Mini 843- The Fast and the Furious Mafia! (Over-Mod Error)
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Well this is something. I'll get more detailed later today after I get all my ducks in a row but all and all not a bad start. One town and two I'd be willing to lynch. The town can stay secret for now *gasp*.
The scums though (full cases later)
RossWilliam - The classic interloper, just pokin the fires without actually contributing in the important ways... like actually voting for Kodamma when he says he's scum. And the qualitative language to boot.
Shadow Knight - Not a lot of anything. Which is disconcerting because what he DOES say (wagons like the quick wagon are null, check my meta, I only comment when "necessary" and yet that somehow isn't the major bulk of topics at hand...) makes me shake my head.
Unvote, Vote: Shadow Knight
There's a couple other reasons for this but they can wait, until the fruit is ripe.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Dag, that sure didn't take long.Orly? I think Spyre needs to pump the brakes a bit because part of that post looks like misrepresentation. You're using "check my meta" as though I told someone to do so. In reality, someone asked me to provide meta on myself, and I declined. You're cutting "quick wagons are null" and leaving out "early on day 1". I challenge you to find examples where scum were caught starting a bandwagon right out of the RVS. As far as "the major bulk of topics" please ask me a direct question and I'll be happy to answer you.
But, allow me to explain in detail the issues.
1.) Meta:
You were asked by Faraday to provide meta in regards to your laying low statement.
You then said you aren't going to provide your own meta.
You then give the tools to provide said meta.
No, you didn't SAY "check my meta" but your actions bespoke the desire to have your meta checked.
In defense of a question regarding your play in this game.
2.) Wagoning:
You're saying quick wagons are null day 1. Which is just as false as "quick wagons are null" the general statement. As for your challenge about finding games where such a thing did happen I'm not about to go on the meta hunt but if you REALLY push me I sure will. However, if such a thing is to pass then prepared to get lynched my good man.The boxman wagon looked the the typical run-of-the-mill attempt to get out of RVS to me. I find wagons like that to be a null tell on day one. Now if someone gets run up like that tomorrow, it becomes a useful tool for comparing interactions.
There is always something to be taken from every wagon. Always. Even if a wagon isn't going to get to lynching it MAY get to claiming and it also, shocker, may force a reaction that scum can bounce on. Calling it null isn't helpful.
3.) Content:
a.) Its not a function of "direct questions". Thats not how this works. It is a function of what you are participating with. Which we'll look at in depth thus:
0 - confirm
1 - be back later
2 -
3 -Well in my initial read, I've got DJ listed as town- his posts seem genuine. I'm also interested in hearing from kodamma, although I'll hold my vote for now.
4 -After his response, I'm willing to back off a bit for now, but I'll still be watching him. His response seems to come from a townie mindset, which is really all I've got to go one at this point in the game. He's gotten himself back to even footing, but I'm not prepared to label him a townie yet. He's correct about his vote sparking discussion (and about it putting him in the spotlight). He gets bonus points for ending the RVS (which I've never been a fan of, but that just means I like him as a player). I like that we now have interactions to analyze for later in the game as well. Overall, I'd say I'm neutral on kodamma for now. Further posts from him will hopefull change that.
5 -When I say townie mindset, I mean that it seems like something I would post as town without sounding too... contrived is the only word I can think of to use here right now.
Bonus points don't mean town or scum (or I would have called them townie points for scum points). I just meant that I like him as a player more because he ended the RVS quickly. I meant it when I said as far as town/scum goes, my reading on him is neutral.
While townies aren't afraid to piss people off, good townies realize that while the spotlight is on them, it isn't on scum. I generally try to keep my head down during the first day unless I spot a blatant scumtell.
6 -Sorry, for the absence. Sick friday and then I'm always busy on the weekends.
No, I'm not going to post links to previous games because I wouldn't trust a metagame analysis someone posted of themself, so I don't provide metagame analysis of myself.
As far as lurking, I don' t feel that I am. I'm commenting on everything I feel its necessary to comment on. The reason I haven't FOS'd anyone is because I don't really use FOS's. If I find someone scummy, I vote them. I haven't found anyone scummy yet this game, hence me not voting anyone yet. I don't feel the need to park my vote somewhere until its needed. I'll vote when when I make a case against someone or see a case I can agree with.
7 -The boxman wagon looked the the typical run-of-the-mill attempt to get out of RVS to me. I find wagons like that to be a null tell on day one. Now if someone gets run up like that tomorrow, it becomes a useful tool for comparing interactions.
If your looking for long range meta, you can also check my old account both here and MTGS. I used to be draygn_mage, although I daresay my playstyle has changed in the years I was gone.
So, lets break this down.Orly? I think Spyre needs to pump the brakes a bit because part of that post looks like misrepresentation. You're using "check my meta" as though I told someone to do so. In reality, someone asked me to provide meta on myself, and I declined. You're cutting "quick wagons are null" and leaving out "early on day 1". I challenge you to find examples where scum were caught starting a bandwagon right out of the RVS. As far as "the major bulk of topics" please ask me a direct question and I'll be happy to answer you.
0 - fluff
1 - fluff
2 - DJ is town. Interested in hearing more from Kon.
3 - Kon is neutral.
4 - Kon apparently isn't neutral (town). Rhetoric.
5 - Not going to give meta. Argument against the lurking claim. Defending having no vote placed.
6 - Wagon was null (yet, look at 3). Wagons later (which rarely, if ever, happen) would not be null.
7 - Quick reply to my post saying I'm misrepping him. Including the start of a strawman challenge!
So, what's missing?
Well, input on most of the game. I read it once and I already have a dead ringer for super town that isn't mentioned. Or analysis of the pressure on Tjoe. Or the vote on Starbuck. Or...
Well anything besides DJ being townish and Kon being neutral.
So, yea.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Hit em hard. Hit em fast. No mercy.
More specifically, I just laid out my initial thoughts on scum. SK's response was 1.) fast and 2.) reactionary which forced me to pull the full hand.
We'll see how it goes from here. It's fairly hard to persuade me especially when the initial response is I'm misinterpreting to push through a bad lynch-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Hey now DJ, I always listen.
As for Kon - he's really up in the air. However, rereading gives a very genuine sense of whats going on versus a scum that jumped a bit too hard and too fast (perhaps too furious?).-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Boxman is starting to give me the itch, but I can't pinpoint why it needs to be scratched. Seems like a bit too much coasting at the moment.
I'm not a fan of lists where the majority is neutra (anim)l. I like the reads and reasons, but they are too far between considering.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Which is all well and good but when taking the extra time results in a myriad of nulls I'm not stoked to the rafters.
However, that is secondary to SK falling off the face of the Earth.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SK, that wall of words was all but impossible to read. Sum it up in a nice bullet list.
Although Faraday's reaction was interesting enough.
Additionally: one of Anim / Doom is scum. This just in. I may be switching my vote once I figure out which one.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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The nature of the argument bespeaks both of you being the same alignment.
The argument of semantics when the nature of what he is doing is fairly obvious is itchy. The fact his response was furthering this instead of calling you out on it is also itchy.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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You could be the same alignment but, like I said, the nature of the argument makes that seem less likely. Semantic arguments aren't solid to begin with and, generally, are attacked viciously. The fact this one wasn't really makes me confident in one of you two being scum.DB wrote:Why can't we be the same alignment? Town gets into arguments with each other a lot and scum could bus each other.
However, you'll notice there isn't a vote, because:
So that giant wall of words was for aSK wrote: I reread Faraday and figured out why he stuck out to me (his scum hunting style is leave a juicy steak in the middle of a bear trap which is great when you catch the bear, but not so much when you destroy a raccoon). I came to the conclusion that Scummy scum hunting style =/= scum. Scum hunting = town. Ergo, Faraday = town.town read?
Yea. Vote stays. I am all for this lynch.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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I'll still lynch an SK, but I've finally come down on this issue:
Unvote, Vote: Animo
I'll say that this is prob. true.There's a reason I said probably. I disagree with what doombunny said, but that doesn't mak him mafia.
No. Just no.I don't know what I can say, unless there's something you want me to say.
If you agree with my sentiment that one of you two is scum and you're not sure that doombunny is scum then the natural extension would bethat you are scum.
And the last, well.
Yea, down with this.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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A PBPA is useful in illustrating WHY someone is scum. If you had went "I started a PBPA and then saw X which made me think he is town (despite my initial read)" then sure thats fine.@Spyre/bunny- I started the PBPA because I was getting scum vibes from Faraday (of the something's not right, but I can't place what variety). By the time I realized what it was, and changed my opinion, I had already done a lot of work, and wasn't going to *not* post it. If you think that is scummy, then go ahead and lynch me. Me posting my thoughts (or anyone posting their thoughts) (whether I think someone is townie or scum) gives us something to compare behavior against. I currently feel that Faraday is a townie. I gave my reasons for it. I don't like the connotation for either of you that I should limit how much I type based on whether or not the end result is me thinking someone is scum or town.
I don't care how much anyone posts. What i'm getting at is you just used a whole lot of words to get a town read which, really, isn't more than a drop in the bucket at the mo considering a.) Faraday isn't really a viable lynch candidate b) This was after I took you to task about not actually looking for scum and c) see b - still didn't find a scum, just used a lot of works to make a town read.
Of course you'll also notice that at the moment I'm voting for Anim because, well, yea.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Far from it. I'm fine with PBPA's that illustrate why someone is scum. I'm fine with short synopsis on why someone is town (although at this juncture I care less about those).
I'm flabbergasted by PBPA's that illustrate why someone is town. Especially not a lynch candidate.
I DO actually change reads though so don't post what you think I want to hear versus what you want to post (unless you're scum then its all good).-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Hmmmmm
Well not knowing the source material definitely hurts. I have no idea if that makes any sense in the greater context.
I know it doesn't make sense with what I have though.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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I appreciate the vote of confidence about my mad skills, yo. (Although apparently it should be 3rd parties and not scums since that seems to be my new modus operandi for day 1, sigh).DJ wrote:i have to go with my gut here and think spyrex must be scum. sorry, man, but you should get whacked night one, all the time, when you are town.
spyrex: who do you think is scum?
As for scum at the mo':
Shadow Knight - for all the reasons yesterday, still.
One of (but probably not more than one) team Lurkin': Tjoe, Boxman, DJ. (Right now I'm leaning ever so slightly towards it being Box, but).
I've got my hackles up over Faraday, although I can't pin it. So it can wait.
Vote: Shadow Knight
Starbuck gets a slide - yea, its a neighbor and not a mason but barring CC and throwing it out this early well, yea.
Two kills after we've nailed a survivor already points heavily (I hope) at the Ross shot being a vig and not an SK (If it's an SK, I'd bet on 2 scum in a bizarro 8-2-1-1 setup).-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Ohh yea my bad on trusting the mod flips.
Especially since he claimed Doctor before that whole business went down. Seems a decent place to stick it into flavor.
Of course, if I am wrong I hope the mod will rectify this since this DOES have a fairly large bearing on things overall.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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So the Neutral Survivor flip means nothing and I get to assume he was telling the truth and we're down a PR from that and last night.
Which also means I was balls out wrong on my call with them. Awesome.
Unvote, Vote: SK
Tjoe seems far too transparent. I'm not buying it.
However, not buying this, still.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Don you are officially scaring me this game. Flattery will get me a tinfoil hat.
I've been crusin' on Mord being my ultra-town read from early on but 358 gives me a worried feeling in my belly.
Tjoe isn't a BAD lynch. Don't get me wrong. However, I think SK is a much better lynch overall.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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All depends on how you look at it.
DJ is tying himself to my case, blatantly. Which means that, if scum, this is either a bus on his part or he's setting himself up for a myraid of issues come night/tomorrow.
Or, he's town and agrees with me.
I'm not used to getting someone attached to the hip, but I kinda like it.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Hold up a skosh.
1.) Was tjoe's case manufactured in any method?
2.) Is tjoe saying the case itself was fabricated for reactions?
If the answer to either of those is yes, then it's a no brainer.
I'll deal with SK later.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Considering the 12-item inventor in a mini opted NOT to even pretend to say who he gave something to (hint: this is stalling) I'm far more baffled by people looking AT this being credible versus those that are calling it what it is.
Further, and I can't even believe I need to explain this, we're looking at a no vanilla setup. Why, in the name of pete, would you need an inventor with 12 items when we already have powers?
Hmmmmm?
Its a mystery.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Unvote
I still don't like this. At all. It makes my spider sense all tingly. However, for the moment it has brought a few other things to light.
If we're looking at a 8-3-1 or 9-3 setup tomorrow has the potential to be lylo which means this could be a ballsy as all getout gambit. The ONLY scenario, which I think is unlikely, is an 8-2-2 sooo.
@Tjoe: Why Faraday?
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Lets look at our list of peeps and play some parse:
Starbuck - Neighbor
Faraday - ? (Received Invention)
SpyreX - Awesome
Tjoe Min Ja - Inventor
don_johnson - ?
Boxman - ?
Shadow Knight - ?
MordyS - ?
So, based on the theory of "confirmable roles" and the idea that a scum inventor in this setup makes even less sense than the town inventor:
Faraday
SpyreX
DJ
Boxman
SK
MordyS
So, with a little energon and a lot of luck THAR BE SCUMS above. Eliminating myself for being awesome.
Faraday
DJ
Box
SK
MordyS
Now, I really, really doubt that both Faraday and DJ are scum together based on current events. Which means we can do another parse:
Faraday/DJ
Box
SK
MordyS
Now, things get interesting:
Mordy had been giving me pretty solid vibes early on but thats faded a bit. His last post may have, in fact, a true scum slip - "I'd be happy to pull the trigger ontheinventor." Further, if Mordy is scum then it all but confirms Starbuck as town.
Boxman has been very underwhelming. His reaction to the early wagon could go either way - however, the wall of finger pointing at the voters is suspect. Post 7 iso is off. However, post 9 with the pool as sits and the kills doesn't make a lot of sense as a scum-list - with one major caveat: if Boxman is scum I'd wager heavy on DJ being scum as well. Further, I'd be surprised if the Tjoe business was a bus - so Tjoe would be confirmed again as well.
Then there is SK. Aside from that massive wall on Faraday with a town read there has been very little substance. There is a quick and strong turn around on Tjoe that I don't like (although this could be confirmation bias). Again, not seeing a bus here so marks for Tjoe-town if SK-scum. Further, I COULD actually see a DJ-SK pairing in a beautiful bus love triangle.
So:
Today I'm not down with the Faraday/DJ knot - I personally think they're both town (with Faraday a slight leader in the town 9000).
I'm betting hard on there being at least one, if not two scum in the group of Mordy, Boxman, SK.
Logic says Boxman is the best lynch.
Gut says SK is the best lynch.
Today is a gut day.
Vote: SK
Note: Dear other killing party - if we lynch one of those and you want to win (be it town vig OR be it SK) the other would be a delicious target that you should bite the hell out of. Yes, this is me directing power roles.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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@Mord:
The only problem with that is that a Tjoe lynch today would absolutely mean a Faraday lynch tomorrow IF Tjoe said he gave it to Faraday and he didn't speak up.
So, not ironclad but I like the thought process.
@Tjoe:
Fair enough. Just wanted your input.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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How in the hell did I miss you when you are in the MIDDLE of the list I copied?
That says something though. I missed you and didn't even notice. Because you're not near active enough.From what I gather you strike me as moderately town - the only real tie is Tjoe whom by nature of the beast I'm leanin hard town on.
Mordy isn't getting a PASS, persay. I just like the other two more. My guitar wouldn't weep if he were to get the rope.
As for the connections:
Boxman - DJ: Look early on at the speed wagon on box. DJ jumps on (with "reason) and when Box flips the power OMGUS DJ is let off the hook. Further, when Box gives his read of the game DJ is mentioned specifically for that and later posts giving a better vibe.
DJ-SK: This would be the "bus" in the setup. DJ has followed me in my SK hunt without a lot of additional input which is odd. However, SK flipped and attacked him for following my "crap case" when I would be the catalyst. However, if sentiment turned towards DJ getting the noose for that behavior that would go a long way to making SK look better.
I dont think I tied SK-Box?
NOW, looking at the above the obvious question is "why not DJ?"
Which I thought about too. However, DJ is scummy by association and not multi-directional in case 1 AND if its a bus well SK is still a good call.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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JereIC doesn't bother me in his posts - just the fact there isn't enough of them.@SpyreX : lol.....what do you think about JereiC?
can you sort SK, DJ, boxman, Mordys, and JereiC based on their scummy behaviour?
So, if I was to parse that list:
SK
Boxman
------ Some space
MordyS
------ More space
JereIC
DJ-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Bodyguard huh.
I'd like a bit more detail without stepping across the modkill line on how this works.
The fact you didn't bother to say what you did last night bothers me more than a little.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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The only way that kind of hitch making sense would be DJ as Godfather - and even then its garnering enough negative sentiment that if ANYONE could kill him they would.
I didn't like it when TMJ did it. I doubly don't like it when AFTER that all went down we're seeing it repeat again.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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General Explanation:
1.) Absence of play, in general.
2.) One major post is a PBPA for a TOWN read on Faraday
3.) Attacking DJ for "hopping on" while ignoring my case overall.
4.) Claiming to BG me because scum would kill me to make my case on him stronger.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Its not weird. At least one of those I'd put money on tried to hit me. Alas, didn't work so well did it SUCKERS.
Try it again, I double dog dare you.
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Vote: Boxman
I could see the dj-bus STILL but, not as strong.
KoC pretty much goes *awesome* now after the SK flip. Although I'm rather wroth at there not being another invention claim yet - KoC, anything funny happen to you (I.e. did you try to give it to me mr funny pants).
Starbuck is still an enigma but I want to cut through this.
I could maaybe go Mordy, but I think this is the right call. Scum begat scum begat scum.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Today is a logic day.SpyreX wrote:I'm betting hard on there being at least one, if not two scum in the group of Mordy, Boxman, SK.
Logic says Boxman is the best lynch.
Gut says SK is the best lynch.
Today is a gut day.-
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It just feels far too strong-arm for what, ultimately, is a fairly weak attack. And real fast off the draw. It gives me the itchy feelings, but like I said it can wait.
Oddly enough on a general standpoint I'm shocked and bothered by the fact with a whole mess of powers we haven't had ANYTHING happen information-wise from them after two nights.-
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Its too early for a massclaim, yes.
However, I did (or so I thought) made it pretty clear that assuming two non-town kills that I stopped at least one of them. Because they targeted me. SUCKERS.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Si:
Faraday could be the other side of the coin.SpyreX, last page wrote:Its not weird. At least one of those I'd put money on tried to hit me. Alas, didn't work so well did it SUCKERS.
Try it again, I double dog dare you.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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I'm going to laugh if boxman is scum and thats TWICE we've seen starbuck come out at lynchtime questioning the wagon.
I think its a solid lynch. I think, even if wrong, there's things to be found. I tend to not think I'm wrong though.
I would like the claim.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Hmmmm.
Ok, lets play talky-time then.
Assume that Box ISNT scum and the above is true (you are putting more weight on those than I do, but lets play along).
You, then, either as scum just saved a mislynch that you could have easily finger-pointed at me on (which seems unlikely) or are being towny mctowntown and are going down a path of salvation (which could be true).
So, at that point, who IS the scum?
I'm far too awesome to be scum. It's pretty clear.
DJ took a path of little gain and great risk (chaining himself to me means no town cred on a scum flip AND a lot of suspicion on a town one) which doesn't strike me as awesome.
If we rule out box, based on the above I'd be very tempted to rule you out.
KOC being a scum inventor doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
That leaves us with: Faraday, JereIC, Starbuck.
Faraday has got a town-vibe a flowin. No one has claimed that other kill and I could easily see them taking a shot that way.
So, Jere and Starbuck? One throwing the hammer down on a partner while the other tries to save them?
Hmmm. Maaybee.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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