(Nah, I'm kidding.)
Mini 857 Disney Movie Mafia 2 - The Classics (Roll Credits)
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This:
Then this:Monkey wrote:LOL, do be honest I didn't even see your vote until after I voted. But I usually vote for whoever stands out in the RVS.
So in order for Monkey to be town, we'd have to believe the following:Monkey wrote:I did read some, but usually the RVS isn't meant to be taken seriously. Hence the term random votes.
1. He usually votes for whatever stands out in the RVS, but this time he didn't, because apparently "it's not supposed to be taken seriously." Even though that's what he usually does! XD
2. He read only the very beginning of the RVS, but not enough to see Starbuck's vote. Yeah...
Unvote(L-3)
Vote Monkey-
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Monkey said that he usually votes for whatever stands out in the RVS. This time he didn't read the RVS for some reason, or only read "some" of it.Brandi wrote:Also, Crazy's first point against Monkey makes no sense whatsoever. I can't fathom what he's trying to say with that sentence.
But anyway, Kmd's "LIAR" thing is enough to lynch him right there.-
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Lol, but by now everyone knows you get just as much attention, if not more, if you don't vote!Kmd4390 wrote:
He doesn't connect himself to anyone or bring attention to his vote.Crazy wrote: What motivation does Gorrad-scum have for not randomvoting?
It wasn't much of a scum tactic a long time ago... under the current meta it's completely useless.-
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Okay, I read the thread.
I still think Monkey is scummy for what I said earlier about the RVS. And yes, I do find it unlikely that Monkey would read some of the RVS but not enough to see Starbuck's vote. This is mainly because Starbuck's vote was right after Kmd's first post, and I can't imagine that anyone wouldn't focus on Kmd's post, since he was one that was actually saying stuff during the RVS.
The other main point against him is his protest. At least he stopped it, though; if he didn't I'd expect him to be an obv-lynch.
And I don't really like his vote jumping to SOG and Brandi. Both of those votes seemed for rather petty reasons.
I have to admit, though, that Starbuck's case on him is horrible. She just keeps citing his "overreaction" and his "appeals to emotion," neither of those being valid scum-tells.
(And Starbuck, you are being way more condescending than Monkey is.)
@chamber - What's the purpose of your fuzzylightning vote?-
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Being anti-town even when you're always anti-town is anti-town. But being anti-town when you're always anti-town is not scummy; it's a null-tell.Brandi wrote:Example: Self voting is a scum tell.
Player A always self votes.
Self voting is STILL a scumtell.
The end.
People who play like scum on purpose and to try to say "oh it's how I play, so you can't point fingers at me!" are retarded and I have no sympathy for them~ These types of people always hurt the town.
Our job is not to discourage anti-town play; it's to catch scum.
I really don't like stuff like this, either. SC is basically saying, "This is what you should have done. You didn't do it. Thus, you are scum."SC wrote:I don't give a darn about your RVS actions, but as for leaving an argument for it being crap, that's not how you handle such a situation. You explain why it is crap. If you're good at doing that, then the tide changes in your favor. BUT NO. You had to go cry in a corner. So that bit, yes, makes you scum.
I do think Monkey is scummy in some ways, true. I just don't care for the ways that SC and Starbuck are going about it.-
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I wasn't looking at your whole attack, just that post, really. I gotta look more into what you've said before.SC wrote:You're overgeneralizing my attack. There ARE things that are scummy if you don't do them. I think you're also focusing on the wrong part of my statement. That he got up and left is scummier to me than if he had merely ignored it.-
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Starbuck's scum-hunting isn't even remotely sensible. My scumdar screams at her nearly as much as it screams at Monkey.SC wrote:Right now I think the towniest player is Starbuck with her very sensible scumhunting, and semioldguy is a good candidate for second place.
I'll be back later; I got homework to do.-
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You're attacking Monkey for his over-reaction and his appeal to emotion, mainly, which are two of the worst "scum-tells" ever.Starbuck wrote:
What's not sensible about my scumhunting?Crazy wrote:
Starbuck's scum-hunting isn't even remotely sensible. My scumdar screams at her nearly as much as it screams at Monkey.SC wrote:Right now I think the towniest player is Starbuck with her very sensible scumhunting, and semioldguy is a good candidate for second place.
I'll be back later; I got homework to do.
You also attack chamber merely for depending Monkey, although isn't it plausible he just disagrees with you?-
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I'm a little behind, and for the past day or two I've only been answering questions that have been asked of me.Starbuck wrote:Have you been following the game at all to see the other reasons why I haven't moved my vote from Monkey? It's quite apparent that you have not.
And even if you added reasons later on, that still would be mostly irrelevant, since your original case on Monkey was stuffed full of crap.-
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And about chamber defending Monkey, I can't see what's so wrong with that. I defend people all the time in my games if I don't like the case.
And there are quite a few things to not like about the Monkey case. There are some things I like, but those are mostly my own reasons, and not why you find him so scummy.-
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Yah, "reactions." That's what I was talking about when I said your case was full of crap. Reactions don't mean anything; townies over-react all the time. More than scum, probably.Starbuck wrote:Well, you might wanna go back and re-read because my original vote on Monkey was for a reaction, which he gave in abundance. His continued actions, reactions, and overall scumminess since then have given me reason to not move my vote from him.
You should really re-read before you start throwing around baseless accusations.-
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Okay, correct me if I'm wrong. The main proponents to your Monkey case are the following:Starbuck wrote:I'm not saying that you have to like my case on Monkey. You keep saying over and over again that it's full of crap, but you have not stated why it is or what part of it is, only that it's crap.
1. He overreacted to your original vote on him, and then proceeded to use appeals to emotion.
2. He threatened to stop posting any content until the wagon on himself had dissipated.
I strongly believe that #1 is not a scum-tell. Townies over-react all the time, really.
Also, if all you were doing was fishing for a reaction, then how can you blame Monkey for REACTING and saying that your vote had no justification?
#2 is a stronger point, and if he pursued that philosophy then I'd be happy to lynch him. But he didn't pursue that, so I don't see the problem.
I always said your case was full of crap.Starbuck wrote:So now that I repeat myself again, you FINALLY realize why you think my case is crap? I really don't buy it.-
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If you're talking to me, look at my iso #13.chamber wrote:Also, I just reread you in iso, and I seriously want a full case, in your words, against monkey.
He did come back after he was prodded, though.Starbuck wrote:He DID PURSUE THAT. I wish you would re-read so you would see this!
Crazy, he didn't just stop posting. He left the game, and was posting in his other games and not posting in our thread. We finally got to the 72 hour prod rule, and we asked him either to participate or be replaced.-
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Actually, active lurking refers to posting regularly but not contributing much useful information.Starbuck wrote:But he shouldn't have had to be prodded. He was being active in his other games, but not this one. That's called active lurking.
But anyway, yeah, you're right, he shouldn't have had to be prodded. But after 3 days, the prod must have made him come to his senses because then he started posting regularly again.
Which means his leaving was just a hissy fit due to frustration, because he later realized it wasn't a very good idea. I can forgive an emotional outburst for a little while. Only if he had continually not posted indefinitely (or for a significant time period, at least), then that would show that it was more than a hissy fit, and it would be scummy.-
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Yeah, appeal to emotion isn't a good thing, but it's not a scum-tell.SC wrote:Whether overreacting is a scumtell I'll leave up to debate, but appealing to ___(fill in the blank)___, as far as I am aware, has never been pro-town. You're basically saying "But I'm this!" or "But this is going on!" to get people to listen to you. People will listen to scumhunting and common sense.
Fair enough.SC wrote:Uhh... Starbuck has accused chamber of white knighting MonkeyMan576, which is more than merely defending him—he's defending him FOR him.
I'm voting Monkey. In my mind, they're about equal scumminess at this point. They're probably notSC wrote:FoS: Crazy for this post being tantamount to chainsaw defending MonkeyMan576.bothscum (unless if one's from another faction, or something), but I'm pretty sure one of them is. I agree with Starbuck that Monkey is scummy; I just don't agree on the reasons that he's scummy. Personally, I find Monkey's votes on Brandi and SOG scummier than anything Starbuck mentioned about him.
And I realized you said "tantamount," but I could pin the chainsaw defense thing on you regarding Starbuck.-
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Buddying?fuzzylightning wrote:Vote: Chamber: With this claim from Monkey, and his constant defending of Monkey, I see this as possible buddying.
To me it seemed that chamber was more interested in attacking Starbuck/SOG/you rather than defending Monkey. Notice how he kept asking for a case on Monkey?
What in particular made you think it was buddying of all things?-
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Pixar is owned by Disney and there were Pixar characters in the first game, and Toy Story is most definitely a "classic." It came out in 1995, which was in a time period that Disney was still making its own traditionally-animated classics.
Besides that, if Starbuck isn't town, that's the most brilliant fake-claim I've ever heard. Buzz Lightyear is the definition of a Vanilla Townie.
Unvote
That's the scummiest thing you've said the whole game. You've claimed. Keeping information back now is useless. Besides, it will help me discern whether you're fake-claiming.Monkey wrote:I think I've given enough role info at this point. It should be rather obvious why he's a watcher, although not so obvious why he's a conditional watcher.-
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Between Starbuck's fakeclaim and me recently seeing Toy Story & Toy Story 2 in 3D, I can't get this scene out of my head:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy-1xI1nbao-
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One post as a response to Starbuck's big post. One post for everybody else.
Starbuck's post:
If I wanted to get you lynched, I could do so without making myself look like scum with you.Starbuck wrote: So why is this an absolute?
He could easily be bluffing.
I don't think you're scum. I stand by that.
I suppose I have to explain my side. I merely interchanged the words "claimed" and "fakeclaimed."SC wrote:Quoted for truth. How else does Crazy know that Starbuck's claim is fake?
That shouldn't be hard to believe, but for the life of me I can't help you about Starbuck's thing; that's crazy!
Yank wrote:It will give us info, regardless of what you flip. Even if you flip Townie, I think Crazy's post could still be odd.
When Monkey first posted that, I didn't think he'd come back. Like I said, if Monkey did leave permanently, he would have been an obvious lynch as far as I was concerned.Starbuck wrote: He tries to justify Monkey leaving in this post by saying that Monkey came back after he was prodded. My issue with all of this is that Monkey shouldn't have left the game in the first place and should not have needed to be prodded when he was being active elsewhere on the site. He admits that I'm right about this via this post, but then says he can forgive Monkey's outburst when originally (look at the above quote), he didn't feel that way.
I don't recall being anti-town. I believe the post was in reference to Gorrad. Being anti-town is not a good thing, but no, it's not scummy by itself.Starbuck wrote:I really don't like this because Crazy is most definitely being anti-town, and it seems like he's using the reasoning as an excuse to be anti-town.
That's probably true, but I don't find that as a big issue unless if Monkey flips scum. And lynching Chamber because you think Monkey is scum is stupid.Starbuck wrote:Another thing that bothers me about Crazy is that he does not see anything wrong with how Chamber has been answering for Monkey and white-knighting him. I think it was StrangerCoug that put it best. Chamber has been defending Monkey for Monkey instead of Monkey defending himself.
Actually, I first said what I didn't like about your Monkey case in Post #298, which was before both of the 2 posts you cited.Starbuck wrote:I'm also bothered by the fact that he kept calls my case crap via this post, and doesn't seem to remember why it's crap until I make mention of what my case on Monkey was via this post.
You then said that there were other reasons... and I said I didn't know about those. When I looked back, I discovered that there were no reasons that I didn't know about already.
Yup. I'm not lynching a claimed watcher Day 1. And I'm not lynching someone with a claim as good as yours.Starbuck wrote:After Monkey claims, Crazy immediately unvotes Monkey and votes me. He then immediately unvotes me after I claim. Let's take a look at this post
BECAUSE I DO NOT THINK YOU ARE FAKECLAIMING! Notice I corrected myself in the following pots!Starbuck wrote:So if he thinks I'm fakeclaiming, why isn't he voting for me?-
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Lol, it looks like I can't even copy & paste correctly.
Everyone else:
OMG!!!!!!!Starbuck wrote:I think you just slipped there, Crazy.
Anybody else get the incredible irony in that statement. If I didn't know I was town, I'd seriously think me & Starbuck were scum together just from that!
I can't blame this wagon, seriously.
You didn't complain about that when I used a flavor argument to defend your lynch in the first game.Kmd wrote: Crazy, why haven't you learned about flavor arguments yet? I know that Llama as a player HATES flavor arguments, so I doubt he'd make it that easy for us. Hell, I'll put up an argument opposing yours just to show that it's possible. Buzz Lightyear comes in as a new toy and nobody likes him right away. He's initially a bit of an antagonist (spelling?), so why not make him scum? It could go either way.
Besides, this isn't about determining alignment from flavor; it's about determingrole. In the last game, about everyone (maybe not Panzer) had a perfectly fitting flavor for their role.
Aww, it was just getting really interesting, and I was just about to peg you as scum. Crap.fuzzy wrote:Mod: May I please be replaced in this game, I haven't been able to get a feel for the game with what's gone on, I apologize if I have wasted people's time
"Could still be odd." Gotta love phrasing like that. It might be, but it might not be, but if it is, it's only "odd."Yank wrote:It will give us info, regardless of what you flip. Even if you flip Townie, I think Crazy's post could still be odd.
If you think it's scummy, say it's scummy! And tell mewhyit's scummy, please.
If I wanted to get you lynched, I could do so without making myself look like scum with you.Starbuck wrote: So why is this an absolute?
He could easily be bluffing.
I don't think you're scum. I stand by that.
I suppose I have to explain my side. I merely interchanged the words "claimed" and "fakeclaimed."SC wrote:Quoted for truth. How else does Crazy know that Starbuck's claim is fake?
That shouldn't be hard to believe, but for the life of me I can't help you about Starbuck's thing; that's crazy!
Tell me what "odd" means, please.Yank wrote:It will give us info, regardless of what you flip. Even if you flip Townie, I think Crazy's post could still be odd.
If you think it's scummy, say it's scummy, and say why it's scummy. "Odd" is a wussy word that is only used by scum and townies with no backbone.
*****
In conclusion, me saying "fakeclaim" instead of "claim" was just a slip of the tongue, and not a slip because I'm scum.
Anyway, if Starbuck is lynched, which seems likely, I'm about 95% sure that he'll flip town. If he does, then that doesn't reflect on me at all. If on a rare chance he does flip scum, then I'm sure I'm next, but at least that's not the end of the world.
And flavor arguments rock.-
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Buzz Lightyear thinks he's this great, awesome, Space Ranger, but in reality he's just a toy.Yank wrote:It was a good claim? How hard is it to claim vanilla? *insert disney character here*, I'm a Vanilla Townie. How is it a good claim?
Hence, he has no real ability. Ta-da.
And yeah, if someone came in and claimed "Hercules - Vanilla Townie," then no, I wouldn't say that was a good claim.
That just shows that the mod is being smart and goes for something that isn't your immediate hunch, but makes sense once you think about it.Monkey wrote:If anything, I would think Buzz would NOT be a candidate for a vanilla.
I personally thought it was odd that you'd never heard of Bolt, and thought that you might have been hiding the fact that you could make up a good fakeclaim. But in the end, I didn't go along with that.Kmd wrote:I complained that flavor was even being used as a reason for anything. Seriously, I was lynched for not knowing was a Bolt was.
But seriously, look at all the roles from the last game. They are AWESOME!
Saying Starbuck is scum is saying that she...
1. Claimed Vanilla as scum, which is a very risky gambit.
2. Claimed perfectly matching flavor and ability.
No offense intended, but I think that might be giving her a little too much credit.-
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Have you looked at the roles from the last game, dude?SC wrote:Didn't I just tell Crazy it's too early to speculate on what name could be what role? We have absolutely nothing solid.
Bolt - Vanilla Townie
-Bolt is a TV superhero that believes he has powers but really doesn't.
Violet - Cop
-Violet has the power to turn invisible, which would make a very good cop.
Kenai - Jailkeeper
-A man that turned into a bear and who ends up taking care of a young bear cub.
Kronk - Vanilla Townie
-He appears strong, but he's pretty dumb, so he doesn't end up helping do anything in the film.
Diego - Vigilante
-Diego is totally a rebel, all the way.
Lightning McQueen - Bus Driver
-He is a car, and he drives pretty fast. XD
Stitch - Traitor
-He appears as a dog to Lilo, but all he really likes to do is cause destruction.
Remy - Weak Tracker
-Still don't quite get this, although Remyisa rat.
RJ - Theif
-One of the most obvious; he's a raccoon that's stealing a collection of food to ward off a hungry bear.
Po - Vanilla Townie
-Po is very incapable compared to the rest of the martial arts characters.
Dory - Vanilla Townie
-Has short-term memory loss and she never really initiated anything by herself.
Morph - Some kind of redirector or something
-I'm actually not familiar with Treasure Planet, but the character and role both involves morphing.-
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Scum-hunting is used mainly to determine who we want to claim. The claim will result in a lynch (if the claim sucks), a refusal to lynch (if the claim is good), or more scum-hunting (if it's neither). If we're going to pick "more scum-hunting" every time, regardless of what the claim is, then there's really no point in claiming.SC wrote:And all of this information helps me in this particular game how? I find it easier and more effective to scumhunt than to concentrate on claims and potentially get caught in a mod-WIFOM game. If you want to give me a lesson on Good Claims and Bad Claims 101, you can, but I'd rather it be in Mafia Discussion, and it's probably safest to do that when the game is over.
Personally, I think Starbuck's claim is good. It matches the ability nicely in a somewhat unexpected way, which is what you'd expect from a good role PM. And it matches the generality of the role PMs of the last game.-
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Well, I think it does, but that's not the point here. I like flavor arguments, and you don't.Kmd wrote:I can see the argument. Yeah, it's probably a bad idea to go in that direction, but really. Does Toy Story fit with the title of "Disney Classic"? I don't think it does.
Why do you like flavor arguments in this case?
I'm also surprised you'd still support that Toy Story doesn't fit considering your character is after 1980...-
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I don't understand your logic here. It's like your saying:SC wrote:I should add that I thought the kill could have happened because Kmd4390 was talking too much about his role. I'm not invalidating it as the reasoning behind it, but as I said above we know he was not modkilled for that.
A. Kmd talked about his role.
B. Kmd was killed.
Thus, A caused B? How? It sounds like you're making up some random reason just so people don't talk about their roles.-
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I still don't get what you're saying. How could someone saying their movie was post-1980 and classic-like possibly cause someone to kill them.SC wrote:I'm not saying that A definitively caused B. I'm saying that A could have caused B, but we now know regardless that it can't have been because of the mod's doing.-
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Yeah, I missed that. But I'm not asking that now; I'm asking what in his flavor makes him aStarbuck wrote:Right below that post Crazy asks what conditional means, but Monkey says it right there in his claim. So I believe he did elaborate, so I can see his frustration when he has already elaborated and people are asking him to do so still.conditionalwatcher.
Monkey, you've already claimed your role; you have nothing to benefit scum by explaining the flavor in it.
If you don't explain now, expect me to vote you the first time we lynch a townie.
As for now, I'd much rather lynch Neopi than Starbuck, but I want to see if anybody else catches my eye.-
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o_0 What a weird thing to say. Why is a day SK bastardly? You said you didn't want a mod-WIFOM game, but I don't see why a day SK is bastardly at all.SC wrote:The mod confirmed by editing my last post is that Kmd4390 did not get modkilled and I don't see him as enough of a bastard mod to include a day SK, so I think we have a day vig somewhere.-
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Yes. And I'm sure everybody has flavor. And even if he didn't, he should say that he doesn't.Yank wrote:He is scum because he won't explain his flavor? He may not even know his flavor.
My reasoning is that refusing to claim flavor is what "Peter Pan - Random Scum Role" that just made up the "Conditional Watcher thing" would do.-
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