Mini 2167: Illicit Substances Mafia (Game Over!)

[Secret Tunnel]

yeah, and I forgot the next couple of lines, but then it goes-

SECRET TUNNEL

SECRET TUNNEL

THROUGH THE MOUNTAIN

SECRET SECRET SECRET SECRET TUNNEEEEEEEL

Also I’m town that’s all

VOTE: cabdffery

[Secret Tunnel]

Yeah I second Remi the game can’t start until this travesty is righted

[Secret Tunnel]

Oh did I vote you guys? It’s dark in the tunnel sorry

VOTE: bulge

Pedit
Yeah that fakedog guy socks

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VOTE: fakegod


Clown him before the game starts

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It’s their trajectory right

I think their trajectory is all over the place

Trajectory

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Hi ffery!

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It’s not a secret but I’ll let him introduce himself

He’s played with some of you

I will get an avatar eventually but I’m at work

[Secret Tunnel]

Rude

I’ve been better about tunneling since I’ve been back. I’m trying to focus more on townhunting.

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Ftr we all know I’m going to be unclownable by the end of d1 but live until clown or you lose

[Secret Tunnel]

I’ve only been twice I’ve been drawing a lot of nightkills

But this is the playerlist where I will

Pedit

Oof

[Secret Tunnel]

ns opening sounds a bit like a caricature of his normal 'i have arrived and am town' presence

-b

Well yeah I’ve been more srs bsns since I’ve been back because I can’t rely on y’all townreading me when most of y’all weren’t around

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who the hell starts a mafia game at 2am, damn aussies.

Also this is my first game with a hydra, how does someone being piloted by 2 people affect reading them?

You can separate individual heads if you want or you can focus on the slot as a whole

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I’m townreading muffin bear and bell at this point

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Clan>Remi don’t @me

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I mistyped flan. Flan>remi

And yes

Which of my townreads is wrong?

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VOTE: Secret Tunnel

[Secret Tunnel]

Bell will probably sort himself over time with his playstyle

-innocentvillager

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You’re tunneled

-innocentvillager

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Why did you feel the need to clarify that

-innocentvillager

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Why did you think anyone would think they might be related? Feels overexplainy.

-innocentvillager

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I still have no idea what you’re talking about but I’ll take it as NAI

-innocentvillager

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In case it wasn’t clear my first couple posts were all just trolls including the alt slip. Sorry if it annoyed anyone.

-innocentvillager

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hi iv!

hi

-innocentvillager

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No pressure but I'm expecting a literal god of mafia now.

Hello! It’s a pleasure to be here.

I see some of you are well acquainted with me! I look forward to playing again.

For those of you whom I have not had the pleasure of playing with, I look forward to our tussles as well.

As Scum I am often townread for days. As Town I can truly be a nightmare for the opposing faction.

wrong game sorry

this was me

[Secret Tunnel]

Where's your other head?

My comrade is working

-innocentvillager

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Bulge is town

Vote on me is boring

[Secret Tunnel]

You know it’s kinda hard to respond when you didn’t explain why you voted me

Only something about disagreeing with my townreads that have now grown to four!

Pedit
lolno the shakiest read of those four is muffin the other 3 I’m p confident

Pedit
Joyed you just played against scum bulge this is night and day

[Secret Tunnel]

Joyed is probably town too so make it five

Pedit
That game I never called him town I just let him get in my head

This game he is town

And You’re in my neck of the woods now I’m friends with most of the playerlist

[Secret Tunnel]

Mhm I work 9-10ish Sunday’s

I’m doing office work so I have a few

Pedit
I have good feels about bulge I didn’t get when he was scum

I’m vibing rn and I think candidly, the only one of my original pool you could argue I should be paranoid of is muffin. But I’ve also since mentioned if there’s one I’m less sure on it’s him

[Secret Tunnel]

@joyed he’s way more actively engaged from the get go not sure back and let town devour itself

[Secret Tunnel]

And frankly bulge just fucked me over big time because I wasn’t paranoid of him enough don’t you think scum me would learn

Pedit
For us, read my posts as my train of thought and anything IV signed as his. We’re going to try and limit our diss in thread because we would flood it way too easy

Pedit
You can disagree joyed but it’s enough for me

And do tell, what’s missing?

Pedit
I’m not disagreeing but I like what I’ve seen thus far so it’s good for now. Like I’ve already said I’ll be unclownable by the end of D1 but live until game end.

[Secret Tunnel]

For lack of a better way to explain it, this games like the touhou upicks.

I’m finally in a comfortable playerlist for me and I’m loving it so it’s probably bleeding into my posting a bit

Pedit
As I just said scum me just tried super strong townreading bulge all game and got called on it. I wouldn’t try the same bad tactic twice.

Pedit2

Did you or did you not do meta research prior to this game?

Go look at free love in Mayfair club and verify what I’m saying. You know I’m not that dumb to do the same strat twice.

[Secret Tunnel]

What about it?

It was something from before the game when we were discussing townreads but I don’t even get where it started

Pedit
I’m so confused god damnit

Okay didn’t one of you say you did meta before the game? There’s a micro with scum me vs town bulge

I know Cabd read my newbie scum game that I actually was able to do things for but I did a lot more strongarming and wifom spinning than I have here.

[Secret Tunnel]

Joyed if I’m referring to you I’ll put your name in it I’m trying to figure out how they are scumreading me

[Secret Tunnel]

Ffery can you just tell me what it is because I really have no idea

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Like I know it started after my theee townreads but

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...why do you think I’m spending so much time engaging you over your scumread on me lol

I am paranoid, yes, but I’m more excited to get to play with you (and Bork, Cabd, giffy, muffin) that it’s kinda on the back burner at this point.

[Secret Tunnel]

And for the record, I did want to draw scum here. I didn’t though.

[Secret Tunnel]

Is it you or him that disagrees with my townreads?

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hes the first person who townread me

Idk he feels very relaxed and I hadn’t hated anything he’d posted. Maybe it is wishful thinking but the Confucius post reminded me of his going to the doctor line he used to pull as town

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My assumption is that you know what they are and me copy+pasting them here won't be helpful because no one will read them

^

[Secret Tunnel]

I’ll retract it though

[Secret Tunnel]

I skimmed my role pm for the role. Which most people do.

[Secret Tunnel]

Thank you. I promise I am town! (I’m also townreading you fwiw but it won’t mean much until you guys figure out I am)

[Secret Tunnel]

And for the record, I did want to draw scum here. I didn’t though.

yeah?

-b

I had a talk with bob3141 in another game scum mentality. He introduced me to the concept of give the town something to solve and it actually has worked on one game of mine so far.

I wanted the chance to show up big here.

[Secret Tunnel]

This is going to be a 100 page d1 isn’t it

[Secret Tunnel]

Thank you. I promise I am town!

I can confirm this is true

-innocentvillager

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I'm curious if people find Morph/Muffin inrteractions as weird as I do.

Are you thinking s/s or what

I am townreading morph and they proved my townread of muffin was bad so idk if it makes sense as s/s

[Secret Tunnel]

Maria you seem more engaged than I’m used to from you this early tbh

[Secret Tunnel]

Even though they confused the fuck out of me I liked fferys approach to me

Both the initial pressure from not engaging her early like I used to and also I think she had no reason to give me space and could keep me on my back foot and likely get the vote from Bork/giffy

[Secret Tunnel]

I simultaneously am debating if there’s scum between morph and muffin or if I don’t like the people pushing that more

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It’s not really a secret you should know by now that both IV are very fencesitty and waffley

[Secret Tunnel]

Both iv and I

[Secret Tunnel]

Because I haven’t set the avatar For our avatar reference

Two lovers, forbidden from one another
A war divides their people
And a mountain divides them apart
Built a path to be together

[Secret Tunnel]

@bulge what do you think it is if it’s not a back off

[Secret Tunnel]

Bulge are you gonna do that thing where you express a scumread on me in the 11th hour because that would be a drag

Pedit
See the worst part is I could see town muffin doing this and town ffery doing this but I also agree that it’s weird they don’t have a townread on me but it could just be scum muffin appealing to my vanity wrt my obvtownity

[Secret Tunnel]

i don't think you've overcome your ability to hate your existence in any game you're scum

mostly because i was talking to fakegod about some game he ran recently where kuribo called you scum from d1 and i read part of it as a result

It was actually bitching about that game that sparked that convo I mentioned earlier with bob

But yeah

You grow to hate your existence more when you pick a fight with someone you don’t realize is kuribo

[Secret Tunnel]

I was going to say ask Cabd too fwiw but I wasn’t sure if it was noticebLe that game or not

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I don’t think I’m very MEable there’s too many people here familiar with my play

Especially because as is the only other professed igmeou was from you guys Bork

[Secret Tunnel]

I did make a trajectory meme post too

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Bork I think I play a different variant now candidly. Had to play games without my safety net

But I’ll talk less and show more

[Secret Tunnel]

That’s my meta shift bell

You saw how I was re bulge?

There’s 4/5 slots this game that I feel similarly on. It’s easier when I’m less familiar with people

[Secret Tunnel]

That’s my meta shift bell

You saw how I was re bulge?

There’s 4/5 slots this game that I feel similarly on. It’s easier when I’m less familiar with people

Yeah, but why would you try to jerk me toward that recollection if that recollection is no longer accurate/wasn’t accurate last game?

My point was think how I was with bulge. Now there’s five of them.

[Secret Tunnel]

Driving home now posting from computer when I get there

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That's because the context of 154 is from earlier posts.

Notsci rvs-voted me.

I joked back at him a la Mini 1699 viewtopic.php?f=53&t=62686

He changed his vote, with no actual acknowledgement of my bussing comment.

And then he put out a readslist where he says absolutely nothing about me.

That game's a decent roadmap of what our town-town interactions have evolved into. None of that showed up here. No response to my rvs reaction, no asking for reactions to his reads. none of the banter we usually put into sizing each other up, despite my immediate reach-out.

I'm putting a lot of effort into replying to you right now because I would hate to get a bad read of you much more than I'd hate it if this is town you getting a bad read on me.

I am halfway through a glass of wine but I am here now

I think its a little unfair to be expecting that level of interaction when we havent played in so long. As I said before (and even in the queue) I was excited to play with everyone!

Mala actually called me out before I started doing my tunneling in 2148 and I broke it and sat back and actually got a townread on her while sitting back and not engaging super hard. I suppose you can ask bulge if our engagements in game have felt different since before too?

(unrelated- I also looked in that game for unrelated reasons and my favorite us interaction was at the start of D2/3 where we were agreeing that if nacho and pie were scum they would be strongarming their way through the game. And they proceeded to do that.)

[Secret Tunnel]

I like Bell's interactions with me! It feels very similar to our interactions as T/T before.

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I guess my main point is I feel different playing it. Like I'm still me, but I've grown a lot over the past few years and feel like it bleeds in to what I do but the core traits are still there. If that makes sense?

This musing feels very appropriate for this game.

[Secret Tunnel]

The only time I was an actual and not an unofficial IC

Let me go look but I feel like I did have a joke response to you! It wasnt the same as our interaction there which seemed very similar and I frankly forgot that interaction until I reread it but anyways

[Secret Tunnel]

It’s their trajectory right

I think their trajectory is all over the place

Trajectory

Hi ffery!

Oh did I vote you guys? It’s dark in the tunnel sorry

VOTE: bulge

Pedit
Yeah that fakedog guy socks

Meh I guess its not as bantery as our old ones were but I dont think its as totally absent as you were saying it is? I dunno

I think it'll develop more into what we remember as the game goes on.

[Secret Tunnel]

Wait do we all have them?

[Secret Tunnel]

Im only in a weeb discord with people from here I thought they just made us a hydra PT for hte game lol

[Secret Tunnel]

I don't think joyed is scum

[Secret Tunnel]

I don't think joyed is scum

They come off as scum who’s null or town reading players. I don’t like the way they “like players” but null read “for safety”. It looks like they’re trying to keep a strong political standing while not giving full momentum to certain players, I being one of them. This also makes sense because I was gaining a little momentum earlier

My biggest gripe is I feel like hes hiding behind hydra confusion a bit.

@joyed IV has been signing it's been me.

[Secret Tunnel]

Even if we aren’t working together you realize you guys have come to the same strongest townreads I have, right.

But flip their levels of strength for me(bulge joyed over the other two)

[Secret Tunnel]

Wasn’t one of you calling my reads on those four wrong earlier too?

I agree re S_S. I don’t really remember prisms posting so I need to revisit it.

[Secret Tunnel]

Bulge is town

Vote on me is boring

50% is not a passing grade, either.

[Secret Tunnel]

Ohhhhhh I thought you were saying of the four reads you disagreed with two

[Secret Tunnel]

I liked fferys interactions with me and I think it makes sense to be confused why the interactions not the same even if I do think it’s a bit of an over expectation. I don’t think your play this game would hinge on pocketing someone just as likely to be overly paranoid of you by making me work for my townread

I also don’t think you had to back off when you did?

But I can also see bulges and muffins POV and they are on the outside lookin in so that’s kinda irking me a little bit

[Secret Tunnel]

Maria feels different than I expected but I’m not sure it’s scum indicative.

I don’t know how I feel about Ludgate because it started as a bunch of bragging and my eyes have glazed over their posts so they’re probably due for a look over in the morning

Alisae as a nonentity is concerning as well but I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt

[Secret Tunnel]

I think I might be going too easy on some people.

Hm.

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She was more present than I expected? She seemed much more of a later in the game engager in our finished micro. But I’m by no means an expert on reading her so I’m not really shoving it super hard and leaving her be for a bit

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Yeah it was 8p lovers.

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And maybe it’s because she was doing more things in her PT than main thread. I need to go revisit.

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Didnt we already cover that bulge isnt going to elaborate on his read on me until the 11th hour today

I thought we did.

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Some people got missed on the game start PM.

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Bulge I am v confused on this muffin vs morph thing where’s your head at

[Secret Tunnel]

Nice sig lol.

[Secret Tunnel]

Its probably the avatar change. If you go back to the old one it'll prob fix it muffin

I don't hate anything April's posted.

[Secret Tunnel]

Bulge I am v confused on this muffin vs morph thing where’s your head at

[Secret Tunnel]

IV's been signing I havent

pedit-
It feels very similar to their read on me

[Secret Tunnel]

I never do either of things I don't know what I did to you that would make you think that in all the games weve been through

[Secret Tunnel]

Who do you think is town atm?

pedit-
no im memeing with bulge

[Secret Tunnel]

Why Ali? I agree with the others.

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Bell if its any consolation I'm pretty confident hes town this game

[Secret Tunnel]

Bell if its any consolation I'm pretty confident hes town this game

Why?

How much of his play do you remember? You remember his early D1 where I kept having to get him to do things?

[Secret Tunnel]

He's gone out and done stuff from the getgo. That game he was very backseat until he had to be if you remember.

[Secret Tunnel]

You could also note his read on me. He had no problem calling me otwn there to placate me but is he doing it here? No (I guess you could argue that could mean im scum but dont you think itd be easier to townread/hard bus each other in that instance

[Secret Tunnel]

Lmk how i can assist you joyed. If you have any problems.

@bulge, NS,IAI, hello?

Hi Bell

-innocentvillager

[Secret Tunnel]

AtE in a vacuum is not a scum indicator

-innocentvillager

[Secret Tunnel]

Sure, Bulge is town

-innocentvillager

[Secret Tunnel]

Yes

-innocentvillager

[Secret Tunnel]

But like also Jesus Christ you guys can post

-innocentvillager

[Secret Tunnel]

I was scumreading you the whole time I just had trouble clowning you

[Secret Tunnel]

Sell me on April and muffin Bork

[Secret Tunnel]

We’re definitely going a few too layers deep for me too Bork lol

[Secret Tunnel]

It’s okay you got the true obvtown right :p

I don’t know where I want to wagon still.

[Secret Tunnel]

April’s one of the few I don’t have any sort of a townread on at this point but I don’t necessarily find them scummy either.

And yes. The back and forth with morph mixed me up pretty well. Hoping to cover with IV once he’s read up.

[Secret Tunnel]

April’s one of the few I don’t have any sort of a townread on at this point but I don’t necessarily find them scummy either.

And yes. The back and forth with morph mixed me up pretty well. Hoping to cover with IV once he’s read up.

Mixed you up about what?

My head says I like my interactions with ffery

My gut says why is there so much shade coming at you guys and muffin from various directions is there something I’m not seeing

[Secret Tunnel]

Cabd watches games he not in joyed

[Secret Tunnel]

@cabd what did you think of marias readslist

[Secret Tunnel]

Right, Secret Tunnel’s a big scum spect too

Have fun with that I won't be clownable by the end of today

[Secret Tunnel]

What’s the point of nitpicking that? Is there a read given all of that analysis SS?

-innocnetvillager

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Like I guess I just don’t see the issue/AIness with being able to shift people around in the nully tiers given the explanations plus gave.

-innocentvillager

[Secret Tunnel]

Update: it turns out the top two reads in that list are the only ones I really liked.

My theory is that +J's reads are not as pronounced as he's making them out to be and a lot of the people in the middle tiers were somewhat arbitrarily ordered.

It just pinged me because this ^ almost sounds like you found a reason to shade him here without committing to an actual read.

-innocentvillager

[Secret Tunnel]

It feels like you are saying “this readslist is forced and arbitrary” but now you’re not committing to a read which is a bit incongruous.

-innocentvillager

[Secret Tunnel]

Plus, I don’t know if I agree that those are the exact and only primary motivations for each alignment but I do think you’re thinking in the right way about this. I personally don’t townlean or scumlean SS from his handling of the situation; in either case it seems he was just pointing something out that wasn’t necessarily AI in his mind.

-innocentvillager

[Secret Tunnel]

I don’t want my chapter I just wanna know if you guys realized I’m town so we can start getting this thing moving

[Secret Tunnel]

Why am I scum April?

[Secret Tunnel]

I am not going to lie I’m very concerned about my varying degrees of townreads of the meta block/the bulge

I feel like it isn’t likely we all Drew town.

[Secret Tunnel]

Okay. Makes sense. It probably would be the best strategy if I were scum here (let someone I’m comfortable with make a wagon and sheep it) but it’s also how I’d play it as town so meh.

Pedit-
@morph what are you guys thinking of Maria I’m not loving her posts or her readslist tbh

[Secret Tunnel]

I’m at work so I’ll be sporadic for at least half an hour until I’m driving home

[Secret Tunnel]

My job this playerlist is to obv town, figure out who to sheep and sheep them

It is a different situation from the game you played with me.

[Secret Tunnel]

IV is honestly struggling to keep up with all the pages. He’s doing his best to catch up but it’s hard to read through meta fights for pages if you don’t know it.

[Secret Tunnel]

She lurked in that micro I played with bulge and did more d2.

Candidly she’s done more here d1 than she did as town there.

Pedit

Meh I’m at 2/6 atm I’ll be at 6/6 soon enough

[Secret Tunnel]

We don’t care about these semantics this argument is dumb

[Secret Tunnel]

Bear if you want the chance to get a read on me ask me things

It’s hard to help you see the light if you don’t ask questions :p

Pedit
No I’ve flaked on too many hydras to count I’m not really pressed

[Secret Tunnel]

Yep.

[Secret Tunnel]

I’m pretty sure more people are watching me than say things.

If you note- Bork said giffy explicitly asked about me before he catches up.

Bulge isn’t saying anything about me because he likes to sit on his read.

Morphs been my main interaction because they came out of the gate tunneling me and backed off.

Muffins been townreading me.

Bells said he knows he finds me scummy

Maria has me at null

You haven’t really interacted with me prior to this

April said Im playing how she’d expect scum to play

Joyed thinks we’re town but I look like I have tmi on bulge (?)

Shit post slot has ignored me

S_S hasn’t commented either

[Secret Tunnel]

I feel like we’ve covered I’m incredibly self aware wrt that as a playstyle thing

Might not have been this game but I normally am

[Secret Tunnel]

2.5/6

Hi giffy! Feeling better?

Morph where are you at re April? That slot I’m wavering back and forth on pretty heavily.

[Secret Tunnel]

In my defense I’ve had a long day

I put new headlights in my car all by myself! Never done it before and am super proud of myself for adulting.

Also work but that’s less exciting :p

[Secret Tunnel]

Are you guys not townreading bulge? Why?

I feel like I’m not hating anything April says outright and I can’t even figure out what it is that irking me re them but meh

Pedit
Inb4 wisdom replaces in and 200 page d1

[Secret Tunnel]

I’m watching him but he’s still pretty comfortably town. If he is scum he’s going to keep me alive anyways, frankly.

[Secret Tunnel]

Who are you two up to wagon?

I’m struggling to really get scumreads this game tbh.

[Secret Tunnel]

I forgot about it but I wasn’t a huge fan

[Secret Tunnel]

VOTE: maria

Not super opposed to joyed anymore. Still thinking him over.

And yeah. I also thinks all of us are experiencing this concern to a degree.

[Secret Tunnel]

IVs almost caught up! He was mid fifties this morning.

@alisae I’m not townreading either of you. I guess that’s the closest thing to scumread I have this game

[Secret Tunnel]

are you a gambler notty

Hell no

Pedit
See that list is weird

I’m at

Bell
Bulge
Bear
Morph
Remi

Muffin
S_S
Joyed

April
Ali
Maria
420

[Secret Tunnel]

My reads are very clearly based on who’s low hanging fruit and not by strength of my townreads

As I’ve said and developed all game

Partially alongside players currently alive I’m townreading

But sure I’m going after LHF

[Secret Tunnel]

Ffery you guys see he’s baiting you, right? He’s trying to drown the thread in yet another fight.

[Secret Tunnel]

like okay ya maybe this could be scum ig

Why?

Why do you seem so disengaged? You felt like you did way more in Smuggler's port. It's also very weird you think this could be my scumplay because I definitely look way different here than I did there where I was scum.

is any of this proof of morph scum?

Maybe I just play with myself too much but I have no issue questioning people whose reads on me dont meet the norm for the game.

Okay, I can get with this.

I don't understand your trajectory wrt me. You just said I have potential to be scum for going with the flow, letting morph take the lead for me. I tell you Im working with my townreads and following along with them where they want to go and you can get with that? Like I feel like that should have tipped your read further towards the red.

who was this to?

April? Who just accused my readslist of being to explicitly target LHF? Who has since replied to that post? Are you reading?

I’m here with ya. Through and through. You, me, Plus, Remelia. We have a bond now that nobody can ever take away. We’re the friendly foursome.

This feels very buddy-esque.

April? I don't really agree. I think this is a bout of paranoia.

Idk I feel like my gameview is such a stark difference from a few others and its starting to concern me a lot. I get such agenda vibes from April but I think its just playstyle so im trying to separate it from my read on them given everyone who seems familiar with them has townreads on them. But it seems like everyones townreading everyone else they're familiar with this game.

[Secret Tunnel]

Bear I’m still waiting for real engagement from you. Don’t get yourself out of one tunnel on town into another, please.

[Secret Tunnel]

I didn’t remember it the same way you did but on re-evaluation I guess I did kinda pocket you.

I’m still not scum here but meh.

Pedit
See I both agree with this post but also feel like you’d recognize the lay of the land and know it’s a good place to be

Pedit2
I just don’t like how focused your play is on agendas but I digress

[Secret Tunnel]

I just don’t think it makes sense for scum them to come out of the gate shoving me and then muffin. Much easier to keep me at arms length. I don’t think ffery had to back off her push of me when she did either, it was likely she would have been able to get a remi vote and put me even further on my back foot.

I also think them warming up to me had a pretty noticeable trajectory in thread.

Pedit
Lmao, probably phrased that wrong

[Secret Tunnel]

I seriously doubt I’m the big threat they’d want to neutralize though. That’s why that view of the game state is weird to me.

Pedit
My point is why me. I don’t really lead much in these games so isn’t it better to take on someone with an actual shot of getting them clowned and put them off early?

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Im saying if it’s a strategic choice made (in the thread of this agenda talk) it’s not the one I’d make if I were in their shoes.

I don’t think anyone’s commented on it but we have a lot of people who know each other all townreading each other on both sides of the town. Idk what this means it’s just bugging me.

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No he’s still in the mid 50s I’m pretty sure

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but when people with high levels of familiarity with each other are all townreading each other that’s where my issue is

We can’t all be right

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Bulge I want your thoughts on this in particular I think you’re enough on the outskirts for an interesting PoV

Pedit

I’m just trying to explain my train of thought bc you were questioning it lol

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I don’t think scum intentionally do things out of their town meta

I just think there are gAps to the accuracy of the portrayal

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Maybe I’m just thinking in my own perspective but i don’t do things with the thought of “this is against my town meta” if That makes sense

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Can you give me the short version of why they’re scum?

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I’m very curious what you guys are getting up to tonight morph but I’m gonna be patient and see

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Yes April I’m aware you think they’re scum I would like to see what they plan on doing today

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Bork I’m concerned there seems to be two separate meta circles townreading amongst themselves.

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I don’t think it’s likely an entire group like that drew scum together.

And I don’t think it’s likely scum lies solely in the outliers from said groups either.

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I’m not really in theirs. I think bell and bear universal townreads that somewhat transcend the circles. I have to revisit but I feel like S_S, Alisae, Maria and April are the other circle.

Ours is something like you me remi muffin with bulge on the edge.

I don’t know what’s off kilter. It seems like the reads in and of itself are mirroring each other just in the separate groups

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Regardless of what you think about the meta circles, at LEAST one person is probably confident meta townreading someone incorrectly, aka they are getting duped.

Does everyone really think that their scum!familiars won’t do their damndest in this plist to subvert their scum meta, knowing that there are tight meta circles here with certain players having a good record of reading them?

I don’t have much of an opinion on who is wrong. But notscience certainly has a point that there are too many townreads being floated around for them all to be correct. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure every slot has been reasonably townread this game by someone. This is not a desirable gamestate, in my opinion, and I think the meta townreads need to be rethunk.

-innocentvillager

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The morph push is interesting and while I don’t agree with it, I don’t think it’s a bad thing for this gamestate. The worst thing it can do is cause more noise if we are actually doing an almost good enough job at forming the requisite town blocks (I say almost because, again, someone is wrong). I don’t think it is being done in bad faith, but I will be watching that very closely. I’m also very curious in Maria’s adamance about April/us being SvT.

-innocentvillager

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Yeah, Plus I think our main role is to kind of just tap on the glass dome from the outside and poke around. It’s a kind of strange game dynamic as either alignment that we just kind of have to make the best of.

I haven’t decided if it’s worth going into the meta myself to familiarize or not. The problem is it’s hard for me to determine which meta reads should be weighted seriously and which ones shouldn’t, especially when shouted with similar levels of confidence. I’m going to lean no, but I’m still kind of new at this kind of game.

-innocentvillager

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To address this one specifically though, while I agree that the possibility of dupes day one is significant, my return to the site in 2020 has really proven to me that "Sometimes it really is just that easy".

Dancegame Anon II, was as simple as sorting by post count and eliminating from the bottom.

Newbie 2024 was the same.

Do you have a specific read of ours, or of either block's, really, that you think is particularly likely wrong?

I can definitely get behind the sentiment of this. Sometimes it really is just that easy, and paranoia about a solve that’s probably not too far off can obviously sometimes be detrimental, and I like you citing recent examples as a way to get into your mindset about this because I feel similarly about some of mine.

I do think it may be easier for you to not feel worry yet, having lots of meta reads and sync’d at times with your other half, to be more confident in them. It is not as easy for me to do the same, having only a couple meta reads of my own that I feel semi-okay about, and mostly just watching everyone else townread their friends. I have yet to see something like “I know town!X, and this isn’t it, so scumread” at this point in the game - it feels as though all those reads have moved on either to just being unfounded or scum subverting it well. I would expect that in this kind of game where familiars are meta reading each other well.

Re: specific people, that’s a good question that I need to think more about beyond just the strength of my own townreads. I think I’ll let you know if I come up with specific names.

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-innocentvillager ^

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Maybe we're being arrogant in seeing our ability to townbloc-build as something that scum-zmuffin might want to shut down, rather than infiltrate. It would have been so easy to infiltrate. Which is probably a strong argument for zmuffin-town playing this way around us.

This is interesting and potentially the best defense of muffin I have seen this game, if it’s true. I don’t doubt that you believe it but I do doubt that it’s necessarily that easy for scum!muffin to do so/would actively choose this approach over just taking free content for coming at you.

-innocentvillager

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The more townreads people have, naturally the more mind boggling it is that you are not caring town.

-innocentvillager

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People want an easy solve D1. With so many townreads no one wants to narrow the PoE further by considering a zero content poster as town, so the most natural sort is scum not caring.

Unfortunately this is a lazy sort for town and a convenient sort for scum so it’s hard to tell who’s doing what.

And muffin, I can see where your uneasiness comes from and it’s interesting that you decided to not take the easy sort on Prism slot.

-innocentvillager

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Does everyone really think that their scum!familiars won’t do their damndest in this plist to subvert their scum meta, knowing that there are tight meta circles here with certain players having a good record of reading them?

With April, actually, I do think this, because in almost every game I've played with scum-him, I've caught him and he's gone on to win anyway. That's how he rolls.

But it's also a silly argument, because the whole point of meta is to use tells that you believe the person can't willingly manipulate.

I think this is kind of helpful to know. Im not attacking the idea of meta usage in general even knowing there might be some attempt to expand scumranges.

I guess what I’m saying is not all meta reads are created equal and if you truly believe it and justify it like this I would weight that a little higher.

-innocentvillager

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Sure SS, I’m all for trusting confident reads like this from people who are using meta patiently and thoughtfully.

-innocentvillager

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420, I’m here in my garage wondering if you actually think Morph is scum or does it just look fun? No worries if it’s the latter, I love lolwagons.

-innocentvillager

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you’re scum who played me yesterday

You have nothing to fear, the only person notscience plays with is himself

-innocentvillager

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If I think ST is town, then it’s TvT.

Irrefutable logic.

Bell I think it’s literally just a semantics thing, April saying we’re TvT is literally just saying he thinks our slot is town. It’s not necessarily some outsider characterization of the nature of our interaction.

-innocentvillager

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but when people with high levels of familiarity with each other are all townreading each other that’s where my issue is

We can’t all be right

Bulge I want your thoughts on this in particular I think you’re enough on the outskirts for an interesting PoV

Pedit

I’m just trying to explain my train of thought bc you were questioning it lol

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notscience's thoughts on April:

"What town invest claims not under duress"
"I think they are overtly playing so over the top because it would lead to them getting PoEd"

@ffery @bulge

-innocentvillager

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clarification from notscience: "They are playing over the top like this because otherwise the PoE sets in"

-innocentvillager

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from me: my other half is busy and will detail his thoughts later but for now he just wants @ffery and @bulge to see it.

Personally, I'm still just kind of confused by the whole thing. I don't really know why you keep using vague comments like "confirmable" (what does that mean?), kill you if you survive to "late game"/"endgame" (what day/phase is that)? Why were you softing the whole time with this vague term "confirmable" and kind of hard claimed despite not being in real danger?

I'm bad with closed games so I'm sorry if talking about any of this is antitown, feel free to ignore me on anything; I'm just puzzled and it's hard to try and sort you when I don't understand.

-innocentvillager

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Well, it certainly seems like you're doing a good job at gamestate manipulation(?)

-innocentvillager

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Hmm I think I might leave questioning of your slot to others for now and just kind of... try to observe harder.

-innocentvillager

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I’m back sliding on TV for NS’s wooden perspective.

Huh?

-innocentvillager

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Skimming while I can at work and getting thoughts out before I get sidetracked

But sure

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I also don’t care what reputation or whatever because as morphs already noted I’m just reading every post as egotistical

I don’t like stupid shit like that but it’s not really worth the argument at this point in time

Pedit
As I said before I’m not really clownsble this game unless the game state is explicitly set up for it down the road

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Bork my bigger issue is how many times it’s changed

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It’s adding unnecessary layers to parse to a game that already has a ton.

Whatever. I’m fine clowning Ali today, I’m fine clowning Maria.

I don’t want to clown

Bulge
Bell
Bear
Bork
Morph

I’ll vote whoever else. Would rather not vote ss or muffin.

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If Alisae flips scum, this can go next.

Best of luck with that.

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Morph I’ll be around in an hour if either of you want to hash anything out. Going to go for now because I’m both getting annoyed and procrastinating work too much

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notscience's thoughts on April:

"What town invest claims not under duress"
"I think they are overtly playing so over the top because it would lead to them getting PoEd"

@ffery @bulge

-innocentvillager

This one. It pings me as being unimaginative.

NS’s viewpoint could probably be described in many ways but I don’t think unimaginative is one of them. If anything it takes more imagination to distrust the claim and come up with scum!April narratives.

-innocentvillager

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I’m just floating this idea out there, again just an idea. But maybe we can compromise and give April some “time limit”. I don’t like the vague sense of timeline he keeps mentioning, it seems too easy for scum!April to weasel/talk his way out of it.

If it’s D3 and he isn’t reasonably confirmable we elim the slot.

I just want to see what people think of this idea first. If it’s an antitown idea we don’t have to continue discussing it.

-innocentvillager

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I’m just floating this idea out there, again just an idea. But maybe we can compromise and give April some “time limit”. I don’t like the vague sense of timeline he keeps mentioning, it seems too easy for scum!April to weasel/talk his way out of it.

If it’s D3 and he isn’t reasonably confirmable we elim the slot.

I just want to see what people think of this idea first. If it’s an antitown idea we don’t have to continue discussing it.

-innocentvillager

Dude, it's just a fancier miller claim.

We have public alignment counts. The specific time to kill it with fire is the day before EL-LO.

I don’t really know how to deal with a miller claim either, sorry I’m bad lol.

But okay. If we can say day before ELO then I’m all for that, that seems like a pretty reasonable way to deal with the slot.

-innocentvillager

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It’s adding unnecessary layers to parse to a game that already has a ton.

Whatever. I’m fine clowning Ali today, I’m fine clowning Maria.

I don’t want to clown

Bulge
Bell
Bear
Bork
Morph

I’ll vote whoever else. Would rather not vote ss or muffin.

this

Why, what pinged you? fwiw, I don’t want to elim any of these 5 slots either.

Fine with eliming SS or Muffin though personally.

-innocentvillager

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Is it because you feel you two + Prism slot are the LHF of the gamestate, or was it the way it was worded?

-innocentvillager

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Surely this read of you and Maria at the bottom has been present throughout NS’s ISO, it’s not exactly a secret. Why bring it up now and not before?

-innocentvillager

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I think Alisae or ST is the play as of now. I think we should start consolidating votes onto them.

I think both of these slots are likely town.

-innocentvillager

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Surely this read of you and Maria at the bottom has been present throughout NS’s ISO, it’s not exactly a secret. Why bring it up now and not before?

-innocentvillager

cause I just noticed it?

IVs almost caught up! He was mid fifties this morning.

@alisae I’m not townreading either of you. I guess that’s the closest thing to scumread I have this game

are you a gambler notty

Hell no

Pedit
See that list is weird

I’m at

Bell
Bulge
Bear
Morph
Remi

Muffin
S_S
Joyed

April
Ali
Maria
420

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Hey you, you never answered my question.

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I'm weirded out by the mirrored meta blocs all townreading each other but given I am immersed in one (even if I'm not as townread as I should be but I digress) I dont have a clear viewpoint.

It feels like both sides of them are saying "yup this person is playing like they play as town." And the degrees of certainty are mirrored. I think its incredibly unlikely scum is all in one meta bloc or is all in the outliers.

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@bork
I can see that. It's not exactly fun to play with. But it doesn't make him scum.

pedit-
I've literally been waiting for bulge's input on this. And he asked me to rephrase my stance.

If you're going to vote me, do it.

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I'm weirded out by the mirrored meta blocs all townreading each other but given I am immersed in one (even if I'm not as townread as I should be but I digress) I dont have a clear viewpoint.

It feels like both sides of them are saying "yup this person is playing like they play as town." And the degrees of certainty are mirrored. I think its incredibly unlikely scum is all in one meta bloc or is all in the outliers.

Would you say this is






giving town a puzzle to solve?

I would probably be playing this way more aggressively if I were scum.

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I noted this yea, watching within the blocs closely is probably a good way of keeping tabs on the gamestate for now

I mean I could see a world where Maria/Alisae are doing what got you onto my case in the micro but then we have April and S_S both with experience with them saying they seemd town (correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I remembered)

But I also think its not likely its all LHF and there's noone non-LHF I want to clown.

pedit-
This game, bork. Cabd watched my last game. I did stoke paranoia, which I guess is somewhat similar to what I'm doing here, but I looked for opportunities to try and take advantage of said paranoia, which I have not done here.

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I'm not super stoked with prism. I have another read in your upper echelons I'm sitting on ATM because I want to see how it shakes out.

pedit-
3.5/6

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If I don't make it to 4.5/6 I don't pass.

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Midwaybear is hatcheting me. Might be a scum tell. Which makes sense if they are partners with one of Alisae/ST here.

Look at the types of posts Midwaybear is posting in comparison to earlier. Theyre actively tying to play damage control right now.

what?

Amazing

-innocentvillager

Um

Goodbye

[Secret Tunnel]

Actually I rescind prism. I went and looked over their ISO and I kinda liked their early progression on us.

I don't think Bulge is scum here though. I don't think a team of S_S, Ali, Maria is likely either.