My scumlist is now: HackerHuck, DraketheFake, Bogre, in that order.
DragonsofSummer beats out Yosarian2 for fourth place since he is obviously acitvely lurking. See below for explanations and other general catch-up. I hope this isn't too little too late. Sorry I really haven't had the time to play as well as I'd like. Some of this probably won't get answered until day 2, but I wanted to get it in before the day ends in case I'm shot.
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HackerHuck 236 wrote:I’m not seeing the general scumvibe on DraketheSnake that everyone else is. It seems more to me that he doesn’t have a proper understanding of the mechanics. Are you all really arguing that he’s scum trying to convince townies that they should try to get the gun pointed on themselves? Yes, I understand that’s what the scum are thinking, but verbalising is a sign of scum who can’t maintain an inner dialogue.
Your final sentence here seems to
support
the case that he's scum trying to convince townies that they should try to get shot. What am I missing?
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ortolan 249 wrote:oh wait...I was confused...HackerHuck replaced rite?
Who did you think he'd replaced?
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HowardRoark 251 wrote:I was going with the just name names and see reactions process. Here's a quick reply . . .
Zakeri: Lurktastic.
Borge: Scummy.
Slicey/DraketheFake: Gut.
The reasons given for Bogre and Slicey and DraketheFake are not real reasons at all. And why group Slicey and Drake together both as your "third" option AND when giving reasons? Perhaps you just tacked them on as an afterthought and couldn't be bothered to make up a different reason for each of them.
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Slicey 269 wrote:Bogre thinks he knows the definition of anti-town. You forget that anti-town also means self preservation instead of trying to win. You're anti-town because you are too worried about staying alive instead of trying to help your team.
When was Bogre too worried about staying alive? He accused rite of doing this, he didn't do it himself.
Slicey 269 wrote:
And I don't really even see Drake's case against you, so the fact that you're worried about it is surprising, and even pretty scummy. Also worried about OMGUS, which town really shouldn't be.
Drake's case against me is in post 88 where he criticised something I had said or done no fewer than 4 times. This was all in the context of a full game analysis, so each criticism was independent and interspersed with other observations. And yet he never bothered to state plainly that he thought I might be scum, and didn't try to push a case against me. If it were me that found 4 independent things scummy about one player I would be pushing hard. That is why I find his case scummy - because he buried it, as if he's worried about pushing a case against a townie.
The reason I was worried about OMGUS is because it's hard to objectively assess an accusation of yourself. I wasn't sure I trusted my own judgement on this particular case, because his accusations seemed so obviously poor to me, and yet it was apparently not obvious to him.
His posts since then have been worse. His 166 where he says townies should try to get shot is terrible. He parrots Bogre's argument about townies not being afraid of the gun then says Bogre is scummy for saying Vala shouldn't shoot him because he's town. It makes no sense and it just looks like he's skimming.
I'm reading neutral on rewq - he's better than Drake, but nothing says town, so he stays on my scumlist.
Slicey 269 wrote:Sarag, why do you want to focus on other players when we have a very likely scum (and even you kinda think so) in Bogre. Trying to shift the focus on someone else?
That was quite early in the game. I pressured Bogre for acting anti-town, and we got a bunch of posts from him that told us a fair bit about his playstyle. Pressuring him further seemed likely to just yield more of the same. I didn't see it as a strong scum-tell then, since it could be interpreted as poor play as easily as scum. It can sometimes be more informative to see how people play once the pressure is off and I didn't think I was going to reach a decision by pressuring him further at that time. What's more, the whole Bogre discussion was all that was being talked about, pretty much. It ran the risk of being a big distraction and there was plenty of time for more scumhunting.
So how has Bogre been since the pressure was off? 185 is just more of his same stance about townies not being afraid of getting shot. Repeating himself and conjuring excuses to keep pushing Rite.
Then a few more weak accusations of people without much content. Then his best moment in 284 & 286 catching HackerHuck out for saying he's worried Bogre will shoot Xyl. And that's basically it. The only worthwhile thing out of Bogre was just because he was tunnelling hard on HackerHuck (rite) anyway.
Bogre stays on the scum list.
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Zakeri 275 wrote:tl;dr version: It's impossible to tell a person's meta from a single game because it's impossible to know what changes based on alignment.
This is true, but it IS possible to find a counterexample to a case using a single game, which is what ortolan was trying to do. So if someone says "Bogre is scummy because of behaviour x" and then ortolan says "but Bogre displayed behaviour x as town in the past" it is a legitimate comment.
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Yosarian2 283 wrote:That's..actually kind of a scummy reason, HH. "I don't want X to get shot today because he'll become gunbarer and then shoot me" is exactly what scum would likely be thinking in that situation.
You're calling him scummy for not wanting to get shot. Haven't we already established that no one wants to get shot?
Xylthixlm 285 wrote:You mentioned me at least once:
Bogre wrote:Possible scumteam of rite and Xyl?
I think yes
HackerHuck bringing it up is curious, though.
ortolan 287 wrote:because Hacker is trying to implicate a townie along with himself
Now this is a case I can get behind. I cannot think of a reason for town-Hacker to mention Xylthixlm in this context. He goes to the top of the scum list.
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Yosarian2 290 wrote:I've been very active, and quite agressivly scumhunting the entire game. I haven't been "reactive" at all, other people have been forced to react to my attacks. Including you.
So what the heck are you talking about?
You've been better lately. I was referring to your comments on Bogre early in the game. You came in with a weak stance on an ongoing discussion. I didn't see you generate much for quite some time after that.
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Slicey 299 wrote:
- Sarag, are you saying that you agree with both Zakeri and ort in their argument? I have no idea what you're trying to say about the two of them. Whose side are you on? Also, you really didn't make any firm opinions on anyway. You think rite is town and you think Drake is scum, but you don't sound very sure.
I said I'd be comfortable with shooting Drake, how much surer do I need to be?
I was saying I agreed with some parts of each of Zakeri and ort's arguments. I was commenting on the content, rather than the authors. I agreed with ortolan that the nature of his attacks (speculating about motivation) is not scummy, but I also agreed with Zakeri that the particular attacks were poor. So I didn't think ortolan had a case on DoS, and I didn't think Zakeri had a case on ortolan.
Basically the same thing applies to ortolan and rite. Eliminating cases is not exciting, nor does it give you an answer, but it gets you closer to one, and it isn't waffle.
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Slicey 301 wrote:- Ort: Okay. I agree he's town too, although he's more accurate than you are IMHO.
This is referring to page 11. Who are you talking about? Ortolan talked about both Bogre and Drake being town on page 11 but they're both on your scum list.
rewq455 wrote:Page 5
Sarag wrote:On the contrary, I'm a little concerned that there is too much focus on Bogre, despite my hand in it. I think it's a real risk that lurker scum could be kicking back, enjoying the show at this point. Bogre has had this much bad attention because he wasn't very good at defending himself. I'm clearly not reluctant to defend myself from attacks that have actual substance - see the majority of my last post.
But how do you tell the difference between a town player that can't defend, and a scum player that can't defend?
That's exactly the point I was making - you can't.
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Xylthixlm wrote:If I take those four's votes out of the count, not only does the top 4 stay the same but it also removes
almost every single vote on any player not in that group
.
I've also noticed we are an oddly cohesive group. I don't know what to make of it. Shooting the wrong person will no doubt shake things up a lot.