Mini 815 - Lazy Neighborhood Mafia (Game Over)

[AshMC1984]

I would random vote Sajin.... but I can't be bovvered frankly. Oh... I guess I better do my bit... just gimme a minute....

[AshMC1984]

Hnnngh!

[AshMC1984]

Ungh!

[AshMC1984]

Vote: Sajin

Oof.... there we go. I'm gonna go have a lay-down now.

[AshMC1984]

What? We were allowed to talk pre-game? Like a Night 0?

@Sajin: How do you know that Falco was talking to other people?

[AshMC1984]

What? We were allowed to talk pre-game? Like a Night 0?

During confimation phase, you can talk by PMs with the two people you are connected with. If your role PM allows you to talk with some other people than just your neighbors, you can do that too.

Hope that helps. Why? Didn't your neighbors attempt to contact you at all?

Oops, must have missed that. You mean I could have been getting to know these fine folk on either side of me this whole time? No, no welcome committee.

The Falko thing appears to be confusion.

Unless there are any missing PMs?.... Sajin is there a more damning communique? If so please publish it.

[AshMC1984]

It looks like someone is trying to twist words in the Sajin / Falko / SSK exchange. I think that Sajin and Falko are confusing the hell out of each other. Getting a slight-med town-read on Sajin who appears eager to hunt and is coming off as genuine to me. I'm going to look past them at SSK. He should know the true order of the way things went down and I don't think it warranted a vote if I'm reading the reported exchange correctly. Might be hoping for an easy lynch - it looks like Falko struggles to defend himself and is doing a sloppy job but I think that's a language issue.

Unvote, vote: MafiaSSK

@All who haven't specified: Don't necessarily need to know what was discussed, but please confirm whether or not you communicated with any neighbours pre-game. If so, who?

Not liking ZONE clamming up. He has a point, but your reason for not contacting might be different than his. He asked first so you should answer first.

[AshMC1984]

Not liking ZONE clamming up. He has a point, but your reason for not contacting might be different than his. He asked first so you should answer first.

if he had a reason for not contacting me then he shoudl come out with it.

My point standsd that he finds me suspicious for not contacting him when at the same time he didn't contact me. So if I'm suspicious, so IS HE. ANd his trying to force suspicion onto me for doing the same thing he did is not only hypocritical, it can be a scumtell.

Zeik never said he finds you suspicious. He said Sir tried to coax him into voting for you. His question looks like a side issue. Then Sir voted for you in what looks like a random vote. Maybe it wasn't so random.

Fos: Sir

because to me it looks like you tried to make your ZONE vote look random but apparently you were planning on lynching him as early as pre-game.

@Sir: What have you got against ZONE?

@Zeik: To what level did Sir appeal for your ZONE vote? Casual? More? Feel free to post PMs so we get an accurate picture.

[AshMC1984]

Falko's post 88 raises several questions.

1. @Falko: Why had you still not answered Sajin's first PM 21 hours after originally opening it? I can see how Sajin would draw the conclusion that you were waiting on scumbuddies opinions about how best to answer his questions.

2. Why did it take you 5 hours to answer his second post? They seem pretty straight forward to me. I would think that a townie would be able to answer immediately and honestly. A scumbag might spend a long time trying to get the PM word-perfect to appear the most innocent or alternatively take time consulting with scumbuddies.

3. Your second post can be taken ambiguously. On one level (the way I first take it) it appears that your second post was meant for someone else, not Sajin, possibly meant for a scumbuddy and you can't keep track of who you are contacting.

Unvote

After seeing the correspondence in full I think Falko looks scummy.

Vote: Falko

Please explain yourself.

[AshMC1984]

Falko's post 88 raises several questions.

1. @Falko: Why had you still not answered Sajin's first PM 21 hours after originally opening it? I can see how Sajin would draw the conclusion that you were waiting on scumbuddies opinions about how best to answer his questions.

2. Why did it take you 5 hours to answer his second post? They seem pretty straight forward to me. I would think that a townie would be able to answer immediately and honestly. A scumbag might spend a long time trying to get the PM word-perfect to appear the most innocent or alternatively take time consulting with scumbuddies.

3. Your second post can be taken ambiguously. On one level (the way I first take it) it appears that your second post was meant for someone else, not Sajin, possibly meant for a scumbuddy and you can't keep track of who you are contacting.

Unvote

After seeing the correspondence in full I think Falko looks scummy.

Vote: Falko

Please explain yourself.

1. Because I was in another city. I just could open my account, check some messages and go quick.

2. Actually, it doesn't was 5 hours. Was 26 hours. If you think that I supposed to reply within 1 hour, or a time that you consider enough, good for you with your case. Just send me a schedule so I can take vacations, job and sleeping hours according


3. You are confused. The first two post were from sajin to me. When I had time, I reply each of then. In the first one he ask me if I 'm scum. In the second he ask me if I'm waiting for scum buddies. So, In my first post I say him that I'm not scum. In the second I said that I'm not waiting for scum buddies, but waiting for the game to start. why can be taken that post as be directed to someone else?...and I am with the language problems here...

1. I'm not fussy about prompt replies in general, but in this case - how long would it take to quickly type "no, I am not scum.... are you?" or something? In this particular set-up, I agree it's a decent D1 lead. Do you agree?

2. I understand RL commitments, but in this particular situation, well, see above.

3. This is what I'm referring to:

Sajin:

24 hours after you picked up my PM and no reply. Waiting on scumbuddies are we?

To which you replied:

not really. Waitingto the game to proper start I say. And you...what about you.

And plus, how can you contact me?? I tried contact my another neighbour and I could'n see how

Even making allowances for language barriers, this looks suspect.

@ Ash - In the context of an online mafia game, I don't think that how long it takes to respond to PMs is a very reliable tell.

See above. Also I agree that it's not

very

reliable, but a decent starting point for a D1 case, especially in the context of this particular game.

[AshMC1984]

When you send a message it appears in your Outbox. You can tell if the recipient has opened the message because it moves from your Outbox to your Sent box.

[AshMC1984]

For me, I'm not focusing on the

"I tried contact my another neighbour"

bit. That's ambiguous and consistent with something Falko would say.

I'm focusing on:

Q:

Waiting on scumbuddies are we?

A:

not really. Waitingto the game to proper start I say

You can see where Sajin was possibly not the intended recipient due to the answer being inappropriate to the question.

So either:

1. Falko is answering Sajin in the negative, just in an awkward manner.

or

2. Falko was answering another PM (a hypothetical PM from a scumbuddy or at the least, someone other than Sajin.)

I can also see a third possibility. I wouldn't put it past Falko to think that Sajin

was

his scumbuddy! He doesn't seem to have paid too much attention to who sent him PMs.

[AshMC1984]

Iec has a good point about the structure. Willing to retract that point from the Falko-case. The lost time still stands though.

@ Falko: When I said I wasn't focusing on that part I meant that as in not add it to your case. I was saying it is null. It's too poorly worded and thus ambiguous.

I'm not going out of my way to find holes in your statements. That's pure OMGUS.

Are you going to suspect everyone that questions you?

[AshMC1984]

Sajin should play his trump card before any further votes are placed on Falko (read immediately). If Falko is lynched and flips town, Sajin would be able to say anything and Falko couldn't refute it.

[AshMC1984]

EBWOP: I had a think and feel I know what Sajin is getting at. Perhaps it's best he doesn't play his trump, suffice to say I'm happy to leave my vote on Falko.

[AshMC1984]

@iec: if falko has lied about communications (more than just a typo) I see no reason why Sajin shouldn't out him immediately. If there is something else involved, he might do best to keep it to himself.

[AshMC1984]

@Falko: I was retracting the point about you slipping and sending the PM to the wrong person. There's still the matter of the lost time and OMGUS.

@ SSK: In my 134, I was referring to the fact that Sajin might have a pro-town reason to keep some info to himself. Please clarify if that's not the part of the post you were talking about.

@Sajin: Apologies if you've already said so, but do you have a

strong

read on Falko?

@Zeik: Why so quick to barn Sajin?

[AshMC1984]

@Falko: I understand you just fine (mostly). I am concerned you couldn't take a minute or two to answer Sajin's fairly straight-forward questions via PM, even if busy. Even just "no". You could have been conferring with fellow scum. Also you are OMGUSing instead of scumhunting. I am still voting you because I rarely leave my vote unused. I am still suspicious of SSKs nonchalant hop on your wagon and Zeik to an extent. This day will most likely end with my vote on you or SSK.

@SSK: I can see noob-town reacting as Falko has at L-3.

@Zeik: Fair enough for now. Just seems like blindly following unquestioningly.

Unvote

SSK and Zeik jumped on Falko's wagon too unquestioningly, and haven't added much since and they've had time. I think my vote was better placed before.

Vote: MafiaSSK.

The Falko thing is a decent lead Sajin but the scummy wagon puts me off.

[AshMC1984]

@halflight: I kind of am partially narrowing my vision. With the Sajin / Falko / SSK exchange I think there is a good likelihood of scum being involved. The lurking is a worry but I'd probably be more inclined to lynch on the info instead of the lack of info in this case.

@SSK: Yes, Zeik seems happy to just plonk his vote down and leave it at that. He's scummy. You were a part of the pre-game PMs though, and I think you used ambiguity in Falko's writing to go after him, twisting to advantage. You are a shade scummier than Zeik.

Half the town has now weighed in on the main focus of today with a vote on either Sajin, SSK or Falko. I'd like those who haven't commented to do so.

[AshMC1984]

@HL: I'd probably be more inclined to go for an established case over a lurker. The longer they lurk the scummier they look though. If town - please post - you will cause mislynches. If they are scum all the better.

@Iec: I think my post confused you. I was saying Sajin needs more than just a single typo in Falko's version of events to convince me. I agree it's been dragged out long enough.

@ZONE: More info for town is good.

@SSK: So quick to abandon the Falko-wagon? ZONE seem like an easier lynch?

This game need moar SSK death plz. kthx

I believe ZONE's claim.

It's likely that someone who has a gun is close to ZONE - the mod said something pre-game about roles being positioned in a pre-determined manner, not randomly selected, for balance reasons. Therefore is ZONE is a gun-finder, someone near him has a gun or else his role would be pretty pointless.

[AshMC1984]

And about Zone...I think that it's excessive the way he just roleclaim....

I have some ZONE meta and I get the feeling that that is just ZONE - it's a bit of a null-tell.

@SSK: So quick to abandon the Falko-wagon? ZONE seem like an easier lynch?

This game need moar SSK death plz. kthx

Who ever said that I was? Reading the rules is tech.

I don't understand. You did an illegal vote on purpose?

Back again:

1. halflight, I would appreciate it if you would respond to the quotes in my previous post. Also, please refrain from implying unequal knowledge of the set-up. I believe that it is anti-town.
2. I agree with Y and Ash with regard to Sajin's lack of cooperativeness. I am not certain that he is scum, because I think this would be a very silly pre-game gamble for scum to make. [/wifom] I will nonetheless

Vote: Sajin

to encourage his cooperation.
3. Sajin was correct about Zone's reason for not using his limited masonry. I won't dwell on this as I didn't use mine, either.
4. I was going to argue that SSK's vote for Zone based on "overreacting" was not well-motivated, but, as said vote was followed by a genuine overreaction, maybe I misread Zone's posts. I am not yet certain whether to believe Zone's claim, but I believe said claim was anti-town.
5. Ash, Zone's neighbors are you and Zeik. Why didn't you mention yourself in the context of "Zone's neighbors" ?

Also, when did the Mod claim that the set-up was pre-determined? (I don't see it under Game-Specific Rules.) Moreover, the rules state that neighbors will be adjusted at night (maybe just to account for lynches and NKs, but maybe not), so, assuming that neighbor adjustment is random and occurs at the start of each night, I'm inclined to believe that the hypothetical pre-determined aspect of the set-up may be as simple as Mafia not being neighbors.

I have several problems with this post.

1. I think you were right the first time about SSK, especially if he has some ZONE meta - knows that he could probably be pushed to over-react himself into a lynch.
2. Something seems dodgy in your Sajin vote. Can't quits place it yet, but I'm going to record it here for later referance.
3. I never said ZONE's neighbours - I said someone close to ZONE. That includes you. I would think that at least one person is armed in this radius:

Iec-Me-

ZONE

-Zeik-Sir

I think one mafia is within a reasonable distance of ZONE to make his power worth it.

The mod mentioned probable pre-determined roles before the game started - either in the sign up thread or the theme test market thread.

I can see Sajin as town bluffing to pressure someone.

[AshMC1984]

And about Zone...I think that it's excessive the way he just roleclaim....

I have some ZONE meta and I get the feeling that that is just ZONE - it's a bit of a null-tell.

if you think its a null tell, you have no meta.

I believe your claim, but I'm saying that the way you are playing seems consistent with you. If you are saying you over-react like this as town, but would keep your cool as scum, that's WIFOM.

[AshMC1984]

I interpreted the same way as Y.

[AshMC1984]

@Iec: I don't know if SSK and ZONE have come across each other before. It was a hypothetical. I assumed one / both of them would confirm / correct me. ZONE has posted and hasn't said otherwise.

[AshMC1984]

The mod mentioned probable pre-determined roles before the game started[...]

To clarify -- the Mod mentioned that players' positions on the circle would be predetermined, the Mod named power roles that may or may not appear, or both? Assuming something other than the former, was Zone's claimed role among those roles?

I found it: This comes from the theme test market thread:

I'm still trying to figure it out myself, to be honest Randomizing really does make it swingy with the setup I have in mind, so I'll probably have to make the positions scripted.

[AshMC1984]

I was originally thinking about voting for you before, y'know. I discarded it because you're my neighbor, but now I've gotten over it with the extra evidence on the table.

Being neighbors is not a reason to not vote someone. Scum are

someone's

neighbor. Not looking good ZH....

Hmm, you're voting for someone who could implicate you as having a gun. Interesting.

Good point. I am already suspicious of ZH.

In facxt, and reading post 230, I see it as really scum. Look, Flurry has post twice in all the game, and the second post is that. It seems lke a noob -scum a lot. It's the impression that I get.

Funniest post ever!

[AshMC1984]

I'll be V/LA for 2 days. Posting this in all my games.

[AshMC1984]

Mod: Please replace me. I can't seem to find a balance between my new job and MS yet. Apologies fellow players - I know replacements are annoying but it would if I made one brief post every few days with very little analysis, which is all I would currently have time for.