Silent Star 4: Yin and Yang

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ego.

VOTE: morning tweet

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okay, now that morning has said hi to me, i can't keep voting her.

VOTE: norwee slightly srs vote.

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How can you be slightly serious? If you’re gonna vote me then how about you become 100% serious? I don’t like it when people act all wishy washy about me.

i can be whatever i want. why are you so quick to get angry?

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VOTE: ydrasse

norwee made me laugh, i can give him a townlean for now.

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fLEA VOTE scum rn

VOTE: Tanner

that's wrong. she said vote

scum

, silly!

in all seriousness, i am interested in the thoughts behind this take.

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Yin hasn't posted yet despite being asked questions. What do people think about that?

was there a point to asking this?

slight town ping on robert, mostly because his intro gives me a vibe similar to my own. ircher feels tonally scummy but i'm not too interested in pushing that right now. if anyone who's town on ydrasse could let me know why, that would be cool.

hmm.

Yin

, how many actual criminals are there in the pit?

(the first person to say "wow, are you scum trying to townslip???" is getting slapped. alright thanks.)

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yang

, why do you hate me?

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I'm a mage and I don't need a staff. My magic comes from my irrational hatred of Tanner.

Wow this is definitely Isis

when you decide to join what you think will be a fun game of mafia with friends, only to find out isis hates your guts. </3

@Tanner - do you scumread Ydrasse?

"scumread" is a bit too strong word - but kind of? something about 55 feels off to me. like she was trying to give an appearance of solving rather than actually solving. voting norwee then unvoting immediately in the next post, without voting anyone else (even by now) feels to me like "scum attempting to show how they're totally solving, but also trying to keep the game in the fluff nonsense phase for as long as possible". (yes, i know the "keeping the game in the fluff phase" came only after my vote, but 55 gave me the feeling of pretend-solving at the time she made it.)

back at you, Chara - do you scumread me?

@ircher - 130

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ive never seen norwee so exuberant before

VOTE: norwee

was this not supposed to be a legit reason for voting him?

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yes i like to kill people for being happy you got me

i don't know your mental model of scum!norwee.

Datisi town

this feels a bit... early.

Nakata wonders if Flea the Magician is not a friend.

this was something i was thinking about. what's giving you that feeling?

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Nakata thinks that Flea The Magician seems more interested in talking about things happening in faer real life and in asking questions to the NPCs than in trying to scumhunt.

is there a reason this does not apply to ydrasse?

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"that whole thing" being my 206?

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Tanner: your early game kind of pinged, though 192 reminds me of... i want to say Chara's Folly Tanner? but it occurs to me i don't think i read the end of that game and i don't remember if you were scum.

my early game is weak (i cannot find my way around prolonged fluff posting / rvs, though that is nai as both scum! and town!me are awkward as hell there), so that's not surprising. and i was town in chara's folly.

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"that whole thing" being my 206?

das right

why is it scummy? (and why are you not voting me then?)

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1. awkward joke trying to get Ydrasse to talk about scum!norwee.
2. challenging Pooky's town read on a player because it's a bit early.
3. prompting and encouraging Satoru to talk about a scum read on Flea.

1. it was not a joke. i thought ydrasse's early vote on norwee was serious (at least as much as an early vote like that can be). when she told me she wouldn't seriously vote norwee for the reason she gave, i just told her i didn't know that.
2. what pooky said - this is a datisi alt. (though i kinda wished to not have it mentioned that fast...)
3. yeah. i was getting scumpings on flea. i wanted to talk about it with another player who said they got the same pings.

Three things meant to erode town reads and promote scum reads, because there's nothing that scum hates more than townies with under-developped scum reads on other townies, and strong town reads on townies.

If Tanner flips scum, then Norwee is town, Datisi is town, and Flea is town.

i mean, 1. is saying i didn't know how ydrasse reads norwee, and 2. is eroding a townread on myself... and even if the 3. were correct, i'm literally just talking about a ping i got. and considering i did out some townpings earlier (and one of them was on *you*, so from your pov you'd surely know it can't be scum!me being an idiot just townreading partners and scumreading all townies), this feels confbiased, if not intentionally malicious.

my early game is weak

Pre-emptive excuse for future scummy play.

...it's the exact opposite? like i'm saying "i struggle in early game when it's mostly rvs, but when the game gets serious, i'll get more townie as i'll actually have something to work with". that's not a pre-emptive excuse for my future scummy play, it's setting expectations for my future townie play.

i don't like these posts from robert. i can understand some early scumreads on myself (i'll be first to tell you i have not gotten into the game yet), but both 251 and 253 feel like throwing shit and seeing what sticks. the "future excuse for scummy play" line legitimately makes no sense. also, the "what" in 256, considering it was followed by no re-evaluation, kinda feels like scum who got caught not knowing what to do now that their point against their "scumread" was proven false, rather than a townie organically reacting to the development.

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that being said, @pooky, i do wanna talk about 198. i know i'm no don corleone, but i don't think i'm *that* bad as scum as to already be getting a townread from you. mind talking about it?

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happi scumday hectic

I like Norwe Robert and Infy

maybe i'm biased, but i'm really curious what makes you like robert here. [edit after reading: goes for amy dune too. like, what about robert's posting has been remotely good.]

Yin

, how many actual criminals are there in the pit?

By my count....... four.

so this would imply yin knows how many of us are criminals here? though can't know he's including himself (or yang) in that, and whether he would lie about it. hm.

the cumulus fact does not seem right, but i don't know enough about meteorology to confidently say it's incorrect.

from my 30-second google search, i'd say that it is incorrect. is there any point to even talking with these two?

i just realized

I don't know who the mafia are.

There's no reason to believe there are mafia in this game, yet. the only distinction Yang has made between good and evil is that goats are baddies and llamas are presumably the opposite

Although, I suppose Yang still told us that Yin is the one who will tell us how to spot the difference. And Yang being able to freely post does support uninformed. Something about the use of "mafia" is irking me though cause i dont think any Silent Star has had mafia in it.

if we're sure that yang is isis (i'm Not Good at alt hunting), then i'm sure yang would at least know the flavour name of the scumteam, considering isis was a reviewer of this game.

also, the "what" in 256, considering it was followed by no re-evaluation, kinda feels like scum who got caught not knowing what to do now that their point against their "scumread" was proven false, rather than a townie organically reacting to the development.

Who did Robert think Datisi was in the first place?

considering he thought i was trashing town!pooky's townread on town!datisi... i guess he thought a different player?

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VOTE: robert

those posts on me were just bad. i can kind of excuse 251 if i squint, considering he didn't know whose alt this is (but also not really because point 1. is still awful), but the stretch of "tanner is excusing his future play!!" and the fact he's shown zero nuance in thinking about his read on me after learning that some of his points were moot... yeah no.

flea is currently next on my list. i got excited seeing 319, thinking it's actually gonna be a game related catch-up, and instead it was just... mech filler. faer only real read so far has been "tanner gut"... not vibing.

other people that i dislike so far are ydrasse and amy dunne - for kind of similar reasons i guess? ydrasse has still not really Done anything, and Amy's posts seem to be forced posting for the sake of posting.

(i can already hear robert typing how i'm blocking townread on a lot of people - yes, i am. these people aren't being townie. they deserve to get called out.)

norwee and tweetie seem like they're not internally screaming when they're posting, so i'll call those a townlean. pooky is not giving me evil vibes for once, and i don't know what that means, but i'm running with it for now. also ircher seems like he gives absolutely zero shits so, in the absence of proper townreads, i'm calling that a townlean for now too. i think everyone else is too close to the null line to go one way or the other for me.

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maybe i'm biased, but i'm really curious what makes you like robert here. [edit after reading: goes for amy dunne too. like, what about robert's posting has been remotely good.]

@amy

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ircher seems like he gives absolutely zero shits so, in the absence of proper townreads, i'm calling that a townlean for now too.

Inactivity makes you townlean them? Why?

it's not inactivity, it's the random pop-ins, giving his thoughts, then fucking off and not sweating about the pressure on him. i will admit that i don't actually know whether that's +town for ircher, but as said - in the absence of people acting townie, i'm fine going for a weaker reason to townlean someone.

pedit: i didn't mean just from today. random pop-ins to give his thoughts (213, 258) while not caring about the wagon/pressure on him strikes me as somewhat more likely to come from town.

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I guess I'd think if Robert had a scum team they'd tell him you were Datisi ?

i'm not convinced. only about half of the playerlist (afaik) knew, any even then, i don't like making assumptions like this. possible his scumbuddies didn't wanna out me or thought it wasn't that important.

pedit: ehh, scum!me's no stranger to picking fights early -- the rest of this post was some meta nonsense, but i decided i don't actually wanna do that now, so i will instead say that your reasoning might be a bit flawed but it feels genuine enough, and i obviously need help Not Getting Killed here so i will leave it be.

ppedit: >_> i am an edgefuck on every account, how dare you.

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why is not getting killed so important?

because i'm town, and i don't want the town to waste a yeet on me.

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why is not getting killed so important?

because i'm town, and i don't want the town to waste a yeet on me.

I thought you meant not getting NK'ed.
But you was saying you didn't want to get limmed?

yeah, my "i need help not getting killed" in 341 was referencing the fact i had a grand total of *gasp* 3 votes on me at one time, and that i don't wish to eat the yeet. i will neither confirm nor deny whether i want to die by nightkill.

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yin

, are you a criminal?

i'm not sure if there's a point asking this, considering we don't know if he's telling the truth either way, but that then goes for all questions, sooo.

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Tanner how confident is your Ircher tr?

considering that i literally said i'm reaching for townreads due to a general lack of towniness in this game, and that i'm aware my reasoning could be flawed? not very.

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why is not getting killed so important?

because i'm town, and i don't want the town to waste a yeet on me.

hmmm....

is there a meaning behind this "hmmm"?

Amy is officially a townlean now.

was this caused by 389/390? if so, what gave you a townlean?

for the record, amy is giving me a townie vibe as well, but i can't put my finger on it.

i kiiinda wanna townlean ydrasse for 407? i have no idea what happened in ms rpg, but i've been getting the feeling that infinity sounds "...?" too. though i'm not exactly the best at reading infinity myself so /shrug. by the time i finished reading, the "...?" feeling on infinity has disappeared and has been replaced with "yeah ok i have no clue how to read her i will just ignore her for now and hope someone else does", but i'll keep that townlean on ydra.

i am

not

getting any townie pings on clidd this game, which i think is somewhat concerning, considering that every game with him so far (that i was town and thus had to read him), he'd give me those townie pings and he was town?

ok friends are calling me, i got to go so i will finish the rest of this a bit quicker - liking tweetie's posts bc energy but also not really worrying about her as she's one of my "will probably stop being so townie later if scum" reads, and i'm also liking chara for ??? reasons idk i'm probably playing with fire here, i've heard spicy things about its scumgame ok cool bye

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i am not getting any townie pings on clidd this game, which i think is somewhat concerning, considering that every game with him so far (that i was town and thus had to read him), he'd give me those townie pings and he was town?

actually before i go, i just remembered that is a lie, he did fool me once. but also i'm still not getting any townie pings from him this game so take it as you will.

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It would be interesting for us to discuss your read on Robert when you have time. Something tells me he's someone like ''town acting erratic/sporadic'' but not ''scum planning a push''.

it's 2am and i have a headache (an actual one, not related to this game) so i'll likely sleep soon, but i'm not sure i've got anything to say here that i've not already said. his points on me just felt really reachy. and while i know that is not necessarily scum!indicative of itself, the fact that he froze and stopped posting once he found out one of his points is moot, as opposed to started re-evaluating his push... i don't like it. it's not a slam dunk case in any way (and i'm not pretending it is), but it's the best i got so far.

i noticed you started off saying he's scumpinging you, then later on you said you don't vibe with his wagon - have you explained what changed your mind here?

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thank you! it's me being stupid and using earbuds (+ loud music) too much today. i'll survive.

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@Tanner

Initially he pinged me as scummy, but after I started theorizing about his course of action in a scum!Robert scenario, it didn't make much sense that he specifically selected you to push, mostly because of the cost-benefit.

He attracted a lot of attention to himself and ignored your town ping on him to go into a 1v1. If you were the one who went to him first, it would make more sense for scum!him to respond appropriately with a scumread, but he was the one who went after you and started the conflict, which is why I don't see a plausible *scum motivation* in his actions (and made me reconsider the initial impression on him).

i don't really see the issue with cost-benefit - at the time of his push, i was a relatively popular scumread, having a few votes on me and not having gotten into the game yet. so not like my "vague townping on robert" was worth much of anything or like he had much to lose there. besides, he's not familiar with my game, i wouldn't say it's unlikely that scum!him thought i was a relatively easy townie to push, not being aware that a shitpush on my slot is exactly what i needed to wake up.

Freeze after lighting a spark between the two of you would also be terrible for his credibility. Would scum!Robert just not care about that?

i don't think it's an issue of not caring, i think it's an issue of not *knowing* how to respond to the new information because he was hoping his push on me would be enough to show that he's solving, at least for the time being. like, look at his recent posts, does this look like a townie who's genuinely evaluating the game:

Why did Robert think Datisi was in the game and which player?
This seems like something we should really know.

I don't know any Datisi, Pooky brought something up about a Datisi and I I get this, Datisi and Tanner are the same player?

well first of all, this is a lie, you played in a game i modded, but giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you've genuinely forgotten about me - the second part still feels off. it has been confirmed multiple times, by me as well, that this is an alt of datisi. again, one of the major points about why i'm scum (shutting down townreads of other people) has been showed to be moot (as i was shutting down a townread of myself), and there's no explanation or response from him, just more playing dumb. he's obviously not bothering to even *read* my response to him.

I see people what to eliminate me on day 1 again. I take that to mean I'm right about Tanner being scum.

this also makes no sense. like, unless this is trying to say that i'm scum, and i panicked, and i told all my scumbuddies to immediately dogpile on robert... what is this even supposed to mean?

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Seriously? Clidd is probably my strongest tr so far.

good for you, was there a point in posting this? (also, please don't quote full wallposts if you're gonna respond to one line. highlight the relevant part, then quote.)

I think Robert’s probably town. Town!TSE made a very similar kind of slip in a game he was in.

for one, robert is (probably) not tse, but do you maybe want to link this?

The mechanics And purpose behind the Yin and Yang players aren’t clear enough for me to just blindly assume something like there has to be scum in me/Chara/Pooky just because of something Yin said.

+1. yin said he's a thief. until we have more info as to what the hell his role is here, i don't think we should be listening to what he's saying. besides, i highly *highly* doubt hectic + isis would make a game where townies can just ask an npc for who the scum is, and that they would give an honest answer.

also saying this right now, if robert ever flips scum this game, nakata is locktown and i'm deathtunnelling ydrasse until one of us is dead.

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i think Yin said he's a thief because the character he's being is a phantom thief.

right. i still don't think it overrides my other points, that we genuinely have no clue what his role is and whether he'd be truthful to us.

yin

, is yang a criminal?

pedit: i vaguely remember seeing town!robert act a bit more freely in the game i modded, but (1) been a while ago and (2) not like i was putting in effort into reading him there. i'll try to skim his completed games at some point to see if anything interesting pops up. maybe. idk i hate meta research.

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john tanner is a protagonist of a driving game, how dare you

ever since some people (who i shall not name) made fun of me for using such an avatar on my main. originally there was also some intent about trying out a different playstyle or something, but now this is just my "i will try to not lose my nerves every three seconds" account.

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does playing on a different account help with that?

so far, yeah. but i've never made it to endgame with this account, which is usually where my nerves really go off the rails, so remains to be seen.

ay yo ircher, wanna place an actual vote on someone?

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Because I don't really see a reason for scum!him to make the push on datisi. I still don't understand why he wanted to townread datisi when he didn't know who datisi was, but it's enough for me to townread him for now.

he wanted to townread datisi because he saw tanner say that pooky's townread on datisi is premature, not knowing the two are the same person. he claimed that's scum!tanner being afraid of townies correctly townreading each other, and trying to shut a townread like that down. hence scum!tanner > town!datisi. have you... read his case against me?

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PEdit: I feel like there's a better explanation than robert was just making stuff up.

i'm not saying he's making stuff up, i genuinely believe him when he says he had no idea tanner/datisi are the same person. (and i can kinda buy that he thought datisi was a different player in the game that i was throwing shade on). my problem is that his follow up to finding that out looks much more like scum who doesn't know how to react naturally, as opposed to townie who found out his push was not factually correct and is re-evaluating.

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I have suspisions.

do you plan actually talking about this?

ircher wagon feels like a wagon on a townie who's being weird. and distracting from a buddy who's caught with their pants down but people are giving them a pass because "???" "what if they're lhf".

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Nothing much to say beyond people who are survivalist give me the heebies.

the most survivalistic bastard you'll see in a game, nice to meet you.

pedit: didn't see anything that shows they can't both be scum. that's just what my gut is telling me right now.

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i'm not going "two competing wagons must be t/s" > "robert is the scum, ircher is the town".
i'm going "i'm scumreading robert and i'm vaguely townie on ircher" > "their wagons are competing, i think they're t/s"

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573 does make it sound like it has to do with Robert scum. which, sure, i could see it.
where do you get town for Ircher? he's been pretty null for me. maybe a little townier for the response to you asking him to vote and Ircher sitting on his Yin vote instead.

err, yeah, my current guess is that scum would want to subscribe to the easy ircher wagon. but i'm not saying it's impossible robert and ircher are both scum (or both town).

i talked about it in 328 and 336. like, he started receiving pressure, and instead of doing traditionally townie things he kept doing his own thing? i thought that was somewhat townie.

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i'd have hoped seeing so many pedits of ydrasse screaming how ircher is a bad vote would've made me think she's town, but they did not. sad.

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my read rate on you is literally 100% tf you on about

pedit: @ydra

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err, yeah, my current guess is that scum would want to subscribe to the easy ircher wagon. but i'm not saying it's impossible robert and ircher are both scum (or both town).

is Ircher easier to wagon than Robert?

if robert is scum (which is my current aumption), yes?

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err, yeah, my current guess is that scum would want to subscribe to the easy ircher wagon. but i'm not saying it's impossible robert and ircher are both scum (or both town).

is Ircher easier to wagon than Robert?

if robert is scum (which is my current

assumption*

), yes?

my laptop is dying and my s key keeps jamming every 5 seconds, don't mind me.

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i mean, i agree that Ircher has some votes, but it feels early to say he's an easier wagon when iirc Robert had the same amount or more (at least 3, by my count), and i believe i make three on Ircher.

my point is that scum want an easy wagon on a townie. and i don't think robert is a townie. therefore robert *cannot* be an easy wagon at all.

also considering how much discussion on robert there is, and many people are going "hurr durr lhf" (while ircher is picking votes up effortlessly), robert doesn't feel like an easy wagon at all.

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have you read what i've written about robert and why i'm voting him? i saw you earlier asking that there was a robert thing, and like. what do you think of my case?

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are you actually gonna fking make me go back and check that game i modded just so i could argue with you about it

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actually i don't care enough about it, hopefully he's gonna come back and make his alignment really obvious, one way or another.

why you voting chara, pooky?

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Case on robert is hes been caught in a lie about knowing mains/alts

it's not. my main points against him are the garbage push he made on me, then freezing / not knowing how to react once the information about alts came to light (second part of 545).

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A scumflip would make Tanner skyrocket in my townspew concept.

this implies you don't already read me as hella obvious town, and that makes me sad.

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i like to think i've decently improved since then too. and that's fair. i'll try to have faith in myself in eventually reading you correctly.

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pedit: i vaguely remember seeing town!robert act a bit more freely in the game i modded, but (1) been a while ago and (2) not like i was putting in effort into reading him there. i'll try to skim his completed games at some point to see if anything interesting pops up. maybe. idk i hate meta research.

That would be really helpful.

debatable. second-hand meta usually just makes me tunnel what i already think. and you'd think that would stop me from saying "i should do meta research" but it does not.

do you plan on linking that "slip" from tse?

Tanner i’m very interested in your response now.

here's a take - i see absolutely nothing town-indicative in what robert has posted in his return.

upon getting back, he started getting pissy, doing the most surface-level omgus. he repeated not once, not twice, but three times that he's mad he's being wagoned for "not knowing alt accounts". i explicitly said that i don't give a shit he didn't know who i am - my problem is that his original attack on me and his reaction upon learning about the alt both reek of scum. his original points on me were garbage, and he has showed no re-evaluation of my slot upon learning the new info. even now! he chose to completely ignore me and what i'm saying (and why i'm voting him) and instead just go omgus someone else. you'd think town!him would, i don't know, at least *address* his read on me (you know, the thing that got him into this mess in the first place) by this point?

why the hell are people reading him as town? because he got mad? like, ircher called him out, he wasn't doing jack shit other than being mad and insisting he's being wagoned for not knowing alts. that's not town-indicative behaviour. and the "it's obvious i won't make it to night so people defending me are suspicious" like, you had 3 votes as an early day wagon, who the hell are you kidding by pretending to think your yeet is already set in stone?

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who said it's a performance? i don't find it very unlikely that he really is pissed off at being wagoned. i'm saying it does not make him town.
re 798: meh. i don't find "scum!them would've played better" as a convincing reason to townread someone, unless i have prior knowledge of that player that would show me that. though i will keep your point in mind going forward.
re 799: just because it's unplanned / without obvious scum motivation, i really don't think you can conclude that it's therefore coming from town. scum doesn't plan / screws up sometimes.

why are you voting nakata right now? please tell me it's more interesting than "they're not here so pressure wagon".

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Nakata thinks that friend Tanner is likely town.

could Nakata elaborate on this?

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VOTE: infinity

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for the record - i still would prefer to yeet robert. but i see everyone is going by the "he came back and *gasp* made posts and showed emotion, obviously town!!" logic, so.

i'm back to thinking amy is on the scummier side of things. i don't know why, but some of her recent posting feels like she's not happy to be here. (before you ask why i voted infinity - because i'm not townreading her either and there was already a vote on her.)

however, while i was starting to feel better feelings about nakata, 866 feels slightly off to me, specifically the last line. like, i get the idea behind "forcing townbloccs is +scum behaviour", but, that's a *big* part for why you're voting your preferred scumread? i dunno.

tl;dr, reads probably being trash.

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i will be doing absolutely zero second-hand meta research, thanks.

how is it supposed to be "obvious" you're town here? you're not being townie.

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that amy/nakata back and forth was so unpleasant to read, what the fuck.

Tanner, what makes you think I’m unhappy to be here? I’m really excited about this game, so I really don’t understand where you’re getting that from?

your recent posts before my 868 felt kind of bland and boring. and 844 felt scummy. i'm not too certain about your being scum right now though, recent posting felt better. i'll probably shelf it back to think about it later, as i doubt you're getting run up anyway.

clidd is probably town. also 967 (now that i'm actually reading it and not sleepily skipping over it) does feel like town ydrasse. i don't think i agree with the idea that scum!infinity > scum!nakata, but i wouldn't be *terribly* surprised i was wrong there. to me it feels obvious why nakata isn't extending the same mentality from robert to infinity, and i guess i don't really find it scummy, but this is probably better left for him to answer.

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To be completely honest, you actually haven’t been very nice to me so far. I have no idea why?
I don’t see why 844 was scummy. That’s typical how I solve. I’m just trying to figure out who to vote for. If this game was based on who I absolutely would not vote for, this game would be hella easier.

apologies if i've been rude anywhere, but i don't think suspecting you to be scum or asking you why you're posting something is not being nice? we're playing mafia.

844 felt like trying to paint non-scummy things as coming from scum. like, the "if he's so certain on robert!scum, why pivot to tweetie" part felt kind of intentionally trying to make his actions more malicious then they really are.

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you quoted my wall where i said i thought clidd was scummy to say "really? he's one of my strongest townreads" without explaining why you think so, asking for my reasons, or trying to change my mind. that's a scummy post that adds nothing to the table while attempting to make it look like you're contributing something. so i asked what was the point of posting it.

your constant "oh i'm so frustrated, i don't have a strong scumread, i don't know where to vote, woe is me" are really starting to sound fake.

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saying "i don't know who to vote and i don't wanna misyeet" is one of the easiest things to fake as scum. it also adds literally nothing to the conversation. the longer you keep that act up, the more fake it gets, and i'm gonna call you out on it.

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I obviously don’t gaf about miseliming anyone when scum

ah yes. because scum would absolutely never pretend to give a fuck.

also yeah, townreading me purely because i'm pissed off is not the best way to go about it. you can try to compare how genuine the pissed-offness sounds i guess, i can't objectively tell myself.

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i get annoyed when people are insisting that they're obvtown when they're objectively not, and then they act insulted that i'm not seeing it.

i'm not feeling angry though. i think it might be the avatar subconsciously making you think so.

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i love that.

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i have just spent a grand total of 45 seconds skimming robert's iso in this game, and i am back to really wanting to kill him. okay, thanks for listening.

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re: amy/pooky - that is bordering, or maybe even straight up is, a trust tell. can we please not.

cuz theres no need for me to manipulate her when nobody really suspects me to begin with since im so townie even Datisi thinks I'm good this game ^_^

maybe slow down on that one. while i definitely think you currently fit in the "lazy town!pooky" model i have of you, i've not exactly ruled out "lazy scum!pooky whose partners aren't in danger so he's fine chilling and doing nothing" yet. i'll admit there's nothing exactly pointing there yet, but... i'm keeping it in mind.

a question to the table: has anyone else noticed that robert's activity in this game directly correlates with the amount of pressure he's under?

i manage to get his wagon up to ~3 votes, and once he's back into the gamestate like that, he's spewing ate left and right, calling the case on him bad (even though he's not even bothered to properly read and understand the case), and at least bothering to fake reads.

what happens after the wagon on him disappears? he's made 5 posts total since then. all of them are either filler (827), or they're trashing nakata (828, 859, 860, 1044). important to note, during the time he's scumreading nakata, nakata is top wagon and collectively the most popular scumread.

and there is no original thought anywhere. he literally says that everyone else "sounds town" to him. that's not a townie mindset - that's scum afraid of rocking the boat. seriously, at least open the iso that i linked in 1047. there is no life in his posts here. and despite apparently thinking i'm town now, he has still not bothered to interact with my original case on him at all.

VOTE: robert

the most recent vote count is a disappointment.

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robert > infinity > ircher >>> nakata for me. there's probably people in between ircher and nakata there.

i have visions of nakata flipping today, him flipping scum, and then me looking like an absolute moron tomorrow and having to once again effort like insane just to convince you all not to kill me, but it is what it is.

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oh, flea is at about the same level as infinity.

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oh, flea is at about the same level as infinity.

Do tell. I am here and catching up. I got about a 9 minute post so far. I'm also heavily distracted by Z Nation, I have never seen such shitty CGI and effects combined with both really good and really bad plot writing.

nothing special i guess? i've noticed you focus on mechanics of this game way too much for my liking, you generally feel absent / not really pushing the game forward, and some of your reasonings for reads feel... off. like:

- suspicious of me because i'm survivalistic (though this is the smallest offense on the list, as i have heard that before and i feel too lazy to dig through your meta to see if it's consistent).
- boiling down the robert case as "robert was caught in a lie of not knowing mains/alts" (687), when that was really not the case (and i actually had a tinfoil that you/robert are scum together, because later on he repeated the same "i'm being scumread for not knowing alts", which made me think maybe that's what you told him in the scum pt, but uh, extreme tinfoil, not seriously considering this right now).
- egging on nakata and saying that you think he could be scum because he said you might vote to hammer him (923). maybe there's something i'm missing here, but i don't see how that's supposed to be scummy, let alone a "perfect example" of why nakata is being scumread.

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uh. could you answer that question regarding me first? i've been waiting for you to express a read on me because i think that might be useful for me to read you, but you keep Not doing that.

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That was my view on the Robert case at the time, i've seen a little more, I'm not impressed. That is impressive tinfoil though, it's almost as good as mine.
Your misconstruction of my latest barrage on Nakata is interesting. changing the scope gets you nowhere but on my shitlist.

mind sharing the tinfoil?

and not sure what i've misconstructed here? if i'm misunderstanding 923, please explain it, because that's what i've got from it.

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i've not exactly ruled out "lazy scum!pooky whose partners aren't in danger so he's fine chilling and doing nothing" yet. i'll admit there's nothing exactly pointing there yet, but... i'm keeping it in mind.

I disagree about it being a trust tell as its a belief she has of my play.

also if you think its lazy pooky scum with safe partners, who are my partners?

i don't "think" that, i just acknowledge it's a (at the moment unlikely) possibility. and no fucking clue. that would mean this town is full of deepwolves, so it's not something i want to think about on day one.

will respond to other things in a second, but before i do so i wanna point out - robert's ircher vote is disgusting. to the point where i wonder if robert is a jester.

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for the record - i still would prefer to yeet robert. but i see everyone is going by the "he came back and *gasp* made posts and showed emotion, obviously town!!" logic, so.

i'm back to thinking amy is on the scummier side of things. i don't know why, but some of her recent posting feels like she's not happy to be here. (before you ask why i voted infinity - because i'm not townreading her either and there was already a vote on her.)

however, while i was starting to feel better feelings about nakata, 866 feels slightly off to me, specifically the last line. like, i get the idea behind "forcing townbloccs is +scum behaviour", but, that's a *big* part for why you're voting your preferred scumread? i dunno.

tl;dr, reads probably being trash.

See another instance of Tanner being remarkably freaking null. This has town points, and then i go and get the freaking heebies about it..

what's giving you the heebies here? like, this feels like a normal / nai post to me, i'm starting to think if we're genuinely just butting heads because of playstyle differences.

That post was using current context for me to justify m read on Nakata at the time, not the games context for nakata at the time.

The scope of that conversation was me and Nakata, in that exchange. You appear to be shifting the scope to me talking from a game wide perspective, players and duration.

That's moving from a little league soccer net to a standard competition size soccer net.

uh. i understood that 923 was you talking about your own read on nakata. and that's what i was talking about in my 1160 - it feels asinine to me that someone would consider something like "they implied i would quickhammer them" as a perfect example of why they're scumreading someone. so it also made me think you're making up your nakata scumread as you go.

however, i was

not

trying to imply that you're saying that that's the game's reasoning for scumreading him. i used the "why nakata is being scumread" passive tense in 1160 simply because you used the same "why nakata is considered to be a rival" passive tense in 923.

like, if that came off as me saying that you're saying that's the game's reasoning, then my bad. but that was very much not my intention.

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okay, response to ydra wall.

it's intentional for many reasons but the main for you is because i started off this game really annoyed at you and i thought it better to Not engage like that for everyone's benefit. that and the statement i made earlier about you not reading me correctly was based in the memory of that normal game where you were scum and townread me which like, to me was "why can't he see what he's seeing here"

first, why did you get annoyed at me? and i don't understand what the second part means. when i was scum, i wasn't townreading you. i *said* in the thread of that game that i was townreading you, because i thought that was the best path to take with you, but, uh, that was me bullshitting. i didn't have a read on you, i knew you were town. if i know someone's alignment (e.g. because they're not in the scum pt with me), my brain doesn't even parse through their posts for ai info. like, i'll

read

them, but i won't be getting anything from them. and sorry, that last quoted sentence completely lost me.

but i disagree that "everyone sounds town" is a scummy mindset bc i just played a game where... like everyone basically sounded town to me and i was floundering lol.

i think there's a difference between "everyone sounds town, what do i do" and "everyone sounds town, except conveniently these top wagons, i will not put any thought into this at all". like, it feels like the second part.

alright. i think your take on me here is like, much more nuanced than when you were scum vs me, which is also where my scumread stemmed from your read on me sounding like extremely forced paranoia. so by that, i'd say i'm leaning town. however, you also *know* that's what i hated, so if you did roll scum against me again, i imagine you'd be much more careful about your read on me.

also, what's really REALLY worrying me is that you seem to be trying to find every excuse under the sun to not vote robert. like, something just rings extremely

wrong

about you not even considering the possibility that this is scum!robert bullshitting a read on a town player that almost everyone scumreads, and instead going straight down into the "if robert is scum, then his read on nakata is tmi, therefore we should vote nakata first anyway". because, that explanation feels... counter-intuitive? to the point where it feels like a fabricated thought process meant as an excuse to not vote robert.

typing this out reminded me how earlier in the game i said that if robert flipped scum i'd deathtunnel you, and going back to check it out again, that still holds. this doesn't feel right.

so, to answer your question: my read on you is town, if we're going by the depth of your thought processes, the nuance you're showing in your read on me, etc. but uh, the actual things you're pushing are not giving me positive feelings. so i don't know, make of that what you will.

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I wonder if I did any mistakes in my evaluation of Robert, but I re-evaluated my theory internally about three times (with updated information) and got the same conclusion (town!Robert). So.. No idea what is going on with him.

is this town!clidd once again getting snowed by bad scum because he cannot comprehend that scum sometimes doesn't plan everything out perfectly and makes mistakes? could be.

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ugh, i started thinking about who could be a possible robert partners, and there's actually way too many of them... why is everyone defending him so strongly, he's so goddamn scummy lol

i need to sleep. i hate this ircher wagon it feels like a coinflip. i'm using robert's 1188 as another attempt to get him yeeted out of this game.

flea has kinda risen on my list but i'm unsure if that's just because i'm so happy that someone doesn't think i'm insane for scumreading robert.

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re 1200:

(1) yeah, sorry, that's just not the case. i've seen town!you as both a mod and a scumfuck, but neither of those involved trying to read you and those games are not useful to me here.

(2) the part where he started yelling at people defending him is probably the towniest part of his iso to me. but also, i don't think it's enough to offset my read on everything else he's done.

can i call my nakata read gut for now? like, off the top of my head, i don't really have *any* solid reasons to actually think he's town, and i'm not super confident in it anyway. if you want, i can skim through his iso tomorrow to see if i can remember what gave me the townie feelings in the first place, but that's not happening now as it's 3am and i told myself i was gonna go to bed early today and uh.

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yeah okay, i just realized that right now, i can't even remember why *you* want to kill nakata, so like. brain dead, going to sleep, see ya tomorrow.

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yin

, am i a criminal?

i'm rereading the intro text, and while it does say that we're here for major crimes, and that a "good amount" (whatever that means) are wrongfully convicted, we haven't yet had confirmation that criminals are actually the scumteam, no?

i know i have to get to things that have been asked of me, but man, am i not feeling it. i did notice that robert seems to be more active once again after receiving votes, and that his read of me is still surface-level handwave-y bullshit, but i guess that's the world we're living in.

pedit: that's fair. i don't have much to respond other than "that's my way of speaking", but i hope we'll be able to see past our playstyle clashes as the game goes on.

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Maybe scum Robert got lucky or knew that those posts would reflect as townie, still seems a tad unlikely to me but im considering.

There is also clidd's point earlier this game where Robert illogically attacks Tanner out of the gate even though Tanner had townleaned him prior.

Yeah scum makes mistakes though

reading this reminded me that at the time robert attacked me, i was the most popular collective scumread. is it weird that at this point, i am close to wondering if robert has a post restriction where he's only able to attack whoever is currently the top wagon?

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@Yin

What is the maximum number of votes a member of the scumteam has received so far?

5 votes.

If this is not bullshit it means there’s scum in Ircher/Infinity/Robert as those have all had 5 votes.

Replace Robert with Nakata. I’m dumb.

Ircher/Infinity/Nakata

this is wrong. "the maximum number of votes that a member of the scumteam has received so far is 5"

DOES NOT

imply that "there is a member of the scumteam that has received 5 votes so far". the only thing it means is that "whoever has received more than 5 votes is not scum", but, as (to my count) nobody had received 6 or more votes at that time, yin's answer is literally worthless to us.

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and again, we have no clue whose side yin is on and whether he's trying to help us, so.

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i don't mind if your scumpool is ircher/infinity/nakata for other reasons, but yin's answer to your question does not imply that there is scum in ircher/infinity/nakata, i'm just pointing that out.

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oh, tweetie covered it in 1268. i'll find something else to argue about.

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err, i skimmed it, realized it would require more than 30 seconds of thinking to figure out what you were trying to say there, then i gave up because it's based on info yin told us, and also because chara isn't getting run up today anyway.

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okay, so i ctrl+f'ed both "satoru" and "nakata" in your iso, ydrasse, and the only thing i see is that you think it's scummy that he was willing to vote robert for "he's scummy, might as well flip him now" without going in-depth to solve him, and he approached infinity with "i don't wanna vote her today, she'll be readable later on". is that right? like, if there's more to it, give me the tl;dr (i would ask you to redo the case, but i feel bad asking, idk, would still appreciate it), but like... i guess i just don't find this to be worthy of killing someone over right now?

(also, i promise that at some point today, i will reopen his iso and actually look at it. but uh. a bit later.)

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do i declare intent because this game is obviously hellbent on letting obvscum live so that we can get a claim and move the game forward, or do i not do that because i already said that i hate the ircher wagon and because robert's vote on him is utter trash? please help.

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VOTE: infinity

aaaaaaAAAAAA fuck this game holy fuck what is happening why are those wagons am i insane??? am i literally insane???? is this a prank??? am i not reading the same game as the rest of you?????????

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i have just spent a grand total of 45 seconds skimming robert's iso in this game, and i am back to really wanting to kill him. okay, thanks for listening.

What is it about that game that implies he's scum this game? Ah, it seems like he's trying harder in the beginning, I guess, with big reads posts and the like.

i dont think he's had that deep content this game but i suppose i grant more weight to Robert's wagon reaction than you do

like, the fact that he seemed to be thinking about the game there? and here it seems to be just going with the most popular scumreads, appearing when the pressure is on him then dissappearing?

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We should lim nakata

I don't know what ircher's doing but I don't see a scum motivation

by the way, this is something i've seen scum do before. when there's a townie being run up, they don't defend them, but once it seems like their wagon is basically a foregone conclusion, they appear out of the void to push someone else. so that when the wagoned townie flips, they get ~towncred~ for defending them and more easily push who they tried to push yesterday.

if we yeet ircher and he flips green, i am heavily looking at these posts.

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unable-to-self-hammer jester? is that really something hectic would put into a game?

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maybe it is. but like why

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the scumteam is only jesters, and our goal is actually to yeet townies and achieve parity with jesters don't @ me

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i want to see yin's responses before we end the day too.

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there is this one part of my brain that is like "nakata do be right tho... tweetie don't feel blindingly obviously town..." and i think i'm starting to lose it

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i'm not gonna vote her

my post wasn't even meant as "i wanna vote her"

it was meant as "this game is finally breaking me, congrats"

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you don't sound broken buddy

it's only day one

i'm just saying it's starting

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i still don't know what to ask, i'm taking suggestions.

could you take a pool we've been told contains a criminal, take two people from it, and ask if there is a criminal within the two of them? i asked if i was one, but i see that yin gave a non-answer to norwee's question, which was similar. so i'm thinking yin doesn't answer for a pool of one, but maybe he does for a pool of two. if others agree with it i guess, i don't wanna be strongarming this idk.

pedit: or that, maybe a better idea.

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hot take that may or may not make sense, i haven't checked: i think ircher is town, because i feel like there are way too many ~scummy slots going "idk i don't want ircher he's a loltownie" to the point where SOMEONE of them has to be scum tmi-ing him as town.

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I find it funny that Yin avoided some direct questions about allignment but mentions there are no criminals at all in a group of 3.

yeah, agreed. if we really wanted, we could probably organize the use of questions in such a way to figure out who is a criminal from his answers. why not outright say it? further makes me think that someone being a criminal or not doesn't have anything to do with alignment. or yin is just bullshitting us, idk.

anyway, i don't have much to add, still thinking ircher is not a good yeet, etc.

one thing that did catch my eye is that nakata did a similar turn around of "nvm ircher is actually townie" when it seemed ircher is gonna die. < that is a note in my iso for me to check tomorrow if i have the right order of events down, if we flip ircher and he flips town.

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imagine if we... flash-wagoned infinity...

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my undying love and affection

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eh? you got to a correct read of me in the last two games we played together? what's with the "i don't know how to read him" now?

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eh? you got to a correct read of me in the last two games we played together? what's with the "i don't know how to read him" now?

You aren't playing similar to the mini normal imo

I townread you for the majority of jk9++

well yeah, that's why i said "the last two games we played together".

like, in the c9++, you seemed to actually be putting thought into my alignment, as opposed to a flat "idk how to read datisi lol" here? even though you were a literal ic (and therefore didn't even have to try to look townie), i still had an idea that there was something happening backstage there.

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might as well get something in:

yin

, is there a criminal between Tanner, Ydrasse, and Ircher?

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Yin

- Are there any truly criminal between
Amy Dunne, Ydrasse and Ircher?

No there are not.

yin

, is there a criminal between Tanner, Ydrasse, and Ircher?

Yes there is.

interesting. either the answers really are random, or being a criminal isn't about alignment.

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also, here's a take: the fact that this game seems to have died down now that there's a semi-viable wagon on infinity suggests that nakata and ircher are both town and scum doesn't want to change targets of the yeet. which is also +scum for infinity. you'd think if there were scum in ircher/nakata, someone would be making sure that something else goes through, or fuck at least *they* would be voting their coungerwagon.

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interesting. either the answers really are random, or being a criminal isn't about alignment.

1
That's one of the reasons I haven't bothered asking questions, I assumed it was going to be BS.

lol i thought i was scum to you?

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because no wagon is inevitable right now?

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and the three wagons are on like 3/3/4 votes and scum could easily swing an elimination somewhere? so like unless there are multiple sxum in me/ydra/norwee, scum could probably swing the yeet omto infinity, so the fact that that is not happening is telling

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i was thinking of a somewhat similar situation in a game i played a while ago. when the deadline plurality was approaching with s/t wagons, the game was insanely active. the next day, with t/t wagons, the game was really quiet approaching deadline. i know it's not necessarily the same situation, and this is a hectic game so god knows what is actually happening, but the fact that the game seems very resigned to infinity/nakata wagons is not giving me any good feelings about their yeets.

i still think the ircher/infinity/nakata pool is wrong, is there any other reason they are grouped together?

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Amusingly, Tanner burned themselves there.

?

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i'm aware of that, my question in 1768 wasn't random. i don't get why you're calling it "burning myself" though.

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@norwee - my role is not anti-town, so it's either:

(1) being a criminal doesn't have anything to do with a person's alignment and there's another hidden metric to see if someone is a criminal or not.
(2) inspired by pooky - the "criminals" are actually the town, this game is 4 town vs 9 scum, ??? hectic game ??? (i don't think this is likely but it's a thought)
(3) the answers yin gives us are bullshit.

i thought about trying to get yin to contradict himself somewhere to see if it's (3), but since it's obviously too close to end of day, that's gonna have to wait. my personal guess is that it's (1), since i doubt hectic would introduce this whole mechanic for it to just do literally nothing?

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VOTE: Tanner

Quickest and probably best way to find out at this point.

this is a joke, right?

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flea: i understand that this is a fucky game where we cannot blindly trust information given to us by npc's
flea: tanner is solid town
also flea: *votes tanner based on information given to us by npc's*

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...do people have reads on flea?

it just dropped a decent amount.

also i feel like i should be drawing a conclusion from the fact that literally all three of the viable wagons seem to be lurking the heck out of this game at this hour, but i genuinely have no idea anymore.

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my first reaction when seeing the vote on me from flea was "oh look, scum trying to sit out the clock", but then i realized it doesn't fit with my earlier theory of infinity being scum (or like, doesn't fit with the theory of any of thr three wagons being scum) so either that trio is all town or scum!flea is playing with fire here

but then i realized all three wagonees are kinda not here and not giving a shit, which is just making me get a headache about this game because Nothing makes Sense

anyway yeah infinity wagon good

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I expect Tanner would have made a bigger deal from Yin basically scumclaiming him.

why would i have? it was always easily possible that (1) being a criminal doesn't correlate with alignment and/or (2) yin is at least sometimes lying - i don't think anyone ever believed that we could just *ask* who the scum is. all my question did was confirm to me that at least one of those is the case (assuming it's not the 4 town vs 9 scum theory). like, why should i be making a big deal out of learning that this weird shady game mechanic is indeed weird and shady?

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(1) being a criminal doesn't mean someone is scum, and/or (2) yin is at least sometimes lying.

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sorry, not sure what you're trying to ask me?

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i thought about trying to get yin to contradict himself somewhere to see if it's (3), but since it's obviously too close to end of day, that's gonna have to wait.

i mean, i said that i want to try to get yin to contradict himself to see if we can determine that he sometimes lies, but the day will be over before he posts again. not sure what you'd be expecting of me to do here.

and sure, someone can ask if being a criminal mean being scum (i know that it doesn't, but you don't have to take my word for it) - though we objectively can't know if he'd be truthful about that, and again, there is no time.

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if i may chime in on the meta, in a recent game (mini normal 2201 i think?) there was a similar deadline wagon situation, where infinity's wagon was competing with someone else's, and she was very present and even openly said she's trying to townspew to prove herself town. so i don't know if it's some kind of weird motivation loss this game, but it's definitely not the town!infinity i've seen before.

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while i still definitely think that robert is scummy as all hell, i do think (assuming infinity scumflip) that he's -aligned with infinity, unless the team is exactly robert/infinity/nakata. though multiball might be a thing i guess, so /shrug.

am i the only one that thinks that chara's vote on infinity is more bus-like than ircher's?

i probably shouldn't do preflip, it usually ends up being a disappointment.

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go on?

which part? i imagine if robert and infinity were scum together, he would've changed to nakata this morning (to make that wagon bigger) as opposed to sitting on ircher? maybe i'm wrong, i dunno.

the chara vote thing, its vote came at a time where infinity was kind of really really looking like a likely flip, while i don't think that's true of ircher's vote? and chara's iso has a few awkward defenses of infinity, but i'm not too sure about that, i'm not that good at associate readings, especially not from Actually Good scum players.

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@Tanner

Judging by vote movement alone, yes, I can see too a more likely buss from Chara than Ircher comparatively (though I think that her slot is towny).

i'm just trying to figure out what is going on. regardless of flips, this end-of-day feels weird, so i'm taking any info available.

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Spoiler:

If Satoru Nakata is town then i think they'd be an pretty easy miselim due to their weird mannerism and low charisma. Hence my paranoia with Infinity here and how quickly the Nakata wagon rose up.

i also didn't like Infinity's Nakata vote, but her follow-up on it wasn't too bad.
how is that different from Infinity herself, though? her wagon also seemed to spring up pretty fast, and i have heard from players in this game i can't remember that her day 1 isn't the best.

VOTE: infinity

i have absolutely no energy today and sorry for not writing the case i was going to but at this point i’m not as sure i want to pursue it idk if it’s cold feet but rereading satoru’s iso i’m less solid, and as for the ircher wagon that wall post ah... ircher’s clearly been paying attention and thinking abo this game even if he didn’t externalize it and i think that the things he has to say are pretty decent? it’s annoying because he’s not /doing/ anything with these reads but it fits into what he was going for this game according to what he says. maybe i’m a dumbass going oooo big word pile good word you give good word to us and it’s winning over but there’s a level of nuance there that i don’t know if scum!ircher could conjure having been so aloof otherwise which i feel still reflects a solving mindset

i also have no energy but i'm jealous because you have still made a good point here abt that one post having some good stuff in it and reflecting he has been doing his own solving even if he's being weird about it.

curious what makes you feel less solid on Nakata scum, though?

i am okay with an Ircher elim still, he and Nakata could both be scum and that could also explain the way the votes are rn, i think. that sort of analysis isn't really my wheelhouse. as long as it's not a townread i'm not especially fussed abt who ultimately goes at this point.
though Infinity is my least-preferred out of those on the table.

i'm kind of regretting not giving Robert more attention, in part because of Tanner putting in the work there, but also because i've only really examined the motivations of a few slots so far.

pedit: i don't get why, though. you haven't said what you're upset about so it's hard to do anything about it.

these posts struck me as lowkey infinity defenses, but i will fully admit i haven't bothered to read them in context and try to figure out if they make sense or not - that's homework for tomorrow. maybe.

[Tanner]

though multiball might be a thing i guess

You really are taking the "Yin is a liar" route...

considering i know that he called a townie a criminal, excuse me for taking his statements with a grain of salt?

[Tanner]

and i don't see how 1747 resembles an Infinity defense, it's me asking Ydrasse about her Nakata read.

in a post where she's admitted to not being sure on nakata anymore and voted infinity. super lowkey.

but as said, i'm nowhere near certain that those posts indicate anything more than me not liking your infinity vote and confbiasing myself. so y'know. won't be putting much thought into this yet.

[Tanner]

[i wrote the following the morning after the flip. the norwee and ircher parts are kinda moot now, but i'm posting it anyway. will look at norwee's iso when it's not 2am. also uhhh, ircher buddy you okay there?]

i cannot stop thinking about this game, so i will make some notes. if i live to see day two, i will post this in the main thread. if not, i will post this in the dead thread. the order within tiers is kinda town>scum but also kind of not, idk.

town:

- tanner. don't @ me.

most likely town unless we're living in a fucked up world:

- ydrasse. while i was thinking her posts are pretty townie on its own, i don't think scum!her decides to bus infinity in 1744 after i made two (2) shitposts asking for infinity votes. she could've made some bullshit up about nakata. or about ircher. or about literally anyone. like, i *think* ydrasse is sometimes slightly bus happy, but lmfao what the fuck would this be. nah fam.

- norwee. similar story to ydrasse, i think his general solviness and energy are decently +town on their own, i similarly don't think he busses infinity in 1745 like that. town.

- amy. this one is not as strong as ydra/norwee because i don't have like, a *general* townread on her slot, but i still think that that infinity bus was not in any way necessary, especially as she was already angling to vote either nakata or ircher. so i don't think scum!amy does it.

- ircher. now this is not really based on his play (though that one wallpost was Decent i guess), but i believe the way infinity played around him *strongly* implies that he's town. so i already called out infinity for this in 1380, but look at this sequence. in 1218, ircher is at 5 votes, and infinity is egging his wagon on, but not voting him herself. ~18 hours later, ircher is at y-1, with it seeming like there's not way he's not getting yeeted. infinity jumps out of the void to suddenly defend ircher and say that she actually wants to kill nakata (1357, 1359). this is not scum defending their partner (unless they were going for the ultimate wifom defense). this is scum weakly defending a townie they thought was a lost cause for the towncred the next day. and then on page 70 she's magically fine with an ircher wagon again? if this truly was a 9000 iq distance that infinity knew i was gonna fall for, then mad props.

probably(?) town but like, i could be wrong:

- clidd. this one kinda pains me. he's here solely based on his play/wim, and the fact that i am very aware that town!clidd gets tunnelled on unimportant things and misses sort-of-obvious scum signs. like, his defense of infinity is Not Good, and that hammer makes me slightly anxious. but as said, on play he's town, so i'm just gonna hope he's town for now.

- pooky. now i am not that solid on this one because he did want ircher and shit, but i don't think he lets partner!infinity die like that. idk, i'm invoking the chara's folly tell again. i don't think pooky sits on the sidelines like that when his partner is going down like that.

- nakata. ctrl+f'ing "nakata" in infinity's iso, i don't think those are s/s. like, infinity was kind of continuously pushing nakata, and the posts i called infinity out for in 1380 imply to me that they're not aligned. also, i don't think that nakata not wanting to vote infinity because infinity will be readable later is actually scummy, as opposed to a townie caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. *however*, i'm putting it out there immediately that i have been fooled by a distance like the one i called out in 1380, so take this with a grain of salt. also, if i wake up to see ydrasse dead, i'm heavily looking at nakata and trying to sort him asap. (i'll be doing that if i'm alive regardless, because i feel like a decent amount of the game could be different depending on if nakata is scum or town, but you feel).

the poe:

- morning tweet. man, i want tweetie to be town, i really do. i'm not yet feeling the "tweetie is obvtown" feeling. and her interactions / play around infinity are... iffy at best. and i don't like the sit on ircher.

- chara. i'm not very certain on this, and it's mostly a nullread coupled with "its infinity vote made me raise an eyebrow" and some posts around her feeling "hmm". i haven't yet put too much thought into this, since sorting chara is probably Not Easy, and i don't like using up effort if i don't know if i'm gonna see tomorrow to present that effort. and i know "this person have stronk scumgaem so null" is an extremely annoying thing to hear (i lose my shit every time innocentvillager does it to me, even though more often than not it's a joke), so in advance i'm apologizing for doing that, but. yeah.

- flea. yikes, okay, what the fuck was that vote on me lmfao. anyway, something rings scummy-wrong about fae having infinity in faer scumpool for a long period of time but never voting her? however, something also rings townie-wrong in fae being utterly disinterested in voting ircher, and on grounds fae could easily ignore if needed (yin clear). and voting me, when it was blatantly obvious it won't go through? so like, i don't know, this slot confuses me.

- robert. i know i said his interactions with infinity are kinda -partner but my god this slot looks scummy as shit. i don't think there's a single genuine thought about solving the game anywhere in his iso. and the constant lurk-if-no-pressure / post-if-pressure pattern is Not Good.

[Tanner]

did someone say kill robert? VOTE: robert

i think we should get this slot to claim as soon as possible so that we don't waste time there. i probably wouldn't be against yeeting him quickly either.

also, here's a fun snippet i just found when going through robert's is:

after 1792, after which it was possible to deduce that yin calls me a criminal, this was robert's reaction to me musing about it:

Spoiler:

interesting. either the answers really are random, or being a criminal isn't about alignment.

That's one of the reasons I haven't bothered asking questions, I assumed it was going to be BS.

interesting. either the answers really are random, or being a criminal isn't about alignment.

That's one of the reasons I haven't bothered asking questions, I assumed it was going to be BS.

lol i thought i was scum to you?

WOW you're really hell bent on finding fault with everything I say.

I assumed that the yin/yang stuff was going to be a red herring, this has nothing to do with your alignment. Regardless of your alignment, I can agree with things you say.

he was assuming it was going to be bs and wanted to ignore what yin is saying.

so you're telling me that town!robert, who yesterday said that he thought yin's spewing bullshit, apparently reads throughout the end of day 1, sees me at the front of infinity wagon (like, if anyone here has the imagination to tell me that my interactions with infinity are +partner, i'm all ears), and then at the start of day 2, votes me and calls me confirmed scum *because* of yin calling me a criminal? nah. this is not town. there is no internal thought process here.

[Tanner]

Unsure what being a criminal means exactly unless Tanner is hiding something from us, though.

i said this yesterday but i will make it clear now - my alignment in my role pm is town. my role pm says / implies absolutely nothing about me being a criminal, being a miller, or anything of the sort. so whatever is causing yin to call me a criminal, i am not aware of it.

also, i'm gonna point out that if you want to be solving the game yin is giving you, you probably shouldn't be assuming that flipped town is non-criminal and flipped scum is criminal.

@chara, i don't plan to leave my read on you as "lol idk null". but it's also effort i'm not willing to spend right now when i have an extremely strong scumread and, unless i find a literal scum-pt-level scumslip from you, i'm always going to want to flip him first.

also, i just bothered to fully open the spoiler in flea's latest post, and:

PRIORITY SORT

• Tanner

this is a joke, right? are you seriously trying to say you don't have enough to sort me with?

[Tanner]

VC on this page.

flea. what the fuck are you doing. like, genuinely. what internal train of thought did you have to go from "tanner is solid town" in the middle of day one to *that*? and when you had a scumread on robert, which you've now apparently forgotten about even though his behaviour is, uh, worse now?

[Tanner]

okay - how do you go from "tanner is solid town" in mid-d1 to voting me now, and why are you not voting robert?

[Tanner]

flea, i'm trying to read you. the progression you've had this game currently seems downright impossible to me from a town!pov, but i am willing to listen and have my mind changed. why are you giving me such meaningless short answers?

pedit: okay, you had that tinfoil about chara, not sure why you're quoting the d2 intro post, but that's not exactly what i'm asking anyway.

[Tanner]

Also, I'm going to note how Robert has decided on mechanics for his reads rather than actually scumhunting.

and the very same mechanics he called bullshit on day one.

i kind of wish you hadn't reminded us of the soft, maybe he forgot about it.

[Tanner]

he was obvious town both by play and associates with infinity and was never getting the yeet? don't have much more than that.

[Tanner]

i find it very unlikely that you think "all roads lead to tanner", when (1) chara is considered a criminal by yin too, (2) you had a tinfoil on chara specifically, (3) you had a townread on me during day one, which you didn't have on chara, (4) have you read any of the second half of day 1, seriously. no shade to chara, but if the two of us were the only people that could be voted today, i don't think anyone (other than you/robert apparently) would agree i'm a better flip there.

this feels like a desire to get specifically me out of the game rather than any genuine read. either salty scum or a condemner. which makes me wonder, why did flea say "the 3p"? i know yin claimed there's 3 factions, but the 3rd faction (if they even exist, which i'm not sold on) could be a second scumteam.

[Tanner]

Given we've no way to verify night actions, the claim request is pointless.

how do you know this?

i'd still like to know how you're aware of this, Flea.

I assume there's no PRs in this kinda game, quite simply.

if you assume there' no power roles, what do you think of the person that very blatantly softed a power role on day one?

[Tanner]

can someone give intent on robert so that he can stop ignoring things asked of him and claim? thanks.

[Tanner]

just a heads up, i'm probably gonna be around less than usual today, really not having a good mental health day. i'll still try to check in here and there to see if i'm needed. now, onto what i slightly skimmed and i'm sure is going to be a great read.

am i really needed to say that that 1-shot vig claim is bullshit? like, someone who softs like this one day one:

I'm actually more suspicious of the players defending me, because it's blatantly obvious that I won't survive into the night to use my power, and it's very safe for them to say I'm town when they know I'm town.

is obviously saying that they are planning on using their power as soon as they can. so the "my reads weren't solid enough" excuse is utter bullshit.

My reads weren't solid enough. I didn't see what the rest of you saw with Infinity.

the problem with this is:

robert entered the thread on day two calling me confirmed scum and voting for me (and based on something he shouldn't be using to call me confirmed scum, since yesterday he wasn't listening to yin, which of course he hasn't explained why he's had the change of heart, but okay). this makes no sense.

you're telling me a town 1-shot vigilante, who literally has the power to prove themself town by shooting someone, DOESN'T shoot the person that they then call confirmed scum at the start of day 2?

(also side note, the rest of this post - and some of his other ones - is not only useless appeal-to-emotion, it's also genuinely disgusting. i'm not going to be shamed for trying to play the damn game and kill people i think are scum.)

my god i'm half-convinced that the wincon of some faction this game is to flip tanner

imagine rolling scum with someone, and you read "you win when you misyeet tanner". lmfao poor scum.

[Tanner]

i think he probly does believe he is a terrible player

and i don't think that he is but it's like... weaponizing that back as something i would Use against someone in any game ever as "hehe i secretly DO think you're terrible" is like, :/

yeah, that. like i'm not even talking in alignment-indicative terms right now, that is a genuinely shitty thing to do.

i think i know what pooky is getting at with "we shouldn't be giving intent". coincidentally, i also wouldn't mind if someone quickhammered robert. funny how that works out.

if ydrasse is scum, i will shed a single tear post-game for misreading her this bad. ok let's carry on.

*opens the link that ydra posted*
*sees these posts a bit lower*:

Not gonna lie it's rough forcing myself to put out content if I'm the defacto elim and the reads won't be heard much next day phase anyway.

open question to the table: does a PR, specifically a n1 vig, ever say this line?

(i think it just might be a "no".)

man, some things never change.

[Tanner]

okay, after reading all of that, my thoughts on this game are largely similar to what they were in 1360, when people were *this* close to killing ircher, while there was scum right in front of them. "has hectic drugged my coffee, and because of that i'm reading the game differently than everyone else, because how do you get to where you are now?"

i can understand tweetie's conviction to do the mechanically OpTiMaL thing. once upon a time, i tried to do a similar thing in a micro blitz, then luca yelled at me and we yeeted scum. but my issue is that... tweetie is posting so much about giving robert another night, but she's doing effectively nothing to say who she *does* want to see die today and who she wants robert leashed on tonight. which kind of makes it seem... performative i guess? and knowing that i've read that tweetie's scumplay is often making those fancy wallposts and not really rocking the boat, i am kinda *hmm* about her now.

okay, i agree we should wait to see nakata's return to the thread, because if he genuinely lurks out, i reckon that's +++scum for him.

pedit: man, i do not have the energy right now to yell again at how robert is clearly scum. try not to misyeet anyone in the meantime, i'll get it back soon i hope.

[Tanner]

i wanted to sit down and read, and i saw some posts that say that flea is still locked on me because ~mechanic bullshit~ and that killed any and all desire for me to read this game

i'm still probably going to do it but i need a coffee first

or a shot

anything interesting happen in the last day and a half?

[Tanner]

it's complicated. it's not about you having sway or pushing me. i don't mind if someone is pushing me if either (1) i can tell where that person is coming from and they're probably town, or (2) their push is obvious bad-faith garbage and they're probably scum. this one falls into neither. it annoys me to *no end* when i'm being pushed for something so stupid, because yin decided to call me a criminal. and you're not (from what i've skimmed, disregard this if it's changed in the past 5 pages, i haven't read yet) listening to what i'm saying, your push makes absolutely no sense to me, you're not willing to re-eval, and it's frustrating. if i could just write it off as "desperate scum" then i wouldn't be upset because scum pushing me is part of the game. but i can't, because, genuinely, what would scum!you be trying to accomplish here.

like, i cannot explain how much it annoys me when i'm arguably one of the most pro-town people here (because let's be real, very good chance ircher would've died back then had i not kept screaming how infinity is obvious scum), and not only that, you yourself said that i'm solid town on day one, and now none of this matters because...? yin, who we still have no clue what side he's on or what he's trying to accomplish, called me a criminal? like do you understand how frustrating that is?

[Tanner]

i don't understand what you mean by "trying to justify flaking", but like... i have asked you multiple times to lay out your thought process for me to read, because if you are town, i want to work with you? i'm not sure how that post relates to what i've said?

[Tanner]

Tanner is boring I don't care about Tanner anymore.

okay i have read the game. i don't actually have specifics to reply to.

robert is still scum. why is nobody commenting on the fact he went from "i will use my power on night 1" and "i don't care about who yin says are criminals" on day 1 to "tanner is confirmed scum (because yin said he's a criminal)" at start of day 2 to "i didn't shoot because i didn't have solid reads" a bit later. and he still hasn't even addressed my questions about what made him change his mind about yin's claims. like. kill this with fire.

nakata is doing Nothing and that Nothing is scummy. maybe the game really is just robert/nakata.

[Tanner]

you should just read when you have your coffee

there is something Very Interesting! to me but as a whole just read and go from there

i think i missed the Very Interesting! part, could you help me out?

[Tanner]

oh, you mean the part where you finally figured out nakata is sang froid?

[Tanner]

i realized who nakata was before forest fire ended. there's a verbal tic that makes is very obvious.

[Tanner]

obvious fakeclaim was obvious. is it bad that there is this one part of me that's saying robert could be town for this? i did see him fakeclaim tracker as a vt once. though that means he's probably capable of doing it as scum as well. and why come clean *now*, as the wagons are shifting away?

pedit:

[Tanner]

Faer second guessing and evaluating and fe-evaluating pings possibly townie.

what are you referring to here?

[Tanner]

maybe i'm a bit biased, but... where?

[Tanner]

yin

, is there a criminal between Flea, Ydrasse, and Ircher?

[Tanner]

so... why is flea acting as if yin confirming fae as not a criminal is somehow clearing? also i'm not being leashed to shit.

i didn't miss anything in the flavour explaining why there was no n2, right?

@chara and @tweetie, why do you townread amy so hard? not saying i don't have a townread on her, but you seem far more confident on it than i am.

ok so. hot take? clidd is scum who's realized he's running out of misyeets, and has decided to lol-poe me on the basis of "dont undrestimate scumgaem" which like. buddy i'm not a masochist, i don't spearhead an infinity scumflip when i have at least one scummy townie i was able to hammer at any time. i feel like we need to talk, this read feels forced.

chara and tweetie are both rising in my townreads which is good but also uh i'm running out of people that can be scum so maybe that's bad? i actually did get kind of suspicious for chara starting to push flea there because idk. but then it had a "clidd is not obvtown" take which is what i was thinking at the time so then it kind of rose a bit in my reads again and my head is still a mess.

also nakata is utterly confusing and i would still not be surprised if he flipped red and kind of support that flip, after i get to chat with clidd.

[Tanner]

yin

, is there a criminal between clidd, Ydrasse, and Ircher?

[Tanner]

alright, will sheep you on it, thanks.

[Tanner]

the "you" there is both tweetie and chara - i don't want tweetie to think i completely ignored her response and decided to sheep jut chara.

[Tanner]

what's wrong with my Flea read?

upon reread of your iso... i don't know. i think i read 2758 where flea said how "you're suddenly on faer now" and i thought that was weird because suddenly starting to soft push flea when nakata seems to be next in the firing line is kind of odd. but upon opening your iso, i see you were voting for flea on day 2 as well, so... scratch that.

[Tanner]

I need to know the flip before proceeding with my assessments.

Don't worry, we'll talk about that (Tanner).

Besides this, since that's a subject I plan to discuss depending on the flip.

? you said i'm in the poe for you *right now*. why do you need to see the flip to discuss it?

[Tanner]

yin

, what is a criminal?

[Tanner]

You aren't a name that I look and think "obvtown, for sure".

1739.

[Tanner]

consider this intent, to keep the game moving.

@Tanner

And I kind of understand your anger when someone expresses doubt about your alignment, especially when you judge your own performance pro-town, but it's nothing personal.

i'm not angry. i don't even fully buy that your doubt is genuine right now.

[Tanner]

nakata has been confirmed to be a criminal, right? so either this flips red, which is cool, or it flips green and disproves the "all criminals are scum" bs. sounds like a win-win.

[Tanner]

i mean same, but i wanna give nakata an opportunity to say... something. idk.

[Tanner]

imagine if he's like. an activated ic or something. i don't know, even parting thoughts could be useful later on. but yeah, i *think* 11 hours should be fine?

[Tanner]

can we just VOTE: ircher?

ydra, please convince me that you don't do 967 as scum there. like i was gonna locktown you for it once nakata flipped but uhhhhh

[Tanner]

i just noticed that yin's eye is now red. that's a nice touch.

6 townies alive. not counting amy because we cannot vote her. so practically 5 townies alive. we need to pick 4. ugh.

VOTE: tanner

i'm inclined to think tweetie's breakdowns on d3 about robert were genuine. anyone who played with scum!tweetie know if she likes doing AtE like that as scum?

and my read on pooky is now meaningless because "he doesn't let infinity die like that" doesn't age well.

[Tanner]

clidd, mind explaining to me why i'm your first vote here? not that i'm complaining, but it feels... unexpected.

[Tanner]

Already have you on my townpool after reread during the night.

when you're able to, i'd like some elaboration on what you read that made you arrive at that conclusion.

[Tanner]

Seems like Yin is a major liar though, there doesnt seem to be a third faction.

^^. yin and yang are confirmed opposites, right? and yang is in the mason pt with amy. *and* yin's eyes changes colour. he's on the scum side, he's gonna lie to us.

pooky confscum why again?

[Tanner]

changed*

i tried looking at the wagons earlier, but i don't even know where to start. whether or not scum would get onto a scum wagon like infinity's feels like pure wifom.

pedit: that makes sense i guess. is flea's votepark on me comparable? though i doubt scum collectively went for the "sit on our asses and do nothing" strategy.

[Tanner]

also hot take: scum was informed not only of yin being evil, but also of the fact that he would blow up ircher. i thought it was weird that nakata didn't blow him up on his way off, then i thought it was even weirder when the wincons got revealed, but... eh, it's still kinda weird i guess, but at least makes a bit more sense?

[Tanner]

Also... I'm pretty sure we go away after sentencing, so I figure we should probably do the riskiest and lower activity sentences first, rather than start with you. I'd kinda rather hang on to you longer. If that makes sense

not sure if i like this idea. mostly because the longer town!me is alive into the game, the more i turn into an idiot. but also because this doesn't feel like something we should be trying to bigbrain - spare the towniest people. especially since there was a nightkill after a scum flipped, but not after a townie did, and i don't want to risk that pattern continuing.

[Tanner]

assuming scum did pick amy, what does that say about pooky's alignment

like she's been hard townreading him all game and i know she says that he wouldn't say/do the things he's done as scum to her but... imo he would entirely and beyond taking away an easy sentencing for town this feels like it benefits him more than anyone else

i totally could see scum!pooky doing that... amy was generally townread, no? maybe i'm bised because you were my strongest townread going into the night and if anything i'd expect you to be conftown'ed, but i'm probably biased by not townreading amy that strongly myself.

[Tanner]

im so conftown at this point

???

[Tanner]

So if there's a weak link, we win if we keep them out..

another thought i had - scum probably got their "weak links" out early. but also everyone here is at least a decent scum player so that doesn't help me much.

[Tanner]

the fuck is going on

[Tanner]

why is tweetie scum here rather than me or ydra?

[Tanner]

if we lose another game because town tweetie and town pooky decided to do This i am going to rip my hair out

[Tanner]

can you vote me out first so it's not my problem anymore

[Tanner]

jesus the chara's folly ptsd be hitting hard rn

[Tanner]

why is tweetie scum here rather than me or ydra?

@pooky pls

[Tanner]

i'm going to fuck off from this thread for a bit, please try to not shit it up too hard cheers

[Tanner]

>_>

how much of it is a meme and how much of it is an actual read

pedit: sigh

[Tanner]

i didn't think you were toxic, i just started having unfortunate flashbacks lol

[Tanner]

UNVOTE: tanner

partly because i want to hear from clidd first, partly because i want my own hammer.

pooky, anything you wanna talk about with me?

[Tanner]

Already have you on my townpool after reread during the night.

when you're able to, i'd like some elaboration on what you read that made you arrive at that conclusion.

@clidd, this. i'm unsure why i'm suddenly town to you, and how the wincon revelation plays into that.

[Tanner]

You're more towny than Pooky, Flea and Chara;

Your ISO, after a reread, is more towny than I remember when reading the first time;

i mean... could you at least summarize *what* in that reread gave you that impression? because this feels odd i guess?

[Tanner]

i don't mind getting speedyeeted here, i know i'm town and i know my lategame town abilities aren't the best. objectively speaking, the best thing i could do right now is get yeeted.

[Tanner]

i gotta say, not a fan of clidd being so secretive about his thought process, but it feels weird to the point i'm not sure if scum!him does that? unless there's some other hidden information we don't know yet, lol.

[Tanner]

i don't mind getting speedyeeted here, i know i'm town and i know my lategame town abilities aren't the best. objectively speaking, the best thing i could do right now is get yeeted.

dude did you sign up to play mafia?

you know you can't post after you get yeeted right?

yes, and i've played plenty of mafia this game. my wincon is currently to yeet town. i am town. progressing that wincon isn't a bad thing?

[Tanner]

eh, i usually look at capable scum players and think that they wouldn't purposefully play "badly", but what do i know.

[Tanner]

you think the rest of us are going to like not trust you after you do a deep dive?

no, i fear the rest of you trusting me and then losing the game because of it >_>

i will take a second look at the game sometime between the next 3-15 hours. but i cannot promise anything useful.

[Tanner]

I’m wary on limming Tanner.

why?

[Tanner]

why are we playing the wifom game of the npc who is literally confirmed to be scum-aligned and who it's been confirmed that he's been lying to us? like?

if something's off about me then say it, but the "yin named 3/4 scum" is an incredibly bad take.

[Tanner]

No it isn’t because because if either you or Chara flips mafia, we are obviously not going ton yeet the other, which is why I think this.

and if we're both town, then what? you yeet one, and think "well he must have named at least three", and there you go, a townie locked out. or an even better scenario (i know this is not the case, but from a townie's pov), if chara *does* flip mafia, you flip me right after because "no way he named all 4", and then you get fucked over if he did name all 4. it's literally nothing but wifom and you're falling right into it.

[Tanner]

Like I could obviously be wrong but there’s suddenly a wagon on you, when we really ought to be taking our time here.

what does the sudden wagon matter? if i'm scum, i have one partner. you think they could be influencing the wagon that much?

[Tanner]

i'm trying to explain to you that building your theories around a confirmed scum-aligned liar npc in a silent star game is a terrible idea?

[Tanner]

That's not my problem here. My problem is that you're using very faulty logic to arrive at "there must be scum within Tanner/Chara".