Mini #643: Time Capsule Mafia, Game Over

[pacman281292]

OMG, two bandwagons in a day?!?!?! That's odd (wait, this game screws up time)

The first wagon was extremely scummy -Darox randomvoted, and it's normal in a game-, the second is people jumping very quickly into conclussions (I had just seen an example of that into a game at another forum). I'm confused. I hate long posts with billions of quotes (as Rotten Snitch and Yhtill ones).

I'm confused. I will think in a good post later.

[pacman281292]

I'm feared of Ythill. His strategy (quoting posts from everyone and making comments that (I think) are pointless) reminds me about my first online mafia game (A large normal or theme, I don't know how to classify it), where someone was quoting everyone's posts, making pointless comments, and voting and FoSing. I got suspicious of him and (oh surprise) it was my first lynched scum!

I find Ythill's super-quoting posts extremely like those. But, that isn't enough reason for voting.

FoS: Ythill

, reasons above + placing someone at L-3 without serious reasons.

NOTE: link to the game I'm talking you about. The guy I'm talking about was lynched a lot of pages later

[pacman281292]

Ythill is either misrepresenting, forgetting, or not understanding several of the points made already.

Most of the replies to Ythill's points have been said already by various people, and Roffman's covered that post pretty well, so instead of being an echo I would like to state that like Battousai that I would be voting Ythill if not for how early in the day it is and the number of votes he has against him.

*goodposting*

@melikefood: did you have good reasons for hammah?
@Ythill: Voting yourself was stupid, no matter of your alignment. The fun of a mafia game is

fight

for the victory of your faction. A self-hammah (or a self-L-1) is bad for town (less arguments to scumhunt) if you are protown, and bad for scum for obvious reasons if you are proscum.
@petroleumjelly: are alignments revealed? or not?

[pacman281292]

I forgot something:

LIMITED ACCESS UNTIL TOMOROW AFTERNOON.

sorry.

[pacman281292]

Ok, I'll

VOTE:Pacman

for right now. I went back and looked at day 1 by him. The reason I looked at his was because when I looked at the last post it was by pacman, and I was like "Is pacman even in this game?" Turns out he is with 3 posts yesterday. The first post was commenting on the 2 early bandwagons. The second was a FOS on ythill, using a past game experience that pacman had in a similar situation to back up his reason. And his third post was saying darox made a good post, questioning food's hammer and ythill's self vote.

Sorry. I'm confused, and I have an excesive amount of homework. I can't post all time, and I have my head at other place.
About melikefood... I don't know. I'm confused, and we have really few info about Ythill with the no-reveal. And the hammah might be a confusion... maybe he typed a long post, but he saw a lot of mistakes and erased all... that can take 10 minutes...

[pacman281292]

Couldn't get on until now, sorry for delay. I voted pacman to hopefully encourage others to place their vote their for pressure. Since that has not happened,

UNVOTE

.

Now, I'm going to

Vote: Clammy

. I basically just skimmed to save time (will reread in morning before I leave), but your recent posts give me the read that you are trying to shift attention away from where the conversation is heading by talking about a mechanic of the game in which is not beneficial, as we can not control who has paper and what they write about.

I can't understand why do you want to put pressure over me. But, the last part of that is really *goodposting*

I found this from clammy:

I'm voting him for jumping as easy as shit onto the MLF wagon!

What do you mean here?!?!?!?! That post was extremely scummy. You are trying to shift attention from the discussion, as Battousai said. But not only that; you are trying to lynch MLF without reason (if you have reason, please explain) But, I will only say:

EXTREME FoS: clammy

. I don't know how many people is voting you, and I don't want to make an accidental hammah. I want to know the voting situation before making something.

Mod: Votecount, please.

Sorry. My grammar is really bad.

[pacman281292]

Wow, I can't understand...

I would listen jayfin's post... but I' really confused...
The game is going into useless stuff. We must catch up any good discussion as soon as possible.

Again, sorry for inactivity.

[pacman281292]

I'm suspicious of clammy. He is really pissed off about a lynch.
The more we discuss, the more we have. And the more we have, the easier we lynch scum.
Buit, anyways, we are on a deadline.

I'm not sure about roffman's claim. We will not find out anything if he is lynched. We must try to use all the possible time for finding a good lynch (I mean, a scum lynch)

No, I was going to wait.

FomS

Because I have faith in your reading comprehension

Anyway, I'll Vote Roffman.

But I'll ask for a Vote count first

so that we don't end the day before we need to.

It would have been a hammer, yeah. If we hammer without asking, we might arrive to a lot of accidental town lynches. I can't understand the "reading comprehension" part.

FomS: melikefood.

Sorry if my grammar is confusing

[pacman281292]

ow >_<

bye roff

[pacman281292]

Please, be aware about papers. I'm scared, because some papers might be from the scum, and they might be trying to trick us... It's possible, and if they write a fake cop inspection, we will die X(

I don't know what to say about these papers... my brain is tired...

[pacman281292]

I think that the first paper (D2) was spam. This is a MAFIA game. So, how would you say "there is no scum"? I think that it was, either a paper from the mod (trying to confuse us), or a breadcrumbing cop (how? It is possible, but...), or a stupid paper from the scum or any fool player.

These papers (D3) must be analyzed carefully. Those papers (and the 12 pages of in-thread stuff) are the only info we have (still with the danger of falling into a possible scum paper owner, the same risk of analyzing posts).

About the crap, I think that I have seen someone saying sometimes "Crap, I missed that". Either I'm insane (possible), or it is happening.

Sorry for the horrible grammar

[pacman281292]

Hmm.

Yosarian's cop claim says he got results of 'not mafia' rather than 'innocent'.

This seems suggests you could not be mafia, but also not be town.
Combine this with the first paper note...

Don't know what to make of it, but I'm not eliminating the idea of a third party.

??!!

If Yos's claim is true, then they might be survivors or jesters, but....
Your logic is really bad. I read enough Mini Games, and I've seen that the general setup is 8 town, 1 third-party, 3 scum. NOT 2 third-party.

FomS: Darox

In my opinion, the first paper is a hoax from the scum, and the other papers might as well be pro-town or pro-scum. But they might have been written on Day 1 and placed on the 2003 capsule. That's the meaning of my top-of-last-page post

[pacman281292]

Pacman just suggested that there could be a third party, which supports what I was suggesting.

ehm... only one third-party at max (town is underpowered, and I think that it's very possible to not to have it).

[pacman281292]

ehm... only one third-party at max (town is underpowered, and I think that it's very possible to not to have it).

I wasn't suggesting

multiple

third parties.

What makes you think the town is underpowered?

No-reveal. That makes the town become an extremely uninformed team.

[pacman281292]

And you don't think the town would have something to make up for that?

Does not compute *explodes*


Sorry, I didn't understand the question.

Oh, I will be LA during the weekend. Sorry.

[pacman281292]

Oh, I will be LA during the weekend. Sorry.

For a weird reason, I didn't get LA. So, I'm still here

[pacman281292]

Well, we can either massclaim today, or wait one more day. Might be better to wait one more day; probably better if the scum don't know tonight if there's a doctor alive who can protect me or not.

I agree with Yosarian. Don't massclaim today.

Something new to discussion?

[pacman281292]

As such, I am going to

Vote: pacman281292

He has posted very little content, and hasn't voted once throughout the entire game. I think we could stand to hear a bit more from him. We could stand to hear a bit more from everyone else too, but for now I'm going to look at pacman.

Do you want a vote from me? OK, here you are:

Vote: Darox
Unvote.

I hadn't posted good content because I am really confused. We have very little info (a cop claim and no idea about alignments of the dead people due to no-reveal). There is very little info to work with (the cop claim only tells us "MLF and clammy are town or GF"), so I don't know what to say.

Happy?

[pacman281292]

EBWOP: LOL, 100TH POST!

[pacman281292]

I'm at L-2... I think that it's time to claim...

@TSPN: That vote was sarcasm. Not OMGUS.
I hadn't voted because either I arrived late (random voting) or I didn't understand things well (roffman, now). I rarely random vote.
@KoC: same as TSPN. And I agree with RS's last post. You are really jumpy.

FoS: KoC.

And... my claim.
I am...
*drumroll*
.
.
.
Well, I'm a Horticultist.
I had two seeds at Pregame. One was an ivy seed, the other was a "bleeding hearts". I have no idea what the seeds do. I had to place them on capsules; I placed ivy on the 2002 capsule and the other in 2005 capsule. If you reread PJ's post opening day 2, you will find out that there were some ivy curls into the capsule. I placed them.
But, they might bloom if I time things "correctly", so I have no idea if the other seed would bloom.

Sorry if I have grammar mistakes.

[pacman281292]

That was semi-random. I had no idea about how did the seeds work, so I put them the way I did.

[pacman281292]

I'm protown. I forgot it.

And, Darox, what did you like? A quote from the Role PM who would inmediately modkill me?

Why do my role sound neutral, KoC?

[pacman281292]

If I'm unlucky, the 2005 seed might not bloom.

I have no idea about the paper. It's obvious that in a MAFIA game there are factions... if not then all this would be a stupid joke

I guess that this might be a really weird kind of Inventor... but if it is, then it is the WEIRDEST inventor ever (I have no idea about how to use the plants...)

[pacman281292]

Answering questions:

If anything, I'd say pacman's role leans anti-town, since the odds are his first seed was false.

Anti-town? I have no idea what the seeds do. Am I guilty for it?

I don't like someone who does not vote then joke votes when called on it.

I didn't vote because I had weak reasons or because I just didn't understand a wagon. My vote-unvote was a sarcasm.

I rarely randomvote (maybe because when I arrive random voting is over? IDK). Sometimes I have an outrageous behaviour and I make an overeager vote (NG624), but it's not my case here. I'm trying to have a calm playstyle (with some outraging during day 2), and now you all say that I must vote or I'm scum? I can't understand that, sorry.

[pacman281292]

Why would we be here a while KoC?
I have contributed quite a bit and from what it seems i don't really matter too much because nobody reads my posts. I guess it goes with my claim.
I am townie with a paper which is why I have been so curious about the papers. Why would I get one if I have no role at all. I don't know what to write on it being as no one believes the papers anyway I have been perplexed as to why I was even given one.

hmm... I think that the papers might be used to give them to a power investigative role. That would be another trick into this game...

next?

[pacman281292]

I am the mortician.
Each night I target someone who died and I learn their alignment. I targeted the lynches because I figured anyone who got night killed was innocent.
Ythill wasn't mafia, roffman was.
I started with no paper, but I received one piece of paper day 2.

I pick Food.

Did you write the paper saying "two scum left"?

Just wondering...

[pacman281292]

Post-massclaim conclusions:

Either pacman's seeds are false, or darox is lying.
Darox' role is eminently believable, because, well, we have to have

some

way of concluding alignment off of lynch, right?
Pacman's play has not been pro-town,

and

he never made any substantive comment on roffman.

So I think pacman is the lynch for the day.

hmm...

False dilemma, guy. Had you been considering that SOMEONE MIGHT HAVE BEEN FAKECLAIMING HERE??
Why didn't I discuss about roff? BECAUSE I was confused. That discussion was really difuse, and I was not completely sure to jump for someone.

HoS: TheSweatpantsNinja.

Wait... I've been criticized for not voting! So, why not:

Vote: TheSweatpantsNinja

NOTE: I've been to busy, due to homework. Expect some low activity from me until at least Monday. Sorry.

[pacman281292]

Um...pacman, we're lynching Rotten Snitch today. Unless he's your scumbuddy?

hmm...
I haven't read RS well. I need to reread him more carefully for going into a wagon over him. And, I see that TSPN is using any possible way (false dilemmas, some weak explanations, the fact that I missed to type "I'm protown" into my role claim) for going for me, just because I have low activity/low experience/some weird outrageous posts on D2. That's the reason I voted him over RS. Anyways, I will try to read through RS (but I might fail, as it usually happens to me) and post some thoughts.

[pacman281292]

Ah, ok...so you're now assuming that darox's seed left a random paper in the capsule? What are you basng that on? I mean, I'm sure the seed probably did something, but that wouldn't be my guess as to what.

Well, if pacman's seed wasn't responsible for the paper, then we have the coincidence of one item placed in the capsule with no apparent effect, and one paper out of the capsule with no apparent source. I find that coincidence pretty unlikely.

the fact that I missed to type "I'm protown" into my role claim

That was darox, actually. Go ahead and tack up "misrepresentation" on your list of things I'm trying to get you lynched for.

hmm...
With that list, I was saying those WEAK reasons you have for lynching me. Add strawmanning there.
For the second part... I'm really sorry. I misread one of your posts

It looks like you are really tunnelvisioned on me. I hate that, too.

More stuff coming tomorrow. I have my head overloaded
HEY I HAVE JUST NOTED THAT DEADLINE IS TOMORROW?!?!?!?!?!


I will try to get access on the morning, and make a better post.

[pacman281292]

I think the last remaining scum is almost certainly one of iceman/pacman. Neither of them were on the rs wagon, iceman was a latecomer to roffman (and again, pacman wasn't on it at all). I'm inclined to lean iceman for today, if only because we've almost hit the 2005 capsule anyway, and pacman can be better evaluated then.

Vote iceman.

hey guy, you are again with your false dilemmas...

I was not voting RS because I was voting you (and because I didn't read RS well, as pointed out somewhere yesterday). For me, you seemed more suspicious, due to the way you had tunnelvissioned on me, and all the logical fails into your attacks.

hmm... I need to take a reread on iceman. I think that I will have a decision tomorrow morning.

[pacman281292]

hey guy, you are again with your false dilemmas...

Hey guy, I'm not creating a dilemma for anyone else. I said

I think

the scum is almost definitely one of you and iceman. And which part of my logic is fail? The part where you haven't been on either the scum wagon? That's fact. The part where your seed almost definitely was anti-town? That's not absolute fact, but it seems pretty self-evident to me.

Aaahh... Yeah, thanks for clearing it.
Which part of your logic is fail? Your logic during the day 3. You had been tunnelvisioned on lynching me. You had used lots and lots of logical fails trying to get me lynched, that's what I'm saying.
Reasons I didn't jump into:
roffman: I explained it before. The discussion was extremely annoying, and I was really confused.
RS: I was not completely sure about jumping on him. I was more suspicious of

you

. Then, the claim confused me still more, and then the deadline killed RS.

What's most interesting is the conclusion:

hmm... I need to take a reread on iceman. I think that I will have a decision tomorrow morning.

To me, this post reads: "I don't like the way tsn is narrowing in on me, but maybe I can still get iceman lynched today." The only reason I'm not voting for you today is to give you a chance with that second seed.

BZZZZZZZZZZZT! Try again!

I never meant it. You are using really poor logic trying to get me lynched. That's the reason I'm suspicious of you, as I have said lots and lots of times. And the "I will reread iceman later" part is because I usually miss something, and given the situation, missing something (either a good scumtell or a weak reason for the wagon) means one more day of delay from the victory (if Darox is true and there is only one scum left).

[pacman281292]

Reasons I didn't jump into:
roffman: I explained it before. The discussion was extremely annoying, and I was really confused.
RS: I was not completely sure about jumping on him. I was more suspicious of you. Then, the claim confused me still more, and then the deadline killed RS.

OK, so you have reasons to give. That hardly makes it logical failure to say "scum are less likely to be on the wagons of their buddies." Also, on iceman, saying you aren't ready to make a decision yet is an excellent way for scum to test the waters before jumping either way. You're setting the groundwork to jump either way.

Does not compute, does not compute, does not compute...

What's logical fail in you? see below:

Which part of your logic is fail? Your logic during the day 3. You had been tunnelvisioned on lynching me. You had used lots and lots of logical fails trying to get me lynched, that's what I'm saying.

[pacman281292]

hmm... long post (answer to TSPN) coming tomorrow night, had not enough time to type it...[/quote]

[pacman281292]

So, in other words, my logic is fail because my logic is fail. That's circular. That's not an argument. Its not a point. Its just noise.

hmm... some of your fails, and explanation. Why is your logic wrong?
read these posts from you:

Either pacman's seeds are false, or darox is lying.

Obvious false dilemma. You forget: WHAT IF SOMEONE ELSE WROTE THAT PAPER? WHAT IF SOMEONE ELSE IS LYING?

False dilemma, guy. Had you been considering that SOMEONE MIGHT HAVE BEEN FAKECLAIMING HERE??

I was considering this. That's why I said "either the seeds are false

or

darox is lying." Fakeclaiming would be a form of lying. I suppose its possible

you're

fakeclaiming, but seeing as how it'd be a pretty abysmal fakeclaim, I doub it.
Why didn't I discuss about roff? BECAUSE I was confused. That discussion was really difuse, and I was not completely sure to jump for someone.

Also, some OMGUS.

Yosarian, I see where you're coming from on RS, but I still think pacman is the better lynch.

This is really AWFUL.
First, you keep the false dilemma of #424, you just italicize the or. It's still a false dilemma.
I hope the last part had a typo, because I never said the last quote. If I did, tell me the number of the post.

I'm still feeling like I'm missing something key here...what did darox say that contradicts pacman's role claim about the seeds? How do the two role-claims contradict each other?

Either there are scum via darox, and therefore pacman's seed is false, or there are not "scum," and darox' result of "scum" is false.

I suppose there's some wiggle room in which darox' guilty results don't necessarily correlate with traditional scum, but the key point is: pacman's first seed was almost certainly false.

You keep the false dilemma, and take fake conclusions from there. Ugh. Just awful.

hey guy, you are again with your false dilemmas...

Hey guy, I'm not creating a dilemma for anyone else. I said

I think

the scum is almost definitely one of you and iceman. And which part of my logic is fail? The part where you haven't been on either the scum wagon? That's fact. The part where your seed almost definitely was anti-town? That's not absolute fact, but it seems pretty self-evident to me.

What's most interesting is the conclusion:

hmm... I need to take a reread on iceman. I think that I will have a decision tomorrow morning.

To me, this post reads: "I don't like the way tsn is narrowing in on me, but maybe I can still get iceman lynched today." The only reason I'm not voting for you today is to give you a chance with that second seed.

I don't know if this is strawman or misinterpretation, but this is really awful.
At the first part, he explains another post from him. And it's a good explanation.
The other part is horrible. You made the worst misinterpretation from there. I never tried to make what you said; I was really screwed due to the fact that I missed both scum wagons, so I tried to find out why was iceman being lynched .I didn't have the decision I promised because I saw this and I forgot what was I going to do (:oops:).

Just some posts. I hope this answers well to your post.

hmm...

[pacman281292]

Aaaaahhhh... now I get it!
That post explains a lot of things.

hmm...
Now what must we do?

[pacman281292]

ugh, I have an extremely limited access right now. Overbusy. sorry.

[pacman281292]

He didn't get what reading comprehension was, but brought up false dilemma which I had to look up. XD

If I do understand this rightly, I can definitely .
I'm not good at english; that might explain my low reading comprehension in

english

...

ugh, what's happening here?! We must keep going, not keeping inactive!

(This might be a little of hypocrisy, given the fact that I have limited access...)

[pacman281292]

I KNEW THAT! TSPN WAS SCUM!

ouch, my fourth full game... and my fourth loss as town... I suck

[pacman281292]

[/sarcasm]clammy, thanks for the paper. You made me look very scummy [/sarcasm]
I was thinking at the end of the day on acting as scummy as possible, trying to get lynched, because it was obvious that in D5 I was the obvious lynch.
Good game Darox.