Mini 181 - 80's Music Mafia: Game Over Already :(

[Fuldu]

I've been thinking, but it's hard to come up with good explanations of three Night One kills in a mini. It happened in my Palindromafia, but one of those deaths was a hider who hid with scum -- clearly not the case here. Even three SKs seems like an ugly scenario and changing any of those SKs to a mafia group just makes it worse. I'd like to dismiss a Night One vig kill, but I guess that's probably the most likely situation. If anyone has a better theory, I'd like to hear it.

vote: mepmuff

[Fuldu]

Sorry, Tal, even before Quagmire posted his vote, I was thinking you seemed on edge in a few of those posts. I like my vote where it is (CB's arguments and mepmuff's responses to them have shifted it from arbitrary to deliberate), but if I were forced to choose between you and Quag, I'm afraid I'd have to vote for you.

[Fuldu]

Classic mafia blunder. If your "gut feeling" wasn't strong enough to warrant a vote on DAY ONE, then it ain't much of a gut feeling, now is it? Mafia always always always are reluctant to put votes on other players because they don't want to a) put a vote on a scum buddy or b) put a vote on a non-scum buddy who is most likely innocent.

This is the aspect of CB's argument that I find most compelling, mepmuff. As for what about your response I found the most troubling, it was largely the attitude that you raised in grumbling about how silence is the death of mafia games and how banter is fun and CB ought to try it. It's not simply you telling him that he's wrong; it's actually more in the direction of you accusing him of conspiring to ruin the game, though not that direct or severe. In my experience, scum are more likely to overact to accusations and respond with wholly disproportionate arguments and attitude than town.

[Fuldu]

Classic mafia blunder. If your "gut feeling" wasn't strong enough to warrant a vote on DAY ONE, then it ain't much of a gut feeling, now is it? Mafia always always always are reluctant to put votes on other players because they don't want to a) put a vote on a scum buddy or b) put a vote on a non-scum buddy who is most likely innocent.

This is the aspect of CB's argument that I find most compelling, mepmuff. As for what about your response I found the most troubling, it was largely the attitude that you raised in grumbling about how silence is the death of mafia games and how banter is fun and CB ought to try it. It's not simply you telling him that he's wrong; it's actually more in the direction of you accusing him of conspiring to ruin the game, though not that direct or severe. In my experience, scum are more likely to overact to accusations and respond with wholly disproportionate arguments and attitude than town.

[Fuldu]

I'm still here, CB. I think your theory is, well, pretty optimistic might be the nice way of putting it. I'd say the chances are high that one of the three of them is scum (just playing the odds), and maybe two (because the connections you're describing aren't wrong, just a little overzealous). My vote is and will remain for the time being on mepmuff, because I find his behavior scummy in-and-of-itself. If/when mepmuff is lynched or otherwise killed, if he turns out to be scum, then I'll rethink my position on these linkages to Astronaut and Talitha.

That said, I think this:

4) He calls my "cahoots" post a "conspiracy theory" (even though he made no comment on it when he first read it)
-Rebuttal: The only difference between mafia and townie is that mafia are working together. Trying to spot players who seem to be working together is how you find the Mafia. Again, if we don't try to analyze who is acting like a mafia player would act, HOW DO WE CATCH THE MAFIA?

...is a poorly reasoned argument. Under this logic, mepmuff might just as reasonably claim that you and I appear to working together and, therefore must be mafia. The fact that two players have chosen to draw the same conclusions from the available facts just speaks to similarity of thought processes and play-style, not necessarily working together. I recognize that this was not the only argument you made regarding the three of them, but it was the only one I feel to be fundamentally wrong instead of just pushing your case a little too hard.

[Fuldu]

I can't apologize that I'm still happy with my vote, but I'll admit I really don't know what to say about the Talitha/Quagmire debacle. On the one hand, I've already said that I saw the defensive behavior Quagmire has referenced several times already, but on the other, I feel like he's deliberately overstating her flip-flop.

I think it's clear that she's equally confident that Quagmire and Astronaut are scum and is perfectly happy to vote for either. Saying that she's saying she doesn't want to vote for Astronaut, then does and suddenly doesn't think Quagmire is evil is a complete misrepresentation. It's obvious to me that she thinks they're both evil and is trying to find whichever of the two bandwagons she can get the rest of us on. I'm not convinced that she's right in either case or that she's pro-town, but I think her changing votes isn't in any way representative of her changing her views. The argument Quagmire is making on that point

is

crap, whether he means for it to be or not.

[Fuldu]

You do realize how suspicous this is going to look if he does turn out to be good.

Actually, no. Why is

this

situation going to look more suspicious regarding, well, whoever you're talking to than any other situation in which town lynches town (in the event that that's what happens)? They've made reasonable arguments about Quagmire and explained their votes. They might be wrong - I happen to still like my mepmuff vote, but that doesn't mean I'm certain I'd be lynching scum - but the bandwagon doesn't strike me as particularly suspicious.

To be honest, your above-quoted line is the first thing out of this entire Talitha/Quagmire exchange that has struck me as especially scummy. It seems like you know Quagmire is going to come up town and are prepping to go after Talitha or Jaguar (it still isn't clear to me who you're talking to) tomorrow for their suspicious behavior in lynching him.

[Fuldu]

I think it's a shame now that quag didnt join the wagon on me. That would have left me with a nice place for my vote. But since him not voting me actually makes him look quite good, I'm going to stick up for quag now in the voting department as well.

With reasoning like this available to vote against, I still can't understand why anyone would prefer to have their vote on Talitha

or

Quagmire. But by my count we're at:

3 Quagmire
3 Talitha
2 mepmuff
1 The_Machine86

...so some of us (and regretably probably those of us among the bottom two bandwagons) are going to have to move our votes. I still don't feel like I've seen anything so strong as to dissuade me from believing that mepmuff is the best candidate here, but I'll take another look at Quagmire and Talitha and see if I can come to a decision about who'll come in second in my disesteem.

[Fuldu]

Sorry for the repost..I haven't posted much of substance because when I can Talk on here, I have had little time to. Not all college applications were due In Jan. Pitt is still accepting right now.
Now, also, I am relatively inexperienced, having played 2 or 3 games now,
Given that, I think that much of this banter and accusation about
Think that much of this banter about saying your suspicions but not voting
Doesn't help your case too much.
Only when you outright vote for someone can you back your choices up,
Coincedentally, this may make you look more scummy.

-Alpha

I disagree with the Captain that it's only four votes, I think we've lynched mepmuff. But, on the off chance that I'm wrong, I'm going to go for the scum I'm now confident of. I don't see anything in the rules about modkills for twilight talk, I think there are only a couple of mods who do that.

unvote: mepmuff; vote: AlphaInsidious

Take a look at the above post. Note the odd capitalization and the unusual line breaks. Now look at it again with some bolding added.

S

orry for the repost..I haven't posted much of substance because when I can

T

alk on here, I have had little time to. Not all college applications were due

I

n Jan. Pitt is still accepting right now.

N

ow, also, I am relatively inexperienced, having played 2 or 3 games now,

G

iven that, I think that much of this banter and accusation about
Think that much of this banter about saying your suspicions but not voting

D

oesn't help your case too much.

O

nly when you outright vote for someone can you back your choices up,

C

oincedentally, this may make you look more scummy.

-Alpha

Alpha, for future reference, if you've claimed Sting - doc, even as just a hint, you can't come back later and say you're actually a cop. Just because nobody mentioned it doesn't mean nobody saw it.

[Fuldu]

Was the Vigilante required to kill? Because if so, then yes, there was a problem with the design. Otherwise, I think the fault lies with The_Machine, not with you, MGIA.

[Fuldu]

Alpha, what was that role hint about? Were you requesting doc protection? I mean, I had figured Sting from The Police was going to be a cop, despite what I said about the hint, especially after mepmuff's role was role cop, but saying "Sting, doc" was asking for all kinds of hurt.

Also, if I, as scum, was the only person who even noticed the hint (was I? No one else said anything), that's a prime example of why hints like that are bad ideas. Right up until I was able to "catch you in a lie," you were my primary target for Night 2 kill. I ended up talking about whether I'd rather go after someone else and hope the vig took care of you, but I'm glad my partners convinced me otherwise.

[Fuldu]

I have to say that I love that

all

of the killing parties survived to endgame.