. That reminds me of the tone shift thing I thought I had found early game, and I realize I haven't been putting much of a focus on the individual post much this game. Perhaps that is something Something_Smart may have noticed, but it was limited anyways and quite subtle. I did think their entrance was quite fluffy and jokey in the same way I did as Secret Tunnels which will probably always be something I view as suspicious too much. Looking at 114 and 121 especially 121, I think the way bork advocated for you to read his slot instead of GiFs was pretty townie. It seems like you talked about GiF not being town, and I feel like the way bork jumped in was pretty natural. When I zoom out, I have no idea what makes me think it is so good, but I still like it for some reason. Looking at vote history, the first serious vote is on Bell for a) flipping on me and b) something about engagement on muffin/morph. I don't really like this first reason as it seems pretty surface level for a player like bork. Like what purpose does it serve for scum Bell to flip on me for not answering his question, I probably would be expecting a more pockety thing than the snap scumread. I'm not sure what he's talking about in the second part so no comment there. Next and final vote is on Plus which is fine because I also noticed Plus seeming sort of static in his read on Remilia. So based on votes, it's not really conclusive. His readlist from last night also seemed legit. Look genuine, and reasonable based on earlier comments(what I'm looking for from Bell).
About your read, I also liked the trajectory of the way he formed his reads. I'll accept the rest of the stuff as some intracacies that you picked up from many games played together.
Guess I'm townreading both of these slots now

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Secret Tunnels
ye

[midwaybear]

My job this playerlist is to obv town, figure out who to sheep and sheep them

It is a different situation from the game you played with me.

It's not working.

[midwaybear]

Not sure what you think is going to change

[midwaybear]

I mean I just feel like you've been pretty under the radar this game. It also seems like most of your posts are interactions with morph. Is this accurate?

[midwaybear]

That wasn't really my question. I just think that you haven't really been talking with much people this game outside of maybe morph. IV had that one pop in midday that I didn't really like. I also don't find your attitude this game to be particularly townie.

[midwaybear]

I don't really get what you have seen from him this page? I found this to be slightly townie, but that doesn't seem to be your reason

Bear if you want the chance to get a read on me ask me things

It’s hard to help you see the light if you don’t ask questions :p

[midwaybear]

he's talked more with bulge than morph lol

eh this still supports my reasons anyways
a lot of talking to players he's familiar with and almost devoid of anything outside

[midwaybear]

I don’t think an ultra self aware scum player would post about their ultra self awareness.
Also he seems like he’s alone with no scum pt to keep him company.

If it's a habit, then they are probably going to mention it at some point to cover it up. Then again, this also happens if they're town. NAI
Tell me about the second thing? Was it about his supposed "frustration" with IV?

[midwaybear]

it's easy to slip into that mindset when playing a game with people you haven't played with in ages

especially if you're nostalgic about games when you worked together with them in some way

I guess, but at least with morph, it seemed more of an appeal than an actual zest to work together.
For some reason, I sorta forgot about Something_Smart at the beginning of this game.

[midwaybear]

It’s not NAI because if they do it as both that tips the balance into 50/50 for them rather than more likely to be scum.
He said he couldn’t be frustrated by it, but yeah. He blocked his frustration but saying he might be angry if he wasn’t implies he doesn’t have friends in a pt to keep him company.

That's NAI then if it's 50/50?
I don't think he was referring to this game in particular with the hydra comment. Don't think that hold much water here.

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Secret Tunnels

why is st scum?

I mean I already sort of outlined it, but I'm not really liking their approach to the game and how they haven't really talked much to people outside of familiars. This seems to be more of scumtell level 1, and not a lot of people seem to agree with me...

[midwaybear]

can someone please explain aliase being scum to me also?

I can't really debate your reasons not getting any scumpings, but the catchup was not really townie to me.

[midwaybear]

townreading muffin town too

[midwaybear]

That whole conversation left me down on April a bit, but maybe even morph? It seems like she is broadcasting the bravado, and trying to manipulate the game narrative to position paranoia on morph. I'm not sure how much I agree with the "go with the flow" narrative that April is trying to establish, and I'd like to know why she thinks that is. The only thing that sticks out to me is the lack of votes, but even that seems like playstyle rather than this game in particular. Even if this is true, it doesn't necessarily lead to morph scum right? Scum could very well be positioning to gain favor with a slot they perceive to be the center which makes sense with my read on Secret Tunnels.
About April's read itself, I can't tell if it comes from scum or town, but I'm not sure how valid it is.

[midwaybear]

Doesn’t matter if you believe me yet, i already said earlier I will be confirmable as town this game.

What does that have to do with believing you?

[midwaybear]

Bear I’m still waiting for real engagement from you. Don’t get yourself out of one tunnel on town into another, please.

I don't know what you want, and I don't have anything right now. Yesterday did not do much to change my read.

This is true in the most base of forms, yes, but when you get down more into it, it’s much more likely. Look at Morph’s way of mentioning me all game, specifically after it was obvious I no longer had morph as a town block town read.

And yeah, it is buddy esque, but it is not a scum pocket. I buddy as town because i own read the three of them.

Uh what. Is the first sentence about the game? I'm not sure I noticed anything changing for morph, but you're naturally more aware. I don't remember bringing up buddying, but I don't really have a problem with that yet.

[midwaybear]

I just don’t think it makes sense for scum them to come out of the gate shoving me and then muffin. Much easier to keep me at arms length. I don’t think ffery had to back off her push of me when she did either, it was likely she would have been able to get a remi vote and put me even further on my back foot.

It does make sense, and it's probably a good move as scum. Not sure why you keep using this to justify your townread. Not sure about the backing up part though.

[midwaybear]

ok, but it seems like they were gunning at a lot of familiar people which isn't really townie.

My point is why me. I don’t really lead much in these games so isn’t it better to take on someone with an actual shot of getting them clowned and put them off early?

I'm not sure what this means. If you don't lead much, that seems like you would be an easier target then?

[midwaybear]

I’ve had my vote down for a while

I don't think that's a helpful vote at this point unless you actually scumread the posts. I don't really.

[midwaybear]

I know

[midwaybear]

I don’t think anyone’s commented on it but we have a lot of people who know each other all townreading each other on both sides of the town. Idk what this means it’s just bugging me.

This seems somewhat true especially with morph-Bell-Remilia. It's not bugging me though, but I guess it's probably problematic later in the game.

[midwaybear]

I’ve also been pushing Prism slot for a while, so idk what your comments supposed to be talking about. I have stated The slots I thought were good fades for the day, my scum reads, my town reads, and the fact I’m ready for the day to end for a while.

Like, call me out if I’m wrong on any of this, but I do believe I have genuinely explained what’s on my mind thoroughly this game.

Oh ok, I guess I just wasn't really paying attention to those parts. I'll revisit this slot if the wagon becomes serious, but it's not really my first option.
I'm neutral on 420 and had Prism as slightly town mostly based on gut, and I'm not sure how much longer 420 will be with us. Probably still in my POE though.

[midwaybear]

I gutread their attitude as townie. Making the comment about not being apathetic and doing a "slayer" is probably town because I tend to see scum try to bank on apathetic status and then flip it later. Not much else from that though.

[midwaybear]

Something about that idea seems interesting, but I don't know how I feel about it. Meta circles seem to be based off more from previous experiences than circumstances of this game?
Yeah I guess I'm echoing morph there. I'm not sure about reads mirroring too, and how that is significant.

[midwaybear]

April, I really don't think that was necessary.

[midwaybear]

lmao please stop this

Do you believe this claim?

[midwaybear]

Idk I am a little skeptical.

[midwaybear]

I think he realizes that he might get elimmed soon, so is claiming something like this in fear.

[midwaybear]

I think he realizes that he might get elimmed soon, so is claiming something like this in fear.

Nah he does it a lot

Sometimes it's true, too

what do you think?

[midwaybear]

When I was newish I used to say stuff like that as town, but the current reaction is exactly how everyone reacted to me when I did this stuff:

I mean he's not exactly a new player, but this is apparently his meta?

[midwaybear]

So atm, my proposed team is The Bulge, Alisae, and Morph. I’m probably wrong on one of them.

This sounds like a version of OMGUS.

[midwaybear]

Anyone else want to talk with me about s_s?

This doesn't seem to be his scumgame, but I see some flashes of Lady 2. It seems to be the fluff stuff, but I don't think the comment about how I am playing really comes from a scum SS.

[midwaybear]

Bulge and Morph have been on my top 3 for a long time, and Alisae made a trash push that also misrepped me at an extremely momentum swinging time.

What part of it is OMGUS?

I don't remember Bulge being in your top 3. It seems like you are scumreading them for either attacking you or defending morph which basically means not agreeing with you. I'm not sure what I should think about that, but I don't think these reads are reliable at all. At least with Bulge and Alisae.

[midwaybear]

What happened to Bell?

[midwaybear]

I thought people said you do make these sort of claims as scum too.

[midwaybear]

I only played with him once before and it was the second anonymous dance game. I thought he seemed pretty townie and I also liked the way he was playing, so we ended up being paired together. I actually think that wasn't a very good scumgame for him, but he was sorta lurky and didn't really contribute anything. I do remember him getting scumread early, and he seemed a little annoyed first but then came to some kind of agreement with it saying "that's fair" or something like that. I also remember him getting scumread for not fully pushing his buddy, but it seems that he could do something like that in the right environment. I also remember some fluffy comments early on which shows that it does work to some extent.
Yeah, I think I was sort of conf biased in my townread of him, but I do think he is town this game.

[midwaybear]

Well there's a sad emoji

[midwaybear]

Such a post of spoiler= tags for each player is not present in a single completed town game of his.

Interesting

[midwaybear]

That actually might be true, but are there any other meta tells on me?

[midwaybear]

"April might be fakeclaiming and is therefore scum" seems like pretty obtuse observation considering where we are: pretty much unprompted and April just having a reputation for being generally out of his gourd. Why not be fakeclaiming looking to shake things up for the 6th time as either alignment

I don't think the vote is really scummy echoing what IV was thinking and potentially even what Alisae was thinking in that moment.

[midwaybear]

That is for me to know, and for you to eventually figure out when I'm forced to either burn it, or you come to the realization yourself and reverse-engineer it into your next scum game.

Do they exist though?

[midwaybear]

I don't think the vote is really scummy echoing what IV was thinking and potentially even what Alisae was thinking in that moment.

In your own words what were you thinking?

In the moment, I was thinking that a scum April dug himself into a really deep hole with the frankly bad attacks, and he decided to go big and fakeclaim a "confirmable" role. This way he is able to stall his hang for one or two days, and might even talk himself out of it during the later game. I'm not sure what the "breadcrumbs" mean for this though.
IV sorta echoed my thoughts.

[midwaybear]

I actually didn't really think you were very proactive in 966. That was what I was trying to read you by, and it's not very different.

[midwaybear]

I see, what mood brought on the current approach which is fairly different from the last two days?

What were you trying to get at from this question?

[midwaybear]

I mean you probably gain interest to the game as both alignments when you are threatened as the hang.
Personally, I find it more difficult to gain this WIM as scum, but that might not be what you're seeing here.

[midwaybear]

Yeah but they denied any influence there at all. It wasn’t the timing of the votes it was because they finished an anime according to them. that’s the only reason. they acknowledged the change too.

Oh, I see. This is actually somewhat suspicious then

[midwaybear]

No, the scum motivation is that he was in a bad spot and way overextended in the confidence of his "reads", so then he decides to claim this role that staves off his elimination for a couple of days while also ensuring that he remains in the middle of the conversations.

[midwaybear]

I mean nobody was really listening to the theories he was putting out there, and my view was shifted from crazy town to scum faking it.

[midwaybear]

It was nothing more than the pressure of mass scrutiny

but this switches to pressure of elimination very quickly

[midwaybear]

lol how are you coming up with this obv town scale

[midwaybear]

what?

[midwaybear]

saying the apathy/not caring has to come from scum is disingenuous

I was thinking this earlier too because it seemed like most of his scumhunting was based off of a lot of "level one" things. For example, he was calling zmuffin and maria scum early on for being inactive. I'm not really sure how to read this and it also seemed to be present in his two completed games...

[midwaybear]

We essentially have very similar reads besides a couple.

At what point does this just become different lol

[midwaybear]

UNVOTE: don't want this anymore at least for today
Feel better Tammy!

[midwaybear]

Interesting that Alisae and Plus are voting each other

[midwaybear]

I'm not sure if this is a minimegabyte situation.

[midwaybear]

I somewhat follow games and it seemed like Minimegabyte was widely scumread and fakeclaimed a power role. She handled the claim a little poorly, and I'm not sure what else I remember.
I also don't really think Plus and Mini are similar players, but I sorta share the concern that morph is having. Plus's reads this game seem surface level.

[midwaybear]

I wish I had more scum reads. Instead of town reads and blah reads.

It do be like that sometimes

[midwaybear]

I would probably be voting Alisae too, and I just find them voting each to be pretty interesting. I do sorta see more parallels as someone whose getting away with these sort of reads, so I guess I share Remilia's concern.
I could vote maid too.

[midwaybear]

how is "you're not trying so you're scum" any weaker an argument than "I'm not trying so I'm town"?

this is my main takeaway from the past few pages

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Alisae
game's stalling

[midwaybear]

actually it seems like some people still have things they want to get long, but this is probably the wagon I want to be on regardless

[midwaybear]

I didn't like your arguments on the last few pages. Saying scum you wouldn't be playing like this isn't a very good argument for me.

[midwaybear]

I don't like those arguments in general, and I also saw enough parallels here and in micro 966.

[midwaybear]

I'm also not sure who else I want to hang today outside of Alisae.

[midwaybear]

I'm curious if you think Plus and Alisae voting each other means anything.

[midwaybear]

If you were town, you probably could defend yourself with non meta things or you might not even be on the table at all. I guess it's not scummy, but it doesn't really do anything for me.
I am scumreading you because you haven't been town in a post or series yet.

[midwaybear]

what parallels

I noticed that you seemed to be very diminished in 966 and a more inquisitive nature. Similar to this game. That was not what I was expecting from you specifically because I always thought you were a louder player. However, it could be attributed to a break from the site or something so idk

[midwaybear]

It probably means that they scumread each other.

Yeah, I was thinking this too

Spoiler:

/s

[midwaybear]

Yeah, but there have seemed to be a lot of posts in general of "if I was scum, blah blah blah". I don't think that argument works.
@Alisae Ok, so even if you are playing differently then it's NAI at best and it doesn't work as a defense. And I still saw some similarities at least with regard to how your posts were originally sounding.

[midwaybear]

what's scummy about plus's readlist? It just seems to be a result of the way he reads people.

[midwaybear]

Yeah, that wasn't really why I'm voting Alisae. But like you, the meta case doesn't really work for me either.

[midwaybear]

I guess it sorta contributed to my scumread though? The main reason is that I don't really see anything that I consider to be townie on any individual post or series. If I look at the body of work, there's not much either and it seems like e has acknowledged that.
The other options seem to be Plus and maybe Maid. I could vote either of them, but I've seen some things I've liked from both.

[midwaybear]

That's how I like to view the game, but...
I admit that I wouldn't really be able to point out specifically scummy moments off the top my head at least.

[midwaybear]

Actually thinking about it now, morph could also just be scum

Actually thinking about it now, morph could also just be scum

like the fact they just have LHF in their scumreads seems weird. Thats the only thing I got tho so and everything else from them seems like its probably fine

Eh this seemed a little weird to me
I'm not sure what prompted the shift onto morph

[midwaybear]

Yeah, I feel decent about my vote

[midwaybear]

@Plus, what if his reads are right?
I was also thinking that Alisae was good for info, but I can’t remember why anymore.

[midwaybear]

mmm
legacy?

[midwaybear]

the gift of gab is working its magic on me
halp

[midwaybear]

What do you make of Alisae's 2 letter response to E-1?

it doesn't make sense to me as scum
UNVOTE:
discuss

[midwaybear]

although i may be underestimating eir scumgame

[midwaybear]

It seems to me like Alisae has had consistent pressure from the moment that e appeared in the thread. Would definitely be expecting softing and eventual claim of PR at the very least as scum. Defeated vt claim is the opposite of that. I might be underestimating eir right now which I'm somewhat scared about, but I think this doesn't happen?

[midwaybear]

Opposite.

That seems like defeatism.

would have expected defeated sounding PR claim at the very least
GeniusGamer in Open 795(Noir) comes to mind, but better execution

[midwaybear]

oh maybe you're right...
i'll probably remain off wagon cuz I want to think I'm right

[midwaybear]

Alisae implied they wouldn’t claim a power role earlier

how early was this?

[midwaybear]

2399, 2449

second one isn't vt indicative, and im not sure I understand the first one
even if it was vt soft, still doesn't do much to change my mind?

[midwaybear]

What's making this game particularly painful?

This game is obviously painful for scum!Alisae?

[midwaybear]

Then I slipped a line to see how they’d respond

bruh

[midwaybear]

Yeah, there will rarely if ever be a wagon that HAS to have scum
but that's semantics and I'm no major in wagonomics

[midwaybear]

mmm I don't think your gut is right

[midwaybear]

which makes me even more jumbled about who I want to hang today
pedit: aimed at remilia, but i guess you too
pedit2: ya

[midwaybear]

but I also want this day to end soon

[midwaybear]

sometimes i read plusjoyed posts and imagine it comes from like an AI who's at like gen 50 of a neural network learning process that's being fed mafia posts

Sorta, I think he’ll become readable though

[midwaybear]

it’s page 133

big mood

[midwaybear]

their reads list was scummy on entry and ever since they’ve been accommodating people’s points of concern about why they’re scum

what was scummy about it? I don't remember you giving reasons, but I could be wrong.
Also, the second point seems moot now.

[midwaybear]

what does that have to do with the original readlist?

[midwaybear]

Seems to be some fight in eir at least from what I saw last night

[midwaybear]

I mean they’re reacting to why people think they’re scum by emphasizing the things that they would expect town alisae to do.

This might be true

[midwaybear]

uh...

this sounds like G8

[midwaybear]

Hi Bell

[midwaybear]

I convinced myself that you were town. I'm not sure how long that lasts.

[midwaybear]

Didn't he acknowledge that he might have been off base?

[midwaybear]

Could just finish the day

FTFY

[midwaybear]

not Alisae
VOTE: Maid Cafe

[midwaybear]

Why not?

Claim fit the town bill for me more than the scum bill. I outlined more of my logic in 3102. I'd like to think I'm right about this, so I most likely won't be voting here for at least today?

[midwaybear]

UNVOTE:
Idk. Maybe I just don't vote because I'm really unsure.

[midwaybear]

Let me ask, minus that claim how do you feel about them? I feel like it's NAI and I can go into more details on why if you wish.

Oh, are your reasons similar to April?
I guess I had Alisae as somewhat scummy on virtue of finding none of eir posts particularly townie. There was nothing that I could see a solid town process to.

[midwaybear]

hey something smart what are you thinking?

[midwaybear]

tbh that's probably what i'd use as a baseline and then start hunting for 5 solid town reads in the remaining 8

If you're confident in those 5, technically you only need to find two solid town reads in the remaining 6. Technically, and I don't feel super strong about everyone there at this point. Weird game tbh

[midwaybear]

@Midwaybear - what are your thoughts on me completely telling the future when I said Morph voted Alisae so someone would unvote because too close to hammer, and would unvote after someone unvoted.

Morph voting Alisae got you to Unvote, and then Morph unvoted. That brought Alisae back to -3 instead of -1

Could be w/w tbh

[midwaybear]

Thankfully, the trend seems to be insanely long D1s and noticeably shorter follow up days.

[midwaybear]

What's the benefit to doing that, though?

towncred if you make the right decision