Mini 878: Nouns Mafia - Da game is ovah!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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I hereby understand and confirm my role.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Vote: MacavityLockfor being my scumbuddy in Mini 698.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Sounds as good as anything else right nowelvis_knits wrote:scumteam = sensfan, boxman, macavitylock
confirm or deny?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Boxman wrote:Wee. Not much going on is there?Unvote: MacavityLockfor stating the obvious. Why sit on the sidelines when there's lot of opportunity to start the ball rolling?
Vote: BoxmanSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Why does your avatar look familiar, Seol?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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That's a possibility.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I dislike the bandwagon stage myself, actually. SensFan is certainly not guilty of the worst scumtell in the world, but when a serious vote happens, it's time for everyone else to get serious also. It's kind of hard to call my vote on Boxman a second random vote, though I was aware of the unlikelihood that he'd be lynched on that alone. Seol's vote is clearly serious, and I am led to believe he interpreted mine as so. I'm with Parhelic here—I know the site meta, but I like reasons too.Netopalis wrote:Because it's customary on this site to start a bandwagon against someone for no reason during the first few pages of the game to put pressure on them then watch their reaction. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but there are certain players who will defend it rather vehemently, so I usually just go with it now.
Also, be careful saying that certain votes are for pressure—they lose their effectiveness as such if you say so out loud.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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You seemed to just go with the flow. You still had a neutral read afterward, but again, I'm not all for the bandwagon stage.SensFan wrote:SC, why are you assuming my vote isn't serious?
I love how you call a scumtell weak and then make two points against him supporting the tell.elvis_knits wrote:The boxman wagon does not look random to me. It looks to be based on a weak scumtell. I don't know how others see boxman's post 31, but to me it's boxman posting without content, posting without trying to advance the game or scum hunt, and possibly the worst sin of all -- making my sensfan bandwagon look silly!
FoS: elvis_knitsSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I correctly interpreted elvis_knits as not believing that the Boxman wagon was random. I'm attacking her for supporting the attack for a scumtell she says is weak, which made little sense to me.mathcam wrote:
I thought this is at first, too -- Though I'd like to hear what elvis has to say about this, I think this is a misinterpretation. I think she's emphasizing that it's not aSC wrote:I love how you call a scumtell weak and then make two points against him supporting the tell.randomwagonbecausethere's a scumtell that's prompting it (even if that scumtell is pretty weak).
I actually think refusing to partake in discussion is pretty strong as it's anti-information.elvis_knits wrote:
I didn't mean weak in the sense that it doesn't matter. I think it's entirely appropriate to go after weak tells in the beginning of the game. I didn't mean it as a criticism, only as a means of measurement. The second sentence was to show you what exactly about the post I thought was a weak scum tell. Again, weak doesn't mean "bad" but rather just not strong.StrangerCoug wrote:
You seemed to just go with the flow. You still had a neutral read afterward, but again, I'm not all for the bandwagon stage.SensFan wrote:SC, why are you assuming my vote isn't serious?
I love how you call a scumtell weak and then make two points against him supporting the tell.elvis_knits wrote:The boxman wagon does not look random to me. It looks to be based on a weak scumtell. I don't know how others see boxman's post 31, but to me it's boxman posting without content, posting without trying to advance the game or scum hunt, and possibly the worst sin of all -- making my sensfan bandwagon look silly!
FoS: elvis_knitsSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I already addressed this as him looking like he was just going with the flow.elvis_knits wrote:What do you think about sensfan not explaining his boxman vote? I think that's anti-informational.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I thought it had been established that Boxman's not very likely to be lynched on just opting to sit out, as much as I like the tell. You're panicking over an L-4 for little reason.Netopalis wrote:5) Because there's not enough evidence to lynch, but I'm scared that we're pushing down that route.
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Something rings false with Netopalis's case on SensFan, but I can't pinpoint it exactly.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Post #156, it looks like the problem is.Netopalis wrote:I'm all ears if you want to point it out.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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#156 was Netopalis attacking SensFan, therefore I construed it as part of the former's case on the latter.Iecerint wrote:What does 156 have to do with his case on SF? Or am I just assuming you were implying it did?
What leads you to this thinking?mathcam wrote:I think you're less likely to forget about a game as scum than as town.Unvote: Boxman.
Vote: SensFan.
Cam
This comes directly after a post where SensFan brings up OMGUS. OMGUS is voicing suspicion of a player just because he or she voiced suspicion of you. Either you misunderstand the term or the last part of what I quoted implies a misrepresentation of SensFan.Netopalis wrote:*shrugs* I started suspecting you because you failed to provide logic, not because you weren't attacking me.
This makes a lot of sense.SensFan wrote:Let us assume I'm a Cop, neto.
If I am forced to make a list, I am forced to either place any Innocents I have on my Town section, or risk really screwing with people's attempts to figure out my targets if I die before I claim.
If everyone has Joey on their Town list, it tells the Scum Joey's probably not lynchable, something that is invaluable to them. If we just post who we find suspicious, there's probably 4-6 people that don't appear on anybody's list, and they could all potentially be lynchable.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Looking back, one of SensFan's posts happens to have intervened between yours and Netopalis's. That must be why I thought Net was addressing Sens and not you.Iecerint wrote:
This is Neto's 156. He's explaining why he thinks my asking questions of players I suspect is scummy. Did you misinterpret this post, or did you mean to refer to some other post?Netopalis, 156 wrote:It's potentially scummy because a lot of your questions were really nitpicky. They seemed to be rather aggressive and, in a few cases, regarding things that just didn't matter. That being said, I only said it was potentially scummy, and it will be reevaluated as you play.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Unvote: Boxmanand demote him to aMajor HoS
Vote: Netopalis
The end of page 10 looks a lot like he's trying too hard to look town. #247 is awful.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Konowa wrote:@Stranger, expand on your 252. Why does the end of page 10 make you change your vote to Net?
OK, looking harder at this, he says he's trying to find a happy medium between two extremes. OK, but why did I originally read this as "I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't?" It's hard to figure out his mindset here, and it doesn't come off as natural.Netopalis wrote:And as for my illogical thing on Sens, I guess it was really just a reaction to his stated policy of not giving reasoning/posting his thoughts. In retrospect, I probably should have backed down a bit earlier....But I was attacked in a recent game for backing down on an argument too easily. I guess I'm trying to find the line where backing down isn't considered anti-town play vs. where pressing too doggedly is anti-town play.
This is the awful post I speak of as it implies support for lynching village idiots. Do that and scum has an easy win.Netopalis wrote:Well, a townie who always shows up as scummy isn't much help, are they? They just get in the way....
Am I the only person reading this as Net going with the flow?Netopalis wrote:Fair enough, I guess....STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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That's all fine and dandy. Maybe there's nothing wrong with the last post I quoted.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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He had already told me that he was referring to himself and not advocating policy lynching.elvis_knits wrote:
I read that differently. I will reserve my interpretation of it until Neto clarifies, though, just in case.StrangerCoug wrote:
This is the awful post I speak of as it implies support for lynching village idiots. Do that and scum has an easy win.Netopalis wrote:Well, a townie who always shows up as scummy isn't much help, are they? They just get in the way....
Neto... what did you mean?
I brought my own interpretation of the post into question because I felt it one of my weaker reads on him. That's why I was happy to simply take Neto countering me with the exact opposite—the answer to my question may very well be yes, I'm the only person interpreting the post that way.mathcam wrote:
I'm inclined to think that you would take anything Neto said and find it scummy. Not that you don't have any valid points, but I think it's unlikely thatSC wrote:Am I the only person reading this as Net going with the flow?everythingNeto says is scummy, even if he is. Once I find myself thinking that way about someone's posts, I usually think it's time to start being conscious of my own confirmation bias.
While Iecerint's post is noted, I don't think it's all that scummy for him to say unless he's lying about a completed game.elvis_knits wrote:Also:
Iecerint wrote:I've never been scum on this site
How much have you played?
In other news, Boxman's blatant lurking is getting on my nerves.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I'm not saying it is; to support it would be an example of the gambler's fallacy. It surprises me too that you say that, though.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Unvote: Netopalis
Vote: Boxman
You are done avoiding this game like the plague. Claim or die.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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We're now split right down the middle with everyone voting. I'm happy with either lynch (and Net's claim is hard to wrap my head around), but Boxman or whoever's replacing him needs to get the heck in here and post something worthwhile.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Now I trust Lynch All Lurkers a little more seeing that Hoopla, who replaced my biggest suspect, got bombed.
I have to go to work now, so I'll make my big post in a minute, but something doesn't look right about Percy. elvis_knits is on the suspicious side with #326 also.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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EBWOP: "In a minute" should be when I get back. I don't post from work.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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You asked why I didn't get off a scum wagon in favor of a town one. In light of both deaths, you could easily have been buddying Boxman.elvis_knits wrote:
Why?StrangerCoug wrote:elvis_knits is on the suspicious side with #326 also.
I liked both as scum, but believed Boxman to be more so. I also felt my Boxman case was more solid.elvis_knits wrote:And why didn't you hammer again?
You are out of your mind. To answer your question, the more fake information scum gives us that we catch as such, the more rope we can tie them up with. On the other hand, if we don't allow town to post useful information, it's us that's hurt. Boxman didn't give us a whole lot; he was scum. You're not advocating much in terms of information; as what alignment do you think I like you? (Hint:elvis_knits wrote:
Moreover, this post stinks to high heaven to me.StrangerCoug wrote:We're now split right down the middle with everyone voting. I'm happy with either lynch (and Net's claim is hard to wrap my head around), but Boxman or whoever's replacing him needs to get the heck in here and post something worthwhile.
Me and others thought there was something wrong with the claim and so wanted Net dead ASAP, so we could hopefully lynch scum and also to limit the amount of role info that got discussed.
Why did you want to extend the day by waiting for the Boxman replacement?Vote elvis_knits)
Before anyone goes there: Netopalis already claimed stethoscope, vanilla townie. You can't rolefish for information already there, and there wasn't much else Netopalis could have said anyway.
No, "Neto is trying too hard to look town" is not the most horrible reason in the universe. Being pro-town should come naturally. If you're stumbling, that's a scumtell.elvis_knits wrote:But when he switched his vote to NEtopalis, he gave the most horrible reason in the universe "Neto is trying too hard to look town."
I don't get the Boxman/Netopalis case on me. Seriously.
That I chose not to straight-up call my first vote serious is conceded. As you quoted, I didn't expect Boxman lynched on that alone, though that was strong reasoning against him.Seol wrote:Strangercoug: First vote on Boxman. I'm a little uncomfortable with:
That strikes me as awfully careful word choice - why not just say his vote was serious, that implies that my impression it was serious wasStrangercoug wrote:It's kind of hard to call my vote on Boxman a second random vote, though I was aware of the unlikelihood that he'd be lynched on that alone. Seol's vote is clearly serious, andI am led to believe he interpreted mine as so.justmy impression, and not the intent.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Didn't I already refute this? By "trying too hard", I mean he comes off unnatural. If I ever said anything along the lines of "Oh, Netopalis has blended in with the town quite nicely, so I'll go after him", then you have a legitimate case.Iecerint wrote:2town4town is literally the lamest, laziest "scumtell" ever, especially in the absence of meta. Hell, it's probably true of literally almost all town players. Town should almost always play town; being "too town" is not scummy. By that logic, I should start playing scummier to help the town rule me out as a possible scum player. Doesn't make any sense, right?
If you meant something else -- like, "Neto did X thinking it would seem town, but town players wouldn't really do X; town players would do Y. So Neto is scummy." -- it may be a valid tell, but that's not how your post reads IMO.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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We'll start on my Percy case by asking him to prove that the order in which Netopalis and Boxman die mattered.Percy wrote:I think those voting Neto need to provide me with reasons as to why Boxman shouldn't go first.
It took me awhile to read #245 as something other than "HELP! If I do this, town will go after me, and if I do that, town will go after me!", most especially.elvis_knits wrote:How was Neto unnatural, in that case?
#247 didn't look right either. Neto said the record straight for me by denying that it was advocating policy lynching village idiots and saying that it was instead referring to himself, which adds to #245's problem.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I was actually going to question Percy's calling out mathcam's vote on Boxman at #240 and why it's distancing, but reading it in context, I understand his stance.elvis_knits wrote:
That doesn't sound like you really have a lot to say on Percy if all you can come up with is one question. I wonder why you advertised some "big post." I feel cheated.StrangerCoug wrote:
We'll start on my Percy case by asking him to prove that the order in which Netopalis and Boxman die mattered.Percy wrote:I think those voting Neto need to provide me with reasons as to why Boxman shouldn't go first.
Which is why I said it took me awhile to read #245 as not being panicky. That can also be added to my explanation as to why I favored lynching Boxman over Net.elvis_knits wrote:
Everything Neto said was being blown out of proportion and he literally was getting attacked no matter what he said. Haven't you ever had that experience as town? I know I have.SC wrote:
It took me awhile to read #245 as something other than "HELP! If I do this, town will go after me, and if I do that, town will go after me!", most especially.elvis_knits wrote:How was Neto unnatural, in that case?
#247 didn't look right either. Neto said the record straight for me by denying that it was advocating policy lynching village idiots and saying that it was instead referring to himself, which adds to #245's problem.
Also, he never got all panicky and said stuff like "HELP!" You're overstating that. He actually stayed pretty calm throughout, IMO.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Stethoscope didn't and still doesn't seem to me like a name claim for a vanilla, so if I'm reading your question right, not really. Given two lynch options, I will favor the one I'm more confident with my case in. I'll note a bad claim, but if that's their worst crime I'd rather bet money on someone else being scum.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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You answered your own question there, Mac. Boxman did not want to participate and elected to waste our time. Somebody tell me Boxman's replacing out was not opportunistic.MacavityLock wrote:Up until the "Major HoS" from yesterday, your case on Boxman consisted of
Through the rest of the day, the only other times you mentioned Boxman wereStrangerCoug wrote:Vote: Boxmanfor stating the obvious. Why sit on the sidelines when there's lot of opportunity to start the ball rolling?StrangerCoug wrote:In other news, Boxman's blatant lurking is getting on my nerves.
And your Boxman case was more solid?StrangerCoug wrote:Vote: Boxman
You are done avoiding this game like the plague. Claim or die.
What case?StrangerCoug wrote:I also felt my Boxman case was more solid.
Other than what you've defended below, it's mostly gut. I may find something, I may not.Percy wrote:
*adjusts hair*StrangerCoug 334 wrote:something doesn't look right about Percy.
... elaborate, please.
Now I see what you were saying. I would be going as hard on Boxman today as I was yesterday if he were still alive; and had Net survived to make it to today I would likely have stopped pushing him by now.Percy wrote:
I've addressed this numerous times.StrangerCoug 364 wrote:prove that the order in which Netopalis and Boxman die mattered.
Boxman was scummy; to be perfectly honest, I thought Iecerint was worse yesterday, but he was worthy of more attention than he got. If we lynched Boxman and he flipped town, the case against Neto would be much less powerful - still there, but most definitely not a top priority.
Now consider today - if Boxman hadn't been bombed, the focus on Neto during the incident (and his subsequent townflip) may very well have given Boxman enough room to shrug his shoulders and escape notice, as attention would be divided with the mislynching wagon. Again we'd have to ask - were those pushing the Neto wagon trying to protect scum-Boxman, or was everyone horribly misled as both Neto and Box are town?
Convince me that you can reasonably balance a two- or three-person Mafia group, an SK which I'm led to believe is more specifically an arsonist, a vigilante, and a bomb with six or seven other town players.Iecerint wrote:Bombs kill the NKer, right? So BM NK'd SF and was himself killed. There are two sets of flavor on BM's death, which is why I think he was also vigged; the crater was probably the bomb flavor. I figured MC made more sense as an extra NK kill than an extra vig, but I was just guessing. Let me know if there is an obvious alternate interpretation of events, because, if so, it's probably clear to everyone else.
I'm scratching my head here. It probably makes some sort of sense, but the wording in the last sentence is awfully strong.elvis_knits wrote:My current theory is that SC is scum with Konowa, with big kahunia being a third party. Big K didn't seem to care which of boxman/net we lynched. He didn't really talk about anyone besides boxman/net yesterday, which leads me to believe he was not actually trying to scum hunt. He jumped on the biggest issue, pushed it forward without taking a big stance who was worse, and just sat there. Scum-o. If he were town, I would have expected at least a preference on which of boxman/net should die first, even if he thinks they're both scummy. So, that was a scummy was to replace into the game, but shows no preference between two wagons, one mafia, one town. Only an SK, who doesn't know if either is mafia, would show no allegiance.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I'm rolefishing for hypothetical setup information. How cute.Iecerint wrote:But that's just it -- if Neto was scummy just for BM-directed favoritism, then his behavior is only scummy if BM is scum, right? As such, BM would've been the obvious lynch. Did you not see it that way, or did you think Neto was also scummy for his own reasons, or what?
Regarding balancing, if that's all there is to it, I fail to see the balance problem SC's alluding to. SF can be hammered by town just fine; the bomb role helps town, but not to a degree that balancing is unimaginable. SC's question is just rolefishing as far as I can tell. I'm happy with voting him.
That said, I am not reasonably going to get a cop, doc, or any other crucial town role to say anything along the lines of "here I am" with my balancing question regardless of said power role's intelligence. I just think Mafia, bomb, vig, and SK is too heavy on ways to die in a 12-player—the Mafia could have lost on Night 1 out of sheer bad luck. Yes, luck plays some factor or other in a Mafia game, but it shouldn't beTHATstrong in my opinion.
It's also possible for BK to have thought that both were scum, but he liked a Box lynch better than a Net lynch.elvis_knits wrote:I will explain the SK thing in case it is unclear. SK's obviously don't have a link to mafia players. They can't be sure which players are mafia -- they want to get rid of mafia, hopefully by NK, while staying non-threatening during the day. So an SK is not necessarily going to try to save boxman. But they also don't really care who dies as long as it's not them. It's this sort of ambivalence, combined with lack of scum hunting that I see in BigK, that I think suggests he might be the SK.
Other than that, I don't understand your problem with my post or why you don't like it. Do you not understand what I mean? Do you disagree? You just take issue with my wording being too strong?
I don't understand your problem with it.
Your attack on me is anti-information. I don't like people just going "I've had enough, now die." Let people go into their spiels on how they're innocent, why they can't have done what they've been accused of, etc. Nobody has to believe a word that player says, but when the player is finally hammered, we have a whole bunch of his or her thought processes and/or why he or she should have been lynched. I don't see town motives in cutting people short.elvis_knits wrote:Nor do I understand why you voted me and continue to do so. Can you clarify why you are voting me? Because I don't really understand your reasoning in 356.
Is this english? What does it mean? Specifically, "You're not advocating much in terms of information." I don't know what you're accusing me of.SC wrote:
You are out of your mind. To answer your question, the more fake information scum gives us that we catch as such, the more rope we can tie them up with. On the other hand, if we don't allow town to post useful information, it's us that's hurt. Boxman didn't give us a whole lot; he was scum. You're not advocating much in terms of information; as what alignment do you think I like you? (Hint:elvis_knits wrote:
Moreover, this post stinks to high heaven to me.StrangerCoug wrote:We're now split right down the middle with everyone voting. I'm happy with either lynch (and Net's claim is hard to wrap my head around), but Boxman or whoever's replacing him needs to get the heck in here and post something worthwhile.
Me and others thought there was something wrong with the claim and so wanted Net dead ASAP, so we could hopefully lynch scum and also to limit the amount of role info that got discussed.
Why did you want to extend the day by waiting for the Boxman replacement?Vote elvis_knits)
Vote Count Three
StrangerCoug:3 (elvis_knits, Iecerint, MacavityLock)
Iecerint:2 (Percy, Konowa)
elvis_knits:1 (StrangerCoug)
MacavityLock:1 (Seol)
Not Voting:(big_kahunia)
8alive,5to lynch.
Deadline:Wednesday, December 2nd, 12:00 Noon ESTSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I interpreted Hoopla as only bombed, not also vigged.elvis_knits wrote:
So what was your point asking about balance? Do you have a different interpretation of night actions?StrangerCoug wrote:
I'm rolefishing for hypothetical setup information. How cute.Iecerint wrote:But that's just it -- if Neto was scummy just for BM-directed favoritism, then his behavior is only scummy if BM is scum, right? As such, BM would've been the obvious lynch. Did you not see it that way, or did you think Neto was also scummy for his own reasons, or what?
Regarding balancing, if that's all there is to it, I fail to see the balance problem SC's alluding to. SF can be hammered by town just fine; the bomb role helps town, but not to a degree that balancing is unimaginable. SC's question is just rolefishing as far as I can tell. I'm happy with voting him.
That said, I am not reasonably going to get a cop, doc, or any other crucial town role to say anything along the lines of "here I am" with my balancing question regardless of said power role's intelligence. I just think Mafia, bomb, vig, and SK is too heavy on ways to die in a 12-player—the Mafia could have lost on Night 1 out of sheer bad luck. Yes, luck plays some factor or other in a Mafia game, but it shouldn't beTHATstrong in my opinion.
I'm sorry, whose role other than Net's was being discussed between his claim and his lynch? If nobody's, what can scum deduce from a vanilla PM other than that person isn't a power role? I'melvis_knits wrote:
The whole point of lynching Net ASAP, was not because I "had enough" and just wanted him dead. That is a misrep of my why I, along with others who I think are town (mathcam we know is town, sensfan we know is town, seol I think is town), all decided Net should die pretty quickly. I wanted Net dead becasue 1)He claimed vanilla; and 2)I didn't want people discussing role PM's and giving hints to scum.StrangerCoug wrote:Your attack on me is anti-information. I don't like people just going "I've had enough, now die." Let people go into their spiels on how they're innocent, why they can't have done what they've been accused of, etc. Nobody has to believe a word that player says, but when the player is finally hammered, we have a whole bunch of his or her thought processes and/or why he or she should have been lynched. I don't see town motives in cutting people short.
So you are accusing me of being anti-informational, when the information I was trying to protect was information that would be directly harmful to town if scum got a hold of it. This was clearly stated at the time.
I can see no town motivation for prolonging discussion at that time when everything that people could have said would help scum.STILLnot making heads or tails out of this.
Edit: Tags fixed according to post below.
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Mod: Fix my quote tags please. That last quote that's marked as elvis_knits is actually mine, and there needs to be a quote tag right before that and after "...stated at the time."
I tried to do what I thought you wanted me to, let me know if I got it wrong.
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Did I miss something? "How do you balance this?" ≠ "What can scum deduce from a vanilla role?"Iecerint wrote:You've already asked that question, and I've already pointed out the circumstances where doing so could be advantageous to scum regardless of Neto's alignment. Read my last few posts directed at you.
Not one that leads me to believe anybody is a certain alignment right now, no. elvis_knits and others think Boxman was vigged; I disagree. Do I believe elvis_knits to be scum because she disagrees with me about the existence of a vig? No, and if I did, I'd need to be hanged for it.Seol wrote:I'm not sure where this overnight kill discussion is going, and am slightly uncomfortable with it. SC, do you have a point here which is relevant to our decisions today?
That's the wake-up call I needed. Thanks.Seol wrote:
If you're assessing how plausible a claim is on day 1, then you have two points of reference: the claim, and the roles you know (for Mafia, that's all the Mafia roles, most likely). The only way you can justify whether or not that claim is plausible is by comparing it to your own, so therefore the arguments any player gives about that player's claim contain information about their own role. Information which may make it easier for scum to effectively fake-claim.StrangerCoug wrote:I'm sorry, whose role other than Net's was being discussed between his claim and his lynch? If nobody's, what can scum deduce from a vanilla PM other than that person isn't a power role? I'm STILL not making heads or tails out of this.
That's particularly true when the role has a specific role-related aspect, as in Neto's claim. If someone, for example, had reason to think that function and flavour were or were not linked and said so, then making that argument makes it easier for scum to fake-claim plausible (and durable) power-roles.
I fail to see how the role can be discussed without some other point of reference coming into it.
I need a clearer mind to think with in this game, sounvote elvis_knitsfor the time being.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I use different FoS levels regardless of what alignment I am. "Major HoS" generally means that I'm either about to vote that person or would vote that person if I'm a double voter. Do you have a problem with people stating how suspicious other people are?elvis_knits wrote:So first we have the part where he unvotes scum and votes town, followed by the part ML doesn't like, where he gives a "major" HoS to Boxman. MAJOR! I find Foses basically useless and I don't bother to use them like 99% of the time. Maybe SC likes them. Some people do. But drawing a distinction between FoS, HoS and Major Hos... that seems forced, like he's trying to prove he REALLY is suspicious of Boxman while he votes someone else. I see it as weaselly garbage.
Already denied as scummy and explained.elvis_knits wrote:Then the part which I consider the scummiest reason in the universe to vote someone, "trying too hard to look townie."
What else is there to say? He chose not to participate, and his dropping out is opportunistic. If that's not a case to you, I'm sorry.MacavityLock wrote:I see that SC has still failed to address my concerns about him.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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It had been brought up that Boxman was posting elsewhere at the time. It's going to be hard to convince me that Boxman was lazy, and that wouldn't be something I'd like him for either.MacavityLock wrote:SC, how did/do you know that Box was being opportunistic and not lazy? Why is scum more likely than town to drop out in his situation? A town player has just about as much work to do as a scum player in his situation.
I was wondering for a bit if elvis_knits was trying to stretch for a case on me. I don't like Iecerint's misrepresenting me either, and his defending against Percy doesn't work well. Those are my top two scum picks for now. (Mind you, something about Percy is still nagging me, but I can't figure out what anymore.)Seol wrote:For the record, my position on elvis at the moment is:
I don't like how aggressive she's playing, I feel she's tunnelling badly and her reasoning isn't as strong as it could be. I feel she's overplaying the importance of people's positions on the Box wagon, am concerned that there's a possibility she's trying to establish that as a primary metric on the basis that it puts her in the clear, and thinking back to yesterday she seems almosttoostrongly on Box, moreso than I would expect an uninformed player to be.
I'llvote elvis_knitsagain. Iecerint,IGMEOY.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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EBWOP: I adressed Mac's first question, but not his second
Lazy town and lazy scum are about as equally likely to drop out in my opinion. Scum who are put under a lot of pressure are more prone to dropping out than town put under a lot of pressure. Netopalis fought to the death and flipped town, Boxman just sat there until he got replaced and turned out to be scum. (Scum will fight to the death, too, but I'm unaware of a game where town dropped out in a similar scenario and got lynched for it.)STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Basically Seol's case with my input that you're stretching a lot to find a case on me. Different levels of FoS's are not scummy, and voting someone for trying too hard to look town is voting someone for being unnatural; therefore, that is not scummy either.elvis_knits wrote:
So, what is your reason for voting me? I don't see one here.StrangerCoug wrote:
I was wondering for a bit if elvis_knits was trying to stretch for a case on me. I don't like Iecerint's misrepresenting me either, and his defending against Percy doesn't work well. Those are my top two scum picks for now. (Mind you, something about Percy is still nagging me, but I can't figure out what anymore.)Seol wrote:For the record, my position on elvis at the moment is:
I don't like how aggressive she's playing, I feel she's tunnelling badly and her reasoning isn't as strong as it could be. I feel she's overplaying the importance of people's positions on the Box wagon, am concerned that there's a possibility she's trying to establish that as a primary metric on the basis that it puts her in the clear, and thinking back to yesterday she seems almosttoostrongly on Box, moreso than I would expect an uninformed player to be.
I'llvote elvis_knitsagain. Iecerint,IGMEOY.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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You like to cast pretty much everything I say and do at this point in a negative light. My FoS system, my Net vote reasoning, my pretty much joining in with Seol to cast suspicion of you (even though I'm aware Seol isn't quite sure about me one way or the other)... I can't help but compare myself to Netopalis right now. You severing your ties with Iecerint and going back to bussing him is the only thing that will make me happy in the foreseeable future.elvis_knits wrote:
@SC... Piggybacking onto Seol's case was lazy BS. As you can see, Seol himself doesn't even consider it a case. So please explain to me why you are voting me.Seol wrote:SC: It's not a case on elvis, it's an unresearched compilation of gut feelings. I'd put it not much higher than "healthy suspicion".
What makes you think I have nothing to lose if I am scum? Somebody mentioned that, if the Mafia redirector got bombed, then there's a strong Mafiate out there. Do you think it's somebody other than me?elvis_knits wrote:I was just concerned with a kamikazee scum move hammer by SC since he's prob going to get lynched today. Normally I wouldn't expect that to happen, but if we're right about SC, then he has nothing to lose.
I'm not confessing to anything; I just want to know your train of thought.
This is saying it before we go there, not accusing you of anything along these lines: If it becomes clear that you think I'm scum just because we disagree about everything, I will hurt you.elvis_knits wrote:I will say this: SC hinted that he didn't like the claim either, but NOT for the reason I didn't like it!
If it's the game I'm thinking of, I thought I got lynched before you replaced in. I've gotten much better since then, but still don't consider myself a good player. (And yes, I know that not being a good player is not a defense to anything.)elvis_knits wrote:Do you have an SC meta? I only remember playing with him when he was like total newb.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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If you cannot see my reason for voting you, then you are blind.elvis_knits wrote:And nowhere in here do I see your reasoning for voting me.
There is no way for me to stop thinking you are scum if you can't even tell me why you are voting me.
I did not play Family Guy Mafia.elvis_knits wrote:SC wrote:
Metaphorically. I don't know your real-life address, and I don't want to know your real-life address.elvis_knits wrote:
You will hurt me? WTF?SC wrote:
This is saying it before we go there, not accusing you of anything along these lines: If it becomes clear that you think I'm scum just because we disagree about everything, I will hurt you.elvis_knits wrote:I will say this: SC hinted that he didn't like the claim either, but NOT for the reason I didn't like it!
Then come to your senses and accuse me of stuff that actually makes sense, not null trash.elvis_knits wrote:I'm not voting you because I disagree with you. You and Seol are currently painting me as some unreasonable person that goes "neenerneenerneener" every time someone disagrees with me or doesn't play the game like I do. That is not true.
elvis_knits wrote:
I think it was family guy mini and I think yeah you might have been lynched D1.SC wrote:
If it's the game I'm thinking of, I thought I got lynched before you replaced in. I've gotten much better since then, but still don't consider myself a good player. (And yes, I know that not being a good player is not a defense to anything.)elvis_knits wrote:Do you have an SC meta? I only remember playing with him when he was like total newb.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I personally don't know why the other way around is also true for the same reason.Iecerint wrote:I don't know why you're voting EK either, SC. It hasn't made sense all day. Literally, none at all.
Ah, don't worry. You're scum too, so your time will come. So will Percy's, once I find out what's up with him (I'm tearing myself up on the inside right now because IIecerint wrote:If she's just scummy for not wanting to lynch me, then you should be voting me. (That rhetoric sounds familiar.) Granted, if you're really only voting her for that reason....STILLhaven't figured it out).
She is not merely scummy for not wanting to lynch you. For the ten millionth time, her case on me makes no sense whatsoever. I was more confident of Boxman being scum than Netopalis even though I wold have been OK with either's lynch, Netopalis acted unnaturally, I draw distinctions between by FoS levels regardless of my alignment, and I am not OMGUS'ing her.
What do you mean "in a bit more detail"? I haven't said anything about it yet, have I?Iecerint wrote:Also, please comment in a bit more detail on Seol v. SX.
I think Seol vs. SpyreX is town versus town right now. My opinion may change on closer investigation.
I beg your pardon. I haven't scumhunted? I'm supposed to let elvis_knits's crap case on me sit there? Iecerint's conflating "trying too hard to be town" and "too townie" should be ignored? What are you smoking?Percy wrote:StrangerCoug: My read is that he's playing very, very defensively. I know he doesn't like elvis or Iecerint, but I don't really know why. I don't think it's unfair to say that he hasn't scumhunted at all today - just casted aspersions.
Briefly:Percy wrote:@StrangerCoug: Who is scum? Why?
elvis_knits: Her case on me makes absolutely no sense from a scumhunting point of view.
Iecerint: Misrepresenting me.
You: Gut.
What would you like for me to say about MacavityLock's #431?Seol wrote:
No. I had suspicions earlier: his reaction to SC's Major HOS felt bizarre, but his 431 does make sense as a basis for suspicion, so I'm more comfortable about him now. I was hoping SC would address that point, but he ignored it, which leaves me less comfortable with SC.Percy wrote:so@Seol: Do you still think MacavityLock is the most likely scum?
Since when? Your case on me is crap and you know it. Nobody is going to lynch me over my FoS system and my interactions with Netopalis are easy to explain. And apparently, neither of us are going to acknowledge that the other's case exists.elvis_knits wrote:
I obviously don't get it, SC. Why are you being difficult? Point me to the correct post or just summarize for me. That shouldn't take you more than a minute.StrangerCoug wrote:
If you cannot see my reason for voting you, then you are blind.elvis_knits wrote:And nowhere in here do I see your reasoning for voting me.
There is no way for me to stop thinking you are scum if you can't even tell me why you are voting me.
The only thing I can find is when you piggybacked on Seol:
If this all you got, that means you are voting me because you don't like me voting you, think I'm stretching the case on you.SC wrote:Basically Seol's case with my input that you're stretching a lot to find a case on me. Different levels of FoS's are not scummy, and voting someone for trying too hard to look town is voting someone for being unnatural; therefore, that is not scummy either.
Which is OMGUS.
Perhaps I should have used the wording "If it becomes clear that youelvis_knits wrote:I don't think you actually think I am scum.
Like this sentence for example:
It shows that you're frustrated with me, but it also shows that you accept that I "think you're scum." If I were scum, I wouldn't think you're scum. I would know who is scum and be trying to make townies look like scum but not actually think they are scum. Only a townie, who is actually scum hunting, would think people are scum.SC wrote:If it becomes clear that you think I'm scum just because we disagree about everything, I will hurt you.
So I think you are either frustrated town or frustrated scum, who is voting me because you want me to unvote you. It is a defensive maneuver.
If you are frustrated town, you need to start looking for scum.want us tothink I'm scum", but I think it still goes without saying that you are frustrated with me too.
And if I asked you to accuse me of stuff that actually makes sense, then I am not merely trying to get you to unvote me. I'm all ears and will continue to be until my death or win, but if it's going in one ear and out the other, somebody's doing something wrong.
My sister's computer is acting up, so I'll respond to everything else when I get home.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Konowa knows what kind of cases I'm talking about.
You have to keep in mind that my scum read on Netopalis had weakened. If you have a great case on somebody, then a third party you have a little bit of reason to believe is scum is driven to claim cop, and a cop doesn't fit well with the flavor and/or the setup, would you be more willing to go through with your case or lynch the claimed cop? Why?Konowa wrote:I have already given my feelings on SC's 325. The fact that he is happy with both lynches but fails to hammer really looks like an attempt to stay off townNet wagon. Now, let's take the quote below into consideration given his claim of happines with both lynches:
Say what?SC, post 368 wrote:Stethoscope didn't and still doesn't seem to me like a name claim for a vanilla, so if I'm reading your question right, not really. Given two lynch options, I will favor the one I'm more confident with my case in.I'll note a bad claim, but if that's their worst crime I'd rather bet money on someone else being scum.
Wouldn't a bad claim make you [SC]wantto lynch someone who you already consider scummy? Also, by stating it as his [Net's] worse crime seems disingenuous.
Yes, I thought one thing about Netopalis, then another. That's what happens when you reread. I initially read #245 as Net saying as he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, then on subsequent reads it came off more like he was trying to find a middle ground.Konowa wrote:
Really? I find this very hypocritical given your position D1. To me, this looks like revisionist justification as to why you switched your vote off of Net.SC, post 366 wrote:Which is why I said it took me awhile to read #245 as not being panicky. That can also be added to my explanation as to why I favored lynching Boxman over Net.
Which is why I hate myself for having nothing but that gut to back up Percy's suspicions.Konowa wrote:
The whole "I think you are scum, but you haven't done anything yet for me to call scummy, so I'll leave myself an out " implied business leaves way too much wiggle room. Scum leaving a back door open just in case? I think so.SC, post 387 wrote:Other than what you've [Percy] defended below, it's mostly gut. I may find something, I may not.
Her case on me is nonsense. She is accusing me of stuff that is not scummy.Konowa wrote:The re-vote of elvis in 434 leaves me scratching my head, especially after Seol himself says that it is not a case. SC, why is elvis scum?
I did already. What you had accused me of previously made no sense, and I am not a broken record. This iselvis_knits wrote:IF I MAKE YOU ANOTHER CASE, WILL YOU FINALLY TELL ME WHY YOU ARE VOTING ME, SC????SOMEWHATbetter.
You are reading aelvis_knits wrote:1) Hypocrite; not starting the ball rolling
StrangerCoug ISO2 wrote:elvis_knits wrote:scumteam = sensfan, boxman, macavitylock
confirm or deny?
Sounds as good as anything else right now
Joking post. (Read, anti-informational).
StrangerCoug ISO3 wrote:Boxman wrote:Wee. Not much going on is there?
Unvote: MacavityLock
Vote: Boxman for stating the obvious. Why sit on the sidelines when there's lot of opportunity to start the ball rolling?
First vote on Boxman. If there's any safe time to vote your buddy it's when nobody else is doing it. And if others are going to vote your buddy, might as well do it first.
Encourages bxoman to start the ball rolling when SC himself was not "starting the ball rolling himself." See last post where he joked instead of started the ball rolling.
Follows up with a fluff post:
SC ISO4 wrote:Why does your avatar look familiar, Seol?
Net makes some joke about Seol being old fogey. Followed by SC conversational:
SC ISO5 wrote:That's a possibility.
So these posts are in direct conflict with SC's expressed opinion that we should be getting the ball rolling and not farting around.LITTLEtoo much into random voting stage activity. First off, you quote me quoting you (!) making a scumteam with essentially three names out of a hat. I said it sounded as good as anything else because there was very little to go on. I may have agreed with a different combination of three names, but it doesn't look good on you if I agree with something you said and you call my agreement anti-information. It's called trapping.
Secondly, it was a conscious choice of Boxman not to participate. The jests that I made may have gotten us nowhere in the long run, but it's better than if I had publicly declared that I would absent myself.
The comment about Seol's avatar is conceded, but I say if you keep the fluff to a bare minimum, it's OK.
My reasoning was still strong in and of itself. I am not psychic; I honestly expected for more to come out of him. If he's going to live to his word, oh well.elvis_knits wrote:2) Boxman vote wasn't serious; didn't think boxman would be lynched
SC ISO6 (snipped) wrote:It's kind of hard to call my vote on Boxman a second random vote, though I was aware of the unlikelihood that he'd be lynched on that alone.
Shows that he did not consider his vote on bxoman very serious, and that he did not think boxman was in danger of being lynched for it (increases the liklihood that a scum would vote their buddy if they thought they weren't going to have to lynch said buddy).
Defended in your defense of your first point against me.elvis_knits wrote:3)Hypocrisy re: anti-informational
SC ISO8 (snipped) wrote:I actually think refusing to partake in discussion is pretty strong as it's anti-information.
In direct conflict with his early behavior where he was anti-informational.
4)Again, didn't think/want boxman lynched
Again, I expected more from Boxman and I didn't get it.elvis_knits wrote:SC ISO10 (snipped) wrote:I thought it had been established that Boxman's not very likely to be lynched on just opting to sit out, as much as I like the tell.
Again, showing he did not think his vote on boxman would lead to boxman's lynch. And also suggesting that maybe boxman should not be lycnhed just for opting to sit out.
As dangerous a question it is of me to ask, is acting on gut scummy per se?elvis_knits wrote:5)Vague accusations
SC ISO11 wrote:Something rings false with Netopalis's case on SensFan, but I can't pinpoint it exactly.
This is a scummy way to suspect someone, since there is no attached reason. "This person seems scummy for some reason that I just can't think of at the moment."
It is a way of injecting doubt into the discussion, testing the waters to see if there is support for lynching the guy, and also to slowly move yourself over there, so when you vote people aren't surprised.
When did I make such a clarification?elvis_knits wrote:6)THE AWFULNESS
StrangerCoug ISO15 wrote:Unvote: Boxman and demote him to a Major HoS
Vote: Netopalis
The end of page 10 looks a lot like he's trying too hard to look town. #247 is awful.
This jump off boxman is very suspicious to me. SC has clarified that he was not saying he can tell the difference between someone who is town and someone trying to look town (as I originally thought).
Netopalis was more concerned about his image than scumhunting. That's the unnaturalness I keep speaking of.elvis_knits wrote:He has since said that Neto was trying to look town and failing.
I still to not see how Neto was "trying to look town and failing," or how any person could know such a thing.
I think this move off known scum is HIGHLY suspect.
At least Percy has shown he doesn't give a damn about his image.elvis_knits wrote:7)More vague accusations
Today opens with SC making vague accusations against me, and also "something doesn't seem right about Percy." Which is the same bullshit he tried to sell us yesterday about Netopalis!
I read that, and I believe I already discussed the caveat when you mentioned it. "Trying too hard to be town" is acting unnatural. "Too townie" is calling somebody out for blending in with the town. Do your definitions of the terms differ?Iecerint wrote:There was no conflation of "too townie" and "trying too hard to be townie." First, these are both crap "scumtells" as written, anyway, for reasons everyone has listed. Second, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and interpreted the latter into "miscalculated how a townie would behave" for your benefit. In other words, I was deliberately allowing that you may have made an argument that by all accounts was more sophisticated than what you actually said. Percy missed this when he read me for the first time, I corrected him, and he said sorry. Maybe you missed this?
Was it between the source of the last quote in my last post and that last post itself? My sister's computer didn't really like me, and I'm back home on a computer I can (mostly) trust now. I would have gotten to it if you had given me time.elvis_knits wrote:I also want to know why SC didn't comment on my discussion of Net's claim and why I didn't like it.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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You know what, I'm going to tell my gut to stop yelling at me about Percy if I have nothing on him. That's one of my biggest hindrances to thinking straight right now.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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OK, SpyreX, I present you elvis_knits (who needs a new avatar, though that doesn't make her scummy at all):
EXHIBIT A: THE SILLINESS
In ISO 4, elvis_knits said the Boxman wagon is based on a weak scumtell, which she proceeds to make two points in support thereof. I call her out on this, and I eventually buy her explanation in ISO 10's and 13 that weak ≠ bad. But how did Netopalis make elvis_knits's SensFan wagon silly?
EXHIBIT B: I DIDN'T HAMMER NETOPALIS, SO WHAT?
In ISO 48, elvis_knits said she's disappointed that I don't hammer Netopalis. She reminds me of this in ISO 50 and proceeds to imply I'm scummy for extending the day by waiting for Boxman or a replacement. I counter by saying that she's the one scummy for buddying to Boxman by trying to get me to switch my vote and for cutting discussion off. Harmful leaking of role information aside, ISTILLcan't figure out how my not hammering matters.
EXHIBIT C: "TRYING TOO HARD" IS A SCUMTELL... NOT
In ISO 52, elvis_knits says I'm fine until I switch from Boxman to Netopalis for "trying too hard to be town", which she says is the worst tell in the universe. She reasserts her position in ISO 60. I say Netopalis was unnatural, and end up piquing her interest, as shown in her ISO 62. I explain, and she counters in 63 by saying Netopalis was calm throughout. Then ISO 90 rolls in, with elvis apparently having forgotten what I had meant. If she didn't, then I'd like to know why she reverted to saying that the reasoning for the vote itself is shaky rather than the reasoning I think Netopalis was unnatural is shaky.
EXHIBIT D: MAJOR WASTE OF TIME DISCUSSING MY FOS SYSTEM
In ISO 78, elvis_knits calls out my giving a major HoS on Boxman right after unvoting him, calling it forced. I immediately defend it as playstyle, which is supported by MacavityLock's meta of me. (He does make a statement that I can be trigger-happy with these as scum, but that's not part of my case.) Arguing over playstyle is a waste of time.
EXHIBIT E: ELVIS_KNITS IS A HYPOCRITE TOO
When she does my case on me in ISO 118, the very first thing she does is call me out for being hypocritical about getting the ball rolling. OK, this makes some sense. Why, then, does she quote me agreeing with her wild scumteam theory, and why isn't she yelling at me about this until now, not to mention that the first post of hers that's really along the lines of anything serious is ISO 4?
Fixed tag.
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In this thread, elvis_knits runs out of energy to use on me. I'm not going to sit there and ignore what I've been accused of, and I still deny the OMGUS, but she and I are in an impasse and us continuing to engage in mudslinging each other will not help anybody right now.
While I'm talking along these lines, SpyreX making an attempt to break up our fight is contrary to the way I've seen him play as scum. I only have one completed game that I remember to go on, unfortunately.
I connected "stethoscope" with "doctor", not "vanilla townie". I also had yet to pay any attention to the mod saying that names might not make sense given roles.MacavityLock wrote:SC, can you discuss why you weren't comfortable with Neto's claim?
Hey, Percy, reread the last sentence of Exhibit A in #561. I had stopped attacking her for the weak tell business, but it still has a question I want answered, and it has nothing to do with me.Percy wrote:I read over the SC/EK interchange, and I think StrangerCoug is the worse for it. Looking over post 561, it reads likemore defencethan any sort of case against elvis. SpyreX claimed that both of them were simply products of interaction between the players, but look at post 554 of elvis'. Only the last point is as Spyrex characterised.
In addition, the first point of #554 is also interaction between us as she quotes me quoting her. She trapped me with that statement. You cannot, within reason, call somebody out for agreeing with you, regardless of the seriousness of things going on. You also cannot, within reason, call somebody out for things you did too either.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Seol is still town right now. His attack on you is sensible, and I think he's dealing with my argument with elvis_knits quite well. Iecerint has improved to a neutral as he's explained away my biggest concern about him to my satisfaction, and MacavityLock is town.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Clarify (b) a bit please. It reads to me that failing to make your fakeclaim look enough like a vanilla is a smart thing to do, and it isn't.MacavityLock wrote:
That's it? Very simply, there were two possibilities:StrangerCoug wrote:
I connected "stethoscope" with "doctor", not "vanilla townie". I also had yet to pay any attention to the mod saying that names might not make sense given roles.MacavityLock wrote:SC, can you discuss why you weren't comfortable with Neto's claim?
a) Neto was "stethescope" VT
b) Neto was scum who was too stupid to come up with a fake-claim that looked more vanilla than town PR
As far as I can tell, you're saying that theonlyproblem you had with his claim was that (b) was a possibility. I'm loving my vote.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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The average person doesn't have a stethoscope laying around—that's something people in the medical profession are more likely to have on them. I think it's reasonable to think the way I did given I failed to read the mod note about claims.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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None of your three posts were there when I started making my post—I was responding to MacavityLock. Yes, I believed that Netopalis could have been a Mafia doctor.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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SpyreX, way to kill my town read on you with your sudden Percy vote.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Oh, andMod: I anticipate a very hectic next couple of days with Thanksgiving business.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I have to agree with Percy's counter to MacavityLock here. "The case on Netopalis is pretty dead unless Boxman is scum", according to the way I interpreted it, is "If Boxman is town, then the case against Netopalis is void." The case on somebody being void does not necessarily mean that that person is town. It means only that the person isn't scummy for that.
Unvote: elvis_knitssince she deserves breathing room too
Vote: MacavityLockSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Elaborate on "criminally defective" please.Iecerint wrote:At best, he has a criminally defective scumdarSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I obviously beg to differ, so what does this tell me?Iecerint wrote:Your implicit scumteam is EK, ML, and me (I guess one of us is SK?), whereas we are literally the least scummy players in this game.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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He misrepresented you by saying you said that if Boxman were town, it follows that Netopalis would be scum. It didn't necessarily, and I didn't interpret anything you said as such. I'm not going to repeat what you said ten million times.Percy wrote:@StrangerCoug: Elaborate on your reasons for voting ML.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I'm having a decreased tendency to post in twilight and I was only answering what was asked of me. Regardless, I don't know what to make of Seol right now. It would have been OK by me for him to be lynched, but not the best lynch in my opinion.elvis_knits wrote:WHY did SC not comment on this supposed hammer on Seol??
He just posted, after Spyrex supposedly hammered and Percy seems to have believed it, and SC makes no mention of it.
SpyreX needs to be kept under very close watch for that fake hammer, though. Iecerint also misled us as to the vote count and needs to be shaken by his neck too.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I missed where he said that it wasn't a secret hammer because he accounted for an unvote. Apologies, but that we should keep an eye on SpyreX still stands.Iecerint wrote:SC, I had thought SX was still voting Seol when I voted Seol, but it looks like he'd switched to Percy. That's my mistake, but why do you think it's scummy? It made a quicklynch on Seol less likely rather than more, if anything.
Help my poor brain make sense of this please. You are not a doublevoter, but you believe the second vote is a function of your role. How so?SpyreX wrote:Being "A doublevoter" is not my role.
However, I think the second vote is a function of my role.
----
And the doublevoter is a function of alignment-related roles. I don't see a lot of mini's with town rolecops, nor do I think I've (ever?) seen a mini with a scum doublevoter). I clearly say this doesn't absolve me from being the mystical SK, but.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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That is one weird role. Hmm...STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Why would I push your wagon by siding with you in an argument, assuming I interpreted your post correctly? This makes no sense whatsoever.Percy wrote:SC didn't comment on the whole debacle. Healsodidn't give his scumlist. What he said was this:
This was in answer to my question about his vote on ML. Now out of the entire game so far, SC is voting because of one attack on me - and I'm not even sold that it was scummy. It might be opportunistic scum trying to push my wagon, but I don't think introducingStrangerCoug 648 wrote:He misrepresented you by saying you said that if Boxman were town, it follows that Netopalis would be scum. It didn't necessarily, and I didn't interpret anything you said as such. I'm not going to repeat what you said ten million times.decidablequestions (i.e. direct reference to propositional logic) would be the way to do it. I think at this point in the game it's a pretty minor excuse to vote anyone.
Right now I believe SpyreX, MacavityLock, and Iecerint to be scum. elvis_knits is off my top three for now.
I personally would expect scum to act unpredictably. You cannot assume that I am going to say "I don't care about logic or what you said, it's scummy, la la la, the end," if you don't mind me using your exact quote, regardless of my alignment.Percy wrote:I would expect scum to react more like SpyreX, in the "I don't care about logic or what you said, it's scummy, la la la, the end".
The way you word this also refutes your thinking that I am scummy.
Granted, SpyreX and I have been relatively quiet about each other. SpyreX does read as if he's buddying up to me, and I've only given a lot of focus on SpyreX just a little while ago.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Why do you have a death wish, SpyreX?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Way to backtrack. You said that I have an itchy trigger finger when it comes to throwing FoS's and the like as scum, and while the example deserves notice, I threw a major HoS on Boxman in the same sentence I unvoted him. It would make more sense for you to attack my vote on Boxman directly if you think my case on him is weak.MacavityLock wrote:My case on SC is as follows:
The Major HoS on Box. I have shown an instance where SC put a Major HoS on a scumbuddy for what amounts to little reason, for what I assume to be distancing purposes. I think he did the same thing here, due to the fact that I can't read anything in Box's play or SC's Day 1 "case" on Box that deserves such a major signal from SC. (Note that FoS's, HoS's, etc exist for signaling only, which is different from the variety of ways [pressure, signaling, actually lynching] votes can be used.)
MacavityLock wrote:SC's vote on me doesn't make a ton of sense, as I don't think my interpretation of Percy's linking thing was much of a stretch. I also think it's rather interesting that his vote came just 2 days after the following: