Mini 2254 | Subreddit uPick | Fin

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: The Bombay

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have thoughts about Mastina's whole thing and we will get to that when we have a moment, but let me take a moment to explain something.

This is a U-Pick. Cabd got to witness an experience in a game called Isekai U-Pick in which certain characters were unable to be given the love they were hoping for, which resulted in some pain.

I'm not one to play outguess the mod, but I do know that Cabd is the kind of moderator who seeks to provide all players with an enjoyable experience, doubly so in a u-pick.

So claiming that you are being given a grammar heavy post restriction that you didn't expect with your own pick feels extremely off base for me. I cannot fathom what subreddit you would have picked that this outcome would have come to you and you not expected it let alone been somewhat okay with it.

I just can't fathom it. I think this is fake and I think the amount of focus and attention Bombay is putting into it reads as scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Idk if marci goes along with such a fake post restriction tbh

idk, it feels like the kind of thing Marci could be convinced to go for, for the sake of making a big play. Marci has been pretty consistently down on themselves wrt their play, and I could easily see them attempting to do this as a method of gamesmanship.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I dunno, Bombay is well over my day 1 bar for towniness and I don't think it's a fake PR

I just cannot fathom what kind of Subreddit they could pick to get a post restriction like THAT that they wouldn't have been comfortable with in the first place, given it was their choice?

Like...

It doesn't track for me. Something doesn't add up.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean ... maybe? Not sure i see it, and not sure luke would do that to her

I'm going to say that I'm very interested in pursuing this if only because before it could even get to their response on the topic, 2 people jumped in the way of the speeding train for this one.

Not that I'm sure what kind of alignment that provides you, but it is extremely strange for me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I am happy with my role, even given the posting restriction. However, the posting restriction was not expected. Comparing it to your experience with Isekai would not be accurate.

I am not sure what you mean by "the amount of focus and attention" that we are putting into it.

Do you really think that we would ignore the restriction? I play to win my games regardless of my alignment, and that includes trying my best to adhere to this restriction.

Right but you actively complained that the post restriction is difficult on you because and I quote, grammar is not your strong suit.

I literally cannot fathom a world in which.. this doesn't track to me, for you to get this and the chosen subreddit...

It doesn't track, and your interaction with the post restriction is suspect tbh

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean you said something interesting (that i also think is kinda silly), so i responded, yes

Not sure what's strange abt that, but noting the vague shade

Not really shade, more a general observation that you and JJH both stepped into a line of questioning, resulting in a lessening of pressure.

I've made the same observation every time this has happened before, I think you may have even seen me make this observation before.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean ... maybe? Not sure i see it, and not sure luke would do that to her

I'm going to say that I'm very interested in pursuing this if only because before it could even get to their response on the topic, 2 people jumped in the way of the speeding train for this one.

Not that I'm sure what kind of alignment that provides you, but it is extremely strange for me.

Ok, sure
What are the interesting implications of 2 people jumping in the way of the speeding train, and why is strange?

Because the kind of speeding train I am has killed people for less and it's strange to me that multiple people chose this path instead of seeing where it lead before stepping in if they felt that way.

Like for me, I feel like there is an increased opportunity that scum want to halt that before it gets rolling, whether Bombay are town or scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

vote:dwlee

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Dwlee's iso is awful and contains multiple red flags wrt their alignment.

Including, asking for flavour claim, voting rogue and general faffing about over content.

They feel like they are building relationships instead of reads, and their reads list above is nonsensical.

Like this is the mastina tell, tbh.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I asked for flavor claim because there were people clamoring that the post restriction made no sense. It also doesn't contain any role info so not sure why you'd suspect I want that as scum.

My reads list isn't a reads list, it's a PoE but okay

And yea I started the game memeing a bit because I had just woke up from an hour and a half long nap

For those reading along, Dwlee instavotes me after I vote them and then offers this rebuttal to my reads.

They say that there is no value to be obtained in asking for a flavour claim, but that isn't true. This is a UPick gane, roles will match flavour in some manner and even if you think that is speculation, Bombay confirmed as much that it did before the claim. So it isnt speculation.

Claiming a PoE list isn't a reads list is a straight up deflection. It literally is a reads list. I can confidently say that if we killed those 6 people, I don't feel confident we win the game. That is a problem for your alignment. Saying it isn't a reads list is just disingenuous.

Giving a weak reason for why you are faffing about is ridiculous. Not only is your RL not confirmable it is also irrelevant. You are choosing to make posts that contain little more purpose than to connection build over posts that solve the game.

And it is the fact that you are essentially not solving and then generated a name of 6 people that is the problem. The act itself wouldn't be bad if the reads were good but they aren't. And without a cognitive consistency to follow to how you got to those reads, my read on you is that you threw that list of names together prepared to generate post facto reasoning for any of them upon request.

Between the OMGUS vote and the wholistic approach you are taking to the game, you read heavily like scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

contains multiple red flags wrt their alignment.

Also can I point out how completely bullshit this is

My first like... Ten posts. NAI. I played chess with RVS'd, played chess with t3, and then talked about the bread I was eating at 3am. I don't believe you believe this at all

I will note you chose to cut out the rest of my post while quoting here which did infact list the red flags. You even specifically responded to the 3 red flags I raised in the post I quoted above.

How can you say I didn't point them out?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I will also note that Dwlee went 0 to 100 all of a sudden from this extremely mild pressure and that is not a good look for them either.

I feel like they would be more confident people would find them as town if they were town, and that this is a lot of showmanship to create a debate between them and I that people might write off.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ok ... so shade? The implication of that post is that you think its somewhat scum-indicicative that me and jjh piped in (possibly with bombay)

Also why would scum want to step in front of the speeding train, especially in the town-bombay universe

Also i kinda hate 134

Also bombay/lld are not scum together

Also why would scum want to step in front of the speeding train, especially in the town-bombay universe

Also, followup, do you think *scum-me* chooses to step in front of this speeding train?

@lld when you have a chance can i get a response to these posts plz?

I mean the response is you are town and I chose to drop the conversation because it is now basically a JJH read and I am slightly biased towards that person.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have explained in about 4 detailed posts why I think you are scum Dwlee.

Your choosing to respond to my posts with incredulity is your choice to not engage with my argument, not my lack of good reasoning.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

the reads were good but they aren't

You only know if they're good or not if you're scum ^-^

This is such cheeky scumfuckery.

I am allowed to look at a reads list and decide your reads are bad without being scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD your argument was literally that me posting past 10pm random shit with t3 is alignment indicative, that's bullshit and you should know it

That is not my argument. I will note another attempt to reduce my argument to a manner for you to ridicule here.

I hope when people read this interaction they see this disparity between my words and your interpretations.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I can't read, I don't care, and I'm not going to sit here analyzing bullshit on my phone

Then don't qnd do it when you have a computer then.

I already said it was strange how you went 0 to 10 as if you felt this rapid concern.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yea and if you were town maybe you'd consider how you did this exact thing to me in that TSQ game but instead you're just going to barrel ahead

Oh and you townread me when I actually was scum

Good accuracy rate to be so confident here

And now we have ad hominem of my play.

Just because I was wrong once does not make me always wrong.

Also, I want to note Dwlee cannot seem to get their story straight. Am I scum or am I wrong town Dwlee? This post appears to see me as both.

Or at least argue I am one and then talk as if I am the other.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But seriously Skitter

You are town and I dropped it is my answer. If you want a bettee answer with more detail I guess I can provide vut it isn't going to be much more insightful than that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

When did you start townreading me @lld?

(Ftr i've not read the lld/dwlee stuff, and probably wont until this evening)

After you asked me to consider why you would jump in front of the train as scum

And then I considered our most recent game interaction

And understood what you were pointing at.

Then considered the difference between there nd here and decided you were town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like you could be mindgaming me and have chosen a path of growth from that game that is getting under my guard but I don't feel that way right now

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean you said something interesting (that i also think is kinda silly), so i responded, yes

Not sure what's strange abt that, but noting the vague shade

Not really shade, more a general observation that you and JJH both stepped into a line of questioning, resulting in a lessening of pressure.

I've made the same observation every time this has happened before, I think you may have even seen me make this observation before.

Ok so i just want to discuss why i hate this post:
- 126 was absolutely shade, as basically acceded in 139, as the implication was 'people getting in the way of lld's inquiry of bombay' are scummy
- so i really dislike the first paragraph, because its trying to walk back the shade and reframe as a 'general observation' that doesnt necessarily have scum implications after i called that out
- the second paragraph i find oddly conciliatory and defensive, which i find curious because her reason to townread me comes from a later post i made (142, 148)

VOTE: lld

Not conciliatory, evidence. The purpose of the line was to force you to accept that this has been my position on this topic regardless of my alignment for years to remove that aspect from the conversation.

I don't quite understand what you are trying to say here Tbh. It isn't shade because it is me trying to read you directly. I am applying pressure directly and then reading from that. The goal of the exercise was to get a read on you and I did.

I'm not really sure what is shady about that. There is nothing underhanded about it at all?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like I really don't get the assertion you are trying to make, skitter.

Do you think I am calling it scummy to provide some later discreditation of your play? Am I trying to slip something into zeitgeist that is critical of you?

Like I am being pretty direct in that manner and pretty transparent about my reads and thoughts here, at least that is what I am attempting to do.

So your comments don't make a lot of sense to me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like can you define shade for me in this context actually?

Or if you prefer I can define how I interpreted it first for you. Because this didn't feel like a case of interpretation and more a case of... Well being frank it just felt obviously not shady?

Like I really don't get it

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Not conciliatory, evidence. The purpose of the line was to force you to accept that this has been my position on this topic regardless of my alignment for years to remove that aspect from the conversation.

I don't quite understand what you are trying to say here Tbh. It isn't shade because it is me trying to read you directly. I am applying pressure directly and then reading from that. The goal of the exercise was to get a read on you and I did.

I'm not really sure what is shady about that. There is nothing underhanded about it at all?

Like can you define shade for me in this context actually?

Or if you prefer I can define how I interpreted it first for you. Because this didn't feel like a case of interpretation and more a case of... Well being frank it just felt obviously not shady?

Like I really don't get it

- wrt conciliatory: fair enough, i think i read it in a different manner than you intended
- wrt the shade: 126 felt vaguely threatening-y in that you were suggesting a scumread on people who you felt were interfering with the bombay push. given that you'd said one of the more interesting/game-related things in the game thus far, it seems a little ??? to me that you'd find it scum-indicative for people to comment there (as i think that's a natural thing for people to do), and it felt like a 'back off and don't interfere or i will scumread you' post, which didn't seem to match the context imo

It was that Bombay had not even commented yet themselves before you stepped in, if that wasn't clear I apologize.

It's not "never comment on this" it's "why are you commenting on this before I even see how Bombay reacts to the pressure?" which is why I indicated it was scum indicative (it has often been) to have that happen. The point of the message was to say I have my eyes on you for doing that specific thing, and see how you (and JJH) responded to it. It's less like... "you're not allowed to comment, so be quiet!" and more "okay, so you chose to comment before Bombay, giving them an easy out to lean on you (and JJH) making the pressure on that slot useless. Let's use the momentum and redirect to still try and learn something.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It was that Bombay had not even commented yet themselves before you stepped in, if that wasn't clear I apologize.

It's not "never comment on this" it's "why are you commenting on this before I even see how Bombay reacts to the pressure?" which is why I indicated it was scum indicative (it has often been) to have that happen. The point of the message was to say I have my eyes on you for doing that specific thing, and see how you (and JJH) responded to it. It's less like... "you're not allowed to comment, so be quiet!" and more "okay, so you chose to comment before Bombay, giving them an easy out to lean on you (and JJH) making the pressure on that slot useless. Let's use the momentum and redirect to still try and learn something.

ok, fair enough, and i appreciate you takign the time to explain
that was the vibe i got tho and that's why it felt like shade - a vague general 'your actions are scum indicative' when i'm not sure 'commenting on the bombay push before they responded' really is

~
irregardless of that i also don't really like either of your bombay or dwlee pushes so i'm fairly content with my vote for rn

pedit ah makes sense

I'd love to hear why you think the Dwlee push is bad.

The Bombay push was an RVS get info push, I'm not really set on it. You may have seen me do similar in Mtn Dew Mafia before I outed as IC wrt Dunn.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I want to note that as of yet Dwlee's votes and reads have been either

Unexplained

Or

Direct response votes to people suspecting them.

Dwlee posted a 6 person PoE and I've yet to see justification for it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I want to note that as of yet Dwlee's votes and reads have been either

Unexplained

Or

Direct response votes to people suspecting them.

Dwlee posted a 6 person PoE and I've yet to see justification for it.

This will be almost always the case in most games I play. I don't explain my reads unless necessary

It will be necessary this game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Dwlee are you being purposefully obtuse or Did you forget that Skitter asked you directly about how you formed that PoE?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Your answer does nothing to indicate your thought process on how you arrived to your end result.

You are saying x+y=6 but not showing either value.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Or the work involved to find X or Y

Which if you wetr townie or your results more obviously a town thought process you would be fine.

But your PoE is bad and so your lack of process makes you look scummy.

So I guess I am saying show your work or die?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think if you give Dwlee a question with a big scope, like "explain all of your reads at once", they're not gonna answer it in the way you want

Well, to narrow the scope:

They say they crossed people off as town until they reached 6 names as a PoE.

I want to see what posts made them cross the other 6 off as town for and with what reasonings they came to those conclusions.

That is what I want. For each crossed off person.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's not that hard to do? Considering they said they did it to arrive here.

So I just want them to replicate the process for me to see and judge.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Wait I’m dumb I thought you meant your post. Dwlee’s post just reads like someone who wants them to just back off but I don’t think LLD would back off if they are town considering past games.

Yeah never gonna have that happen. Only reason I back off anything is I townread the push or if I find something scummier

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Wait I’m dumb I thought you meant your post. Dwlee’s post just reads like someone who wants them to just back off but I don’t think LLD would back off if they are town considering past games.

Yeah never gonna have that happen. Only reason I back off anything is I townread the push or if I find something scummier

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, when I’m reading this post I hear “Back off this push and I’ll back off”

Oh I wanted to respond to this.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. LLD and I have done this and I feel like it completely derails everything and just isn't healthy. I'm glad she is giving me more space to do things other than respond to her cause I need(ed) that

To be clear I am giving you rope to hang yourself with, and enough space for others to read the interaction.

I have not seen anything that has made me not want to kill you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, when I’m reading this post I hear “Back off this push and I’ll back off”

Oh I wanted to respond to this.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. LLD and I have done this and I feel like it completely derails everything and just isn't healthy. I'm glad she is giving me more space to do things other than respond to her cause I need(ed) that

To be clear I am giving you rope to hang yourself with, and enough space for others to read the interaction.

I have not seen anything that has made me not want to kill you.

I will say that this is slightly town indicative as well from LLD because tbh I'd expect her to know that I'm gonna flail and be scummier if she just like, posts accusations at me in relation to my more recent posts, than if I'm left to my own devices to solve here and can explain my thoughts.

I mean if I am wrong and need to re veal I would rather have the info.

And if I am right i would love to see what you do.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Make me want to lol.

You have done nothing to convince me you are town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

do we need to win the game before there's a checkmate cause

that's not happening at this pace lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think at minimum we need to end day before the game ends.

Which is still a lot of time so, we good, but still

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The pace is slowing so I want people to consolidate.

Pick a counter wagon to Dwlee and have people choose.

Also I have a giant post for when I am home about Dwlee's JK thing but the summary is there are a LOT of reasons scum may do that and even more they might point it out now so.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Is this Dwlee complaining that instead of focusing on other people and diluting the thread, I'm still pushing them?

Is this the same Dwlee who asked and thanked me for the space I gave them, then turned around and said I'm lurking and only using them to be active?

The same Dwlee who said they would flail and look worse if put into the position of me shoving them harder, and have as of yet completely failed to show anything of value?

That Dwlee?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Let's be clear here, I want Dwlee dead and I'm not interested in shoving other people when Dwlee continues to be the scummiest person in thread for me.

I gave Dwlee plenty of space to interact with others, but their reads are lacking.

I gave Dwlee plenty of space to prove themselves as town, and I see nothing.

And now finally, when I've refused to lift my foot off Dwlee's throat, after Dwlee CALLED ME TOWN for giving them the space and not pressing on their throat harder.

Now Dwlee is making a case that I'm only talking about them, as if that is somehow scummy.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm pretty well locked in today. Dwlee needs to die today. Their pushes are ineffectual and they were given space and time to create them.

Their reads are bad and fabricated, and they were never put in a position where their reads had to be forced.

Their flip flopping on me is opportunistic and appears more motivated by what will keep them alive than what is actually scummy.

This is scum, please vote Dwlee and let's move this game along. Or if you won't vote Dwlee, explain to me why and tell me who you are counterwagonning instead.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like I would like to progress to the part of this game where we put Dwlee at L-1, ask for a claim, hum and haw about whether we think that Cabd gives fake claims in this game, judge Dwlee's claim against the JK statement they made earlier.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have evaluated your content, and your new content doesn't impress me or change my mind.

the only reason I would case you would be to convince others. I don't believe I need to currently convince others, they already saw what I was pointing at before.

Like, your logic makes no sense. I'm convinced you're scum and you've failed to show me you're town, so why do I need to "evaluate" for you to see? I don't.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You have this expectation of behaviour from me that is both unrealistic and not going to happen. I see no reason to go point for point with you. I've read your posts, I've decided you were scum, I sold my case and then gave you space to prove me wrong.

You didn't prove me wrong, nothing you've done has impressed me, so I'm calling for your death.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hope you're scum cause otherwise you're just prone to shitty pushes on me and can't even be arsed to think how maybe JUST MAYBE you could be wrong on me after you did this same fucking thing to me in the TSQ game. Remember how SURE you were that I was scum there? Yea so do I. So at least engage with the thought of me being town if you're not just trying to push a mislim through

Honestly you're being a miserable person to play with right now. I'm pretty sure you're scum, but even if I'm wrong, oh well. It's as much your fault as it is mine. Mistakes happen.

I'm kind of done interacting with you if you're going to be like this.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hope you're scum cause otherwise you're just prone to shitty pushes on me and can't even be arsed to think how maybe JUST MAYBE you could be wrong on me after you did this same fucking thing to me in the TSQ game. Remember how SURE you were that I was scum there? Yea so do I. So at least engage with the thought of me being town if you're not just trying to push a mislim through

Honestly you're being a miserable person to play with right now. I'm pretty sure you're scum, but even if I'm wrong, oh well. It's as much your fault as it is mine. Mistakes happen.

I'm kind of done interacting with you if you're going to be like this.

Tou fucking che

So what, your argument is that I'm treating you pooly by... scumreading you?

And that that is the same as your poor treatment of me here?

Are you seriously arguing that?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The fact that you don't think I've reconsidered is the most arrogant nonsense I've seen in a long time.

I have, infact, reconsidered, but you don't seem to think that I have. I wonder why that is.

Could it be that I've decided I still think you're scum? Are you so arrogant that you think if I had ACTUALLY reconsidered, I would see you as obviously town?

I think you're scum. Get over yourself. Maybe try convincing one of the other 6 people who think you're scum that you're town instead of being miserable at me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm arguing you're pissing me off. Not much of an argument more of just a fact

I want to reiterate that I have been nothing but cordial and permissive with you in this game.

I gave you space to breathe that I didn't need to give you.
I created a situation in which you had very little pressure with which to hunt scum.
I didn't browbeat you into the ground.

You wanted me to treat you differently, so I did.

I still scumread you.

At this point, after all the kindness I've done, the only thing I can take from this is that you don't like it when people scumread you.

Too fucking bad, that's part of the game. If you don't like that people might read your behaviour as scum, either change your behaviour or kindly find another game to play that won't piss you off.

Cause making this game unbearable to be in is not a valid fucking choice.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Okay so where is any of that thought process. I'm supposed to believe you don't think I've done anything townie? YOU SAID I'VE DONE NOTHING TOWNIE

I'm taking a break

Bye

Why am I obligated to show you this? Why? Why do I have to show you that I didn't find you townie?

You recognize that this is entitled behaviour, yes?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Me treating you poorly is apparently daring to question your motives for hard tunneling me despite DOING IT BEFORE AND BEING DEAD WRONG

Only you would call this hard tunneling, and only because you feel entitled to a townread.

I, once again, by your own admission, gave you fuck tons of space and all the time in the world to make me think you're town.

I don't think you're town.

I can be wrong before, I'm allowed to be wrong again.

I don't think I am, but that's not the point really.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

prod dodge sorry feelling sick

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and also looked at Skitters reads to see why she was the night kill

Basically, we thought that all three of Skitter, Rouge, and us were pretty widely town read, and where we predicted the night kill to land. Then Skitter was killed, and we were roleblocked. So Marci went back and looked at skitters reads compared to ours to see why they might chose to do it that way versus killing us and roleblocking Skitter.

Comparing our reads, these are the the main places that we diverged.

We were leaning town on LLD (well, I was at least), and Skitter was scum reading her, and even ended the day voting her.

We were town reading Mastina, and Skitter was scum reading her.

We were leaning scum on JJH, and Skitter was town reading him.

Marci's conclusion was that one of [LLD / Mastina] is likely to be scum, and that JJH is more likely town.

Then looking at the two of LLD and Mastina, she thinks that Mastina looks like tunneled town.

I agree with her assessment of Mastina. And I see her point about Skitters reads. So my own read of LLD has dropped from lean town to on the fence.

Luke Luke Luke

Are you scum, bud? Was this the plan, to use Skitter's misread of me to weaken confidence in me and claim thread control?

Because this thread is a mess. A complete mess of chaos and scum influence, and I'm honestly kind of curious how you decided that this train of logic was remotely reasonable.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Now personally I am of the opinion that this is Pooky doing the cheeky humour thing that gets them off of the hook easily and we are obligated to kill them after that hammer.

I feel like Pooky Ydra arr greater than rand scum here and my town reads are pretty large as a list goes and so I feel like that needs to be where we go today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, any box related mechanical stuff?

Had one, it went away at the end of the night.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Luke Luke Luke

Are you scum, bud? Was this the plan, to use Skitter's misread of me to weaken confidence in me and claim thread control?

Because this thread is a mess. A complete mess of chaos and scum influence, and I'm honestly kind of curious how you decided that this train of logic was remotely reasonable.

The tone of this feels so wildly different then any other time you have called me scum, and you have called me scum in every single game we have played in together.

That also looks like a dumb plan.

Lld, what are your thoughts regarding the chess game and T3?

No idea and T3 probably town.

Also, it's because I'm fucking with you and I know something you don't.

Kind of a Dunnstral Mtn Dew moment~

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Fuck it, let's see what this does.

My role allowed a neighborhood to form with two other players last night that persists into today. By foregoing posting there until night ended, I was able to get a parity cop result on the other two players. LLD and Shiro share an alignment.

They were informed when the neighborhood formed that someone could be reading along. That someone was me. Based on the interactions and information shared over night phase and so far this day phase, they're very likely both town rather than both scum. I can elaborate later, but I think I'd like to let the thread marinate in this situation first.

Tadah~

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Build your own masonry, what a power.

Parity cops are so busted, lol.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That makes things extremely simple

However, would have been better if you shared that in your PT and kept it quiet with the intention of maximising the lifespan of a conftown lld

We actually did that to begin. The 3 of us have been talking about the game state for a few days now.

But I felt the thread was starting to go into chaos, and I told Ivan we needed to claim and retake control.

I think the scumteam right now is Suripoko/Mastina/Bombay.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Besides I suspect you've got me for 2 days at least. Scum have gotta kill Ivan to prevent more parity cop results so.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We also weighed claiming masons to hide the role, but we figured some players might have some "LLD claims masons" trauma involved and so we figured the real claim was required, if any claim was done.

And personally, as much as letting Ivan get results makes me happy, thread control wins games for town, not just results. So.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Well, I guess you're saying bombay is scum now

Aye.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm gonna refrain from pointing out the obvious thing in case it's not as obvious as I think but you should know that I think it is obvious

I've got no idea what you're referring to.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Marci!

I'm confirmed town. You're gonna need to look elsewhere.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

At this point, your only play would be to say that Ivan Shiro and I are all 3 of us scum together, and then you need to question why for the love of everything we'd bother claiming like this to begin with.

I'm confirmed town and you're in trouble, so you should probably start hunting for other scum and showing me how blessedly townie you are if you'd like to live.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Assume parity cop is town
Assume we have 3 scum
1 town dead due to mislim
odds of picking 2 scum are (3/11)*(2/10) if you pick randomly, which comes out at 5.5% of the time time

Operating purely on chance, "same alignment" from a parity cop in these conditions will be both town 94.5% of the time, increasing if there are fewer scum in the game

The point is there's more info in the QT that increases it from a chance to confirmed.

For me, it's possible Shiro and Ivan set up a gambit for me but again, some of us will be shot dead by time that will matter for me. It's simple, really.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD- is the parity cop confirmed in the hood?

No, but the hood was called "SHIRO AND LLD ARE FRIENDS" and we were informed that someone might be joining us and watching.

Some events occurred, then, he came in with the claim.

I don't think it's fake. There's no reason to conf. town me as a parity cop in that way.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I will say this is massively +scum for suripoko because the floor just rose dramatically

That's what I was saying about having too many town reads and Suri not being in them.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Now personally I am of the opinion that this is Pooky doing the cheeky humour thing that gets them off of the hook easily and we are obligated to kill them after that hammer.

I feel like Pooky Ydra arr greater than rand scum here and my town reads are pretty large as a list goes

and so I feel like that needs to be where we go today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Sorry I didn't word that properly but that's what I meant.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Today was gonna be an easy day for ye where you get to semi push me and see not much of it.

And now

now you gotta find a new target and show your work publicly or possibly die

That's gotta suck, b'ys.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is my concern too, frankly.

I don't think this all makes sense balancewise?

Why are you playing outguess the mod in a U-Pick with a high power ceiling and not seeing all the roles?

This is a ridiculous thing to try and ascertain, and killing Ivan today is foolish.

But if you want to mass claim to get a look at things, we can. At minimum,

Bombay needs to claim

after that post.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm not worried about being blocked given the way my role works.

It looks like he is saying that he is not even just 1-shot.

So a parity cop that can keep firing, and a un-roleblockable cop that can keep firing, and us.

It don't think it makes any sense balance-wise.

Vote: Bombay

Also, this reads like a bit of TMI.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

My role allowed a neighborhood to form with two other players last night that persists into today.

By foregoing posting there until night ended, I was able to get a parity cop result on the other two players.

LLD and Shiro share an alignment.

VOTE: That Idiot Ivan

Here's scum number 2.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is my concern too, frankly.

I don't think this all makes sense balancewise?

Here's the thing.

I think you're town, and town need to find each other here.

I want you to consider whether you think I'm town.

If you do, right now I'm calling Ivan and shiro my masons. If I'm town, you should believe me here based on info you weren't told, and follow that path.

If you don't, then you should question who you are voting for and how if any of us can be scum?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's Bombay/Suripoko/??? IMO. I'm a confirmed townie no matter how you look at it this point, you should let me shoot my shot.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You realize I’m on Suripoko, right?

My issue here is I a) don’t think this many investigatives makes sense with other stuff on the board, b) of the two, I think Bombay looks more Town (I feel like marci would be much more timid here? It could be the lukewarm effect but I think it’s too drastic a change too quick, c) I’ve literally just come out of two fucking games where a neighborhood managed to pocket people so I’m a little apprehensive about it all? Especially when given your phrasing it sounds like a PT spy? Why isn’t this just fucking tenet Cabd again?

Like, am I being dumb? I feel like it’s a well documented fact that despite my love of neighborhoods I also know you can’t trust them worth a damn. It’s not even that I’m questioning shiro, I just don’t get why this role isn’t “Cabd/ceph chooses who goes in the purple room part 2 electric boogaloo”

Who are you again?

If you know enough about Tenet you should know I was scum in that game WITH Cabd and I'm not easily tricked by PT stuff. There's a chance but it's miniscule and makes no sense. Why confirm town me?

I'll do Suripoko before Bombay if you need me to but in my mind I wanna kill the scum who is gonna be harder to get rid of later.

Which... now I'm writign this, even with images only might be suripoko lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have a question for both LLD and Shiro. When did Ivan claim in the PT? Was it at the beginning of the day?

Correct. Immediately after night resolution.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

A bombay counter claim when it's clear I want to kill them and I just did an unveil is not so much gutsy as a reasonable play if faking.

Ivan, on the other hand, very strange for a fake claim.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Actually, Shiro can you confirm that you were in a neighborhood with LLD and Ivan? Kind of want an answer since I'm rethinking and found this to be potentially a bad paranoia.

You think Ivan and I would walk into this thread and Lie about Shiro being in the thread because we're... what, suicidal?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm very on the fence about these claims at this point. Ivan's claim doesn't make sense to fake to me unless he's scum working with either of the two people who were neighbors to make a play like this but I find it highly unlikely to actually be this exact play. However looking at the claimed roles I agree with Bombay here saying these roles (at just face value in theory) just seems unbalanced that I'm not sure what to actual think and just feel like focusing on this is just not helping.

You're gonna need to sort it because right now it's 3 confirmed townies in my eyes and if you're trying to cast aspersions on that, I don't really like that.\

And the fact you're saying it as "not wanting to focus on it" to just ignore it instead of taking a stance is concerning too.

There's no way Ivan faked here and there's no way Shiro's scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Actually, Shiro can you confirm that you were in a neighborhood with LLD and Ivan? Kind of want an answer since I'm rethinking and found this to be potentially a bad paranoia.

You think Ivan and I would walk into this thread and Lie about Shiro being in the thread because we're... what, suicidal?

Honestly I wouldn't put it past anyone here in this game to make plays as such, but in all honesty, I don't think so anymore.

No but think ahead a few steps. If we lie about this... and shiro get into the thread.. and sees it.... what happens?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But looking at flipped roles and roles that are claimed, I don't feel like my fencesittyness here is particularly unjustified either.

I'm telling you it is unjustified. I'm telling you to your face that treating this claim as anything but true when it was made into the dark vs. Bombay's claim...

I don't know what to tell you. It's not worth questioning it for like 2 days, cause honestly if Ivan's scum, what's the motivation in making me confirmed town?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if Ivan's scum, what's the motivation in making me confirmed town?

I can think of one.

And what's that, he's scum with me?

So we kill 2 townies today and tomorrow and then neither of us are shot at all

and then people kill Ivan and or me and realize "well there's scum there, let's kill the others"

and the plan falls apart?

lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think I'd rather kill Bombay today that Suripoko at this point. I think they're both scum but this Bombay posting is really reading like desperation. Like they know if this happens as stated and becomes accepted they're fucked.

And that desperationn makes me more confident they're scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Desperation? Please sit down, that implies I'm actually scared of you, which I'm not.

You don't need to be scared to be desperate. I've been desperate before. Stop acting like you're some kind of fucking arrogant god of this game.

I've been desperate to avoid situations are scum plenty of times. This would be one for scum you. An accepted confirmed town me is essentially death for you. You've seen my reads.

God are you always gonna be this arrogant of a prick when I make an observation about your behaviour?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like jesus fucking christ what the fuck is wrong with you

[Lady Lambdadelta]

"SHE SAID A COMMENT ABOUT MY BEHAVIOUR AND IT MUST BE A CHALLENGE TO MY COMPETENCY. I'M THE BEST, I'LL TALK DOWN TO HER AND ACT REALLY SHITTY ASSUMING I KNOW WHAT SHE MEANT!"

fucks sakes

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i'm so fucking done

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I am willing to agree to kill Ivan tomorrow if you flip town.

You die today, we kill Ivan tomorrow if you're town.

You should be good with that, given you're making it a 1v1 at this point right?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That's not happening today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

What would you move (aside from yourself presumably) on this reads list:

TOWN
That Idiot Ivan, Lady Lambdadelta, Shiro

jjh927, T3

SirCakez
StrangeMatter

Rogue
The Bombay

mastina

Suripoko
SCUM

Same line reads are functionally equivalent, line breaks differentiate between overall tiers

Bombay Rogue up
jjh, T3, Strange Matter down

Fuck are you scum?

JJH is so town to me lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You seem so convinced that him parity copping you proves he is town. What about my town flip is going to 180 your stance on him?

Unless you agree that 3 investigatives firing night one is too much? So seeing my investigative flip will change your mind?

Please tell me why my town flip would change your read on Ivan.

@LLD

-Luke

Oh I'm not the one who wants Ivan dead, but if you're saying Ivan is this locked in I was assuming you'd be interested in it. But you're not, because you'll flip red and then... oops.

Like 1 for 1 is a trade any town would take right?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So trying to catch up right now.

So regardless of Ivan’s post rn I’m thinking that LLD is town.

So what we need to do is sort between {Bombay & Ivan}. Unless somehow town is stacked with majority of cop type roles, but that means scum needs to be massively stacked as well. Just something feels off regarding it.

LLD question what’s your read on Mastina? I know you can read her pretty well and I suck at it.

... am I that easy to read?

In the neighbourhood I have 3 scum suspects on my teamlist. Ivan or Shiro can confirm this.

Bombay/Suri/Mastina

Mastina's reads this game have made sense and she's pushing on Cakez/Bombay...

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I was withholding the Mastina read because I wanted to see how she'd go with my Bombay push and her scumread on Bombay... Alas, totally MIA on her part.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You seem so convinced that him parity copping you proves he is town. What about my town flip is going to 180 your stance on him?

Unless you agree that 3 investigatives firing night one is too much? So seeing my investigative flip will change your mind?

Please tell me why my town flip would change your read on Ivan.

@LLD

-Luke

Oh I'm not the one who wants Ivan dead, but if you're saying Ivan is this locked in I was assuming you'd be interested in it. But you're not, because you'll flip red and then... oops.

Like 1 for 1 is a trade any town would take right?

No, I don't think volunteering myself to die is the town thing to do. And I cannot imagine you accepting a 1 for 1 trade like this where you died first, so that line feels especially empty.

But I am trying to get a feel for your stance on this game, and it is not lining up. Just a moment ago, you were saying that my claim that a cop + a parity cop + my own role being too much town power was "tmi." Which, feels like you are implying that knowing my role could/should not make me doubt the parity cop claim.

So, to then see your offer to kill Ivan after my town flip, and me being an investigative being confirmed, doesn't sit right. Is it unreasonable for me, as a town investigative, to think that there are now too many investigative claims on the table? Or, would seeing my flip lead you to agree with my take on the balance.

The logic behind acting like my doubt makes no sense and behind killing Ivan after my flip feels inconsistent.

-Luke

You're not trying to get a sense of my stance on this game, you're trying to discredit it.

You're not trying to read my alignment right now. You've already committed to me being scum, your motivations are not lining up with what you're saying.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like Luke, I scum read your slot, I'm poking you for reactions and to show others your reactions.

I don't need to be consistent. I'm confirmed town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have not committed to you being scum. Marci has.

Frankly, I can see you making similar moves as town just because of the type of player you are.

If you are town, I am pretty sure that if I died, you would not kill Ivan tomorrow. That would be the inconsistency. You were not actually willing to kill someone you are convinced it town, you just wanted to set up a gotcha moment on someone you thought was scum.

... yes, correct. I have no intention of killing Ivan tomorrow.

Well... okay so, there are circumstances I might? But I can't see myself getting there in this game, not tomorrow at least.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm not willing to bet hard on Ivan being scum here, not for a day and probably not for 2 days.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I am reading the gamestate

Suripoko will be the elim without a significant gamestate shift

Then lets make that happen.

Who would you consider killing today?

Mastina and I look to both be open to Cakez, which already ties (I am assuming Suri's vote to be on what ever counter wagon exists, obviously).

Rogue has voiced concerns about Ivan's claim, and might join that wagon. You, me, Mastina, Rogue, and Suri handedly becomes the top wagon since that pulls a Rogue's vote off of Suri.

For reasons I cannot understand, people seems strangely resistant to the T3 push despite him doing fuck all all day phase. So, that seems off the table. :/

Hey, for everyone reading along?

This slot is currently calling me confirmed town and trying to make wagons that include neither Shiro nor My vote.

That's not something town does. If Shiro and I are town, and there's 3 scum remaining...

You would need to go 6/6 for a wagon to contain no bussing scum.

So if Bombay is town, they're saying either

1) they think they can use this strategy and scum will choose to bus

or

2) they're so confident in their reads they can identify and convince the 6 townies that exist in the game that aren't named LLD and Shiro.

These are both ludicrous claims, and should tell you a LOT about Bombay's alignment.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like everyone on this page right now currently posting should take a look at that post I just made and ask themselves one question

How can there exist a townie who both believes Shiro and I are town and believes they will achieve a scum elimination today without at least one of our votes onside?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I want Bombay or Mastina today. Suri can't live forever and won't, but once I'm dead this town gets a lot easier to run over.

So fi this is my last day alive and it's sure as hell looking like it.

I'm not letting anyone shoot their shot without my say so, and the people who try get to answer the above question about numbers and likelyhood of hitting scum as a result

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hey JJH

In the past you've claimed to be able to read mastina very strongly

Where is your mastina read and why have you not been singing it to high heavens, one way or another?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean
Consider that if you are wrong on bombay, then bombay has reason to doubt your reads

Then bombay should be trying to convince me otherwise, not trying to organize 6 voters, at least one of which needs to be scum from my POV, to kill someone.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

1) I have never called you confirmed town. I am leaning town on you. Marci on the fence.

2) You are currently voting for me, which means you don't seem like a person I can really work with right now.

3) Every person I am trying to work with are people that I think are town (Mastina, jjh, and rogue).

You recognize that unless scum bus your plan REQUIRES you to find the 6 townies, yes?

And the fact is I am confirmed town at this point. Your constant denials only condemn you further to me.

I'm telling you that the way for you to play this day as town is to work with me and convince me not to kill you.

And the way for you to play this day as scum is to continue to discredit me and push your own agenda.

And I know which one you've done so that's where my suspicion lies.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Mastina is town

Statistically speaking my read on Mastina is strong, but I don't know about that. I am pretty confident she is town here though

Okay, so let's play a game shall we.

Ivan Shiro Mastina you and I are off the table for today. In this hypothetical.

That leaves you
Bombay
Rogue
SM
Cakez
T3
Suripoko

Who would you kill today and assuming they flip scum (so assuming you're right) who is scum with them?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean
Consider that if you are wrong on bombay, then bombay has reason to doubt your reads

Then bombay should be trying to convince me otherwise, not trying to organize 6 voters, at least one of which needs to be scum from my POV, to kill someone.

To be real with you, I figured my best way to do that was to organize a wagon on my scum reads, and kill scum today. I frankly don't know that you would respond to anything else.

In a situation where you're trying to kill the person who claimed a parity cop read on me, it's hard to take that as such.

Still, it's not like I haven't suspected Cakez. It's possible Cakez is the scum in the wheel of Mastina's gameplay over yours.

But in this game right now, you need to convince townies. And if you're leaving Shiro and I off to the side, and making it a thing where we vote against you...

if you are town, you have to expect at that point, the scum will vote you

so consider you're 3/3 right? let's say you're right

so T3 Cakez Ivan Shiro and I are gonna vote you

and you'll need to convince

Mastina
JJH
Suripoko
Rogue
StrangeMatter

all to vote your target.

That's not likely to happen, but possible.

Now say you're only 2/3. Well, now the 5 names I said above are voting you and all it takes is the 3rd unfound scum to not vote with you, vote with us and you die.

And the less right you are, the worse it gets.

So all roads lead through rome today, friend. I'm in a position that you're not able to just play around me and avoid me today.

If you think I'm town, which you kinda gotta, you need me to sign off and believe you're town too, or you better be DAMN sure that you have all the other townies right

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Bombay, just for what it's worth since you are probably missing the mechanical subtleties here-

LLD and Shiro are conftown from each others' perspectives as a result of Ivan's role. I believe 'parity cop' is just a way of simplifying how the role actually works in practice, and that they have effectively received the result on each other in some way.

I don't think that this is true. They are only confirmed town to one another if Ivan is town.

@LLD- is the parity cop confirmed in the hood?

No

They are not confirmed town. I think that LLD is likely town, but she is claiming that she is confirmed. That is not true. Unless Ivan dies, and actually flips parity cop.

At which point I'm shot and killed and then oh look the scum get to say "Well it was the right play" when it was garbage.

The town owes this claim one kill, one vote to try and prove itself, before it gets mutinous.

And I'm not saying you take it from Ivan himself.

But you need to work with Shiro and I, if you are indeed town.

Which I currently have doubts on.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like here's the thing

For me, I've yet to see a Bombay full claim. And yet you speak with the authority on the balance of the game that you should never have.

You have no reason to believe that Ivan is fake, or that your roles can't all exist in one. It's very likely scum has disruption or worse powers in store.

So fuck it, I think we have to masslcaim today. If the ledger of Bombay's argument is on the mechanical improbility of Ivan's role existing, we should massclaim today and settle the mess, yes?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That assumes that all three scum would jump on your Lukewarm wagon. Which seems pretty suicidal for a scum team as a whole. But frankly, I was not thinking about it to the point of there being exactly two wagons. I was at "There are currently 6 wagons, and we can easily consolidate some of that to kill one of my scum reads".

That being said VOTE: SirCakez since that is where jjh said he would go.

Not remotely suicidal with the way you are currently playing.

Cause with how you're playing I'll kill you without a problem, get shot tonight, and then no one will look back and give 2 shits.

You are playing in such a way that if we are both town, loses town the game.

I am telling you you're doing this, and you continue on the path anyway undisturbed.

Which means to me you're scum because town would have fucking taken the pause by now to consider "well shit".

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't think that this is true. They are only confirmed town to one another if Ivan is town.

Based on the way they have phrased certain things and a particular sentence a while back that I am not quoting, it is near certain that Ivan's role conftowns them firsthand to each other, rather than being reliant on Ivan's second hand explanation of his result.

If you believe this, why are you bouncing ideas off Bombay and not Shiro and I?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm gonna need a massclaim. People are sitting on too many secrets and it's not fucking worth it. At this point, Bombay, if you're right baout YOUR read as town on the roles?

Then all the good investigative roles are dead. Right? All the major power is outted already or dead.

So what do we lose from putting it all to light in your eyes?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So, we landed what should have been a guilty. Ivan is claiming that he can get 2 innocent results night one (this is probably worse if he did not choose his targets), and his ability cannot be roleblocked. Dwlee would have had a 4th alignment reveal if he was not killed Day 1.

That is 4 alignment reveals on night one. That does not seem balanced.

Then let's all full claim and see, shall we?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Okay I'm going to regret this when I wake up tomorrow but I think I can explain some of the setup balance variance you're picking up here

Kay, I'm gonna need you to full claim or you're eating my Dracon Laser Beam tonight.

I'm tired of this shit, I'm tired of us all playing fucking footsie with roles and dancing around shit.

Claim. Please. For the love of fucking god.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I am /r/pikmin, and I am a third party survivor

I can also leave the game early as a winner (the game continues) if I collect all of my ship parts. There are 4 of them. I target 3 people each night, and I got one last night out of (mastina, lld, skitter).

Fuck off I'm shooting you anyway lmfaoooooooooooo

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You probably got a space part from me because I'm space based?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

JFC, why would you claim that if you're town?!?

Do you not see LLD shouting from the roof tops for me to claim?

This feels like a fake reaction given what is actually happening in the thread.

Speaking of, your turn.

Full claim. At this point just full claim please.

I'll claim right after if you need it I don't care I just need to fucking understand this game and massclaim is the goal.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You probably got a space part from me because I'm space based?

I got a pm at the start of the night saying I received a box of mechanical parts. And the start of the day, I got a pm saying that I lost the box of mechanical parts.

I am pretty sure that is what jjh was looking for.

I'm aware, I got the same.

Oh, wait, so you're saying only people who got those are his parts? Ahhh so it's random

I assumed the boxes were his probes or something

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, given that everything I'm claiming is backed up in the hood, I assume you want my full claim later in the process? If not, happy to get this shit done with pronto, but yeah.

Losing a vote if jjh self-resolves and exits isn't to our advantage if we don't start eliming scum.

And really, Bombay? You do whatever LLD tells you to? And that doesn't explain your start of day behavior claiming anything at all. Do walk me through your thought process there.

Yeah I'm going to have both you and Bombay full claim in thread.

But until Bombay does, you're holding.

and more importantly, Bombay, if you're town I don't care whatever pride or shit you have and you wanna wait for day 3 when you're basing your accusations and logic on role stuff.

I want your claim.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

At this point with JJH's claim I'm seriously considering you might both be town, so just for the love of fcking god give me your claim so I can weigh both of them without either of you getting to see the others to alter it.

PLEASE

[Lady Lambdadelta]

aSDFGSsffgds

[Lady Lambdadelta]

WHY ARE YOU STILL TALKING?!?!?

No, this was the correct choice.

Why are you being like this?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Anyway, full claim your role now Ivan.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm gonna get this massclaim done if it fucking kills me lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I want a Mastina full claim next, please. Mastina can popcorn from there.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Unless there's more to it I know Mastina's role and it's pretty low power

???

How the fuck do you know this

I want you to claim it, and then Mastina can clear up.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And even when I did claim my commute, I was sitting here realizing that I was never going to be might killed now. Not with LLD having such a strong desire to kill me. I was suddenly a very miselimable slot.

I weighed that in my decision to claim my commute. The commute value was greatly demished by LLD's read on me.

I honestly don't know if this is real arrogance or scum bravado but the truth is you were never getting shot night 1 or 2 IMO.

And the fact it took you THIS LONG to full claim.

and the fact that you thought that ODD NIGHT WATCHER and ONE SHOT PARITY COP with Dwlee's cop thing was so unbalanced I will never fucking understand as a townie logic.

and don't say you didn't know Ivan's thing was oneshot cause you just got done saying you knew it was one shot the whole time so

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Unless there's more to it I know Mastina's role and it's pretty low power

???

How the fuck do you know this

I want you to claim it, and then Mastina can clear up.

I already did claim it, as did Mastina

She has a messenger role with 100 characters

There is a 0 percent chance that is her whole role.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I honestly want to kill Mastina over T3 but I admit T3 is under my radar and I don't have a good read on them

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm in support of every person in this town claiming today so, no I don't particularly care about how people feel about me making people say the words.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Do you think that with a likely 7:3:1 split we're in a good position to have all the info on the table? I'm doubtful that a morph game is that readily solved.

I think right now we're in a right state of confusion.

A massclaim will not break this game... but it might inform us going forward on how we can play.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You know that Cabd and ffery are going to include something to punish town for giving scum free info. I don't think we're that confused at this point.

Okay, I'll sleep on it.

You and Bombay needed to claim though or I was gonna lose my mind and JJH needed to claim for being a cheeky fucker with answers who wasn't sharing.

I stand by that much at least. But we don't need to rush the rest.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I want Mastina today, I think.

Vote: Mastina

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote:Rogue

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Got a message from M2 saying "Shiro is making me Loyal, so if you receive this, masonry!"

I know Shiro has the power to make people loyal so...

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yep agree

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Shiro did you tell Mastina about my role at all?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

unvote

I want to at least see a massclaim today including actions.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm assuming LLD is going to want Rogue to claim first. I believe the only claims outstanding that are actually needed here are Rogue, Cakez, and T3. I've full-claimed in my neighborhood and mostly claimed here.

P-edit: sure, Bombay, claim again. Why not.

yes, that order

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We’re arcane.

We had a choice pregame of Piltover or Zaun. Piltover made us an inventor with an activatable commute and PGO.

But fuck Piltover.

We are a doctor who delays death a la the bleed out mechanic. Aka, the “alternative kill” that Shiro can stop. My guess is scum have a strongman and our combo can beat out the strongman to guarantee results. This is part of why I was so skeptical of Ivan once all the claims were out there, because with me around it already felt busted as fuck.

I didn’t mind the watcher claim as o it role seems like a decent workaround to the busted combination.

So yeah.

We targeted Bombay N1, because they seemed solidly Town. I was basically in the same boat as they were re protective decisions N1, after day one I kinda had squick feels about LLD.

Last night I tried to protect LLD.

Interesting.

You have one power and you used it on Bombay night one and me night two?

Explain to me how your power works, vis a vis bleed out?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Understood.

By the way, this day doesn't end until I say so, understood? I have things I need to work out in private... but all will be revealed soon enough.

Cakez, you're up next with a full claim.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And yes, T3 Claim next with Night actions as well

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You're not conftown btw Mastina.

The fact that Shiro informed you you would be loyal prior to your action means that any strongman modification you could have placed on yourself would have pierced through the Loyal modifier.

Just a sneak peak into the big reveal of stupid info that is coming down the pipeline.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

T3 claim next post

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Okay.... secret number 2.

I'm dead.

I was poisoned last night, and will die and the end of this day.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Secret 3:

I was ROLEBLOCKED last night.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Secret 3:

I was ROLEBLOCKED last night.

What?

That would be a third roleblock after Suri and Strange.

I know.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The flavour of the poison was COVID and a Distinct Lack of Advertising on my Subreddit.

It's possible the poison is the roleblock as well. Something to do with Quarantine.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

To be clear

I was the one who instructed SM to block Rogue last night. They DID say they were already thinking of doing it... but.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Another secret, my claim.

I'm r/animorphs, I'm a JOAT. I have 5 possible forms I can take. I start in Human form, with no powers. Every night, I transform into a new form, and take on its powers.

Phoenix Form gives me immunity from direct kills, but not poison, arson. Pierced by strongman.
Panther form gives me a day tracker.
Cow form gives me Loved.
Snake form gives me Ascetic.

If I stay in a single form more than one day night cycle at a time, I'm Nothlit and stuck in that form, with its powers. If I visit all 5 forms in a game, I am superpowered and get all 5 powers, including Loved even in ELO.

Night 1 I went into Phoenix form, to dodge a kill. Night 2, I switched to Panther but was blocked and became Nothlit in Phoenix. I was also poisoned, which ignored Phoenix.

With my bulletproof, SM's JK, Ivan's BP and Rogue's doctor claim, as well as T3's strong Doctor claim.

That's 5 kill immunities. I don't care how much poison is in this game, there are not 5 kill immunities.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Okay in my mind...

Vote: SirCakez

This is the play I want today.

Don't consider Mastina hard town, a strongman function on the scum makes a lot of sense this game, and it's possible the poison was used on me to let me live long enough to clear Mastina, and not long enough to suspect her.

So kill Mastina before ELO.

I think from the votes yesterday, at LEAST one of Mastina and SirCakez has to be scum for this game to make sense and for 4/3/3 to have come out with a scum kill.

Cause with the names on list, at least 1 scum bussed.

I think you kill Cakez, and if he flips green you kill Rogue

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Bombay could still be scum but I'll tell you what?

I don't think T3 is. I think there are way better fake claims and way more powerful roles he could have claimed and it matching the other chess game and only existing so long as chess does and being a town and town game of back and forth.

Makes sense.

So I'm suspicious of everyone who wants T3 dead.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I personally think T3 is town and I think SM is probably town too.

so for me, town block is

Shiro and SM and T3.

If Bombay isn't scum, they'll be a watcher tonight. That should be interesting, so we don't kill there.

Ivan probably town at this point for me, I'm willing to bet my game on it at least.

Leaves me with just: SirCakez/Rogue/Mastina

I think if you kill those 3 the game will not end. Worst case you should be in 3P ELO.

Like, assuming no bonus kills happen, we're at 9 players, 7-2.

So even if 2/3 of Cakez/Rogue/Mastina are town, and only one is scum. And even if we kill the scum last right. Like let's say...

Cakez Town dies 6 town 2 scum
scum shoots 5 town 2 scum
Mastina town dies 4 town 2 scum
scum shoots 3 town 2 scum
Rogue scum dies 3 town 1 scum
scum shoots 2 town 1 scum

So as long as ONE of those 3 is scum, the game should continue. I'm confident that AT LEAST one of those 3 is scum, if not both.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So you're all good with Rogue claiming that they're the ones who can commute a kill to poison, and yet you were poisoned when they were blocked? And that Mala posted:

Bravoooo

Us being roleblockee by SM more than just killed LLD

Fml

indicating that their action would have had a better outcome for you than the poisoning you ended up with?

I agree on the vote count consideration. Actually want to look back at that again here...

Nah I just did some math. Rogue is on the kill list too.

Cakez today, I don't care which of Rogue or Mastina goes tomorrow as long as you kill BOTH.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So you're all good with Rogue claiming that they're the ones who can commute a kill to poison, and yet you were poisoned when they were blocked? And that Mala posted:

Bravoooo

Us being roleblockee by SM more than just killed LLD

Fml

indicating that their action would have had a better outcome for you than the poisoning you ended up with?

I agree on the vote count consideration. Actually want to look back at that again here...

Also remember that they cannot be the one who poisoned me. SM roleblocked them last night. Regardless of whatever setup you think is involved in their claim and things they were RB'd last night.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cakez Town dies 6 town 2 scum
scum shoots 5 town 2 scum
Mastina town dies 4 town 2 scum
scum shoots 3 town 2 scum
Rogue scum dies 3 town 1 scum
scum shoots 2 town 1 scum

I agree that two of them are scum, and maybe I'm just fussing at it to be pedantic, but you aren't counting yourself dying at the end of the day.

Oh. Right. I forgot.

Gah, so only 2 shots, or rather, if there's only 1 scum in those 3, we can't go Town Town...

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Bombay could still be scum but I'll tell you what?

I don't think T3 is. I think there are way better fake claims and way more powerful roles he could have claimed and it matching the other chess game and only existing so long as chess does and being a town and town game of back and forth.

Makes sense.

So I'm suspicious of everyone who wants T3 dead.

I think you need to put more words into this read if you want me to not immediately try to kill T3 tomorrow, thanks!

If you think you're in control tomorrow over the town block I'm building, you once again need to check your arrogance.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

(Just letting you know that I have read everything, but I am on my phone right now, and everything that I want to say, requires a desktop to say, and I can't do it while phoneposting. It'll be a fair amount, too, so expect it circa 6-8 hours from now.

That said, one of the things, Ivan brought up already, but LLD also forgot ANOTHER issue beyond the stated. She forgot about a critical fact that both she and I know, which isn't public, but which would even further fuck the town over if eliminating me.)

EDIT: Almost forgot to say,
Yes, I intend to vote SirCakez, but will do so only after LLD has had a chance to hear what I have to say and revise the flawed plan.

I

am supposed to know something?

and Ivan knows it too, but I have no memory?

What?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And you do realize that your town block did not even get the kill you wanted yesterday, when you were here to lead it, right? I seem to remember someone saying something about the importance of working with the other people you think are likely to be town. Well, here I am asking you to engage with me on the read that you and I are most split on. But fuck me I guess.

You're not coming to me to work with me.

You're coming to me being arrogant and being like "when you're dead lol, i'm just doing this so explain better lul"

Like fuck you. This isn't about working together for you so don't pretend it is. Not after you went full fuckin ego maniac day 2 as well.

Don't spit in my face and then come back and tell me my own words about working together when you rejected that to start.

You're the one who was impossible to work with, not me. Don't blame me now for not putting my hand out a second time to get bitten again.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yeah, duh.

Pooky has done this before, in the bloodstained game. Speed hammer a townie to get killed with the beloved princess thing.

I don't know what Pooky gained as a result on that day, but I think we have to look at who pooky was protecting on day 1 to accomplish that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cause otherwise Why Hammer Dwlee Without A Claim?

There's only one reason to do that and it's self sacrificial. Suripoko had to know they would die as a result of this when they did it. So what do they gain?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, I made the decision to try and work with you before the end of the day. I extended an olive branch, and claimed simply because you wanted me to. I stopped pushing my own reads, and moved my vote to Mastina to try and work with you.

The point of 1408 was to say that you have not said anything to make my suspicions go away, and I am not going to blindly sheep you, so maybe you should say more on T3.

And then I immediately outlined my own thoughts on the slot so you could engage with my thoughts.

I feel like you are reading a lot into my posts that I never intended to be there.

if I am reading too much intention into your posts, it is because at this point you have conditioned it there

regardless, i want people to look at day 1 and decide, if Dwlee claims and we believe Dwlee's claim and don't kill them...

who would we kill after as a result?

think with that in mind

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We are doing Cakez today. I have words about my final thoughts before we do, but I won't take anyone else today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Sorry but this is my last day alive and I have paranoia about any other kill.

Let me shoot my shot and die.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

that's so dumb

Sorry but your claim is sketch, your not dying over Suripoko is scummy, your reads are scummy and your general play has not been town Cakez for me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, thoughts upon a Cakez town flip and a Cakez scum flip then?

I kind of want hammer today to explain once people lock on, but...

I have thoughts on both outcomes.

But we are doing it today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The second one. Though I now recall that someone else wants to do that so... I'll find a way.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I feel like i need people committed to this course before I start posting if,then stuff.

Cause when I start doing that people will doubt me people will flake and I want cakez today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, much of my if,then is going to be a guide but not a command.

I don't feel comfortable telling you "always do this" when who knows what results from night play or deaths show up.

But I am going to try and leave last words to guide you from beyond the grave.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Are you actively trying to get me to kill Rogue over Cakez today?

I do not have Rogue as town, if anything I am at pure confusion for them, and definitely in the pool of "if I am wrong on T3+Cakez" look at them again.

I guess I am unsure the point of having this conversation right now unless you are trying to save Cakez.

That is their intent, yes.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If Cakez flips scum I think Ivan has to die, followed by Rogue.

If Cakez flips town... Kill Rogue or Bombay.

I think Mastina might be scum but for the sake of my brain I'm not willing to go down that road. I think Shiro SM are lock town for me and I think Bombay is a problem that solves itself but here is the thing.

Bombay can easily be scum here. Once I am dead, most of the town has ignored them. Go back and read them no mattre what the flip is bit if Cakez is scum they are much less likely to be scum IMO

[Lady Lambdadelta]

GTH scum with Mastina; their apathy here is speaking volumes and that recent post where Mala fencesits on me just confirms it; like they already know I'm flipping town but don't want to rock the boat on my wagon

Is definitely town - LLD, Shiro, SM
Scum is in this pool if one of the above two is town - Ivan, Bombay, T3

Ughhh

I cant tell if this is scum mirroring town for paranoia before they flip or town being town.

But at this point it can be either so I can't really pick. Like Cakez is on death door so saying this could be wifom

[Lady Lambdadelta]

IMO t3 is town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Never kill t3. Never. If we lose to that we lose to that and it's my fault I accept that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I feel like I gotta stick to my guns and if I am wrong and on and off game hopefully y'all can course correct once I am dead.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Lock town: Shiro SM T3

In the pool: Ivan, Mastina, Bombay, Rogue

If Cakez is town remove Ivan for tomorrow and shoot in Mastina Bombay Rogue.

If Cakez is scum shoot Ivan

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If you have time, summary of your mastina read?

Requires a LOT of things to go wrong for them to be scum given Loyal. Not impossible but not worth risking. Even tomorrow I thibk shooting Rogue or Bombay is better than shooting Mastina if Cakez is town.

If Cakez is scum, after you die... See who is alive.

Mastina reads like townish to me but there are posts that make me go "scum" and I scumread her from day 2 onward so....

Idk

I'm the most mixed on that read.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I hate that I might be wrong here. I haven't been this uncertain of a kill in a long time.

But this is what makes sense to me. This is what makes the pieces of the puzzle fit in my brain.

I have to try and revive this game for once I am dead.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You aren't actually dead though yet

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I believe you would troll if ACTUALLY dead but

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Just do it. If I'm wrong I'm sorry. Off game I guess.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That would be cool lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Sigh...
Do we have the people to switch the wagon?