Mini 183: Quick and the Dead - Town Wins!

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First post!

Random vote:mathcam

, because he is an institution here, and I wanted to do this since I registered 8) .

Ok, now getting a bit more serious: Do anyone have any information worth sharing at this point? (I know it is not likely, but still...)

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Puzzle´s idea of a mass name-claim seems better to me in this specific game than in others, since if we have a counterclaim, having both players to duel would be the perfect solution.
However, the main problem with this kind of claim (making it easier for the mafia to find power roles) still applies, so, what do you guys think?

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Mod, perhaps a mass-prod is necessary??

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Because there are 11 players, and there has not been a post for like 36 hours. I just meant I would like everybody to post, because otherwise we just can not play.

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I also like The Shadow´s idea, this way we will never lynch an innocent (assuming duels are decided in a RPS game, which I think is probably not that simple).

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The townie dead was Cort, the Preacher (if I recall the movie correctly, he was in the semifinals against the girl, and they faked the duel), and in his death description it says he was very talented at dueling. This means there are some townies who are good at dueling.

At this point, I think some characters (both in mafia and town) have some advantages at dueling. Perhaps that means that, in case of a tie in the first RPS choice they win; or something like that.

But I believe the duels are not too one-sided in favor of the mafia, because that would make the game very hard for the town.

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I have a character from the movie, who I am like 95% sure is not a villain (I watched the film a long time ago)

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I already stated this earlier: my role is a named character from the film.

I agree it is a good idea to have everybody do this.

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Well, I know the generic name is for townies, logically it must follow power roles are named movie roles. It wouldn't make sense to only name the scum.

Peace Bringer had an important character (Cort) was pro-tow, and I do not consider his role to be a specially powerful one (Although it is true that I have no idea what this "good at dueling" implied). So, I believe it is positive to force people into claiming generic or movie characters. With a setup of this size, I find it unlikely there are too many generic ones.

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Coron, what we are trying to state now is whether our roles are generic (ie. "gunman", or "barman") or named after characters in the movie(ie. "Cort the Preacher").

It would help if everybody answers this question, because I think it would make more clear the strategy to follow.
Tomorrow I will do a summary of the game, including what people has claimed to this point, but now I am going to bed.

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The summary I promised:
People who have claimed to have a role who is not a villain in the movie:
Axelrod
Puzzle
MGM
Zippy
_Obelix_ (95% sure)

People with "generic roles"
MGM (suspects there are more players with his same role)
SquareKnight (believes his role is unique)

People with "named roles"
_Obelix_
Myopia
Puzzle
Mathcam (suggests having a secondary character from the movie)
The Shadow

People who have not claimed generic or named yet
Coron
Zippy
MoS
Axelrod (suggested the idea but did not claim)

All this is, obviously, subject to mistakes and thus should not be taken as completely accurate. Feel free to correct any mistakes and, if you have not claimed in the Named/Generic debate, please do so.

Well, I hope this helps. To finish I will say that MGM appears the most suspicious to me at the moment, given how the claims are going, but I think it is better to wait until everybody has claimed.
Until then, I will

Unvote:mathcam

, since the game is already advanced enough that a random vote has absolutely no sense.

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So, both Zippy and MGM have named roles. It seems the only generic one so far is then SquareKnight´s.
Big, obligatory,

FOS:MGM

. You should not play that many games at a time if you get the roles mixed.
At this point, I believe your behaviour is scummy enough that it deserves a claim, but I am only proposing the idea to be debated, not asking for it inmediately.

On an unrelated note, I will most likely not have access until Monday.

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Have we had Coron claim? I can not find it, and I think he should claim before the duel, which at this point I agree is a good idea (and it may also help us understand better how those duels work).

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Puzzle, what you propose is not doable, since each player can only take part in a duel each day. At this point, I would really like a full claim from both MGM and Coron. I believe they should duel each other, but said claim could perhaps change that opinion. In other words, I agree with Axelrod´s idea of first claim, then duel.

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MGM, does your role PM say anything about your dueling ability? If so, just say yes, do not tell us what it says.

Coron, just to make it clear: I would like YOU specifically to claim, since I find your attitude really scummy. To reinforce my petition,

Vote: Coron

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Shadow, I fear your assumption is wrong. The Kid is indeed Herod´s son, but I would definitely not consider him to be on his side (in fact, Herod kills him). Also, SquareKnight has claimed a generic character, so assuming there are none is a bit off.
I would in principle consider the Kid to be pro-town, and with him being one of the major characters in the film, very likely to be in the game. All this leads me to believe he actually is what he says he is, at least until there is a counterclaim. In my eyes, MGM is more cleared than some other players at this point, such as Coron and Puzzle (that would be my #1 choice for a duel right now).
To finish,

FOS:The Shadow

, for not doing his homework (or attempting to make us believe he has not done so).

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Puzzle, that could be from your role PM, but also directly from the movie. It was the most obvious choice to be scum by a long margin. In any case, I am for your claim but I would prefer you not to do it unless three or four more people agree on asking you to claim. Otherwise, I would prefer you to stay quiet.

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Unless there is a counterclaim, I believe Puzzle is cleared (Note how Cort was also a simple townie, even though he was a good fighter too). I would nonetheless like you to answer this:

And The Shadow's analysis is coherent with what I have. That makes him highly unlikely to be scum in my eyes, as he was the first to come up with it.

What analysis are you referring to? The bit about the only winner is the last standing man? Or the one about the Kid being mafia?

I will have to reiterate my vote on Coron. His contribution to this point is null, and he refuses to increase it (because we have not started to play mafia yet). Anyways, I think it would be interesting to have a duel involving him. What I am not so sure about is who should be his opponent. Axelrod and Puzzle seem to be pushing too agressively towards MoS. I find that a bit strange, but with Puzzle virtually cleared at this point I don´t know what to think.

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Unless there is a counterclaim, I believe Puzzle is cleared (Note how Cort was also a simple townie, even though he was a good fighter too). I would nonetheless like you to answer this:

And The Shadow's analysis is coherent with what I have. That makes him highly unlikely to be scum in my eyes, as he was the first to come up with it.

What analysis are you referring to? The bit about the only winner is the last standing man? Or the one about the Kid being mafia?

I will have to reiterate my vote on Coron. His contribution to this point is null, and he refuses to increase it (because we have not started to play mafia yet). Anyways, I think it would be interesting to have a duel involving him. What I am not so sure about is who should be his opponent. Axelrod and Puzzle seem to be pushing too agressively towards MoS. I find that a bit strange, but with Puzzle virtually cleared at this point I don´t know what to think.

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I think the best option is to revert this, and go directly into night. It is not a good solution, but it is not the worst either. I think that would be the most balanced way of continuing with the game. The harm has already been done, and the only way to fix it would be to restart the game fully, which I think is not a good idea at this point.

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I guess there's no point in thinking about content until this is resolved. I think the simplest solution is simply to kill off Puzzle and continue the game...I think this is the only way to preseve game integrity, and only Puzzle is screwed by the deal (sorry Puzzle).

Vote: Puzzle

Cam

Agreed. Sorry, man.

Unvote, Vote:Puzzle

. I am still very suspicious of Coron, but this issue needs to be solved before we can go on with the game.

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I could see the Kid becoming a SK, seeing how the Lady became one. This is just speculation, but perhaps this is the way the "last man standing wins" works?

Vote:MGM

. We need to test whether this is true or not. Perhaps we could solve it having you duel.

Also, I am suspicious of SquareKnight, if only because he is the only one to have claimed a generic role. Any other gerneric roleclaims, and I will remove my suspicion, but right now I think it is most likely he is one of Herod´s thugs. I consider him the best candidate to duel MGM right now.

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I can tell you know that claiming your name doesn't turn you into a serial killer, cause I'm still the townie I was before I claimed. Think about it! Claiming is an integral part of mafia and taking it away would hurt the game unneccesarily.

My guess right now is that this engine allows the game to transform itself from a regular mafia game to the tournament that was hinted before (Remember the discussion we had about the "last man standing" issue?).

Also, I am suspicious of SquareKnight, if only because he is the only one to have claimed a generic role.

That was true yesterday.

How is it different today?

Agreed. Sorry, man. Unvote, Vote:Puzzle. I am still very suspicious of Coron, but this issue needs to be solved before we can go on with the game.

What happened to change your mind? Are you now willing to give Coron a pass on not claiming at all?

That is true. Coron has done nothing to deserve losing the spotlight, I simply had forgotten about the issue.

FOS:Coron

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If no one claims a generic role, I want SquareKnight and Coron to duel.

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I think at this point it would be in the town´s best interest to have a "controlled" duel, choosing by majority both the duellers AND the winner. (if the one we choose to lose refuses to do that (say, send a fixed combination of RPS); we lynch him) My candidates for dueling right now are MGM and Coron. And I want MGM to die (We need to test this SK issue)

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MGM; the reason why I believe that is true is the "last man standing" wins part of the description. I believe it is a very real possibility, and thus worth testing. If I am wrong, we lose a townie. Otherwise, we get an SK and almost the certainty of roleclaim=SK.

I chose Coron as the dueller because I do not trust MGM, and I find it likely that MGM would not lose the duel, so we would lose his opponent and then lynch him. If I have to lose someone, Coron seems a good candidate. In any case, I would like everybody to say whether they agree with the controlled duel proposition, and what would be their choices.

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After the last posts by Nanook, I am less convinced of the claim=SK thing. So I will

Unvote:MGM

and abandon my crusade on that topic. (but I will keep an eye on it, just in case). Next in my list of suspicious people, I find Coron and SquareKnight. I will

Vote:SquaerKnight

to put a little bit of pressure on him.

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After the last posts by Nanook, I am less convinced of the claim=SK thing. So I will

Unvote:MGM

and abandon my crusade on that topic. (but I will keep an eye on it, just in case). Next in my list of suspicious people, I find Coron and SquareKnight. I will

Vote:SquaerKnight

to put a little bit of pressure on him.

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No, there probably is not. I would like this game to move a little faster; and I would also like to see a duel (I think it could help the town to learn a bit more about it). I want Coron and SquareKnight to duel, since they are both highly suspicious for me; and Coron apparently is willing to do so.

I have said all the above before, but I am repeating it in an attempt to get everyone involved, and having opinions on whether people want a duel or not; and who they want to duel.

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SquareKnight, can you duel? It does not make too much sense that the Bartender duels, so...

I think it is important in this moment to have everybody claim generic/named role, because if SquareKnight is the only generic (he is the only one with that claim so far) I would like him to duel.

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I push not because you refuse to claim, but because you dont even want to place yourself in either generic or named character. I dont want you to claim you role or anything, just answer that question as the rest of us have done.

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I guess that combo is going to get you killed.

Unvote, Vote:Coron

I do not think such a non-cooperative player is good for the town.

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Mathcam, I agree with you rpoint (I think I said something similar earlier), but who will duel Coron? That is the main problem. I find SquareKnight suspicious, perhaps he would be a good option. But what can we do if he refuses?

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SquareKnight looks suspicious by virtue of being the only one to have claimed a generic role. If there is another person with a generic role, it would be nice for them to speak up now.

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This is going too slow.... I want a duel soon!!!!

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Finally! Now, lets hope this goes well....
As an aside note, I think we should not lynch the loser (at least not inmediately) so please dont rush into said lynch.

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That was a big mistake apparently. I know this will sound rather odd, because I was basically in the same boat as mathcam, but what Myopia says makes some sense to me. It is likely that some of the people behind the lynch are scum, and since I am not scum that makes mathcam more likely to be in my eyes.

FOS:mathcam

Coron, we take you for someone who does not want to say who he is. How can we know who you are if you dont tell us?

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I dont think that was a too good idea, Myopia. Dueling without at least asking the rest of the town before is not an appropriate way of working things out. However, I will wait until the duel has finished to comment any more.

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So, what do we do next? Because we are digging a hole ourselves.

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My ideas:
I made a mistake. I was not the only one, but one of the more vocals towards the Coron-SquareKnight duel. Coron was acting really strangely, not wanting to claim and all, and SK was the only generic character, which was pretty suspicious IMO.

Also, I would like to know why "Mastermind of Sin is gone right now". He supported the duel between Coron and SK too.

Right now, I think we should reconsider a mass claim.

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Coron, I want you to roleclaim. Also, if there is any reason why you cant name claim please say so. In fact, I think we all should claim fully.

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Well, it is 6 of us left. There is only 1 mafia killed. That means there are most likely 2 more scum roles out there, possibly even 3. I would not call this 'mid-game'.

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I think Coron should claim first, then the rest of us in random order.

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So.... mathcam?

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I like having each player choosing who goes next.

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That sounds good. mathcam, we are still waiting.

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Im townie. Also, since we decided to name claim in reverse order, I will claim my name: Eugene Dred

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Hello. I find Coron´s refusal to name claim somewhat strange. If he were scum, why would he do that? But, why would he do that if he were protown? Perhaps he has a restriction regarding claiming? That would possibly make him town. I really dont know what to think right now.

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Sorry about this, but I have been skimming through the thread, and I can not remember what MGM claimed. I recall he was The Kid, but what is his role?

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My vote is already on Coron, so there is no need for me to add anything else now. Claim or die

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Yus! We won! I think mathcam survived because there was always someone better to kill :p. In any case, nice game; only shadowed by the mod mistake (could have happened to anyone, dont worry Nanook). I look forward to playing in more mini themed games.
*runs to the queue forum*