Mini 181 - 80's Music Mafia: Game Over Already :(

[CaptainBlicero]

vote: The_Machine86

for the egregious offense of having both a number and an underscore in his username. One or the other is maybe okay, but both combined are unforgivable.

[CaptainBlicero]

I hate it when he does it, but I'm inclined to mimic Dragon Phoenix here. That sentence just looks all off. I'm not going to vote on it though.

fos: talitha

Wow. Let me see how many classic mafia blunders you have made in this post.
Saying a post is "scummy" or "off" without saying why.... check
Calling another player suspicious but not voting for them... check
Using an FOS early on in Day One.... check
Trying to cover your behavior by claiming an experienced player does it... check

unvote: The_Machine

vote: mepmuff

[CaptainBlicero]

I thought it was interesting that Talitha chose to banter with mepmuff after post 25 instead of calling him out on his wishy-washy FOS. That makes me think they may be in

cahoots

.

Talitha, mepmuff - Comments?

[CaptainBlicero]

Talitha, what are you talking about?

Fuldu claimed you seemed to be "on edge," but he's voting mepmuff, not you. Nothing else in his post can even be remotely construed as an unjustified emotive comment. Who are you talking to? What should we stop doing?

I'm at a loss.

[CaptainBlicero]

Appearantly I'm very scummy, but can someone please take the time to talk about it properly instead of ignoring my response (captain) or just saying it confirms my scumminess (fuldu)?

Okay. Please don't think I'm ignoring you -- I just find your defense utterly unconvincing. But, since you asked for it....

Saying a post is "scummy" or "off" without saying why.... check

You never have gut feelings? You'd rather I'd stay quiet?

Never said that. You said Talitha's sentence seemed a little "off." Why? What about her sentence gave you this gut feeling?

I myself have a gut feeling. It says that you are scum scum scummy scum. But, unlike you, I can point to exactly what led me to have this feeling.

Calling another player suspicious but not voting for them... check

Explained before you posted this. I didn't want to vote because it was only a gut feeling.

Classic mafia blunder. If your "gut feeling" wasn't strong enough to warrant a vote on DAY ONE, then it ain't much of a gut feeling, now is it? Mafia always always always are reluctant to put votes on other players because they don't want to a) put a vote on a scum buddy or b) put a vote on a non-scum buddy who is most likely innocent.

Using an FOS early on in Day One.... check

Again, you'd rather have me stay quiet? Or you'd rather see unfounded votes?

Unfounded votes? Oh, of course you would never do anything like that! Oh wait, let me check Page 1:

random vote: CaptainBlicero

Trying to cover your behavior by claiming an experienced player does it... check

Never seen that being pulled. DP votes on gut feeling, I didn't so it's not even my behaviour we're talking about here. And once again, that was included to keep the post a bit light hearted.

Again, DP VOTES based on gut feeling. You use FOS's and make vague claims about sentences sounding "off." That's why DP is a lot more difficult to nail when he's scum.

Mep, I will keep voting for you until you are lynched.

Now, for all of you following along at home, let's play SPOT THE CONTRADICTIONS:
Contradiction #1 - Mep says that there's nothing wrong with voting based on gut feeling. Yet he refrained from voting Talitha because all he had on her was a "gut feeling," and apparently that isn't good enough to vote on.

Contradiction #2 - Mep says he doesn't want to cast "unfounded votes." Yet he random-voted the dear ol' Captain just a few posts back. If that ain't an "unfounded vote," then what is?

All right, kiddies! See if you can spot some more! They are EVERYWHERE!

[CaptainBlicero]

Appearantly I'm very scummy, but can someone please take the time to talk about it properly instead of ignoring my response (captain) or just saying it confirms my scumminess (fuldu)?

Okay. Please don't think I'm ignoring you -- I just find your defense utterly unconvincing. But, since you asked for it....

Saying a post is "scummy" or "off" without saying why.... check

You never have gut feelings? You'd rather I'd stay quiet?

Never said that. You said Talitha's sentence seemed a little "off." Why? What about her sentence gave you this gut feeling?

I myself have a gut feeling. It says that you are scum scum scummy scum. But, unlike you, I can point to exactly what led me to have this feeling.

Calling another player suspicious but not voting for them... check

Explained before you posted this. I didn't want to vote because it was only a gut feeling.

Classic mafia blunder. If your "gut feeling" wasn't strong enough to warrant a vote on DAY ONE, then it ain't much of a gut feeling, now is it? Mafia always always always are reluctant to put votes on other players because they don't want to a) put a vote on a scum buddy or b) put a vote on a non-scum buddy who is most likely innocent.

Using an FOS early on in Day One.... check

Again, you'd rather have me stay quiet? Or you'd rather see unfounded votes?

Unfounded votes? Oh, of course you would never do anything like that! Oh wait, let me check Page 1:

random vote: CaptainBlicero

Trying to cover your behavior by claiming an experienced player does it... check

Never seen that being pulled. DP votes on gut feeling, I didn't so it's not even my behaviour we're talking about here. And once again, that was included to keep the post a bit light hearted.

Again, DP VOTES based on gut feeling. You use FOS's and make vague claims about sentences sounding "off." That's why DP is a lot more difficult to nail when he's scum.

Mep, I will keep voting for you until you are lynched.

Now, for all of you following along at home, let's play SPOT THE CONTRADICTIONS:
Contradiction #1 - Mep says that there's nothing wrong with voting based on gut feeling. Yet he refrained from voting Talitha because all he had on her was a "gut feeling," and apparently that isn't good enough to vote on.

Contradiction #2 - Mep says he doesn't want to cast "unfounded votes." Yet he random-voted the dear ol' Captain just a few posts back. If that ain't an "unfounded vote," then what is?

All right, kiddies! See if you can spot some more! They are EVERYWHERE!

[CaptainBlicero]

Astro, you are so full of it.

Timeline:
Post #36:

I thought it was interesting that Talitha chose to banter with mepmuff after post 25 instead of calling him out on his wishy-washy FOS. That makes me think they may be in cahoots.

Talitha, mepmuff - Comments?

Post #49:

After reading through things, I must say mepmuff's reactions seem overly defensive, but it's not unthinkable that a townie under pressure would respond in a similar way.

What stands out is how easily Tally slipped away with her "I over-reacted"-explanation. Quag makes a good point in his post #33, I'll throw in a FOS: Talitha just so she doesn't think we're not watching her

Post #58: Astonaut votes for me, quoting post #36 as his justification.

So, Asto.... do you want to explain that one? When I posted "Hey, Tally and mep are probably in cahoots," you posted: "I find mep to be overly defensive and Tally to be suspicious enough for an FOS." Then, one page later, you post: "Captain must be scum for suggesting Tally and mep are suspicious." Que?

Right now we have two players who are FOS'ing Talitha and voting for El Capitan. Anyone else find that interesting?

My so-called "conspiracy theory" just added another target.

[CaptainBlicero]

Astro, you are so full of it.

Timeline:
Post #36:

I thought it was interesting that Talitha chose to banter with mepmuff after post 25 instead of calling him out on his wishy-washy FOS. That makes me think they may be in cahoots.

Talitha, mepmuff - Comments?

Post #49:

After reading through things, I must say mepmuff's reactions seem overly defensive, but it's not unthinkable that a townie under pressure would respond in a similar way.

What stands out is how easily Tally slipped away with her "I over-reacted"-explanation. Quag makes a good point in his post #33, I'll throw in a FOS: Talitha just so she doesn't think we're not watching her

Post #58: Astonaut votes for me, quoting post #36 as his justification.

So, Asto.... do you want to explain that one? When I posted "Hey, Tally and mep are probably in cahoots," you posted: "I find mep to be overly defensive and Tally to be suspicious enough for an FOS." Then, one page later, you post: "Captain must be scum for suggesting Tally and mep are suspicious." Que?

Right now we have two players who are FOS'ing Talitha and voting for El Capitan. Anyone else find that interesting?

My so-called "conspiracy theory" just added another target.

[CaptainBlicero]

CB: If you're going to paraphrase, be more precise. He didn't say he's voting you for suggesting tally and me are suspicious.

Why do you feel you need to speak up for Astronaut? Can't he speak for himself?

[CaptainBlicero]

I really apologize for monopolizing the thread here, but I am convinced that we have exposed an entire three person mafia group -- mepmuff, Astro, and Talitha. I wish more people were participating so I wouldn't have to type so much, but here goes.

I don't buy CB's argument that mafia (quote) "always always always are reluctant to put votes on other players". In my experience it's often town who sit back and don't vote. Because they are clueless and unsure of themselves.

Talitha is blurring an important distinction here. She is quite correct that townies often sit back and do not vote because they are clueless and unsure. The difference is this: Mafia will actively accuse other players of "suspicious" behavior, often with little or no reasoning, but then do not VOTE based on those suspicions.

Let's say I find Player X to be suspicious. If I am a townie with no extra information, there is no reason for me NOT to vote for Player X. After all, X is just as likely to be scum as any other player in the game. On Day One, a townie has nothing to go on at all, so whoever says something slightly suspicious is most likely to be scum.

However, if I am scum, then I am in a dilemma. Either a) Player X is a member of my mafia family, or b) Player X is not a mafia buddy. In case a), I will be reluctant to put a vote on Player X, since I do not want to get my scum buddy lynched. In case b), I am STILL reluctant to put a vote on Player X, because I know that X is innocent, and helping lynch an innocent player will make me look suspicious.

This is why mafia players will say: "I find Player X to be suspicious," but will not actually VOTE. They try to play both sides so that their ass is covered either way. If the town turns on X and lynches him, the scum can easily join the bandwagon and say: "See? I SAID that guy was suspicious!!" if X is guilty, or "Man, I thought X was a little suspicious, but you bloodthirsty crazies didn't need to go LYNCHING him for it!!" if X turns up innocent.

Note the following three posts:

I hate it when he does it, but I'm inclined to mimic Dragon Phoenix here. That sentence just looks all off. I'm not going to vote on it though.

fos: talitha

This is what got me on mepmuff's case. He plays both sides by saying Talitha is "suspicious," yet not voting for her. When I call him on it, he says: "Would you rather I stayed quiet?" Fuldu thought this was kind of weird, and so do I. I think it indicates that mep is deliberately trying to fly under the radar. He's not trying to catch scum... he's just trying to avoid being caught himself.

After reading through things, I must say mepmuff's reactions seem overly defensive, but it's not unthinkable that a townie under pressure would respond in a similar way.

What stands out is how easily Tally slipped away with her "I over-reacted"-explanation. Quag makes a good point in his post #33, I'll throw in a FOS: Talitha just so she doesn't think we're not watching her

This got me looking at Astro. He defends mep, but in a "maybe I'm defending him, maybe I'm not" type way. (And this is kind of telling: If Astro is a cluelss townie, why would he stick his neck out for a player he finds to be "overly defensive"?) He then says Talitha is suspicious in a similarly wishy-washy manner.

I'd easily vote for Astronaut if I wasn't so firmly attached to my Quagmire vote.

And here's a fine specimen from Talitha. She'd definitely vote for Astronaut, except, well.... she'd rather not.
--------------------------------------------------------
Do these three posts condemn all three players to be scum? Of course not. However, look at the interplay between the three of them throughout this thread.
After Tal and mep banter a bit about his non-vote, I post that they may be in...

cahoots

(I really like that word). Astro then posts, managing to straddle the fence on both mep and Talitha. Mep clarifies that his comment about silence was NOT meant as an accusation against me (at this point I'm wondering... if random voting is a "silly habit" and he's not trying to accuse me of anything, why is his vote still on me). Astro then jumps in with his post 58, which makes (as far as I can tell), the following case against me:
1) He agrees with Talitha about Mafia being reluctant to cast their votes.
-Rebuttal: see my clarification above
2) He says, and I quote, because it is so insane:

Besides, talking about "typical scum behaviour" is extremely scummy to me."

-Rebuttal: If TALKING about how the mafia tend to act is scummy, how the HELL are we supposed to find out who the mafia are???? Just sit here quietly and hope they accidentally nightkill each other?
3) He says that the attack on mep was over the top.
-Rebuttal: Okay, I concede this point. My attack on mep was pretty forceful. However, this town still needs a kick in the ass, and right now I'm the only one kicking. Plus, if I wasn't so sure about mep, I wouldn't be so aggressive.
4) He calls my "cahoots" post a "conspiracy theory" (even though he made no comment on it when he first read it)
-Rebuttal: The only difference between mafia and townie is that mafia are working together. Trying to spot players who seem to be working together is how you find the Mafia. Again, if we don't try to analyze who is acting like a mafia player would act, HOW DO WE CATCH THE MAFIA?

At this point, I call him out, and mepmuff steps in to defend him. Mep accuses me of "imprecise paraphrasing" and claims:

He didn't say he's voting you for suggesting tally and me are suspicious.

This is Clintonian hair-splitting. Astro clearly stated that he found my claim that you two are possibly in cahoots to be suspicious. He himself clarifies:

A townie isn't likely to have enough info to make such accusations, therefore he shouldn't. I see this as a move scum would do in an attempt to narrow down town's lynch candidates to these two.

I'll let the rest of you judge whether my paraphrasing is accurate or scummily biased.

Right now, I would stake my mafia reputation (what little of it there is left) on the fact that Mep, Astro, and Talitha are a mafia family. I am most sure about mep and Astro, and if they both turn out to be scum, then Talitha is clearly the best choice for the remaining member.

Well, there's my crazy conspiracy theory. I think we should definitely lynch one of those three today. If he/she turns up innocent, I will apologize quite publicly tomorrow. If he/she turns up guilty, then I would hope we have a town vigilante who knows what to do.

[CaptainBlicero]

What, no counter-attack? How can I learn to banter if you don't give me any material?

[CaptainBlicero]

It's not so much that you aren't on very often, it's that the few times when you are on, you don't really add anything of substance. Also, weren't college apps due sometime in January?

[CaptainBlicero]

... and the voting has stagnated completely.

Fuldu? Machine? Care to join the Page 4 crowd?

[CaptainBlicero]

I'm leaning towards looking past Quag and Tally to find our scum.

How about mepmuff?

[CaptainBlicero]

Yeah, why on Earth did people unvote mepmuff?

roleclaim coming within a few hours if I'm still on three votes than.

Since there's not even one post since my last, I'm not going to claim just yet. Nighty night all.

Well, here's what you've all been waiting for:

no claim as of yet

Can anyone explain why a pro-town role would act like this? In my experience, once a pro-town player decides to role-claim, they just role claim. After all, they don't have to plan, or strategize, or anything. They don't have to wait a few hours, or delay claiming, because they don't have to make anything up.

[CaptainBlicero]

Well, because it's not a good idea to claim on day 1? Unless you are in imminent danger of death?

You are correct that it is, in general, not a good idea to claim on Day One. I completely agree with you. However, that was not my point.

My point was this: Why would a pro-town role DECIDE to claim, and then not do it? Mepmuff didn't say "I won't claim on Day One... it's bad for the town." He didn't say: "I refuse to be claim based on the Captain's delusional paranoid ramblings!" He didn't say: "I will claim, but only if there's four votes on me."

What he said was this:

roleclaim coming within a few hours if I'm still on three votes than.

Yet, he did not do so. Methinks that he still hasn't thought up of a good claim.

For a pro-town player, role-claiming is a either-or proposition. Either you claim, or you don't. It's the easiest thing in the world to just say what role you got in your PM.
For mafia, it is a much more involved effort to come up with a role that is not likely to be in the game, but that is still believable. It is very difficult to do.

Is mepmuff's behavior more consistent with that of a pro-town player, who will avoid claiming as long as possible, but will then promptly reveal his role when he decides it is necessary? Or is it more consistent with that of a mafioso, who will promise a claim in hopes that the bandwaggoners lose interest, but will then stall and waffle in an attempt to come up with something believable?

I know where I stand on that question.

[CaptainBlicero]

Alpha -- If indeed you are the cop, I wish you hadn't exposed yourself.

Again - mep claims to be a cop who has a "guilty" result on someone, yet look at his voting pattern. Does it seem consistent with his claim?

Also - Would a pro-town cop role one vote away from a lynch NOT name the player he had found guilty?

Score one for the Captain's crazy conspiracy theory!

[CaptainBlicero]

Ah, I missed that part.

Mep - just for kicks, what "song" are you related to?

[CaptainBlicero]

I only count 4 on him. Besides, talking at twilight is perfectly acceptable.

What - are you afraid your scum buddy will spill some secrets before he's lynched?

[CaptainBlicero]

Ah, it's good to know that after a six-month hiatus, my scum-sense is still completely backwards. I was SO SURE about mepmuff. Also, I had Quag pegged as a cop. Why else was he so gung-ho about Talitha? Bah, I should've gone with the safe play and killed Astro.

Well, my first role as a Serial Killer (!), and boy was it fun!