MT 2219: The Battle of Calculasia - Endgame

[Toogeloo]

I would like everyone to detail their relationship with math, your answers will be considered alignment-indicative.

I was in "bonehead," math in junior high, but tested well enough to take Geometry in High School, which I passed with a C, which satisfied my graduation requirements.

I passed "Contemporary Mathematics," essentially everyday math, like interest rates, percentages, conversions, in college to satisfy my math requirements for my college degree, which I think I passed with an A.

[Toogeloo]

I will be travelling over the weekend. Expect low activity from me until Monday, taking into consideration that I don't generally play Sundays to begin with.

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: Flea

Evil begets evil.

[Toogeloo]

My Role PM doesn't mention a location, but to be fair, I didn't understand half of what my PM was saying.

[Toogeloo]

I'd argue that my role pm seems to be more of a law than a thing from somewhere.

[Toogeloo]

I can't imagine sheeping T3 willingly.

I don't scum read xlos currently. DGB is aggressive enough that the push is NAI as well.

I'm actually ok leaving my vote on Flea for now too.

[Toogeloo]

I've been driving for 5 hours though, so I may not be thinking clearly right now lol.

[Toogeloo]

Edit: Vote changed to be read by VCer. Don't forget that case matters.
~Ircher

lazymodislazylol

[Toogeloo]

I do know how to make 2+2=5 though :3

My 12 year old son taught me that 2+2=Fish.

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: MURDERCAT

What's the case on MurderCat anyways?

[Toogeloo]

MC is -1? We wanna wait?

[Toogeloo]

Yeet.

[Toogeloo]

Do you have a game where you did townie things and got town read for them, T3?

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:

I'm not ready to go in on MC being town, but I was never fully vested in the wagon, and it looks like it's not really steaming along anymore.

VOTE: Flea

[Toogeloo]

Flea feels like a lazy vote to me, are we really going to vote that slot when there's more things to explore this game already?

I, for one, don't particularly care for long Day 1's. We have plenty of things to analyze from the Day, and Flea is scummy enough to warrant yeeting out. Tell me I'm wrong though.

[Toogeloo]

My vote has nothing to do with the amount of posts Flea has made, but rather the wording fae have used in those posts.

[Toogeloo]

I'll also state that Flea skates by on this kind of activity frequently, and when town still manages to showcase a few town posts every now and again, however, as scum rarely tries to effort until it's convenient.

The posts about refusing to try if fae are going to be eliminated actually feels more scum aligned with faer AtE play than their town meta.

[Toogeloo]

Either Flea is scum or they're town being pushed by scum.

This is easily the most insightful post ever made in the history of mafiascum.

[Toogeloo]

No Miller claim Day 1.
Hammering intentionally to end day at a particular time.
Openly claiming they had a role that benefited from ending the day.

Like, that seems like a recipe for being both investigated and blocked at the same time.

[Toogeloo]

I'll out myself as well as it is necessary. I am a 2-Shot Roleblocker, and I blocked nom³.

This needs to be stated because nom³

was

blocked.

I blocked them because I don't believe town is as audacious to openly claim role benefits of hammering on a prime number page.

I'm not certain what to make of the current situation, but I did scum read nom³ going into night phase.

[Toogeloo]

I mean big reason why i hammered really is because I can see how this day would have gone with this shit you're doing

, and I have a role that profits from doing this

, so shrug

[Toogeloo]

Why does town post that?

[Toogeloo]

I'm a bit distrustful of Titus' posts today. I'm disinterested in nom³ and actually feel as though they conjured up a perfect storm of unluckiness of their own posts.

I'm willing to clear both DGB and nom³ as town here.

VOTE: Titus

[Toogeloo]

Titus sheep's you and then has been putting in a lot of effort to discredit nom³. If you have a guilty, why put in effort to discredit?

[Toogeloo]

I would assume you don't trust the full claim of nom's, so what do you make of their constant softs? If you don't trust it, why do you suspect me if I was the one who roleblocked nom?

[Toogeloo]

^@DGB

[Toogeloo]

Sorry....

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: nomnomnom

[Toogeloo]

For me it's a combination of policy and too many coincidences that seals nom³.

Policy in the sense that they should have claimed Miller Day 1, and the fact that they probably wouldn't have drawn my roleblock if they hadn't made a big deal about them having an action.

Coincidence overload in the fact that they just so happen to be a Miller that was going to friendly neighbor the 1-shot cop who guilty scanned them, but got roleblocked by me. Like, I'm not a statististics guy, but this is a math based game, and I would love to hear the odds of all that happening.

[Toogeloo]

I've been skimming over the wall posts btw. You guys need to be bit more concise. My eyes tend to glaze over posts more than a paragraph long.

[Toogeloo]

This is on page 18 rolling into 19. I don't doubt for a minute now that nomnomnom has a role that benefits from being on a prime number. I think he had a problem with understanding his role and got lucky the game rolled onto page 19. nom likely thought the day ended with hammer rather than including twilight. Otherwise that post is really odd to start the defense before getting guiltied.

The issue then becomes that nom³ is now required to have the mod end the day on a favorable page. What if the mod is busy and can't end the day on a prime number page?

[Toogeloo]

@nomnomnom and Toog, Thoughts on my readslist?

Well, for starters, you have me as probable scum. How do you think I'll think of your read list?

Eliminating one of either DGB or nom³ is the most practical play today, with nom³ being the smart move.

After that is settled, the A50 stuff probably needs resolution.

[Toogeloo]

At what point did you start town-reading nom³, Titus?

[Toogeloo]

Well first of all I assumed like any reasonable person that the day ends with a hammer, at which point we enter twilight.
Ircher doesn't consider that to be end of day and enters twilight, so I got confused. Now I just understand with my role in the game we basically need to all coordinate to preserve page hammer = to day end, which means little to no twilight posting. I should have asked I guess but I thought how it worked was obvious.

Holding Twilight discussion hostage seems like something scum would want though. Plus, it really just doesn't make sense. Assuming you knew that EoD was based on mod closure, how do you effectively use your role without broadcast advertising people not to spam twilight ahead of time?

[Toogeloo]

Roles are meant for you to have a little control, but you have almost no control over yours because you are at the mercy of the mod and spammy players.

And again... The Miller being scanned by the 1 Shot Cop Night 1 is just a statistical anomaly.

[Toogeloo]

@Toog, why did you roleblock nomnomnom instead of letting him resolve?

I found it suspicious that anyone who is town would openly claim they could use a role after meeting conditions on Day 1. Town would likely fear a blocking mechanic from scum more than scum would fear one from town.

[Toogeloo]

I blocked Galron last night; they're probably pissed off about it. I'm out of roleblocks.

It was a gut shot blocking.

[Toogeloo]

Explain please.

This doesn’t add up. You were talking about A50 and Titus at end of day and choose to block Galron?

I just felt that Galron wasn't getting any attention. Everyone knows I claimed Roleblocker, so blocking someone I suspect would seem obvious.

---

I could vote either A50 or xlos based solely on their insistence of flavor claiming. I do like A50's request to kill xlos, with the "tonight I guarantee," caveat, however.

[Toogeloo]

I don’t like this because it looks like scum trying to buy one more day and then when DGB doesn’t die and we have to elim him and then he memes and “told you so?”

Fair...

VOTE: Almost50

[Toogeloo]

unless Toog is some higher tier scum player (which to be fair I don’t remember/haven’t seen their scum game).

Just saw this.

Uh... Don't look at my Mafia Aligned games in my wiki.

[Toogeloo]

I do agree that other things Toog did are scummy because of their strange night actions that they still haven't explained and what you mentioned in 1033.

I have explained both my night actions. As for DGBs 1033, well, that's not something I can explain, I guess.

[Toogeloo]

I think the only reason nomnomnom got through at any rate of speed is because I had nom doubts (wanted Toog more at the time) but we needed town to work together as a block. If I don't make that bargain, town doesn't vote together as a unit.

How egotistical.

[Toogeloo]

had a more favorable/neutral position on their alignment.

I wouldn't say that... But draw your own conclusions. It is Mafia after all.

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: xlos

Sure.

[Toogeloo]

Either a) Toog blocked him or b) Toog is scum.

Translation...

Toog is either town or scum.

[Toogeloo]

I just want to understand why I'm being scum read. Because all I see is that some people don't believe that I blocked nom, and thought I was trying to save them. Is that the gist of it? No damning evidence, no other associatives, just the refusal to believe that I blocked nom.

[Toogeloo]

Seems like a pretty steep rabbit hole.

[Toogeloo]

The issue with your setup spec is that you keep closing it has two cops, but really it just has a 1-shot cop (if true), and a role cop (which would make a role like mine almost miller-ish). A role cop scan on nom turning up a joat wouldnt really set off as many red flags as a role cop scan on me would.

So you are over analyzing set up balance, tbph.

[Toogeloo]

Not to mention role cop was even night, which might be strongest on Day 4 at best.

[Toogeloo]

Night 4 / Day 5 at best rather.

[Toogeloo]

I want a sincere heartfelt apology directed at me from DGB on Day 3 or in the dead thread if I'm yeeted today. I'm just sayin'.

[Toogeloo]

I feel as though if town had a vig, night 2 would have seen the shot fired.

So either...
A) There is no vig.
2) The vig shot T3 with the mafia.
D) The vig shot T3, and I blocked mafia, or the mafia shot T3 and I blocked the vig.

[Toogeloo]

Toog is still scum for his stated target choices.

I stand by them, especially since one flipped Mafia so far.

[Toogeloo]

Going into Night 2, I blocked Galron because of their low profile, which made them the best choice to submit a kill. Couple that with nom³'s flip, and my early Day 2 suspicions of Titus, both of whom said they town read Galron, I thought it would be a gut shot roleblock if Galron might be scum to stop a kill.

At this point in Day 2 after the past several pages the last few real days, I'd say both A50 and Titus are strong town reads based on their stances.

I am willing to put DGB third for now. Math is right that DGB absolutely would bus a partner into the ground, and there constant death tunnel on me isn't helping me read them any better, but for now I give them the benefit of the doubt.

Galron can be next. My blocking on them didn't stop a kill from happening. 50/50 they didn't make the shot as scum, or just aren't scum at all, so I'm willing to levy time here with a null town read.

Math has been doing nothing but setup analysis noise since replacing in, making a lot of logic leaps in the process. The fact that his only goal has been to eliminate one of A50, DGB, or myself isn't sitting well with me. The fact that his slot is triple replaced means nothing to me as it could be any multitude of reasons for revolving door. Null read.

My current PoE stands in Wheme, Xlos, and Jake, with the latter really only down here because I am not a fan of the troll player mentality. I'm willing to bet at least one scum in there, hope there's two.

[Toogeloo]

Gonna be real, I'm starting to feel like this setup analysis is a smokescreen to look super active without having to commit actual reads.

I don't mind the casual setup speculation, but you don't have the full picture Math. You actually stated the only reason you think I'm scum is because you personally can only develop a scum team composition that includes a Roleblocker, however every insinuation about my alignment from you seems to leans probable town.

So take a stance. Assume I'm town, and see if you can make an argument for someone else as being scum as a result.

---

Titus, what is your actual read on me? DGB is wrong, and you riding their coattails hoping to catch scum is dumb, especially since their case on me is conspiracy/paranoia.

---

Jake, you are criticizing Galron's limited engagement, but holy shit they are actually taking stances on topics, unlike you.

---

I can't defend against paranoia. I can't defend against stupid. And I'm certainly not about to defend myself in setup spec because any number of unknown variables including lies distorts the information.

But I've also blown my load, and been completely transparent with my reasons and reads up to this point. If people legit think eliminating me from the game will help the solve, well, whatever. I think people are being dumb with their reasons, but at the very least I've used all my actions.

I'm reevaluating my reads from a few pages back. I think I too hastily am giving a pass to a couple people, Math in particular for refusal to step away from setup spec and analyze play instead.

[Toogeloo]

nom was pretty well town read Day 1,

so it's a lucky move,

not a good move.

So you think I'm town?

[Toogeloo]

nom was pretty well town read Day 1,

so it's a lucky move,

not a good move.

So you think I'm town?

Except a Town!toog doesn't know nom was scum

I get that. The delivery of the bolded line seems more like a slip though. Not, "it would have been a lucky shot..." but rather, "it was a lucky shot...". The former coming from somebody who is either unsure of my alignment or trying to sell a scum read, the latter coming from a perspective of knowing I am town.

Maybe I'm overthinking it... Maybe not...

[Toogeloo]

Probably grasping at straws...

Galron, what's your xlos read?

[Toogeloo]

And this is pretty much why I'm heavily town reading A50 here. I'm not someone scum goes out of there way to forcibly white knight my slot in the face of multiple alpha personalities wanting my elimination.

Titus similarly has emphasized I'm not likely scum, but sadly she's mindlessly sheeping DGB who only suspects me because I don't play the way they want me to or think I should.

After reevaluating earlier reads, I think I'll still stick with A50 and Titus as town reads, and Galron as more than likely town.

One of DGB or Math "might" be scum, but I am hesitant to say both since DGB would probably have benefitted more from bussing slimer/Italiano before Math replaced in. Stating either of these slots is scum is of low confidence, and more of paranoia though since the former has done shit all after claiming a guilty on Day 2 and the latter has done shit all other than try and setup solve. If I had to pick one as scum, it would be DGB because scum have been provided safe flavor claims, which a 1-shot Cop can easily be, especially in light of the flipped Role Cop.

Everyone else not listed, I really don't have a strong read on, and I freely admit to following A50 on Xlos solely because of trust and PoE.

I'm not particularly getting scummy vibes from Jake, but their playstyle benefits scum more than town, and if Jake is scum, there's a strong chance that a lot of today's focus has been on all town players and they avoiding rocking the boat by continuing to just troll.

I'm assuming for the time being that A50 and Wheme are just failing at trusting each other. I would assume that if there were scum between them, there might be more attempts at manipulation within their neighborhood and not total lack of communication.

Xlos could be scum from early flavor probes, but that could also just as easily be attempting to break ice and completely innocent intentions failing in a big way.

With so many players claimed at this point, holding my flavor might be irrelevant. If anyone feels it's necessary to claim it, I'll do so.

I'm extremely tired, so heading to bed early.

[Toogeloo]

which a 1-shot Cop can easily be, especially in light of the flipped Role Cop.

EBWOP: in light of similar claims.

[Toogeloo]

Can we wait for a vig that may or may not exist?

DGB claimed 1-shot cop before T3 claimed. Role Cop is meant to try and catch liars since a player who hasn't claimed would just true claim their role. Roles like Roleblocker would be Miller-esque to a Role Cop.

If DGB is scum, and used a fake claim, then a Role Cop becomes a serious threat, which might be the main reason T3 dies last night.

DGB's only townie play from my perspective was the guilty claim on nom³, which is a gambit that DGB scum is known to do.

@A50, how confident is your push on Xlos, and what's your input in a possible DGB lim?

[Toogeloo]

You flip me me today and A50 tomorrow, town loses this game. 10%

[Toogeloo]

100%*

[Toogeloo]

Stop being a sheep/dumbie, Titus.

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DGB

Titus has gone fool stooge and I don't like it.

[Toogeloo]

Just remember...

I want a sincere heartfelt apology directed at me from DGB on Day 3 or in the dead thread if I'm yeeted today. I'm just sayin'.

...whether your scum or not. (but you are)

[Toogeloo]

Oh no, you got me. GG, well played town!

[Toogeloo]

I blocked

TWO

scum, oh yeah!

...and then got eliminated for it.

[Toogeloo]

It's all good . You're forgiven.

[Toogeloo]

I used to live in San Jose, California, until I was 20. I joined the military in '96 though, was stationed in Utah and lived there for 20 years and now I live near Washington, DC. I think the nation's capitol needs to be more centralized, like Kansas City lol. Not a fan of East Coast living.