Mini 843- The Fast and the Furious Mafia! (Over-Mod Error)

[SpyreX]

Howdy I am your esteemed replacement.

Gimme a few to catch up on all the riveting 7 pages of action.

[SpyreX]

Well this is something. I'll get more detailed later today after I get all my ducks in a row but all and all not a bad start. One town and two I'd be willing to lynch. The town can stay secret for now *gasp*.

The scums though (full cases later)

RossWilliam - The classic interloper, just pokin the fires without actually contributing in the important ways... like actually voting for Kodamma when he says he's scum. And the qualitative language to boot.

Shadow Knight - Not a lot of anything. Which is disconcerting because what he DOES say (wagons like the quick wagon are null, check my meta, I only comment when "necessary" and yet that somehow isn't the major bulk of topics at hand...) makes me shake my head.

Unvote, Vote: Shadow Knight

There's a couple other reasons for this but they can wait, until the fruit is ripe.

[SpyreX]

Orly? I think Spyre needs to pump the brakes a bit because part of that post looks like misrepresentation. You're using "check my meta" as though I told someone to do so. In reality, someone asked me to provide meta on myself, and I declined. You're cutting "quick wagons are null" and leaving out "early on day 1". I challenge you to find examples where scum were caught starting a bandwagon right out of the RVS. As far as "the major bulk of topics" please ask me a direct question and I'll be happy to answer you.

Dag, that sure didn't take long.

But, allow me to explain in detail the issues.

1.) Meta:

You were asked by Faraday to provide meta in regards to your laying low statement.
You then said you aren't going to provide your own meta.
You then give the tools to provide said meta.

No, you didn't SAY "check my meta" but your actions bespoke the desire to have your meta checked.

In defense of a question regarding your play in this game.

2.) Wagoning:

The boxman wagon looked the the typical run-of-the-mill attempt to get out of RVS to me. I find wagons like that to be a null tell on day one. Now if someone gets run up like that tomorrow, it becomes a useful tool for comparing interactions.

You're saying quick wagons are null day 1. Which is just as false as "quick wagons are null" the general statement. As for your challenge about finding games where such a thing did happen I'm not about to go on the meta hunt but if you REALLY push me I sure will. However, if such a thing is to pass then prepared to get lynched my good man.

There is always something to be taken from every wagon. Always. Even if a wagon isn't going to get to lynching it MAY get to claiming and it also, shocker, may force a reaction that scum can bounce on. Calling it null isn't helpful.

3.) Content:

a.) Its not a function of "direct questions". Thats not how this works. It is a function of what you are participating with. Which we'll look at in depth thus:

0 - confirm
1 - be back later
2 -

Well in my initial read, I've got DJ listed as town- his posts seem genuine. I'm also interested in hearing from kodamma, although I'll hold my vote for now.

3 -

After his response, I'm willing to back off a bit for now, but I'll still be watching him. His response seems to come from a townie mindset, which is really all I've got to go one at this point in the game. He's gotten himself back to even footing, but I'm not prepared to label him a townie yet. He's correct about his vote sparking discussion (and about it putting him in the spotlight). He gets bonus points for ending the RVS (which I've never been a fan of, but that just means I like him as a player). I like that we now have interactions to analyze for later in the game as well. Overall, I'd say I'm neutral on kodamma for now. Further posts from him will hopefull change that.

4 -

When I say townie mindset, I mean that it seems like something I would post as town without sounding too... contrived is the only word I can think of to use here right now.
Bonus points don't mean town or scum (or I would have called them townie points for scum points). I just meant that I like him as a player more because he ended the RVS quickly. I meant it when I said as far as town/scum goes, my reading on him is neutral.
While townies aren't afraid to piss people off, good townies realize that while the spotlight is on them, it isn't on scum. I generally try to keep my head down during the first day unless I spot a blatant scumtell.

5 -

Sorry, for the absence. Sick friday and then I'm always busy on the weekends.
No, I'm not going to post links to previous games because I wouldn't trust a metagame analysis someone posted of themself, so I don't provide metagame analysis of myself.
As far as lurking, I don' t feel that I am. I'm commenting on everything I feel its necessary to comment on. The reason I haven't FOS'd anyone is because I don't really use FOS's. If I find someone scummy, I vote them. I haven't found anyone scummy yet this game, hence me not voting anyone yet. I don't feel the need to park my vote somewhere until its needed. I'll vote when when I make a case against someone or see a case I can agree with.

6 -

The boxman wagon looked the the typical run-of-the-mill attempt to get out of RVS to me. I find wagons like that to be a null tell on day one. Now if someone gets run up like that tomorrow, it becomes a useful tool for comparing interactions.
If your looking for long range meta, you can also check my old account both here and MTGS. I used to be draygn_mage, although I daresay my playstyle has changed in the years I was gone.

7 -

Orly? I think Spyre needs to pump the brakes a bit because part of that post looks like misrepresentation. You're using "check my meta" as though I told someone to do so. In reality, someone asked me to provide meta on myself, and I declined. You're cutting "quick wagons are null" and leaving out "early on day 1". I challenge you to find examples where scum were caught starting a bandwagon right out of the RVS. As far as "the major bulk of topics" please ask me a direct question and I'll be happy to answer you.

So, lets break this down.
0 - fluff
1 - fluff
2 - DJ is town. Interested in hearing more from Kon.
3 - Kon is neutral.
4 - Kon apparently isn't neutral (town). Rhetoric.
5 - Not going to give meta. Argument against the lurking claim. Defending having no vote placed.
6 - Wagon was null (yet, look at 3). Wagons later (which rarely, if ever, happen) would not be null.
7 - Quick reply to my post saying I'm misrepping him. Including the start of a strawman challenge!

So, what's missing?

Well, input on most of the game. I read it once and I already have a dead ringer for super town that isn't mentioned. Or analysis of the pressure on Tjoe. Or the vote on Starbuck. Or...

Well anything besides DJ being townish and Kon being neutral.

So, yea.

[SpyreX]

Hit em hard. Hit em fast. No mercy.

More specifically, I just laid out my initial thoughts on scum. SK's response was 1.) fast and 2.) reactionary which forced me to pull the full hand.

We'll see how it goes from here. It's fairly hard to persuade me especially when the initial response is I'm misinterpreting to push through a bad lynch

[SpyreX]

I didn't replace for Koa, sheesh.

[SpyreX]

Hey now DJ, I always listen.

As for Kon - he's really up in the air. However, rereading gives a very genuine sense of whats going on versus a scum that jumped a bit too hard and too fast (perhaps too furious?).

[SpyreX]

Boxman is starting to give me the itch, but I can't pinpoint why it needs to be scratched. Seems like a bit too much coasting at the moment.

I'm not a fan of lists where the majority is neutra (anim)l. I like the reads and reasons, but they are too far between considering.

[SpyreX]

Which is all well and good but when taking the extra time results in a myriad of nulls I'm not stoked to the rafters.

However, that is secondary to SK falling off the face of the Earth.

[SpyreX]

SK, that wall of words was all but impossible to read. Sum it up in a nice bullet list.

Although Faraday's reaction was interesting enough.

Additionally: one of Anim / Doom is scum. This just in. I may be switching my vote once I figure out which one.

[SpyreX]

Both doesn't seem to click right, but this whole semantics debate and anim's reply to it reek of different alignments.

[SpyreX]

The nature of the argument bespeaks both of you being the same alignment.

The argument of semantics when the nature of what he is doing is fairly obvious is itchy. The fact his response was furthering this instead of calling you out on it is also itchy.

[SpyreX]

Why can't we be the same alignment? Town gets into arguments with each other a lot and scum could bus each other.

You could be the same alignment but, like I said, the nature of the argument makes that seem less likely. Semantic arguments aren't solid to begin with and, generally, are attacked viciously. The fact this one wasn't really makes me confident in one of you two being scum.

However, you'll notice there isn't a vote, because:

I reread Faraday and figured out why he stuck out to me (his scum hunting style is leave a juicy steak in the middle of a bear trap which is great when you catch the bear, but not so much when you destroy a raccoon). I came to the conclusion that Scummy scum hunting style =/= scum. Scum hunting = town. Ergo, Faraday = town.

So that giant wall of words was for a

town read

?

Yea. Vote stays. I am all for this lynch.

[SpyreX]

I'll still lynch an SK, but I've finally come down on this issue:

Unvote, Vote: Animo

I'll say that this is prob. true.

There's a reason I said probably. I disagree with what doombunny said, but that doesn't mak him mafia.

I don't know what I can say, unless there's something you want me to say.

No. Just no.

If you agree with my sentiment that one of you two is scum and you're not sure that doombunny is scum then the natural extension would be

that you are scum

.

And the last, well.

Yea, down with this.

[SpyreX]

@Spyre/bunny- I started the PBPA because I was getting scum vibes from Faraday (of the something's not right, but I can't place what variety). By the time I realized what it was, and changed my opinion, I had already done a lot of work, and wasn't going to *not* post it. If you think that is scummy, then go ahead and lynch me. Me posting my thoughts (or anyone posting their thoughts) (whether I think someone is townie or scum) gives us something to compare behavior against. I currently feel that Faraday is a townie. I gave my reasons for it. I don't like the connotation for either of you that I should limit how much I type based on whether or not the end result is me thinking someone is scum or town.

A PBPA is useful in illustrating WHY someone is scum. If you had went "I started a PBPA and then saw X which made me think he is town (despite my initial read)" then sure thats fine.

I don't care how much anyone posts. What i'm getting at is you just used a whole lot of words to get a town read which, really, isn't more than a drop in the bucket at the mo considering a.) Faraday isn't really a viable lynch candidate b) This was after I took you to task about not actually looking for scum and c) see b - still didn't find a scum, just used a lot of works to make a town read.

Of course you'll also notice that at the moment I'm voting for Anim because, well, yea.

[SpyreX]

Far from it. I'm fine with PBPA's that illustrate why someone is scum. I'm fine with short synopsis on why someone is town (although at this juncture I care less about those).

I'm flabbergasted by PBPA's that illustrate why someone is town. Especially not a lynch candidate.

I DO actually change reads though so don't post what you think I want to hear versus what you want to post (unless you're scum then its all good).

[SpyreX]

Hmmmmm

Well not knowing the source material definitely hurts. I have no idea if that makes any sense in the greater context.

I know it doesn't make sense with what I have though.

[SpyreX]

i have to go with my gut here and think spyrex must be scum. sorry, man, but you should get whacked night one, all the time, when you are town.

spyrex: who do you think is scum?

I appreciate the vote of confidence about my mad skills, yo. (Although apparently it should be 3rd parties and not scums since that seems to be my new modus operandi for day 1, sigh).

As for scum at the mo':

Shadow Knight - for all the reasons yesterday, still.
One of (but probably not more than one) team Lurkin': Tjoe, Boxman, DJ. (Right now I'm leaning ever so slightly towards it being Box, but).
I've got my hackles up over Faraday, although I can't pin it. So it can wait.

Vote: Shadow Knight

Starbuck gets a slide - yea, its a neighbor and not a mason but barring CC and throwing it out this early well, yea.

Two kills after we've nailed a survivor already points heavily (I hope) at the Ross shot being a vig and not an SK (If it's an SK, I'd bet on 2 scum in a bizarro 8-2-1-1 setup).

[SpyreX]

Ohh yea my bad on trusting the mod flips.

Especially since he claimed Doctor before that whole business went down. Seems a decent place to stick it into flavor.

Of course, if I am wrong I hope the mod will rectify this since this DOES have a fairly large bearing on things overall.

[SpyreX]

Before this gets out of hand:

@Mod: Can you clarify the modkill for us?

[SpyreX]

So the Neutral Survivor flip means nothing and I get to assume he was telling the truth and we're down a PR from that and last night.

Which also means I was balls out wrong on my call with them. Awesome.

Unvote, Vote: SK

Tjoe seems far too transparent. I'm not buying it.

However, not buying this, still.

[SpyreX]

Don you are officially scaring me this game. Flattery will get me a tinfoil hat.

I've been crusin' on Mord being my ultra-town read from early on but 358 gives me a worried feeling in my belly.

Tjoe isn't a BAD lynch. Don't get me wrong. However, I think SK is a much better lynch overall.

[SpyreX]

... Don, you're officially buggin me out.

However, ego says my case is awesome and watching SK attack DJ and not talk to ME doesn't change that one bit.

[SpyreX]

All depends on how you look at it.

DJ is tying himself to my case, blatantly. Which means that, if scum, this is either a bus on his part or he's setting himself up for a myraid of issues come night/tomorrow.

Or, he's town and agrees with me.

I'm not used to getting someone attached to the hip, but I kinda like it.

[SpyreX]

Even if it scares the hell out of me.

[SpyreX]

I'm not worried about the outside influences - but IS there 36 posts on site between posts here in this game?

(too busy to check)

[SpyreX]

? No, Tjoe.

If you have proof that she was active on site and not in this game, share it.

[SpyreX]

Hold up a skosh.

1.) Was tjoe's case manufactured in any method?
2.) Is tjoe saying the case itself was fabricated for reactions?

If the answer to either of those is yes, then it's a no brainer.

I'll deal with SK later.

[SpyreX]

Eleven?

Not buying it. At all.

Unvote, Vote: Tjoe

[SpyreX]

Considering the 12-item inventor in a mini opted NOT to even pretend to say who he gave something to (hint: this is stalling) I'm far more baffled by people looking AT this being credible versus those that are calling it what it is.

Further, and I can't even believe I need to explain this, we're looking at a no vanilla setup. Why, in the name of pete, would you need an inventor with 12 items when we already have powers?

Hmmmmm?

Its a mystery.

[SpyreX]

Unvote

I still don't like this. At all. It makes my spider sense all tingly. However, for the moment it has brought a few other things to light.

If we're looking at a 8-3-1 or 9-3 setup tomorrow has the potential to be lylo which means this could be a ballsy as all getout gambit. The ONLY scenario, which I think is unlikely, is an 8-2-2 sooo.

@Tjoe: Why Faraday?

-----

Lets look at our list of peeps and play some parse:

Starbuck - Neighbor
Faraday - ? (Received Invention)
SpyreX - Awesome
Tjoe Min Ja - Inventor
don_johnson - ?
Boxman - ?
Shadow Knight - ?
MordyS - ?

So, based on the theory of "confirmable roles" and the idea that a scum inventor in this setup makes even less sense than the town inventor:

Faraday
SpyreX
DJ
Boxman
SK
MordyS

So, with a little energon and a lot of luck THAR BE SCUMS above. Eliminating myself for being awesome.

Faraday
DJ
Box
SK
MordyS

Now, I really, really doubt that both Faraday and DJ are scum together based on current events. Which means we can do another parse:

Faraday/DJ
Box
SK
MordyS

Now, things get interesting:

Mordy had been giving me pretty solid vibes early on but thats faded a bit. His last post may have, in fact, a true scum slip - "I'd be happy to pull the trigger on

the

inventor." Further, if Mordy is scum then it all but confirms Starbuck as town.

Boxman has been very underwhelming. His reaction to the early wagon could go either way - however, the wall of finger pointing at the voters is suspect. Post 7 iso is off. However, post 9 with the pool as sits and the kills doesn't make a lot of sense as a scum-list - with one major caveat: if Boxman is scum I'd wager heavy on DJ being scum as well. Further, I'd be surprised if the Tjoe business was a bus - so Tjoe would be confirmed again as well.

Then there is SK. Aside from that massive wall on Faraday with a town read there has been very little substance. There is a quick and strong turn around on Tjoe that I don't like (although this could be confirmation bias). Again, not seeing a bus here so marks for Tjoe-town if SK-scum. Further, I COULD actually see a DJ-SK pairing in a beautiful bus love triangle.

So:

Today I'm not down with the Faraday/DJ knot - I personally think they're both town (with Faraday a slight leader in the town 9000).

I'm betting hard on there being at least one, if not two scum in the group of Mordy, Boxman, SK.

Logic says Boxman is the best lynch.
Gut says SK is the best lynch.

Today is a gut day.

Vote: SK

Note: Dear other killing party - if we lynch one of those and you want to win (be it town vig OR be it SK) the other would be a delicious target that you should bite the hell out of. Yes, this is me directing power roles.

[SpyreX]

Yes, that is the entirety of the reason I am voting you. Alas, undone.

[SpyreX]

@Mord:

The only problem with that is that a Tjoe lynch today would absolutely mean a Faraday lynch tomorrow IF Tjoe said he gave it to Faraday and he didn't speak up.

So, not ironclad but I like the thought process.

@Tjoe:

Fair enough. Just wanted your input.

[SpyreX]

How in the hell did I miss you when you are in the MIDDLE of the list I copied?

That says something though. I missed you and didn't even notice. Because you're not near active enough. From what I gather you strike me as moderately town - the only real tie is Tjoe whom by nature of the beast I'm leanin hard town on.

Mordy isn't getting a PASS, persay. I just like the other two more. My guitar wouldn't weep if he were to get the rope.

As for the connections:

Boxman - DJ: Look early on at the speed wagon on box. DJ jumps on (with "reason) and when Box flips the power OMGUS DJ is let off the hook. Further, when Box gives his read of the game DJ is mentioned specifically for that and later posts giving a better vibe.

DJ-SK: This would be the "bus" in the setup. DJ has followed me in my SK hunt without a lot of additional input which is odd. However, SK flipped and attacked him for following my "crap case" when I would be the catalyst. However, if sentiment turned towards DJ getting the noose for that behavior that would go a long way to making SK look better.

I dont think I tied SK-Box?

NOW, looking at the above the obvious question is "why not DJ?"

Which I thought about too. However, DJ is scummy by association and not multi-directional in case 1 AND if its a bus well SK is still a good call.

[SpyreX]

Starbuck isn't "clear" but very little adds up with Starbuck scum killing her neighbor when the natrual extension is putting a whole MESS of suspicion on ones self.

[SpyreX]

... I'm saying I think you're TOWN starbuck.

RG didn't say a lot. Neither has Jere. I dont like it, but I like other things less.

[SpyreX]

Yep. By a decent margin.

[SpyreX]

Mmmm delicious defeatism.

Yea, I'm (shock) not buying it. SK is for victory.

[SpyreX]

@SpyreX : lol.....what do you think about JereiC?

can you sort SK, DJ, boxman, Mordys, and JereiC based on their scummy behaviour?

JereIC doesn't bother me in his posts - just the fact there isn't enough of them.

So, if I was to parse that list:

SK
Boxman
------ Some space
MordyS
------ More space
JereIC
DJ

[SpyreX]

Space means there's a "gap" between the level of suspicions I have on said players.

Yep, DJ is last on that list.

[SpyreX]

Bodyguard huh.

I'd like a bit more detail without stepping across the modkill line on how this works.

The fact you didn't bother to say what you did last night bothers me more than a little.

[SpyreX]

Yea this is scum stalling. A claim takes a minute. A fakeclaim takes a lifetime.

[SpyreX]

Until the day I die DJ I will never understand you.

[SpyreX]

The only way that kind of hitch making sense would be DJ as Godfather - and even then its garnering enough negative sentiment that if ANYONE could kill him they would.

I didn't like it when TMJ did it. I doubly don't like it when AFTER that all went down we're seeing it repeat again.

[SpyreX]

No, I'm not buying it.

Especially the rationale for targeting me.

[SpyreX]

Even IF I'm wrong about SK, which I doubt, DJ has what one would call an uphill battle if he IS scum.

[SpyreX]

General Explanation:

1.) Absence of play, in general.
2.) One major post is a PBPA for a TOWN read on Faraday
3.) Attacking DJ for "hopping on" while ignoring my case overall.
4.) Claiming to BG me because scum would kill me to make my case on him stronger.

[SpyreX]

Ohh starbuck you've got some explainin' to do before this day is done.

I'm headin to bed, but I'll be around in full force soon enough. DUN DUN DUN

[SpyreX]

Its not weird. At least one of those I'd put money on tried to hit me. Alas, didn't work so well did it SUCKERS.

Try it again, I double dog dare you.

----

Vote: Boxman

I could see the dj-bus STILL but, not as strong.

KoC pretty much goes *awesome* now after the SK flip. Although I'm rather wroth at there not being another invention claim yet - KoC, anything funny happen to you (I.e. did you try to give it to me mr funny pants).

Starbuck is still an enigma but I want to cut through this.

I could maaybe go Mordy, but I think this is the right call. Scum begat scum begat scum.

[SpyreX]

I'm betting hard on there being at least one, if not two scum in the group of Mordy, Boxman, SK.

Logic says Boxman is the best lynch.
Gut says SK is the best lynch.

Today is a gut day.

Today is a logic day.

[SpyreX]

I don't know I could get to like I point and send out the wolves.

I -really- don't like 618. Not one bit.

Not enough to move at this point though.

[SpyreX]

It just feels far too strong-arm for what, ultimately, is a fairly weak attack. And real fast off the draw. It gives me the itchy feelings, but like I said it can wait.

Oddly enough on a general standpoint I'm shocked and bothered by the fact with a whole mess of powers we haven't had ANYTHING happen information-wise from them after two nights.

[SpyreX]

I can dig that. That's part of why even though THAT struck me as off I'd still prefer Box today.

[SpyreX]

Its too early for a massclaim, yes.

However, I did (or so I thought) made it pretty clear that assuming two non-town kills that I stopped at least one of them. Because they targeted me. SUCKERS.

[SpyreX]

Si:

Its not weird. At least one of those I'd put money on tried to hit me. Alas, didn't work so well did it SUCKERS.

Try it again, I double dog dare you.

Faraday could be the other side of the coin.

[SpyreX]

I'm down with that and strongly advise not showing our hand at the moment figuring the nuances out.

[SpyreX]

There is no need to mess around. We are legion. We destroy without fear. We destroy without consequence.

That and the whole probably scum thing too.

[SpyreX]

I'm going to laugh if boxman is scum and thats TWICE we've seen starbuck come out at lynchtime questioning the wagon.

I think its a solid lynch. I think, even if wrong, there's things to be found. I tend to not think I'm wrong though.

I would like the claim.

[SpyreX]

Thats cause he's hitched himself to the alpha and the omega. I am the bringer of death.

[SpyreX]

You mean posting 13 times in your other games, right?

[SpyreX]

Hmmmm.

Ok, lets play talky-time then.

Assume that Box ISNT scum and the above is true (you are putting more weight on those than I do, but lets play along).

You, then, either as scum just saved a mislynch that you could have easily finger-pointed at me on (which seems unlikely) or are being towny mctowntown and are going down a path of salvation (which could be true).

So, at that point, who IS the scum?

I'm far too awesome to be scum. It's pretty clear.
DJ took a path of little gain and great risk (chaining himself to me means no town cred on a scum flip AND a lot of suspicion on a town one) which doesn't strike me as awesome.
If we rule out box, based on the above I'd be very tempted to rule you out.
KOC being a scum inventor doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

That leaves us with: Faraday, JereIC, Starbuck.

Faraday has got a town-vibe a flowin. No one has claimed that other kill and I could easily see them taking a shot that way.

So, Jere and Starbuck? One throwing the hammer down on a partner while the other tries to save them?

Hmmm. Maaybee.

[SpyreX]

You know what?

I like your style.

Lets give each other high fives and make this happen.

Unvote, Vote: Starbuck

[SpyreX]

I'm currently in work in Notepad and re-reading.

Between then and 6:59, 13 posts in other games occured.

Then:

No, but I'll mention the fact that you were building a case in Notepad more than an hour ago and came back with a one sentence about DJ's wagoning (which has already been discussing w/r/t to other lynches).

Also, I guess the fact that MS was down for almost a full day doesn't matter either?

Now, the question is: what does this have to do with the fact you claimed you were

actively in the process of rereading

today?

----

And what do we get from this case? A case of sorts on DJ (although, more a perusal than anything else).

And this case comes AFTER:

We are at 27 pages and I'm re-reading back thru the game which definitely takes longer than an hour. I have Mozilla, so I have that nice tab thing open where I have this game open in one and the rest of MS in another (plus my other random sites in other tabs).

It's also about 3 am for me and I haven't been to bed yet. So I may not have this up until sometime tomorrow.

----

Personal theory:

The neighbor had targeted, or wanted to target, scum. Thus, neighbor killed.

[SpyreX]

I support hammers.

[SpyreX]

682 misses you. It wishes you'd call it.

[SpyreX]

Nah, we're past that point.

If this isn't flailing, I don't know what is.

[SpyreX]

I pushed a case on Box. Mordy comes in with, overall, a solid post with reasons to switch.

Thus, the switch occurs.

You are asked VERY specific questions and opt not to answer them.

You are asked again about them.

You say you've claimed and thats all you need to do.

You are asked AGAIN.

I then, calling it like I see it, say don't even bother since I can't understand this being anything but flailing.

I'm not voting for myself because I'm not scum. You guys just discredited everything I said about DJ, even the fact that he did contradict himself. Everyone started voting for me because I wasn't working on my case on him, now that it's up, you don't care. So what's the point now of me doing all the extra work to answer questions when you are just gonna lynch me and FLIP TOWN anyways?

No. My issue was the I'm reading up / posting in other games / saying I wont be able to post / FOSing EVERYONE on your wagon / putting up a case on DJ (which isn't reading and if there wasn't time for the reread like you said why not say you were posting a case on DJ) / and then opting not to answer the questions before you.

But, whatevs. A neighbor claim wasn't going to live to lylo in this setup even if you are town which, due to recent events, I doubt.

[SpyreX]

...

I'll deal with this tomorrow if somehow there isn't a hammer. Lets just say color me unconvinced and if I'm wrong then you call can go OHH BAD SPYREX HOW DARE YOU.

[SpyreX]

Tomorrow as in I'm going to sleep.

Not game-day tomorrow. Good grief.

[SpyreX]

I'm gone for work meetings today but a few things I'd like to bring to light before this gets hammered through:

1.) The ONLY time Starbuck even pretends to discuss SK is the defense of him (iso 65, iso 66).
2.) Iso 27 heavily implies belief that Anim was, in fact, a doctor. Whereas 66 is using that flip to imply Anim was scum and thus SK is telling the truth.
3.) Repeated (I'm not even going to bother) defense of behavior by meta BUT then calls Tjoe out on "using outside game influences" AND then calls Mordy out for the same thing.
4.) You then have SK's behavior regarding Starbuck - one way defense is tech, TWO way defense is awesssome.
and then finally:
5.) You have the same, SAME, attack method that was used by SK on the case around them.

Yea. Get this done.

[SpyreX]

I would like some actual contribution today from you Jere. The invention I don't care about too much.

I really don't like that meta thread and if I was one to USE meta I'd be doubting my own results about her scumosity.

[SpyreX]

I'm shocked and awed:

1. My thoughts were focused on other people than SK.
2. I don't understand what you are getting at here. Elaborate please?
3. Where have I used my meta at all? Serious Strawman here. I debunked Tjoe's case on me and he was using outside the game influences towards his case. Mordy is now doing the same thing because I posted a question in the general mafia discussion area.
4. Someone not talking about someone else isn't always a scum tell
5. WTF are you talking about? I would like you to list similiarities.

1.) So, in a mini, it takes 60+ posts before you mention someone. How? Why? Further, your stance was one of DEFENSE based on flavor grounds of a now proven scum, which leads me into:

2.)

I definitely don't think that Ani was a neutral survivor because of the following bolded line.

As the sun was going down on the first day for the town, they began narrowing down their suspects. Animorpherv1 slowly began getting pressured, until he finally cracked. As he was pushed up the the lynching rope, and was asked to claim, he put the rope around his own neck, and right before he jumped, he yelled,

"I'm a Doct..."

I do think he listed him as neutral because he was modkilled. I don't like that you just assume that though.

Now, this is your quote. Based on 66 you are insinuating that this statement above means that you DO NOT believe a.) he was neutral and apparently b.) that he was a doctor.

Now, color me confused because every which way I hold that up it sure reads "He wasn't a survivor, but he was a doctor". No reference to him being SCUM (which is what your defense of Sk would entail) is made.

3.) Ahh, yea, I must be strawmanning right:

If you guys need to check out my meta

in order to prove that I don't actively lurk, flake, or drop out of games, please do so. I replace into more games than I actually start from the beginning. I did have real life stuff come up due to the fact that I am in the military, and had posted as such in the V/LA thread as well as in each of my games.

No examples of anything, and yes, I do admit that I was absent for the time due to work & real life stuff.

But my meta can disprove the fact

that I actively lurk or flake.

I have never replaced out of any of my games, and if you need to see a history of my games and view my activity please

go to my Wiki.

Also about #3, it wasn't anything to do with the games I'm currently in.

My guess is that you have never read my Wiki

, and therefore aren't doing your full background check.

The fact that you are both using outside the game influences now, bothers me. There's a reason why there's a general mafia discussion forum, and now I'm having shit given to me because I posted that question.

Now, follow me here. Meta, by nature,

is bad

is an outside influence of a specific game. You were quick to say "look at my meta!" as a defense when questioned. Yet, on the other side:

I would pop in to read up when I had a chance, but I didn't have any time to respond. I'm pretty sure you all have had times like this when you've played. But as I said earlier, I've never once dropped from a game or have I been replaced. Actually, I've replaced into a great number of games.

If I have something come up, I always let the mods know and I post in the V/LA thread. Just because someone's V/LA doesn't mean they can't at least read and stay up on things. Also, I have games going on that are moving very slow compared to this one, so it wasn't too hard to stay up on that. But I guess it doesn't matter.

At this point, he's using outside the game influences and not anything that's happened in the game.

As I said before, if you guys want to lynch me. I'll make it easy for you.

Unvote
Vote: Starbuck

I'm against self votes but this is getting ridiculous.

It's obvious that I'll never win this argument and I'm done. This game has become super unfun for me having a person in a town neighbors team with me that never showed up and cost us our ability, coming clean about all of that and still being doubted,

and then having outside influences being used as a case

.

If you want to hammer me or have me hammer me after this, I'm fine with that. I just want to help the town garner info and I think I have here. Unfortunately, my schedule did get in the way and I'll make sure never to play a game with Tjoe again for using outside of the game influences. It's fucking weak. Apparently, you can't even fucking check the site when you are V/LA and keep up on your slow moving games. Are we done analyzing my personal life and my real life? Or do we need to keep going over and over this?

Are we going to keep letting stuff happening outside of the game fuck up what's going on inside the game?

How so? I'm asking a general question in the Mafia Discussion and I didn't name any of my roles. I'm also in six games currently. Should I have waited until I'm not playing any games to ask a general question? I thought that was what that forum was for.

If you read my Wiki, the games I'm currently in are listed but with no information about them other than what the game is, the mod, and the number of players.

Sounds like you are trying to pull a Tjoe by using things that are outside this game.

Also about #3, it wasn't anything to do with the games I'm currently in. My guess is that you have never read my Wiki, and therefore aren't doing your full background check.

The fact that you are both using outside the game influences now, bothers me.

There's a reason why there's a general mafia discussion forum, and now I'm having shit given to me because I posted that question.

Yea, I think that about sums that up.

NEXT

4.) A confirmed scum flipping who's only real mention of you was defensive in nature then bolstered by your only real interaction

again being defensive

is a scumtell. It's one I'd lynch on every time.

Even if its wrong (which again, I doubt) its still a legitimate tell. Pushing it as otherwise is woosh.

5.) I've posted TOO many words to want to go into this in detail but lets look at it:

1.) I post a case on SK.
2.) DJ jumps on.
3.) SK attacks DJ.
4.) I go what the hell?
5.) SK flips scum.

1.) Mord posts a case on you.
2.) I and DJ jump on.
3.) Starbuck attacks DJ.
4.) I again go what the hell?
5.) Well, we're not here yet but guess what I done expect to be here!

[SpyreX]

Ohh yea the tl;dr version:

Talk some, then lynch Starbuck. Win prizes.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX: What's the relevance of your fifth point (that both SK and SB went after DJ when they were in trouble)? It's doubtful they coordinated that defensive mechanism in QuickTopic - is it just that DJ's an easy target for them to try to divert suspicion to?

I dont think (although I'll admit I go back and forth on it) that SK and DJ were bussing.

Thus, by nature, I find DJ to be town.

So, watching someone perform the same dog-and-pony show that scum just did is :bonk:.

But, yes, the basic idea is the "scumhunting" isn't genuine and its just pointing at what would be an obvious target.

[SpyreX]

1. You could go through every single person's posts and find someone who they maybe have mentioned once or twice.

I could? I could go through and find 60 posts without really mentioning someone and then them coming out to defend said player?

2. You realize that afatchic corrected me after that because he used whatever that Ani said last before he was modkilled. I NEVER SAID "He wasn't a survivor, he was a doctor". I threw out a theory, and I was wrong, and I admit it. Most mods when they modkill make that person (whether scum or not) a neutral survivor. You've been on this site long enough that you should know that. Way to misrepresent me yet again.

No, you never SAID that "He wasn't a survivor, he was a doctor". But, we're not playing semantics. The implication is very clear. Lets go look at the way back machine (paraphrase style):

SpyreX: Two kills after a

survivor

flip points at not an SK, but a vig.
Starbuck: I do not think ani was a survivor. (Quotes flavor, BOLDS doctor). Further, I don't like your assumption.

Now, at that point you

very, very clearly

were implying what you just said you never said (Posts 320 and 321 if someone wants to look at this debacle).

Now, lets get to the other half of this - the giant Appeal to Authority.

You are right - I've been around the block some on here. In 30+ games I can not think of ONE instance outside of this game apparently where a modkill didn't have the flip. If I get my druthers I'll go check your games and when that comes up nil just vote yourself.

So, yea, where in the name of anything is there even a pretending at a misrepresentation? Are you saying you never implied he was a doctor? Are you saying you somehow rectified that this was a theory before you used it to try and save SK?

3. My Wiki can show the fact that I've never been replaced, and that I do more replacing into games than I start from the beginning. For my iso 17, 19, and 39, that was during the time that Tjoe was trying to use outside the game influences about my posting on me, and iso 101 is when Mordy was reading my general mafia discussion thread. He only read that thread so I asked him if he ever read my Wiki to see what I was talking about in that thread. If you read that thread, and then read my Wiki, you will see what I am talking about.

Again iso 42, 43, 47 are about Tjoe's case, he WAS going after me for stuff outside the game, and 99, 101 again, were because Mordy was using a thread that I posted outside the game and wasn't referring to any of my current roles.

This part alone is chock full of misrepresentation of me because OUTSIDE INFLUENCES were being used repeatedly.

Meta is an outside influence.

You are double-handledly attempting to use meta as a defense from a case on avoiding the thread AND then condemning attacks that come from "outside influence".

Further, the point of that was simple. You accused me of strawmanning you by saying you've used meta when you haven't. You have. Be it in defense of "outside influences" or what have you this is what you've done.

Its a can of worms once opened that works both way. You are using it as a tool for survival, plain and simple. That does not fly.

4. Yes, I know how damning it looks, but seriously, if I was scum with him, do you think that I would defend him at L-1? Absolutely not. I'd be doing whatever I could to distance myself from him, which is exactly what his partner/s did.

Its not often I actually get to bring this out - but, hello WIFOM how are you today?

Further, if this is

exactly

what his partners did how does that equate to DJ's play if he is scum?

Double further, if you are now admitting that it "looks damning" why was your first response to say that

it is not a scumtell?

5. So how does this make any sense?

How does voting for DJ after what you did make sense as town looking for scum versus scum trying to survive?

How does, if town, not taking umbrage at the case but DJ make sense

after watching the flipped scum

do the exact same thing?

How does voting for DJ over other players make sense with what you've said in this post?

[SpyreX]

Woosh. Looks like I get to do a lot of posting up in here. Good. Starbuck first.

You could go through every person in this game's iso and find someone who they really didn't talk about much. Quit taking my words out of context.

Go for it. Pick me. Go through. Find someone I don't talk about much and

then when I do I defend.

Have a ball with that.

How is the implication clear? It's not.

So why would the following not be an SK, but a vig? This is quite WIFOM-y.

I did mention here that I did acknowledge the fact of a third party. I said SK, but it could very well not be an SK.

If you are telling me there is no implication in that quoted post that you think he is a doctor and not a survivor I don't know what to tell you. I'd love others to look at it because if that's what you're holding onto then you posted that arguing with me for the sake of arguing. Which, again, is awesome.

Considering the stance I took, the idea of a Survivor / SK / Mafia Group (under the assumation of 3 mafia) in a mini seem unbalanced hence that kill would have been from a vig. How in the blue blazes is that WIFOM.

but I was looking for the post in which you said it in, and I cannot find it. Can you link me please?

Sure. http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=320

Although, since this is the post RIGHT ABOVE the one we're talking about this is code for I'm not even looking at what I posted then. Fine, though.

I said that I "DON'T THINK" that he was a neutral survivor. I NEVER once said that he couldn't be. Way to strawman.

No. What am I strawmanning this time? Keep on keeping on with the buzzwords.

But, again, if posting to refute my stance plus bolding the word doctor does not mean that you thought he was a doctor (I never implied nor explicitly said definites anywhere so at heart this argument doesn't even make sense but) well, swish.

I implied that he wasn't a neutral survivor.

At first (because of the flavor in his kill post), I assumed that he was a doctor because that's what afatchic had written him up as saying. Afatchic later corrects us and says that he just used whatever was the last thing that Ani said. The last thing that Ani said was that he was a doctor, so I figured that since this whole game is PRs that Afatchic would not reveal Ani's role to us, and therefore paint them as a neutral survivor. I have seen this done once before in the Large Theme Death Note game that I played in. A modkill occurred and the mod didn't reveal the role of the person and just said they were a Neutral Survivor.

My posts about the SK lynch can be found in 577 and 583. I said "Animo said was that he was Vin, doctor (I know, I know, bad bad name claims but it's out there). How likely is it that Vin would be a doctor?". Who are you referring to in your question? You say "he" but you don't say whether you are referring to SK or to Animo.

I think you are mixing up what I said about SK and what I said about Animo.

The bolded... I... you just got done IN THIS POST saying more than once that there was no implication and that I was strawmanning you and WIFOMING and whatever the hell else... and then just said you did.

It..brain... melt... halp me.

And once before you've seen a modkill flip that way. Once before. That is the new "you should know SpyreX" nudge at me making things up to get you lynched. Awesome. Just. Awesome.

As for the latter. You have just said right up here that your assumation was that he was a doctor. And then said nothing else about it. Until you came out to defend SK.

I'm not mixing anything up.

How is the fact that I never have been replaced and that I replace into more games than I start part of my meta? It's fact, and can be easily found out. I would think meta is how you play and how you act in game, not how you end up in a game either by starting it from the beginning or replacing in.

That is meta. I don't know what else to tell you. Meta, the short hand for metagaming, is using outside information to alter the state of a game.

Saying "look at my wiki" is meta.
Tjoe's "outside influences" is meta.
My calling you out about posting 13 times when you were working on your reread is meta.

So, you have been fairly consistent on meta = good when its for me and meta = bad when its against me.

How does it equate to everyone?

Let's look at all the bandwagons shall we?

Day 1 - Before the modkill, we have this:

animorpherv1-(6)-Faraday, RossWilliam, Doombunny9,

don_johnson, SpyerX, MordyS

Day 2 -

Shadow Knight-(5)-

SpyerX,

Boxman,

don_johnson, MordyS

, JereIC

Day 3 -

Starbuck-(4)-

MordyS, SpyerX, don_johnson,

Boxman

Look who's all on bandwagons every single day.

So, what you're saying is scum hasn't been lynched and we three are the scum? Or that DJ being on 1.5 finished wagons that have lynched a scum makes him scum? Or?

You said that SK's partners would be trying to distance from him. Distance = bussing then?

When did I say that it didn't look damning? Please refer to Post 597 because this is not a new revelation as you claim it to be.

Wow I must have made that up. Wait. Lets look up at this page (730) for my first response to this:

4. Someone not talking about someone else isn't always a scum tell

WELP.

Because DJ has committed some very questionable behavior as I highlighted in my iso read of him, and I'm not the only one who has thought so, see Post 737.

Yea, the flipped scum sure went after him as scum.
The example you gave was very hands up in the air.
However, it really is moot. Considering my POWARS DJ has put himself in ultimately an unwinnable situation if he is scum. So.

I really don't get the wording of this question. Can you rephrase please?

SK jumped all crazy pants all over DJ in an effort to try and save himself. You have opted to do the exact same thing. Patterns do have meaning.

Because I do find DJ to be the scummiest, but as of late you are starting to creep up there as well.

I'm scum, the scoop is in!

If I get my druthers, I'll go ahead and do a review on the correlation between who Starbuck thinks is scum and who thinks Starbuck is scum.

(Hint: the result is going to be a million billion)

Now on to other things.

[SpyreX]

Would afatchic have noticed this if DJ hadn't pointed it out? Maybe, maybe not. At the end of the day, though, this was entirely un-necessary. Requesting a mod-kill on a claimed doctor? Not pro-town. Not pro-town at all.

If I had been up on the rules I would have done it too (I have this bad habit of not reading the rules though sooo). Is it pro-town? It really depends. If we had a real flip and it WAS scum DJ would have been all but confirmed.

---

MordyS's 753 I like. What with the sense and all.

---

Misrepresentation AGAIN. I'm not saying a townie wouldn't get off the wagon. I'm saying a townie wouldn't put a vote on as you did with NO reasoning, purely for the claim, then jump off again.

I'd totally do that. Just sayin'.

---

As for anim ultimately as awesome as it would be for him to be scum I'm assuming (after the mod edicts) that he was town and thus was what he claimed to be.

Assuming the worst case scenario makes sure there's no april fools style secret lylo and hell if I'm wrong and he is scum well all the better.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX, holding you up as a model of townie play is like holding zwetschenwasser up as a model of consistency. IT. JUST. DOESN'T. WORK.

Well that was mean.

Actually, what in the hell does that mean? I'm anti-town? I dont play "like a townie"?

And, fault zwet on many things - he is consistent.

But, yes, if its in the rules I'd spike for a modkill because thats the rules. If there was someone who was hand-wringing about a claim I would spike them up to get the claim and move on.

Kudos to the pair of posts though.

[SpyreX]

EBWOP: If I was prescient and knew that the modflip was going to be ???? I would grind my teeth and then still ask for the modkill.

And, back to 100% rooted in sense:

KoC,

I'm assuming since you haven't said otherwise Tjoe's claim is what you're sticking to. Yes no.
What do you think about Starbuck's play? I see a lot of attack on DJ but not a whole lot on Starbuck.

[SpyreX]

Ok, time for a different approach:

(as an aside, what is w/r/t)

We saw two kills day 1 and no kills day 2. Faraday and I have both claimed to have reason to believe the kills were on us and stopped (without giving reasons why).

One of those two kills is mafia.
The other kill is, probably barring madness, an SK or a Vig.

So, at this point the first question(s) are:

1.) Do you believe that I am town?
2.) Do you believe that Faraday is town?

If yes, lets move on:

IF you believe both, the second kill is(or better freaking be) not a Vig. So we are looking at an SK - Mafia setup. With the vanillaless this means we're looking at 8-3-1 more likely than not.

DJ makes very little sense as an SK. (If we want to go into reasons for this I can expand but I'm trying to keep it shorter).

So, really the question is: is DJ mafia?

Now, considering the interaction between DJ and SK I think this is a resounding no. However, lets assume one doesn't agree with that:

If I am town and DJ is scum, DJ can not win the game. Yes, I am guaranteeing that in a 3 person lylo I would drop the hammer on him so fast it'd make ones eyes bleed.

Hence, on top of my belief that DJ is town, his interactions have neutered himself if he was actually scum so I'm not worried.

---

That said, lets drop him from the equation:

Starbuck - Neighbor (Vanilla now)
Faraday - (Recieved Invention, KoC)
SpyreX - Awesome
JereIC - (Recieved Invention, KoC)
Knights of Cydonia - (Gave Inventions both nights)
Boxman - ?
MordyS - ?

So, lets SAY that DJ is scum (which makes this a tighter spread). In the above we're looking at an SK and a Mafiate.

KoC makes little sense as either (barring really weird setup mechanics like an SK-Inventor who kills and gives inventions).
Faraday stepped up and kept Tjoe off the block and although I'd love to see more out of him I'll swing town up on this one.
I'm, again, awesome.

So, I'm really looking at:
Starbuck
JereIC
Boxman
MordyS

Now things get a little stickier:

Looking at Starbucks ebb and flow of this game and the interactions with SK, yea, I'm down.

Mordy shifted a wagon off Box based on some early information to Starbuck. Now, the ONLY scenario that doesn't make sense to me in this would be Mordy-scum, Starbuck-scum. I could Mordy-scum shifting of Box-scum to a mislynch. I'd have a hard time buying Mordy-SK doing ANYTHING in this situation as its a gamble thats hard to make.

Boxman comes in after the wagon derails, makes a few noises and vanishes. Not a fan.

JereIC again, not contributing.

Of these four the one I would NOT lynch today is Mordy. JereIC gives me the itch (Hint, Vigs go here) but really it comes down to:

Starbuck
Boxman

I think Starbuck has a moderately higher chance of being scum. The neighbor claim and the track being what they are I could see an early push to track someone scummy (like SK) and the kill being there to stop that from happening. And, well, this whole debacle today.

Boxman still unravels a bit more of the setup if scum - it'd be hard pressed not to turbo lynch Mordy for it.

However, I'd put the chances at there being at least one scum in that final two being mega high. Hell, I could even put decent chances at them both being scum.

JereIC gives me the itch in that "I'm an SK on cruise control for cool" way.

[SpyreX]

I think Starbuck made a bad start, yes, and I agree she has been far too quiet, but I expect being posted to Italy would put a crimp in most people's posting routines on this site. There's stuff early on I'd wonder about, and would warrant a closer look if we reach LyLo, but I don't rank her anywhere near as scummy as don_johnson, who I believe is more than likely the best lynch for today.

Assuming both kills go through and a 8-3-1 setup if there are no crosskills tomorrow IS lylo.

I'm still a little stung at the snipe at me and I'm trying to not let that cloud things but I don't get being that forgiving on Starbuck (especially since by any reasonable measure Italy hasn't been a factor in overall-site contribution) AND that abrasive towards DJ.

But, I was thinking more specifics. If you think Starbuck is town then my back and forth must not be convincing and I'd love to know what in there isn't.

[SpyreX]

* and we don't lynch scum today of course.

[SpyreX]

The thing is that it wasn't an uber-bus as much as attaching himself to my hip.

I'm thinking SK went down in a blaze of glory and both of his "WIFOM" attempts were on town: Faraday and DJ.

I'm interested in the answer to that after your needing clarification with the mod because I thought the answer was straightforward?

[SpyreX]

... huh

WELP, that about settles it. KoC is confirmed town as far as I'm concerned.

Now Tjoe's empowerer business makes a lot more sense.

(Needless to say that wasn't what I was expecting)

[SpyreX]

You know what, Mr. Awesome? You want me dead, you make a case and cast a vote. Just because you've got DJ doing everything you say doesn't mean you can expect a vig to do the same.

Sure can. Sure do. If we pin down the not-scum kill and they've killed a funny kill then they'll dangle.

Yea, thats right. I direct power roles. What up now.

You'll get your case when its time for your case. Starbuck is for now.

[SpyreX]

Instead of being an arrogant, ignorant ass (yes, I know full of ad hom, but it's what I feel at the moment), why don't you just answer a question? Before this game, I really enjoyed playing with you, now I won't ever be in a game that you or DJ are in. So where I have I been abrasive at any point other than trying to deal with how awful you two have been to me all game? The game of mafia is supposed to be heated, yes, but you guys have been nothing but rude, untactful, and have made this game very unenjoyable.

I read that post, but I wasn't sure if you were referring to a completely different one, which is why I asked you for the link.

Lets take a moment to go out of game.

I don't have a problem with you. At all. Hell, I can count on one hand the number of players I actually have a problem with.

My abrasiveness is simply a function of the discussion we're having. It's not that you asked a question - it is that you insinuated that, again, I was simply making things up. However, I am not one to namecall or snipe at you personally.

The second quote is saying that you have been in Italy for long enough that it isn't a function of moving there or a radical adjustment in your day-to-day affairs that would cause a shift in play. Especially since you aren't lurking.

So, if you think I am being rude to you I am apologizing for that. It is a game, and we should have fun.

---

That said I do still think you are scum.

[SpyreX]

If you are town Starbuck and could take someone with you on your way down who would it be?

Who would be the second choice?

[SpyreX]

I could dig. It'll be an interesting night, fo sho.

No hard feelings, eh?

[SpyreX]

Ohh hay look at that boxman was the SK, funny thing, that.

I'll be real surprised if this is anything but an 8-2-1-1 setup. 7-3-1-1 makes us sad in the head meats.

Anywho:

I'll be voting JereIC barring something mystical.

Thanks KoC for the fat packages yo.

[SpyreX]

Let me further my theory:

We've seen an SK and a survivor flip. So, if we were looking at 3 mafia then, technically, we were looking a game that was lost at start.

So, instead, we are pretty much fo sho' at 2 scum. With one dead.

This further clears DJ in my mind.

KoC -not- choosing to give an invention to his partner if scum makes little sense - nor does a role that, so far, sure doesn't seem to be hurting the people he's giving it to. So, yea, pretty smooth up there.

Mordy diverted a wagon off an SK for legit reasons, considering how loud I've been it would have been easy to ride my wake as it were.

Which leaves us JereIC, lord of the apologetic.

Massclaim could work, not really worried though. This one be done yo'

[SpyreX]

Who did you commute?

I am lord of the awesomes. By that I mean BP, if one hadn't guessed. (I can get into specifics but making sure no modkill tomfoolery).

[SpyreX]

Now, see, funny thing with it being day 4 and you claiming one action.

[SpyreX]

Can't be NK'd - although that is a simplified version of it, but.

Am I getting commuter confused with something else again? What exactly does it do?

[SpyreX]

OHH. So you leave town, not hide behind someone. Hmm, boo on that.

Well, just waiting for DJ. Then, a quick parse and we grease this pig (like I said I HAVE to operate under the premise that its 8-2-1-1 not 7-3-1-1 for balance although I don't think it changes too much either way).

[SpyreX]

Target?

Sheesh, I mean seriously I've had to do this with EVERY claim you goofs.

Why Faraday?

[SpyreX]

...

I leave for a day and you crazies up and WIN THE GAME.

Grats.

P.S. I'm a liar faced liar and totally was only a 1 shot.

[SpyreX]

Well, hot damn. It WAS 7-3-1-1. Scaaryy, depending on what the setup is.

We'll have to see.

[SpyreX]

After we see night actions, roles and mod comments (and QT's )I'll come back here and give my two cents on everything.

I think I played a pretty solid game. Thank god. I'd been in a funk.

[SpyreX]

It would have changed very little overall I think - I had another BP, I would have been lynching JereIC and Box.

[SpyreX]

So some end game notes.

Setup: This setup is scary. Although after seeing what the survivors wincon was, its not as much of an issue. However, I'd have to do the numbers but I think there was a definite possibility for town to be up the creek after just one mislynch (or, day 2 lylo fo sho).

However, with the number of BP's and action-cancellers that wouldn't be a normal result so.

The raw number of BP's and one-shots makes for an interesting dynamic but it does make it frustrating for scum and sk alike.

Play:

I'm gonna take some hate for this, but by the end of the day I was more confident than not Starbuck was going to flip town. However, I couldn't justify pushing that wagon a different direction - in no small part due to that thread Mordy found.

In general, the biggest thing I think that pushed that lynch through was the attitude towards questioning - it isn't always clear what someone MEANS when they say something and a key piece of not getting the noose in those situations is looking at it objectively and addressing concerns from a neutral standpoint versus assuming you're being attacked by scum.

We got pretty lucky overall in that the scum didn't play badly but they all suffered from some level of apathy - no scum was really an active part of the game. That pattern, once found, causes a lot of issues.

KoC was town as all getout coupled with a role that made NO sense as scum. That was pretty easy.

DJ was a bit of a crazy, but ultimately after SK attacked him in that fashion and being attached to my hip made the chance of him being scum minimal (and, even if so the chance of winning minimal).

Mordy, I had good gut vibes from you most of the game. I like the play.