Mini 986: Beatles Mafia (Game Over)

[Scott Brosius]

Vote: VasudeVa

So many Vs I couldn't pass it up.

[Scott Brosius]

I'm suspicious of anyone who likes the yankees, everyone knows A-Fraud is a cheater...

Cheaters on every team in baseball.

[Scott Brosius]

@Scott Brosius_ Tell me precisely with which probability are you scum? With what probability am I?

There is a 0% chance I am scum. Usually there are 3-4 threats to the town in a 12 person game. So the chance you are scum is 3 or 4 out of 11.

@Scott/Inhim: What do you think of the wagon on you?

Don't really think anything of it. Wagoning is a good way out of RVS and I'm at L-4 so it's not a big deal.

[Scott Brosius]

There is a 0% chance I am scum. Usually there are 3-4 threats to the town in a 12 person game. So the chance you are scum is 3 or 4 out of 11.

So first you say you got a 0% chance then you say there's a 3/11 possibility
Numbers dont add up

Yes removing myself from the game as town, there are 11 other players, hence the 3 or 4 out of 11 possibility.

[Scott Brosius]

I would join the Karma wagon, but at least Karma's trying. InHimshallIbe hasn't done anything except vote for me.

Bah, you're probably town.

vote: MonkeyMan

Are you going to explain this vote or what?

Unvote
Vote: inHim

[Scott Brosius]

@muh316, Anon, VasudeVa: I've provided reasons why I think that, although similar, a MonkeyMan lynch is better than a Karma lynch. Do you agree? Would you jump onto this wagon?

At this point Im thinking one of Monkey or Karma is scum.

Also, if Monkey is scum, Zang is 100% scum with him.

Why would you even say something with that degree of certainty? Sadly, it's more of a town tell, as I doubt scum would say something like this.

@Anon: Is this 100% working both ways. If Zang is scum does that 100% Monkey is scum or do you feel its only the order you suggested?

I tend to devalue the importance of connections D1, and just attempt to find the scummiest player. Setting up relationships (especially with 4 pages of discussion) is just going to cloud actual scumhunting. Connections have more substance after a scum flip.

Still waiting for inhim to explain his vote movements, since he has not done that at any point. Remains my top suspect.

What? Before today, I haven't posted anything outside of RVS like you, SB and SD. And InHimshallibe is pretty much active lurking. why vote for me?

This reeks of being overly defensive over a single vote. Minor scum points for Zang

[Scott Brosius]

I think inHim is a town-on-town wagon. SB could be scum, but I have newbtown reads from dana and to a lesser extent muh316.

Why do you think it's town on town?

[Scott Brosius]

I think listing town reads is fine. Scum (at least less careful scum) are so focused on trying to secure a mislynch that they don't want to admit to anyone being town.

Can we get a prod on MonkeyMan?

[Scott Brosius]

So where is monkeyman i havent seen him in while

inhim at least promised to start participating. You get prodded and deliver this gem?

Unvote
Vote:muh316

[Scott Brosius]

Um, any particular reason? If its lurking and general unhelpfulness, the pot calling the kettle black comes to mind.

[Scott Brosius]

Um, any particular reason? If its lurking and general unhelpfulness, the pot calling the kettle black comes to mind.

I dont like the push on dana which is screaming easy target all over his head. Thats the basic premise of one of Monkey and Karma is scum.

I dont think lurking and being unhelpful are conclusive scumtells, btw. Do you?

Lately I've just seen so many lurking, unhelpful people flip scum, but it seems to be against current site meta to lynch these kinds of people. I agree that D1 lurker lynches usually aren't helpful. I think being unhelpful is generally more indicative of scum than general lurking.

Hypocrisy doesn't sit well with me, but it seems I just didn't give Anon enough time after his original post to back it up.

[Scott Brosius]

Also may not have internet until Friday.

[Scott Brosius]

ok guys heres my scum list
monkeyman
zang
karma
inhim

I'm not so sure about zang but there might be a chance of them three to be scum as a team. They've been showing lots of scummy behavior and I'm not getting any town reads from any of these guys. And sorry guys about my "gem" its just that I was busy the past few days.

Can you explain why these are on your scum list (mostly the middle 2 as monk and inhim are pretty self-explanatory)

@Scott: What inHim participation?

---

He promised participation at the time which was more than muh offered, but inhim hasn't delivered.

Unvote
Vote inHim

Also, muh is reads as town.

Just to clarify, you are saying that you believe muh is town here?

[Scott Brosius]

@Scott: What inHim participation?

---

He promised participation at the time which was more than muh offered, but inhim hasn't delivered.

Unvote
Vote inHim

O RLY? I think I've showed up this week as much as anyone else.

Well that's for others to decide and not you. Also I cannot recall any scum-hunting or even any scum suspects of yours.

[Scott Brosius]

O RLY? I think I've showed up this week as much as anyone else.

Yes, but you have provided no real content and that is just as bad as not posting anything at all.  

Actually, this is scummier and more interesting than someone who hasn't posted at all.

[Scott Brosius]

Dana, muh, Zang and Scott, in one paragraph, what is the reason that makes you prefer inhim over star?

Monkey was scummy and just left the game. Inhim continues to active lurk and defend as if he is participating.

[Scott Brosius]

inHim is a weird kill. .

---

I think there is 1-2 scum in SB wagon and 1 scum in inHim. I don't think SD is scum.

Vote: Zang

, for now. (I did suspect him sometime in the middle of D1.)

Why do you think this? General comments about scum being on X wagon are not helpful, as given that half of the game needs to be on a wagon for a lynch, there are almost definitely going to be scum on any lynch.

[Scott Brosius]

@SB: So what's helpful and why don't you do it. I'Ve seen you lying low for the whole D1 now. What about some opinion about other players or something?

Although it isn't as much of an issue, can everyone refer to Starbuck as something other than SB, it's confusing the hell out of me.

I don't think Zang is scum. He was clearly arguing against a MM/Star lynch the end of D1, and just furthered that after the hammer. I thin it would have been a scumslip if he was on the wagon or wasn't so vehemently arguing against a Star lynch.

I like the idea of a muh lynch today. He was a suspect of eKim before he jumped on the inhim wagon, hammered the townie with the weak reason of "guess I have no choice". This was quite a change of heart.

Why does starbuck deserve a chance, muh?

Starbuck is a replacement. He didn't get a chance to give any defence. He didn't even read through the game yet. It seems unfair to me that he's lynched without giving a proper defense.

Guess I have no choice
Unvote

vote starbuck

So two days before the hammer, he felt as if Star deserved a chance. Yet he was willing to hammer 2 days after expressing that sentiment.

Vote: muh316

inHim is a weird kill. .

---

I think there is 1-2 scum in SB wagon and 1 scum in inHim. I don't think SD is scum.

Vote: Zang

, for now. (I did suspect him sometime in the middle of D1.)

I really just don't like this post. The NK speculation+emoticon rubs me the wrong way and it seems like you felt the need to substantiate your vote by mentioning that you suspected Zang yesterday. Also the unhelpful theory on what scum is on what wagon. I'm keeping my eye on VV.

[Scott Brosius]

Actually, I have a better vote now.

I like the idea of a muh lynch today.

He was a suspect of eKim before he jumped on the inhim wagon

, hammered the townie with the weak reason of "guess I have no choice". This was quite a change of heart.
<snip>

I really just don't like this post.

The NK speculation

+emoticon rubs me the wrong way and it seems like you felt the need to substantiate your vote by mentioning that you suspected Zang yesterday. Also the unhelpful theory on what scum is on what wagon. I'm keeping my eye on VV.

Vote: Scott

You are getting quite over-defensive for a minor suspicion.

Muh, we weren't going to have a no-lynch, if we don't reach a majority at deadline, as long as we have half of the majority needed we have a lynch. So your reason is faulty.

Scum could have killed inhim if there are 2 scum groups. But that is probably a rarer situation than SK/vig.

[Scott Brosius]

What exactly is the case on muh316?

Skeward and Zang, why arent you voting?

General unhelpfulness, being the hammer for a lame reason. This is the main slipup

Why does starbuck deserve a chance, muh?

Starbuck is a replacement. He didn't get a chance to give any defence. He didn't even read through the game yet. It seems unfair to me that he's lynched without giving a proper defense.

Guess I have no choice
Unvote

vote starbuck

Two days between those posts.

I'm still fine with lynching muh, but he's at L-1 and this day hasn't lasted 24 hours.

Unvote

[Scott Brosius]

---

Pushing a weak case? Check
Unvote at L-1 for town points? Check
Serial Killer speculation? Check
Minor Slip-up? Check

Please explain 1 and 4. I fail to see how 2 and 3 are scummy.

[Scott Brosius]

1. I don't think the muh case is "retarded". How has he been a VI? He stated he wanted to give Star a fair chance and hammered him 2 days later. If he actually wanted to give him a chance, lobbying for an extension makes more sense than hammering.
2. I didn't want a lynch in <24 hours on D2? This is a huge stretch if you think this is scummy.
3. I mentioned there could be a SK/vig once. I have not seen anyone distracted by it.
4. NK speculation is usually distracting more than anything. After my own opinion, I value the opinion of dead confirmed townies next. Star and inhim provided nothing, so I trust eKim's opinion second most in this game. His suspicion of muh just adds to my suspicions.

Can you quote or explain how has he been unhelfpul? Also how can a hammer at deadline be a lame reason?

The only scum-hunting has been his one list of scum which was basically the general scum sentiments of the town. The second part to this is answered above.

[Scott Brosius]

SD is probTown btw.

Explain...

SD- eKim is dead. Sadly this could probably be a town slip.

[Scott Brosius]

*Facepalm* Of course he's dead... I just realized he had not posted for a while. However: SB, why do you consider "town slips" bad? It is always good if you have solid evedence for some one else being town.
.

Because they are very easy to fake.

[Scott Brosius]

*Facepalm* Of course he's dead... I just realized he had not posted for a while. However: SB, why do you consider "town slips" bad? It is always good if you have solid evedence for some one else being town.
.

Because they are very easy to fake.

Hey, reply to my case on you so you can say bad scummy things and die. (Please?)

I have replied. You can repeat your points all you want, I have addressed them.

Is everyone you deem VI town?

Because they are very easy to fake.

Well... That's as right as it swiftly avoids the core of m question... Your own assessment was "townie slip" not "fake townie slip"...
And I also want you to no longer avoid the case againdt you.

Are you reading the thread? You don't know who has died, and I clearly responded to all of VV's points. I'm not going to respond to them every time he repeats them.

Interesting that you point me out for what you consider "avoiding" a question, yet VV blatantly won't give an opinion about anyone but me and you and you ignore that.

[Scott Brosius]

Because they are very easy to fake.

Well... That's as right as it swiftly avoids the core of m question... Your own assessment was "townie slip" not "fake townie slip"...
And I also want you to no longer avoid the case againdt you.

Are you reading the thread? You don't know who has died, and I clearly responded to all of VV's points. I'm not going to respond to them every time he repeats them.

Interesting that you point me out for what you consider "avoiding" a question, yet VV blatantly won't give an opinion about anyone but me and you and you ignore that.

First of: Hypocrisy - You do not give any opinion about any one but muh. And I do not like the muh case at all. What is your opinion about VV or me, btw? What do you thing about Karma and Zang?

As I said I do not care at all about VV's points 2...4. All I care about is you tunneling on an easy target muh case.

@mod: Would you kindly prod or replace Karma. His last post is like four days ago...

I said you were probably town due to townslip. I have said that I think the case on Zang is weak and I am getting town reads on him. Reads like a town member who just thought Star was not scum.

VV is tunneling hard which is anti-town but not inherently scummy. Still null on him. Karma hasn't really posted or done anything of note to me and is absent. Pushing the Monkey/Star case hard D1 gives minor scum points but there still isn't enough there to get a good read.

[Scott Brosius]

I still don't like the Zang wagon. It's driven by the fact that he thought Star was town, and I see no reason to lynch him due to this.

Skeward has been lacking in content. A lot of his posts are part of the Star/Skeward army whatever argument at deadline. He has offered an opinion solely on Karma today and has vanished.

I still feel the same about muh.

Vote:muh316

[Scott Brosius]

So why vote me over skeward. It doesn't make sense

Skeward has not been around. You are popping in frequently with only taking a stance on dana and active lurking pretty hard.

[Scott Brosius]

He said he was Help!

[Scott Brosius]

We don't need to lynch him quite yet though as we can use him to our advantage. We can have him hide behind a scummy player, and if he dies and flips hider, he basically serves as a cop for us.

[Scott Brosius]

SD beat me to it. For what its worth, its a great role for scum to claim as they know they aren't going to die at night. Unlike a cop/doc claim, Zang will not raise suspicion if he survives the night.

[Scott Brosius]

Why anon?

[Scott Brosius]

It really shouldn't be up to him, it should be up to the town.

[Scott Brosius]

@Scum Brosius:
In this Post: I am Anakin Skywalker from Attack of the Clones and you are Count Dooku. I am leading my army of clones to get rid of your Seperatist arse. Diescumdie, feel the power of mah lightsabeerrr. Clones, ATTACK!!

I must ignore Star Wars references that aren't from episodes 4-6.

13 pages in and taking a breather. Vasude, Muh, and ShadowDancer are all town. Skeward still heads my scumlist, but Scott and Zang are also acceptable lynches. There's a ton of interplay between Scott, Skeward, Karma, and Zang early in day two that should hold a fair amount of info in regards to who can be scum with who.

Why are the first three you list all town? I agree with SD but the other 2 I'm not sure how you are so confident in.

I still think the best course of action is having Zang hide behind someone of our choice tonight, and lynching him tomorrow. There's no point in wasting his power on the chance that he is a hider. He essentially acts as a cop. If he lives into D3, we can lynch him and see his flip. At that point, we benefit from either situation. We either lynch Zang scum or we lynch Zang town but player X who he hid behind N2 would be confirmed town if Zang flips town.

[Scott Brosius]

We can agree on 2-3 people he can potentially hide behind so scum won't know guarantee a double kill if Zang is what he claims.

Who do you think I should hide behind?

That would depend on who we lynch. Obviously if a muh lynch doesn't go through I would want that. I think Skeward should be a candidate as well. I would be fine with myself as a candidate too.

If you put it that way then................

Vot.................

Just joking. But are we still going through with the zang plan? If Zang isn't a hider we'd just be lynching townie tomorrow and that will just be a waste of 2 players.(including night)

How would this be a waste of 2 players? If Zang isn't a hider, he is scum (barring a really idiotic move). We are going to use Zang's potential power and lynch him tomorrow. Again, we will either have a confirmed townie or scum.

[Scott Brosius]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53&t=13990

The above is a link to a game I played that faced this exact situation. D2 Espeonage was at L-2 and claimed Hider (he turned out to be scum). We had him hide behind someone specific (me). It worked out in that situation, but we are not in such a favorable spot given we have 3 dead townies on D2.

[Scott Brosius]

Alright, I'm going to claim given my information.
I am Taxman, 2 Shot Cop

Let me tell you how it will be,
There's one for you, nineteen for me.

Last night I investigated Zang and found he was not a threat to the town.

I also found the insinuation that Zang knew Star was town before the flip to be concerning D1, hence my investigation. This is why I was defending him heavily at the beginning of the day and have been arguing against his lynch since. Granted there is a possibility he has some investigation-immune role, but he should not be our lynch for today.

My top 2 lynches at the moment are muh (complete lack of effort scum-hunting, has placed one vote today very early on and has done nothing since) and Skeward (floating through this game popping in when convenient)

[Scott Brosius]

That would explain your reluctance to the wagon.

Unvote

I really dont see this as a scum maneuver (too desesperate, town isnt precisely in a good position) Scott, did you leave any breadcrumbs?

No bread-crumbs figured my defense of Zang for essentially no reason was proof enough.

This post is suspiciously convenient. You haven't posted in this game for 4 days, yet you have been posting in other games and you magically appear 20 minutes after my claim. Seems like you are keeping track of the thread, yet not posting.

Unvote, Vote: Anon

-----------------------------------------------------------

Scum reads- muh, Skeward, Anon
Neutral- VV, fitz, pie
Town- Zang, SD, SB

[Scott Brosius]

I think we should lynch muh today and I can hide behind anon tonight.

I would be fine with this plan

[Scott Brosius]

Great game guys I enjoyed it. How was my gameplay? Also, what can I do to improve it?

Actually scum-hunt. Getting lynched as a VI is not helpful.

I still am not sure if I should have claimed D2. If I didn't, given the suspicion that was coming upon me, I was using my second shot D2. I figured either option, I would only have one result (either what happened, or Zang flips and I investigate someone else). There was also the chance I was getting NKed and would be rendered completely useless.

VV- It probably gets a reaction out of some targets, but do you always tunnel that hard? I've found that it serves no purpose. There is always the chance you are wrong, and even if you are right, tunneling that hard tends to be ignored (as it was to an extent in this game).

Ugh I had Anon pinned as scum by the end of D2, and investigated Skeward N2, but it never worked out.