Mini 225 - Superhero Mafia! (Game over!)

[Axelrod]

I hate random votes.

Hello all.

[Axelrod]

I don't understand the "ahem again." Are you saying that the Invisible Woman

did

have that ability? (one shot self-protect). If we are supposed to know this, could you please update the Death list to say what she was?

The Invisible Woman had powers that could encompas a wide range of abilities, including role-block/protection/investigation/etc. so I actually think we don't really get anywhere speculating about that particular aspect at this time.

Also

FOS: Mlaker

. I'm slightly concerned you could have had real doubts about whether the Invisible Woman was good or not considering that death scene.

[Axelrod]

Hmm. How did I miss that? Sorry Dranko.

So, it doesn't tell us much about the set-up, but we know what we haven't lost yet, which is useful.

[Axelrod]

25 posts and mlaker already has 4 votes? That seems rather fast.

On the other hand: EnderX: if you did one random number generator and it picked mlaker, why do another one?

On the third hand: Nai, if you're kidding, why are you really voting?

[Axelrod]

I said that I wasn't serious about the first three sentences.

That doesn't answer the question. If you were "just kidding," then your post was "Vote: Mlaker" with no explanation/justification whatsoever. That's fine for first "random" votes, even second votes. But that was vote #4 with 6 to lynch. A bit late to be so cavalier with the votes.

Don't you think you would be suspicious of someone who put vote #4 on someone with no basis?

If you "knew you'd get wailed on" why did you do it?

[Axelrod]

I have to agree that Nai often looks scummy (from the few games I've played with him) but is often still town. It's stuff like this:

Yes, I was implying that you could be a cop. And doing it poorly. When you attack someone with such fervor, you either know something about them, or you're IS. Since you arn't the latter, there you go.

If you were innocent and Fritzler was a Cop, he wouldn't have gotten a scummy read on you. Therefore, you know that this is not true. So why would you "imply" that he could be a Cop when he

couldn't

be (at least not one who investigated you?)

Also, putting the 4th vote on someone with no justification in order to "spark some controversy" and "drum up conversation" is nuts. The only controversy is people asking you why the hell you are voting 4th with no reason. This is bad if you are a townie. (Frankly, it's also bad if you are a mafia, but I think it's more likely a mafia would slip and push a bandwagon too far with a "joke" vote like that).

You ask why the first 3 voters get off scott free? Personally, I'd say that 2 votes can go on "randomly" without arousing much suspicion, at least day one, but that 3rd vote needs a reason. In this case, Fritzler gave a reason. You may not have agreed with it, but it wasn't just a random vote either.

For all that, I'm not convinced you are a mafia yet. SOmething about your posts strikes me as just careless. But you certainly give people reasons to vote you.

I'd like to hear more from some of those who aren't saying much right now, particularly Aelyn.

[Axelrod]

Aelyn I have seen from Misetings, and is usually a strong player, which is why I singled him out. I could just as easily have mentioned the other "lurkers" but I don't know anything about them.

I'll agree somewhat with HezLucky that Ygg's question was odd, but maybe for a different reason. Why question me for singling out Aelyn? Why should you care? It's almost like you were protecting him by pointing out that two other people were doing the same thing. Unless you just thought I might have some inside info. (which I don't). If I knew Aelyn was scum I'd vote him.

[Axelrod]

Aelyn has posted elsewhere on the site recently, but not here. Which means he has forgotton about the game (possible mod-prod needed) or is deliberately lurking.

I don't know about EnderX. The most townish thing I've seen all game is when he unvoted Mlaker after Mlaker had reached 4 votes without much reason. So I don't think I'll be voting him at this time.

I'd like to hear something from Bamboomancer that wasn't a joke post also.

[Axelrod]

Dranko: Are you going to prod Aelyn?

Still not going to vote EnderX. I could vote Bamboomancer for that last post. Or Fritzler for being too pushy. Or Mlaker for doing nothing after he got 4 votes (except claim internet problems). Or possibly Nai for general carelessness/scummy play. Gee, so many choices. And no really good reasons.

[Axelrod]

Hmmm. Something's not right here.

Aquaman I can believe just fine. Major hero, etc., etc. The every-other-night self-protect sounds a little fishy. Self-protects are common mafia claims. But still possible, of course. It would be a clever false-claim if that's what it was. The flavor of it is not bad.

But now you are acting like you don't even know how it works. You don't know if it's "automatic" or not? How could you not know this? Either it's an ability that you choose to use--i.e. you PM the Mod. Which is what you made it sound like at first. Or it's one that kicks in whenever you are targeted for a kill with no choice to be made on your part. That seems simple enough. Where's the confusion?

And when you say you'd rather wait one more night, what are you talking about? Are you saying you would rather that the "Vig." waits one more night before trying to "test" your claim? So you can "activate" it tonight? Hell, if you "activate" it tonight, then you couldn't use it again tomorrow (every other night, that's what you said, right?) And then the Vig. would then be killing you tomorrow with his "test". What am I not understanding here?

Why are you not PMing the mod with questions about how your role works instead of saying you want to wait until tonight and see if you get a confirmation message? That makes no sense.

This does not look right, and I would like you to clear some of this up if you don't mind.

[Axelrod]

To me that sounds like you PM the Mod and tell him when you want to use your "shield." It's then "on" for that night regardless of whether or not you get targeted. The next night you can't use it.

If that's the case, obviously you didn't use it night one, right? So you could use it tonight. Leaving open the possibility that a vig could test the claim. But discussing this out in the open kind of moots the plan as I am assuming that if you are targeted for death twice you still die, so if we "planned" to test you, the mafia could take you out. One less thorn in their side, a townie they can't kill half the time. Frankly, if we believe the claim, I'd say a vig. should probably keep it in his pants.

Waiting to hear what you learn from the Mod.

[Axelrod]

Fritzler? Jumping the gun? When has

that

ever happened before? (says the person in all of two games with Fritzler at the moment).

[Axelrod]

Hmm. Sorry to derail this little theory that's going on, but I am...not Marvel. I have no issues with that part of the claim.

[Axelrod]

I still do have issues, however, with the vagueness of the ability. I just don't think the Mod would leave you in the dark about whether or not your ability was "on" on a given night. You are supposed to know this. It's a simple enough thing to ask. You now saying that even after you got your "clarification" you still don't know?

Now, maybe you

do

know it, but are deliberately being vague because you don't want to mafia to know when you are vulnerable. I could almost understand that, but if that's what you are doing, well, you should just say so.

[Axelrod]

Nai: the only reason you are being "outed" is because you are sounding scummy. You came out with that "every-other-night-immunity" thing all by yourself and then acted like you didn't understand how it worked, which was suspicious. If you really wanted to "trick" the mafia, you should have done it differently.

Fritzler: My first impulse is that the mafia wouldn't have safe-claims. They will have super-villain roles, and will just have to guess if challenged. Fact is, the field is so wide open for them that they don't really have to worry much about getting counter-claimed.

Mlaker: here we go again. Super-villains are referenced in post #1 of this game. Still trying to be helpful by telling us something obvious? Or still just not paying much attention?

[Axelrod]

One thing I have been contemplating that seems more useful than a Mavel/DC/Other claim is a Major/Minor Character claim. By this I mean we each say whether or not we are Major or Minor Superhero. My suspicion is that genuine townies are (for the most part) fairly major character due to the sheer number of roles to choose from. And if we all claim Major character now, a mafia forced into a claim won't be able to say "Booster Gold" or the "Martian Manhunter" later. They will, at a minimum, have to fake a major character--which will at least make them more nervous, and increase the chance of slip-ups.

Of course, if too many people claim "Minor" character right now then this won't work. And this obviously involes some degree of judgment--some might not consider the Invisible Woman "Major" while others might. But at least people will have to defend their choices later.

Before you accuse me of trying to "expose" major roles, and thereby give the mafia potentially good targets, let me just say I have reason to believe that a having a "major" superhero role is no guarantee of having a good ability.

[Axelrod]

Since Aquaman's powers don't suggest an obvious mafia role, its possible that the mod did not include an Aquaman in the game

Say what? I'm not sure I understand your point here.

EnderX just lost some of my faith in him with that last post, I hate it when people "unvote" to jump on a different bandwagon, but still keep the "FOS" on someone else.

[Axelrod]

I thought the deadline was being lifted if we got to 6 pages?

[Axelrod]

Well that's encouraging.

[Axelrod]

All right, dead GF and just one dead townie. All in all, I'd say that's a good night.

We are most likely looking at just one more mafia, so numbers are definitely in our favor. There is some (small) possibility of a SK role, but the way the kills have gone makes me question that.

Time to look back over day one....

[Axelrod]

Okay, can I just say NO to voting EnderX at this time. That really just doesn't make a lot of sense. I've re-read day one, with the knowledge that HezLucky was town and Nai and Aelyn were both scum. And I feel like certain people are now mostly clear. Mainly Yosarian2 who put a lot of pressure on Nai, and Fritzler as well. I've got EnderX right under them.

People who do not come off so great day one (to me) include Mlaker, Jentsu, bamboomancer and Ygg.

I disagree, however, that Nai would put the 4th vote on his mafia buddy so casually and so quickly, so that makes Mlaker more clear from that group. My main focus would be on those other three right now.

Also, I agree with Batman/Vig. kill last night.

[Axelrod]

Um, yeah. How are we supposed to say it's okay if we don't know what it is?

[Axelrod]

Well this is now very interesting. Mass role-claim anyone? I've been thinking about that. Might just end the game right here. Even if we couldn't figure it out immediately, our field would almost certainly be narrowed (assuming a Cop claim, with possible clearing of another townie).

Worst case scenario with 8 left is we have 1 mafia and 1 SK and 6 townies. What we don't want to do is get trigger-happy and blow our lead because we think we've got lynches to burn. If there's a SK, then my earlier list is nullified because Yosarian or Fritzler could easily be a SK and still have acted as they did. Ditto Mlaker.

I don't agree, however, that the town cannot have both a town Day-vig. and a town night vig. It's possible. Bamboomancer, I second the questions Fritzler has asked of you and will throw in one of my own: do you have any restrictions/limitations/penalties associated with your ability?

I haven't played too many Mini-games, but is it common to have 3 mafia + a SK in a mini game? Seems like the town could lose before it even gets started with those numbers. If there were 2 kills night 1 (instead of the 1 we actually had) then on day

one

it's 6 townies vs. 3 mafia vs. 1 SK. If we miss just one lynch day one (likely) and two more kills occur during the night (easily possible), then day 2 we have 3 town vs. 3 mafia vs. 1 SK. We have basically already lost, and the town doesn't have to have done anything but miss one lynch.

A powerful town might make up for this to some extent. We've seen a Doctor and a Role-blocker. We can assume a Cop. And now Bamboomancer is claiming Day-Vig. Possibly we have a Superman who is immune to night-kills?

What I'm saying is that a mass-claim might clear up some of these issues and allow us to pinpoint targets. We have enough of a lead now that it almost doesn't matter if the Cop is revealed.

Thoughts?

[Axelrod]

That's my point. A full claim is going to tell us more, and presumably be harder to false-claim for mafia.

If we have a SK that still potentially screws things up though. We lynch wrong, and if there are 2 kills in the night, tomorrow we are 3-1-1. If we had a vig kill in there (day or night) we could be 2-1-1. In that situation, we can't afford to lynch the SK or else we lose.

But I suppose we could do this in steps. We could get names first, then see where we are. After that we could ask for abilities.

[Axelrod]

Why I'm Batman, of course! As if you couldn't tell

[Axelrod]

Looking at this list, I'm tempted to sing a song from Sesame Street: "One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong...." But I'm wondering if it could really be that easy.

[Axelrod]

Also, I'm not SK (obv.) The reason I have questioned the presence of a SK in this game is because that would mean 2 missing kills--since I killed Aelyn. This is certainly possible. The SK could even have chosen to skip a kill one night to make us question his existance, but I am not certain of this. We could have had role-block, doc protect, etc. too.

As far as Bamboomancer goes, I'm agreeing that Jentsu looks like a likely target, but we should discuss things a bit more before having him just fire off. The Human Torch is the next weakest claim (by name). Then probably Daredevil. What a coincidence, those were my top suspicions going into this, which is actually kind of unfortunate.

EnderX: everyone and his mother is going to be assuming you are the Cop. Question then is, do you have anything useful to reveal--clearing people from suspicion is good at this stage.

Do we want an ability claim? Jentsu claimed vanilla. If there's more vanillas that makes at least that part of the claim stronger.

[Axelrod]

It's tough to survive as a SK if you have to kill out in the open (though maybe he could choose to do it in secret).

Still, looking at Dranko's other game, it did indeed have 3 mafia and a SK with 12 people (it also ended very quickly with a high body count and a SK victory). I'd expect the town to be strong against that--I don't think there was a vanilla townie in that other game either, was there? All that is making Jentsu look like a good target regardless.

Bamboo: I asked you this before and you didn't answer: are there any restrictions/limitations/disadvantages to your ability?

[Axelrod]

Two minor inconsistencies I found with the claims when reviewing older posts:

Before you accuse me of trying to "expose" major roles, and thereby give the mafia potentially good targets, let me just say I have reason to believe that a having a "major" superhero role is no guarantee of having a good ability.

When I first read this, I took it to mean that you had a major role, but not a good ability, but vig is a pretty powerful one. Any comment?

A) I didn't want the mafia to kill me
B) I genuinely believed that most of the roles would be major heroes and obviously we can't all have powerful roles.
C) I was fully prepared to back off that statement if too many people started saying they were "minor" heroes.
D) Something else.

[Axelrod]

We are not in a tremendous rush here. As I said earlier, if there really is a SK in this game, then we need to be careful about who we eliminate. If we target Jentsu and he's

not

mafia/SK, we then have to lynch someone. Who? If we miss that lynch, and there's not any crossfire from mafia/SK, then suddenly we are at 2-1-1. If I vigged someone incorrectly as well, we might then have already lost.

Some people are definitely looking not mafia. But an SK could almost be anyone.

Question: does anyone have any information accumulated over the past two nights which might help us?

[Axelrod]

Well, from my perspective, that's not necessarily true. So there.

[Axelrod]

Vig. is a two-edged sword. Can end up really hurting the town, I've seen it happen.

That said, Bamboomancer still has a few outstanding questions to answer.

[Axelrod]

Bamboo: are you saying you don't think I'm really Batman? Bacause that's different from saying you think I'm Batman, but am actually a SK. Considering the speculation that Batman did the vig. it would have fairly stupid of me to say I'm Batman if I really wasn't. Does that invalidate your point?

I don't recall the Hulk killing too many people in the Comics either.

What about claims for the remaining folks. Cop/Doc/Vig./Roleblocker are all out, what's left anyway?

[Axelrod]

So we have Booster Gold, vanilla townie, and the Human Torch, insane/paranoid Cop running neck and neck for the title of most unlikely role in this game.

The presense of another vanilla would add some credibility to Jentsu's claim. The presence of another Cop (even one of unknown sanity) might actually add some credibility to Mlaker's claim. As it stands, Mlaker's

claim

is worse. The fact he didn't say anything about his second investigation is not a good sign, as is his attempt to compare himself to Professor X (who is not the type of Cop who you would characterize as sane/insane).

Waiting for further details. Also, still raising the issue of everyone just completely claiming to see where we are at--what abilities we have at our disposal, whether anyone else can be "cleared", etc. If we are careful, we are in a strong position here. Being careful does not mean instantly killing the first person who makes a dubious claim.

I still think Nai putting the 4th vote on him so early in the game weighs in his favor, however.

[Axelrod]

JENTSU-Booster gold/Vanilla Townie
MLAKER-The Human Torch/Paranoid or Insane Cop
ENDERX-Professor Charles Xavier/RoleCop
AXELROD-Batman/vig
FRITZLER- Greenlantern
BAMBOOMANCER- the hulk/1x dayvig
YGGDRASIL-Daredevil
YOSARIAN2-Spiderman

So three people have not fully claimed yet. Green Lantern, Daredevil and Spiderman. Actually I haven't

fully

claimed yet either, in that I didn't state my limitation. I was waiting to see what Bamboomancer said about his ability. My limitation is that if I were to miss 2 kills in a row, I would then kill myself out of remorse. Fortunataly, I didn't miss, so this is not really an issue anymore. I can believe Bamboomancer could get a single day-vig. kill and not be some kind of SK.

I think we have the capability of winning this thing today, so while I'm not going to ignore the possibility that the three unclaimeds might have an ability that is best left unstated, I'm going to ask for full claims once again, so everything is out on the table. Particularly from Ygg. who, no offense, seems the least clear out of that group.

If you have an ability that you have good reason not to reveal, well just say that.

[Axelrod]

Um, perhaps you should read my post again? Are you under the impression that I am trying to rush things? I thought you were the one with the itchy trigger finger (and Fritzler, of course).

I'm advocating proceeding with caution, gathering as much information as we can, and then making our decisions. Which I've said multiple times. I think we

could

win today if we played it smart, but we don't

have to

win today. That wasn't what I was saying at all.

[Axelrod]

I'm not "fishing," I'm asking straight out. The "reason" is to get more people confirmed and/or compare the claims to the current ones to see what looks most suspicious. At worst there is 1 mafia and a SK still around, and there's no actual evidence for a SK (except for people thinking the town shouldn't have 2 vig-types).

What I said was if one of those unclaimed roles strongly feels that their ability is such that it shouldn't be said, well, I guess they shouldn't say. I don't know what that might be, considering the Cop is already exposed and the almost certain target tonight, but I don't know everything (hard as that is to admit).

"Missing" a kill means killing a townie, obviously.

[Axelrod]

Way to ignore the question, Fritzler.

[Axelrod]

So is Mlaker dead now? Are we just waiting for Dranko to confirm it? ANyone want to talk about what we do if he's not mafia?

[Axelrod]

Saying "Whaaaa???" doesn't exactly get you any points, Fritzler. But I do agree that of the people who haven't said what they can do yet, Ygg. is the most suspicious looking, of the people who have fully claimed, Jentsu's looks the worst.

We could lynch one today, and if wrong, I could eliminate the other one tonight. Problem is, if there is really a SK in addition to another mafia, and there are 2

other

kills tonight (and neither kill hits the mafia or SK, obviously), suddenly we would be down to 3 players, with the possibility of a 1-1-1 split. That makes me feel like I shouldn't be vigging anyone, so in the absolute worst case situation, there would still be two town tomorrow.

The worst case scenario, however, assumes no crossfire/double-targeting from the hypothetical SK and mafia, and that neither Jentsu or Ygg. is a scum, which may not be likely.

Confirmed (to me) =
EnderX (until soneone else claims to be a Cop)
Yosarian2 (by virtue of EnderX's inspection)
Bamboomancer (by mod post)

[Axelrod]

Didn't "Aquaman" claim something like that? Is it automatic, or something you have to "activate" by choice.

No offense, but with that ability I probably would plan to vig. you tonight to test you if you were not the lynch today. So if that won't work, you might want to consider saying.

[Axelrod]

Not really doing yourself any favors by trying to cast doubts on EnderX here. We had an insane/paranoid Cop (don't know which) already.

That's

a negative town role--which is already a counter balance to powerful town roles. Now you're seriously suggesting that the insane Cop may have been our only Cop? And the

mafia

might have gotten a Cop instead? No way.

Look at me agreeing with Fritzler.

[Axelrod]

Anyone else want to chime in here?

[Axelrod]

Yosarian: you are the only one who hasn't claimed yet. Is that deliberate? I assume you don't have any useful information that might add to this discussion at this point?

[Axelrod]

Well, the question was more whether you had a good reason

not

to say at this point. The reason

to

say is so we can then maybe judge the credibility of all the claims. Too many self-protect roles? Too many Cops? Another vanilla? Another "kill" ability", that kind of thing.

You are fairly clear at the moment, so I don't feel so bad about you keeping your secrets, but that then puts you in perhaps the best position to evaluate everyone else's claim.

So, who are you suspicious of and why?

[Axelrod]

Bah. No one is doing anything. Now I'm suspicious of Fritzler too. It occurred to me that not everyone who has a Ring is, in fact, a good guy--Sinestro anyone? If the mod was evil, and gave him a safe claim of Green Lantern, we could be in trouble.

Not withstanding this, I'm still going to

vote: Yggdrasil

because I can be a paranoid maniac sometimes, and logic tells me ygg and Jentsu are still the best targets. I will vig Jentsu in the night if ygg comes up innocent--unless people really don't want me to.

I'd kind of like EnderX to check out Fritzler (especially since Fritzler is being so nice and assuring us that EnderX will live) but that's in his discretion.

[Axelrod]

Well if EnderX is scum, where is our Cop? I hope you aren't counting the Paranoid/Insane Human Torch.

Now if

you

were a Cop, Yosarian (spider sense and all), that would be one thing, but barring that, and also considering his general play, EnderX is looking pretty clear.

[Axelrod]

(sigh) Fine, I've been pretty completly outed anyway, so I might as well claim.

Yes, I am a cop. Thanks, Axlerod. Really, what on Earth possessed you to keep prodding me for my role like that over and over again, when I clearly didn't want to claim?

I'm either sane or nieve, I'm not sure which. Night 1, I investigated Aylen and got innocent. Turns out, he was the godfather, so that might have been why I got innocent. Night 2, I investigated you, Axelrod, because early yesterday it looks like you were defending scum a bit, and got innocent.

Now, if Fritzler is telling the truth, he's going to have to guess if he should protect me or Ender tonight (and please don't say either way in the thread, ok Fritzer? Make the scum guess). Again, thanks a lot Axelrod.

Look, I in no way shape or form "outed" you with my post there, Yosarian. I made my reasoning perfectly clear and said (clearly) that if you had a reason not to claim then you shouldn't. I didn't "know" you were a Cop. I was actually quite surprised to hear it.

Knowing that, however, means we should be able to figure a few things out. EnderX says he investigated you and got "Spiderman." This was after you claimed so he could be totally lying about it. But if he's lying you are clear (since he would be the scum) and if he's not lying then you are

still

clear, since I can't see Spiderman as evil in a game where the other bads are Lex Luthor (who was also Godfather) and Joker.

The idea of both a Paranoid and Naive Cop is somewhat concerning, with a "RoleCop" being the only "true" Cop, in the sense that a character's "name" gives away whether or not they are evil. EnderX was quite up-front about claiming Profesor X, though, which seems quite an unlikely false-claim. You seem to believe him also, right? If you're both innocent, then there's really no problem here. If one of you somehow is a scum, it's only then that the town could get into trouble.

[Axelrod]

Are there other opinions about the vig? Fritzler, you saying I should lay off Jentsu now (if Ygg. turns up innocent).

If I do, then worst case (2 deaths tonight) we are at 4 players tomorrow with a mafia and a SK. If there's no SK, then we would be at 5 players tomorrow with a 4-1 advantage. The mafia would want to get a Cop, but Fritzler is claiming a protection which will be used on one of them, so they risk missing if they try.

Personally, I'm thinking of laying off just to get the SK question settled once and for all (at least in my own mind, if not in anyone else's).

[Axelrod]

It would appear both Ygg. and Jentsu have gone AWOL.

[Axelrod]

Well that's unfortunate.

Obviously I didn't shoot last night. After we got the SK, I figured the numbers favored not vigging anyone (if I had, and Jentsu was innocent, we would be lynch or lose right now, with our "Cops" only having been able to possibly clear one more person). Now we can still "miss" a lynch and get to tomorrow, with additional investigation results possible.

Interesting that the mafia picked Yosarian, with a 50-50 that Fritzler would be "protecting" him, and also the possibility he was naive, and therefore useless.

Jentsu still seems the top choice to lynch, however. I'd feel somewhat better if EnderX could "confirm" that Fritzler is, in fact, the Green Lantern.

[Axelrod]

Well that's unfortunate.

Obviously I didn't shoot last night. After we got the SK, I figured the numbers favored not vigging anyone (if I had, and Jentsu was innocent, we would be lynch or lose right now, with our "Cops" only having been able to possibly clear one more person). Now we can still "miss" a lynch and get to tomorrow, with additional investigation results possible.

Interesting that the mafia picked Yosarian, with a 50-50 that Fritzler would be "protecting" him, and also the possibility he was naive, and therefore useless.

Jentsu still seems the top choice to lynch, however. I'd feel somewhat better if EnderX could "confirm" that Fritzler is, in fact, the Green Lantern.

[Axelrod]

What?

Fritzler, that's completely stupid. I assume you meant to say you think I'm scum claiming responsibility for

Aelyn's

kill, which you now think was "actually" done by the SK (who was Ygg? Remember?) That doesn't work in like 5 different ways. Think for a minute.

Also, are you saying you don't understand why I wouldn't vig. Jentsu? Now you think he's innocent?

I'm disappointed. Fortunately, it doesn't really matter. Whatever EnderX says should allow us to lock-up the game, one way or the other.

[Axelrod]

*sigh*

You know what. I'm going to let everyone else post first (esp. EnderX) before I waste my time answering that. Hopefully, there will be no need (sorry for sounding condescending, I'm mainly being lazy).

[Axelrod]

Well, at least this clears Fritzler (not that I was advocating your lynch today). But good grief people:

Please, let me walk you through this:

(1) Batman cannot possibly be a mafia role in a game where the Joker and Lex Luthor are the other mafia. Not unless he was somehow a Godfather role, except:

(2) The mafia GF is dead.

(3) Batman

might

arguably have fit as a SK role, except:

(4) The SK is dead.

(5) I have also been investigated as innocent by Spiderman, for whatever that's worth.

(6) I also challenged Nai day 1. Fritzler is taking all the credit for this, but I rather think that Yosarian and myself were doing most of the questioning.

The only way you can possibly believe I am mafia is if you think I cleverly claimed Batman (with multiple people, including myself, agreeing he probably did the night-kill on Aelyn, remember, so I was effectively claiming the vig. kill on Aelyn at the same time I claimed Batman) before

FOUR

other people claimed. People who might easily have been Batman themselves. People who might easily have claimed being the "real" vigilante. Hell, the

Human Torch

had name-claimed, but not ability claimed at that point. He could

easily

have been a vigilante role.

Claiming Batman, and claiming the vig. kill on Aelyn, would have been a suicidally stupid move for a mafia. Go back and read my posts if you don't get this. Everything I have done has been consistent. Fritzler, you thought I might have been a SK, but never a mafia.

To believe I am a mafia, you would have to believe I deduced:

(1) that Batman was not in the game

(2) that the SK killed Aelyn (as opposed to an actual town vig.)

(3) that I could get away with false-claiming the kill, because the SK would be too afraid to "challange" me, even though

he

would have known I was lying.

(4) that I am the most brilliant/lucky mafia who ever lived.

I would also have just killed the Cop who declared me innocent. The Cop who I would "know" to be naive, and therefore useless to the town.

The only reason Fritzler is voting me is because I didn't vig Jentsu. Well, there was

absolutely no need

to vig. Jentsu once the SK was eliminated. Can you not see this? Killing Jentsu was not the percentage play.

There is exactly one play here which is to lynch Jentsu now (as I said at the beginning of the day). If, somehow, he's not mafia, well, then we've been played by EnderX, but I'm now certain that's not the case.

Vote: Jentsu

Come on people, let's finish this. You can lynch me tomorrow if I'm wrong (thanks to me there can still be a tomorrow).

[Axelrod]

I don't suppose we can convince Jentsu to vote for himself?

This is taking a long time.

[Axelrod]

Bah. What a waste of time. Even if we lynched wrong (it's not wrong) you still get your investigation tonight. You don't have to investigate Bamboomancer--he's Mod. confirmed to be the Hulk. We lynch Jentsu, and if that didn't end the game, you would investigate me. Everyone is checked.

Since I believe you, however, I'm certain that lynching Jentsu ends the game.

[Axelrod]

You might want to start preparing those words, Bamboo.

Just saying. I didn't make the role.

[Axelrod]

Bamboomancer, either you or EnderX can end the day (and the game, hopefully). One of you needs to do something.

[Axelrod]

Go town! We ruled this game.

Good game Fritzler (except for the whole voting me on the last day thing ). I wonder where the missing kills were? 3 mafia + a SK is really hard on the town in a 12 person game that starts at night, and we apparantly had at least one defective Cop to boot. But we made no mistakes, except for the day-vig on Mlaker.

Thanks for the game Dranko.

*the Dark Night vanishes into shadow*