There's no way she's town.
Mini 983: It Got Worse (GAME OVER)
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Amished Mafia Scum
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Response: Square root of 2
I have no clue what the hell SP is doing, Llama's line of questioning was totally legit and what I'd expect from him.
Where the hell did RayFrost go? My Frosty buddy, come back!
Unvote
Vote: SocioPath
Just making sure my vote is there.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
No, my name is not "Ed."-
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Amished Mafia Scum
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Depends on who "he" is. Llama isn't being over-aggressive. SP is being overly confrontational in my eyes. That's not exactly the word I want to use but it's like he's posturing and throwing suspicion on anybody that casts any doubt or suspicion on him {SP}.RedCoyote wrote:
Do you think he's being overly aggressive? What about Nikanor? Are either of these players deliberately misleading?Amish 77 wrote:I have no clue what the hell SP is doing, Llama's line of questioning was totally legit and what I'd expect from him.
Nikanor seems more passive as the "recipient" of some buddying by SP, but then not saying much. I can't really hold this against him specifically, though, since there's quite a few people that have flown under my radar thusfar (magnus being an obvious recent example).
I'd say SP is being intentionally unhelpful and mysterious, but not really misleading.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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I had (and have) my vote on somebody, I'm not a pansy you pansy.Amished wrote:I think that the mod is a pansy and should place a vote. Not voting is clearly anti-town. He's also active lurking.
Amished gains a point for being a pansy.
FoS: Sykedoc
(:shock: this is my first FoS EVER )
Socio's end of 117 is completely bogus. Because one person doesn't refute your shitty points doesn't mean that they aren't shitty.
@RC: There's just a lot of nuance-y things that bug the hell outta me about SP. Attacking Llama for something like that seems out of bounds for a townie, his response to magnus (admittedly happened after my post there) is the same way. I don't see how it's in the town's best interest for SP-town to be so outrageous when he's not always like this.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
No, my name is not "Ed."-
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Nik posted
You "made a conclusion" from nik's post
mo talked about your conclusions
Whether or not nik refuted jack shit means nothing. MO can still question you about your posts/conclusions. Why are you impossible?
Also, why aren't more people voting SP?I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
No, my name is not "Ed."-
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Amished Mafia Scum
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Not really. Everyone attacks incomprehensible actions. That's like saying voting everyone on the player list at some point will make you vote scum. It's technically true but the result is worse than sticking a fork into an electrical socket.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
No, my name is not "Ed."-
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Amished Mafia Scum
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I forgot about the other game I was in with SocioPath, after he brought it up, Ray was posting when UK and SP hopped on him as us-scum (we were a hydra).
@SpyreX: In this game, I have a strong-town read on Llama (also, thanks SPS; that makes me less wary to say something like that), and obviously I know my own alignment. Therefore, Socio has not "caught scum" in either of his major ventures thusfar where he's annoyed the hell outta me and Llama (both for rather legitimate reasons).I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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Uhh, I'm pretty sure in Portal we pushed the lynches pretty hard not based on anything you did.
I can guarantee that your "scumtell" that you caught in LRC v1 was RayFrost.
Hydra play doesn't stick with me as much as half isn't me (typically) and I talk with the partner for the most part. Other than UK I couldn't tell you who was in LRC (and you, obv). Other than SOG I couldn't be completely sure of who was in Portal. I don't buy your method of scumhunting as I know my alignment and you targeting me, and earlier targeting Llama I don't feel has found scum at all this game.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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@UK: Believing SPS? I just have a super strong pro-town read of Llama who is also getting annoyed with SP.
Oh, about the dayprotect! Assuming SPS-scum: if Llama gets targeted it outs him as a liar and it's a 1:1 for town, so it prevents them from really doing anything to Llama. As town, it's either a gambit (that the scum wouldn't know if it is or not) or it's real, both ways it limits the scum. No matter what SPS's alignment is it works in my favor with my current read of Llama.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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magnus_orion wrote:@red and ed: Do you really believe steam-powered shovel suspicious for his day protect?
For me it's a null-tell. I can see it happen from either alignment. One thing that helps (barely) is that he also thought Llama was obv-town just as I did.Amished wrote: Oh, about the dayprotect! Assuming SPS-scum: if Llama gets targeted it outs him as a liar and it's a 1:1 for town, so it prevents them from really doing anything to Llama. As town, it's either a gambit (that the scum wouldn't know if it is or not) or it's real, both ways it limits the scum. No matter what SPS's alignment is it works in my favor with my current read of Llama.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
No, my name is not "Ed."-
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Amished Mafia Scum
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@m_o: I'm sure scum wouldn't think that they'd be called out on it by the mod (somebody who knows). This way they could get town-cred by "protecting" somebody so pro-town as Llama, essentially without repercussions. After the "dayprotect" they could kill them at night (in case of a day-kill or something) if they later claimed that it only worked during the day; or decide to kill somebody else that was more of a threat.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
No, my name is not "Ed."-
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It's a bastard mod game. I don't know what roles are out there. Daykill is a possibility to me in bastard mod games. Therefore, dayprotect isn't out of the realm of possibility.
You tell me why a townie lies about an ability, claims it was for "reactions" and doesn't glean information from said "reactions"? How does that benefit/even make sense as town?I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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Amished Mafia Scum
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What?magnus_orion wrote:--> is inclined to agree with UK on all points.
unvote vote: Amished
Also to it is the fact that Amished is immediately acting as though SPS is totally serious (implying that he has completely accepted that SPS wouldn't lie, which suggests he knows SPS is town.) and that he tried to organize town's actions in response, and more specifically tried to direct a hypothetical day vig to check whether or not SPS was telling the truth (implying a desire to be seen as pro-town (looking for liars) and a desire for control of town's actions through that (to ensure he's not eliminated))
However, I'd still like to hear from SPS as to what reactions he expected/was looking for.
@UK: I guess I'm not as experienced with bastard mod games as you are or something, but as any alignment I typically don't think about the mod. SCoug's b-mod game he pretty much stayed out of it and I was in a tar game where he pretty much stayed out of it except for vote-counts.
Therefore: it wouldn't even cross my mind that the mod would really step in on something like that.
I don't expect town to lie at all, ever (except for various lylo-endgame situations to turn the game around (damn you Sajin)), especially not in the middle of the day. Scum can (and do) lie when they think that they can get away with it (see my stance on mod "intervention"). Lying about a day-protect is an easy way to gain town-points without actually doing a damn thing since you control the kill anyways.
@mo: SPS is town or scum, right? I expect town to tell the truth, and scum to lie and/or tell the truth when it suits them. If SPS isn't telling the truth, then he's not a townie.
A = townies
B = scum
C = tell truth
D = tell lies
There are only A and B.
A only does C
B does C and D.
X did D. Therefore, X isn't A. If X isn't A, then X is B.
@Spyre: Exactly my point. He said it was for "reactions" but the person that he voted (who he was already voting for) didn't have *any* reactions. So SPS couldn't have been looking for reactions if it was for "lolreactions".I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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I guess I don't see why it wouldn't actually work here then.
Lying never crossed my mind. I suspect anybody who considers it. I've been burned once by a townie lying; but not severely as I think the town would've lost that game anyways.
Where is the townie intent behind his dayprotect? I'm trying to look at it from both ways but I don't see why a townie would do something like that.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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The only person that comes to mind to do something like that for "lolreactions" was RichardGHP, and I hold pretty much anyone above him in terms of skill.
Also, how can he really say it was for "lolreactions" when nothing changed for him after he did that? It's a convenient excuse to get out of any pressure at all.
I will give you that it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense as scum, but it makes less (read: zero) sense as town. Especially after his
1) where he claimed he wanted it to be believed and credible (see the "P.S.")Steam-Powered Shovel wrote:Fake daykills every time gets boring.
Unvote, vote: SocioPath
P.S. I chose LlamaFluff 'cause I figured that would be the most credible choice.
I've played with SPS a couple times and I don't recall him ever doing something like this so it was out of character for him. Besides, what possible reactions would a protect actually garner? Did he expect scum to come out and say "oooo, I guess we can't kill him now, can we?"? I don't think so. The claim doesn't make sense for "lolreactions" nor does lying about it in the first place, nor does it fit my perception of SPS-town.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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@mo: I gave an example of when town would lie, and no scenario that I can think of 7 pages into D1 fall into "town should lie right now".
Also, I said that I've seen day-vigs in b-mod games (SCoug's being the most vivid one) so it's not out of the realm of possibility. Secondly, Llama doesn't fall into my category of "should be day-vigged" so a protect would be unnecessary unless scum can day-kill.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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@UK: hear about what, exactly?
As for "meta": I glean a certain standard of play from "meta". No tells or anything that I generally see referred to as "meta" by 99% of the people. If I join a game with zwet (for example) then my "meta" of him adjusts for his standard of play (not posting a lot) and goes from there. I don't look for tells or anything like that.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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Amished Mafia Scum
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BECAUSE YOU'RE BEING FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE.
I truthfully explain everything that I thought and think through, nothing is inconsistent and everything I fucking say is a lie apparently. Jesus christ. I've answered every question posed to me as soon as I read it, and I don't see where my scum fucking motivation would be to do any of this. Before this the game was moving slow as fuckall and I was annoyed to hell and back with SP's doing shit and blaming Llama for it; and then SPS doing shit and I get attacked for it. The directions of the attacks make NO sense and I don't feel like dealing with it anymore.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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@mo: I did think it was something weird and I weighed both possibilities and passed it off (see 159). However, more information has been gleaned (the edit) and it doesn't make sense for town to do something like that. Therefore, it must be a scum action. Then further accounting in the "lol reactions" for the "why?" question, I don't see town doing that either (See last paragraph of 197 for detailed analysis) ALSO doesn't make sense as town.
@UK: because I don't give a shit. The people I trust the most in this game to see reason are all attacking me (Ray is the only one that isn't, and he hasn't had a chance to post since then) so the good players will convince the not-so-good that they're right despite my defenses. This way I don't have to expend energy into something that looks like a hopeless cause and you can get on with your lives and actually find scum.
Also, I have no idea what you're referring to about the ??? person. Whether or not they exposed the lie doesn't really affect me other than it exposed the lie (which was pro-town (or necessary, and in that case null) and I'm not attacking them)
Again: As me-scum; I wouldn't expect anybody to know that I lied about something in game. Therefore, there's no risk to claiming a day-protect. You can get "confirmed" by not having Llama die that day or at least look pro-town for preventing a possible kill (that may or may not happen).There's nothing that hurt him as scum if his lie wasn't exposed.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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*takes deep, calming breaths*
One thing wrong with your situation: I don't think it's guilty until proven innocent, but this proves (in my eyes) that SPS is guilty.
Look at this timeline for SPS-town:
I want to get some reactions to liven up the game/find scum.
I claim to have a PASSIVE ability, on somebody that's unlikely to be tested in any case, and possibly waste a pro-town action (day-vig, in your example).
Wait.
Lie gets exposed, claims that it was for lolreactions; no reactions have occurred. Votes for person that he was already voting for (since the person didn't have reactions)
SPS-scum:
I want to potentially draw out a pro-town action (day-vig), or get townie cred.
Claim Passive ability (if tested, then vig both daykills a townie, and *doesn't* daykill a scumbaggo, if not, townie cred)
lie is exposed
OH SHIT, what can I say to make it appear logical? lolreactions!
The town side of it doesn't make sense. You don't get reactions from claiming a passive ability. You make yourself a target as *either* side by lying; but you could (assuming day-vig because you brought it up) lose a townie, and get yourself lynched for it wasting a day because there's no possible reason for town not to jump on something like that.
Much of this is moot because I don't believe a vig would shoot in that case anyways since both
1) they might not believe Llama is scum, and vigs are for scum
2) they might believe SPS, and shooting somebody that's protected wastes their ability.
@mo: I didn't ask either, but you don't claim a passive ability to draw out reactions. daykills are proactive and would generate reactions; but the action doesn't line up with the excuse.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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The only reactions that have occurred were because the lie was exposed, really. I didn't say anything until it was brought to my attention by you and magnus; and this is really the only reaction.
What about my early play do you feel is scummy?I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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Amished Mafia Scum
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Where have I "known too much"? I'm confident in my limited reads, but I don't see how I would "know" much of anything. If I can explain why/where I got something that you seem to think I "know"; please allow me to do so for you.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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magnus_orion wrote:
He hasn't responded yetAlso, to everyone jumping on Amished for what he did, why aren't you giving RedCoyote the same treatment?
Forgot about this... (adding to SK's point with quotes for relevance)RedCoyote wrote:Y'all are kind of talking over my head with this "LRC" and "LRCv2". I feel like the entire discussion is centering on meta that I'm not going to read. I don't see the supposed contradiction that Spyrex does, so I don't really have a problem with that.
Vote: Steam-Powered Shovelfor being unsure what he's trying to accomplish by with his "day protect" remark. I think Llama is doing a good enough job for himself, and I don't know why SPS felt the need to jump in and attach himself to him like that.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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That's actually a great point, SK. The first part of RC's post reads like he knows that I'm town; and assumed the guilty without questioning/more information since it doesn't read like the lie had been exposed.
Unvote
Vote: RedCoyoteI'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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@SP: I don't have any buddies.
@UK: Llama questioned SP the same way I wanted to. Like viewpoints is the best same-alignment tell I've ever seen. He reacted in the thread the same way that I did when I was trying to figure out SP's ramblings.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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@SP: I did. It made logical sense to me; seeing two like situations (both attacking SPS for the dayprotect thing) and only seeing one person get attacked for it. From there, the person being attacked is most likely town and scum are generating the attack since it's not a bilateral attack (and the other attacker of SPS is therefore scum). That's half the reason I've switched my vote to RC off of SPS, because it made sense both logically and in mafia-context.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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I explained why I thought that they were different (RC just flat out attacked SPS, I gave it a null to slight pro-town tell until I learned that it was a lie). However, the (simple) basis for the attack on me is that I attacked SPS. RC also attacked SPS, but he isn't being attacked like I'm being attacked.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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@mo: it's been a day and a half (the day-protect happened yesterday morning). My reaction was different from RC (I was innocent until proven guilty, RC was other way around) for reactions regarding the claim.
Also, while SK and my premise factors in on interactions between players, I also need the flip of RC to nail the next person to the door. I'm also not going to reveal who I think is scum in the wagon to keep scum in the dark if I'm onto the next person in the team or if I'm not. I don't see any reason for me to reveal that information.
@SP: Ok, he looked at the wagon that formed against me (UK/MO, mainly). This would make sense since it was the attack of me and not of RC that SK brought up as a critical situation in the game, while Spyre's vote on me happened before the period of reference that was critical to SK's reasoning (as was your vote on me). He then analyzed further the wagon and made a gut call in the spur of the moment. Not seeing a lot of scum motivation behind it; if SK is scum (and if you believe whatsoever that he's not scum with me), why would he transfer suspicion onto either a different mislynch, or (what I believe will happen) onto scum?I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
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- Location: Minnesota
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Amished Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3679
- Joined: December 23, 2008
- Location: Minnesota
I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to use half of the mod-records in a way that won't ruin the rest of the day. If it won't end the day, why not test to see if FoS's will do something? I volunteer myself if you'd like.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
No, my name is not "Ed."-
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Amished Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3679
- Joined: December 23, 2008
- Location: Minnesota