Mini Theme 2222: Open Draft Mafia [Game Over]

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She was pretty obviously town on d1 imo, the best example of which was when she very confident explained why she can't be scum here.

Which post was that?
Idk i’ve been mostly townreading them for the effort but i don’t really like how tunneled they are.

976

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Norwee I feel like you're either making up excuses to SR mastina or are upset about the tunnel and that's strongly biasing your read. Tunneling isn't scummy

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playwise Dunnstral's iso this game is fucking abysmal

Is there something to this besides "he's not posting"?

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Also, Titus's result on math was a rolecop, so it's NAI for math

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Spoiler: not really game relevant

An ungated vig I think shouldn't shoot in a closed theme game and should only shoot once in any semi-open game (including any Normal)--if the single shot to prove themselves as being a vig (and thus, prove themselves as town by virtue of the setup being semi-open) brings the game onto evens, there may, may, may be a case for a second shot to bring the game back to odds, but otherwise, once to prove their power is all they should do.

This is something that I've never understood when I've seen people argue against shooting vigs. The risk of shooting with a vig is a) You shoot someone who was going to be NKed or b) You shoot a PR without giving them a chance to claim. If you shoot a consensus SR, then a) shouldn't really be a problem though, and the advantage of possibly gaining an elim seems massive. Even in a normal (with a limited expectations of protectives and other killing roles) and even disregarding the confirming benefit, this tradeoff seems well worth it. In the off chance that a doc protect or something like that happens, you just increased town's win % by a huge amount. You did mention shooting a vig shot when you were conftown, but in a theme. Am I underestimating the downside of not getting a claim out of someone, or what?

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I'm a bit surprised that you use what I'm as interpreting as "lifeless" as a reason to SR Dunn, because probably over 50% of town!dunn games I've seen recently I'd describe that way. I might look at your post/his previous games in more depth.

Is this a meta read to you? Because I'm quite confident that the type of play you describe is NAI for players with strong scumgames in the abstract.

PEdit: sure, but I think the advice should be "shoot a consensus scumread" rather than don't shoot. Obviously if they're claimed that'd be nice, but to me it seems like it's still well worth it if there's no consensus scumread that has claimed.

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viewtopic.php?t=84707&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Dunn is more invested in the mech here, but ime he's more invested in the mech as scum too. He does give a bit more explanation for his reads here, but it's a good example of the level of activity I've come to expect from dunn, as both alignments.

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Without knowing dwlee's alignment you can't blame bingle for the no result

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Commuter really isn't much protective power and I think I demonstrated how strong 1 investigative can be, so /shrug

I think bingle probably made a protown play

Not ruling out the possibility that he's scum and did it for towncred but

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The "caught in a lie" narrative only works if bingle could've thought there was a chance of getting away with it.

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The "caught in a lie" narrative only works if bingle could've thought there was a chance of getting away with it.

No it really doesn't. Bingle needed to look protown after the ascetic fiasco. He knows the gunsmith is coming down the deck. He didn't take the investigative because it was more important for him to be immune from investigations than to investigate.

Or he could've just...taken the investigative. So town doesn't have it. And it probably makes him look better.

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Yeah we really should get some kind of movement towards an elim. Over half the game isn't voting. It's ok to not know who to vote for, but you need to at least go through some sort of sorting process or even just ask for help on reads.

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Looks like my old tools of reading her are outdated.

What were your old tools of reading her?

For me titus always tried to make herself seem reasonable as scum, which she's not doing here.

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No

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Hmm why does scum!dunn pass a mason wouldn't that be a scumclaim?

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Taly was very towny

Titus feels like she believes her read

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Ok but you can't say that this is out of her townrange either? And it's at least an odd move for scum/something you don't see scum do very much

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I don't see it

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Ok makes sense

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Cyrus was obvious town and everyone agreed on that, and unlikely to be protected

A50 can you vote someone?

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What more do you need out of this day phase before you're confident enough to place a vote?

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Mastina is obvtown imo

Taly and Titus both felt very town to me

NDMath has had little things that I liked about his posting, like when he townread someone for using a rolecop similarly to him

You I don't know, I've liked your reads when you've given them but you're not as strong of a townread as others

Dunn I just have the mason claim

Bingle has had good thoughts and the gambit was relatively towny, but now that I'm thinking about it I shouldn't really be confident he's town

Dwlee is another light townread that I can get a quote for. Their scumread on Titus feels pretty genuine especially since no one really is listening to them

Norwee is scum I guess

PEdit: I think Cyrus was killed because he was obvtown and not likely to be protected

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Dwlee has done nothing concrete to make me think they're town but I'm getting townvibes from them, since I chose to investigate house over them. The investigation and reaction to mastina's claim feels pretty genuine too

{mastina}
{Titus}
{NDMath, dwlee, Dunn}
{bingle, a50}
{norwee}

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Maybe they were trying to frame me lol

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Wasn't the plan for someone else not to claim mason and pick the masonry?

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I don't think dunn having a doctor and you having strongman shots would affect him wanting to vote you. Town generally wants to vote for scum, not negative utility town.

I also am not convinced that scum was confident the other mason would claim, why would they?

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Yeah, I would pick the mason in that spot.

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NDMath has had little things that I liked about his posting, like when he townread someone for using a rolecop similarly to him

Do you mean when I townread Titus for rolecopping ND or when ND said he would also have jail kept me last night in response to Dunn’s claim?

Cause afaict NDs reaction to the rolecop was being offended he didn't get towncred over it.

The second one. I am very disengaged

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A50 can you tell me your reasons for voting Dunn?

Sure!

Spoiler:

READ THE BLOODY THREAD

Dude all I remember is you arguing the mason claim was NAI, not that Dunn is evil.

2000 argues that it's actually scum-indicative.

I forgot that the 2-shot doc was revealed. I was actually in a similar spot to dunn (except the disloyal checker was more powerful than a mason)

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A50 can you tell me your reasons for voting Dunn?

Sure!

Spoiler:

READ THE BLOODY THREAD

Dude all I remember is you arguing the mason claim was NAI, not that Dunn is evil.

2000 argues that it's actually scum-indicative.

I forgot that the 2-shot doc was revealed. I was actually in a similar spot to dunn (except the disloyal checker was more powerful than a mason)

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Yeah I don't agree with the logic at all but that's what it is.

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Well ok but you had the whole day phase if there was anything to really argue against

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What is there to argue against?
Someone says "scum i guess" and then apathetically vote me.

You could've argued against my townreads I guess? Idk I mostly play based on intuition so /shrug

I think it's protown to vote the biggest wagon at deadline

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I think it's protown to vote the biggest wagon at deadline

Which is precisely why Titus waited until now to do it.

I thought you were smart.

Or you weren't her first preference

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Someone hammer

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Hey 1/2 isn't that bad anyway

Dwlee I'm glad you're optimistic but nothing in this game is going to move fast

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Bingle being scum is pretty scary but if you flip town I will begin to accept it

Dwlee being scum would confuse me a bit, they're not playing with an agenda

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I think I play mafia better with people yelling at me and calling me scum for not explaining my reasoning. Now I just don't really care

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Don't worry I probably would've voted you anyway

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I was mostly ignoring Dwlee scum as an option because if mastina didn’t die that was functionally clearing for him imo

Why?

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Sorry flea :(