Mini 986: Beatles Mafia (Game Over)

[TheSkeward]

I didn't find you difficult to understand in our last game, VV.

Vote inhim

because I want to know what's up with his username also.

[TheSkeward]

Verifiably random vote, enormous amounts of rolefishing.

Vote: Shadow Dancer

I would like to stress this: please do not respond to any of SD's questions that relates to your role. The town has no reason to out power roles - that's what the scum is aiming at.

[TheSkeward]

I would hand a live grenade to inHimshallIbe for not explaining his username and OMGUS voting me. I always have a suspect D1, so that's not a problem. I must commend petrolemjelly for his style of vote count. It's exactly what I've always wanted.

Unvote:
Vote: Danakillsu

SB was more of a random vote. Dan's defensiveness and pandering to the mod raises eyebrows.

Unvote; Vote: MonkeyMan576

"Defensiveness", passive language, calls a compliment on the votecount 'pandering to the mod', as if that would be scummy anyway. This is not a post looking for scum, this is a post looking for reasons to call someone scum.

muh316's reaction to this struck me as town ("uh, what?") and Karma's struck me as scum ("moar votes plz"). I don't know where MonkeyMan gets off thinking that dana "isn't scumhunting" - it's the third page and she has done exactly as much scumhunting as you.

[TheSkeward]

Calling for a wagon on an extremely scummy player is scummy? It probably won't lead to a lynch, but if dana is scum, he'll slip. Scum always slip. A wagon is a way to find those slips.

In your own words, explain to me why dana is scum.

[TheSkeward]

"extremely scummy"*

[TheSkeward]

VV: I know right.

I don't think either wagon is exceptionally strong at this point, but we have to start somewhere.

(referring to danakillsu and Karma)

I like a MonkeyManlynch better than Karma, because Karma has not mentioned MonkeyMan but MonkeyMan is keeping his options open when it comes to lynching Karma. This is surprising because their opinions (dana is scum) appear to be identical, as do their "reasons". Furthermore, Karma could just be a VI following someone with an opinion, whereas MonkeyMan's post I quoted earlier is a calculated attempt to paint scumminess into a post.

@danakillsu: What are your thoughts on MonkeyMan? Read my earlier post on him and tell me what you think, please. Consider switching votes; inHim has not been posting and may be replaced.

@muh316, Anon, VasudeVa: I've provided reasons why I think that, although similar, a MonkeyMan lynch is better than a Karma lynch. Do you agree? Would you jump onto this wagon?

[TheSkeward]

Is anyone actually reading my posts? Zang, you point out MonkeyMan's scummy post, point out that Karma agrees with it, and proceed to vote Karma instead of MonkeyMan.

At this point I'm thinking the Karma wagon is scumdriven. It's the only thing that adequately explains the fact that Player A does something scummy, Player B agrees, and everyone wants to lynch Player B while muttering "sure, A's scum too but I want a B lynch".

[TheSkeward]

@Skeward: What makes you think it's a scum driven? How many in {muh316, Anon, VasudeVa, Zang} are scum?

At least one. I guess calling it 'scum-driven' isn't quite what I mean; what I mean is that I feel that given the similarities between the Karma case and the MonkeyMan case, I find it suspicious that so many players are more willing to vote Karma than MonkeyMan.

After iso'ing MonkeyMan I can sort of understand the case against him, but it's not exceedingly strong. He hasn't done much besides RVS and attacking me for "not scumhunting" "nervousness" and "pandering to the mod", none of which at this point are good scumtells. It's kind of like Karma, except not as strong.

The difference is not the validity of his case on you; it's the motivations behind the cases. Read his posts next to Karma's. Karma feels like stupid town picking up someone else's case and running with it. MonkeyMan feels like scum trying to create a case where none exists. As for inHim, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. My take on it: he RVS voted you, confirmed it when you reacted oddly to pressure, decided you were town based on the exchange between you, MonkeyMan, and Karma, and then moved on to another suspect. Your only issue seems to be that he's not providing reasoning, which is not the superduperscumtell you seem to believe it is - a lot of players just don't tend to provide reasoning for their votes.

[TheSkeward]

As for inHim, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. My take on it: he RVS voted you, confirmed it when you reacted oddly to pressure, decided you were town based on the exchange between you, MonkeyMan, and Karma, and then moved on to another suspect. Your only issue seems to be that he's not providing reasoning, which is not the superduperscumtell you seem to believe it is - a lot of players just don't tend to provide reasoning for their votes.

But, Skeward, how do you know this? He hasn't said anything like this, so for all I know, it's all been random. He seems to just go with whatever the opinion seems to be at the time and not bother telling anyone why, and I can't stand this. MonkeyMan hasn't given me any reason to believe he's scum creating a case any more than Karma has done. Therefore, my vote stays with inHim, the player that's not even trying to help town.

Neither has Shadow Dancer. Why single out inHim?

[TheSkeward]

I think inHim is a town-on-town wagon. SB could be scum, but I have newbtown reads from dana and to a lesser extent muh316.

[TheSkeward]

Unless you're an alt, this is ridiculous. I'm not a newbie, especially not compared to you. Want to check my completed games?

I'm an alt. I've been here for more than two years longer than you.

[TheSkeward]

VasudeVa, why are you listing your townreads? It's usually a bad idea to do that, as it's basically giving scum a map and directions for their nightkill target.

[TheSkeward]

I'd like to clarify - I don't think listing town reads is scummy. I think it's anti-town.

[TheSkeward]

Um, any particular reason? If its lurking and general unhelpfulness, the pot calling the kettle black comes to mind.

While I agree that lurking and being unhelpful is scummy, I don't think it's scummy to be suspicious of someone else for exhibiting the same behavior you yourself are exhibiting. Hypocritical, sure, but not scummy.

[TheSkeward]

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll be getting a Monkeymarbuck lynch today.

UNVOTE: Starbuck
VOTE: inHimshallibe

His playstyle makes him difficult to read, but he's not being very helpful to town. I'd like to see what he looks like under a little more pressure.

[TheSkeward]

I've had a class all day today. I started a catch-up.txt Friday while here at work and I'm only around page 3 or 4. I was planning to forward it to myself at home to finish today.

But if people are going to still vote for me because of Monkey's scummy ass behavior and thus lynch me, there's no reason to put any time into a catch up that will just go to waste, whether or not I help my fellow townies with it.

"Well, I was going to contribute, but if you're not going to completely ignore my predecessors actions in the face of the coming deadline, I'll just sit here and sulk."

This + lynch is looking likelier thanks to VV's vote:
UNVOTE: inHimshallibe
VOTE: Starbuck

[TheSkeward]

I'm fine with an inhim or muh lynch (preferably inhim). I don't agree with the wagon on starbuck though, mostly because it's all based on monkeys lurking and when she points this out, you call her scummy.

Goddammit, Zang, read the fucking thread. The case on MonkeyMan is not 'all based on monkeys lurking'. Go read me in iso.

[TheSkeward]

I'd like to note that Starbuck had

NINE FUCKING PAGES

to catch up on, in

SEVEN FUCKING DAYS.

That's less than a page and a half per day. You can't read a page and a half per day, you don't deserve to be playing mafia. I've been in a game before with Starbuck where she posted barely above the replacement, but it pisses me off that she does this and then trounces out right before deadline all self-righteous-like.

[TheSkeward]

I apologize for wasting everyone's time. Next time, it might behoove a good lot of you to think that maybe there are people out there who do have circumstances that will keep them from getting caught up. Anyone who normally plays with me or knows me from me being on this site for the past year would know that if I am asking for an extension, it's because something has come up. And that if the military tells me to jump, I do it.

I'll make this real simple for you.

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE TIME TO PLAY MAFIA...

DON'T FUCKING WASTE PEOPLE'S TIME BY PRETENDING YOU DO.

[TheSkeward]

I did have the time when I signed up, and I will have the time to catch up starting tomorrow for my 4 day weekend.

Being a jerk because I have had a fucking rough couple of days isn't helping the situation either.

I only got my Role PM late Sunday night. So whether or not, I replaced in on Friday doesn't even matter. I wasn't going to post anything game related without knowing my role.

But you were presumably going to read the thread either way.

What I'm getting at is that if you know that you're in a situation where you jump when the military says frog, and that could happen at any time, and that will cause you to have to replace out of games, you shouldn't be inning for mafia games. If you hadn't replaced in, we could have gotten a real player.

[TheSkeward]

WTF. I can play. I don't normally get tossed into classes like this all that often. It just so happened that it had to happen this week, which is why I was asking for a deadline extension so that I can participate and hopefully steer my fellow townies in the right direction.

I've been trying to do the right thing all along here.

Making a commitment to play a game of mafia to the mod and to the other players + putting yourself in a situation where you can't fulfill that commitment + wasting the last week before deadline before replacing out + trying to take the moral high ground by blaming the mod for it = trying to do the right thing all along? Maybe you should try to do the wrong thing - it's hard to imagine being any farther off the mark than you are now.

Again, if you can't promise to read a page and a half per day,

you do not belong anywhere near a mafia forum.

[TheSkeward]

I didn't put myself in this situation. I told the mod on Friday that I wanted to get in. I was awaiting my role PM and didn't receive it until Sunday night. I would have had something up over the weekend HAD I HAD MY ROLE PM. The site screwed up and somehow it didn't get to me. And that happens, it's understandable.

But you going out of your way to be a pompous ass about it right now isn't helping anything.

Were you conscripted into the army? No? Then you put yourself into a situation where you can't fulfill the commitment of a mafia game.

[TheSkeward]

I'm not the only military member on this site. Are you fucking serious?

Don't make commitments you can't keep. If your presence in the military keeps you from being able to play mafia games, don't sign up from them. Otherwise you get situations like this, where you fucked us out of having a potentially useful town player for a week before deadline.

As for my being a pompous ass, etc, if you don't respect the players in this game enough to keep your commitment, just why the fuck should I respect you enough to spare your feelings?

[TheSkeward]

This conversation has crossed the line of the very first rule of the game: be civil. Please keep yourselves in check.

In light of this, I apologize.

[TheSkeward]

I'd like to note that Starbuck had NINE FUCKING PAGES to catch up on, in SEVEN FUCKING DAYS. That's less than a page and a half per day. You can't read a page and a half per day, you don't deserve to be playing mafia. I've been in a game before with Starbuck where she posted barely above the replacement, but it pisses me off that she does this and then trounces out right before deadline all self-righteous-like.

yes but Inhim had at least twice that much time to catch up and didnt even have that many pages to read.

I still think we should lynch inhim and give starbuck the night to catch up when she'll have more time.

Since you still haven't read the case against Monkeymarbuck, I don't care what you think.

[TheSkeward]

This conversation has crossed the line of the very first rule of the game: be civil. Please keep yourselves in check.

In light of this, I'm not going to respond to your last post.

[TheSkeward]

I'd like to note that Starbuck had NINE FUCKING PAGES to catch up on, in SEVEN FUCKING DAYS. That's less than a page and a half per day. You can't read a page and a half per day, you don't deserve to be playing mafia. I've been in a game before with Starbuck where she posted barely above the replacement, but it pisses me off that she does this and then trounces out right before deadline all self-righteous-like.

yes but Inhim had at least twice that much time to catch up and didnt even have that many pages to read.

I still think we should lynch inhim and give starbuck the night to catch up when she'll have more time.

Since you still haven't read the case against Monkeymarbuck, I don't care what you think.

Ive read it.

Given my past experience with you, and given that you haven't commented on it despite my pointing it out to you several times, and given that it doesn't seem to influence your opinions on anything in the game in any way, I don't believe you.

[TheSkeward]

I would hand a live grenade to inHimshallIbe for not explaining his username and OMGUS voting me. I always have a suspect D1, so that's not a problem. I must commend petrolemjelly for his style of vote count. It's exactly what I've always wanted.

It was an RV, no? Why do you consider it OMGUS?

Yeah, we probably ought to lynch this one.

He obviously voted for me simply because I was voting for him, and didn't even bother giving a fake reason for it. Just because it's "RVS" doesn't mean OMGUS is impossible.

unvote, vote: danakillsu

<snip>

^^^scummy

[referring to dana's previous post.]

Unvote:
Vote: Danakillsu

SB was more of a random vote. Dan's defensiveness and pandering to the mod raises eyebrows.

a) It's dana
b) defensiveness?
c) Sorry that I complimented the mod for giving me the kind of votecount I like, but hardly ever see. If I was the mod, I know I'd appreciate it when people recognized my hard work. Sheesh. I might start getting defensive if this wagon builds up any more.

Yeah, you seem overly concerned about one vote, that's a scumtell. As far as the mod is concerned, if I were you I'd be more interested in scumhunting than mod complimenting. So who do you think is scum so far?

I think you guys are overreacting to dana complimenting the mod. I don't think that writing an extra sentence is actually gonna stop you from scumhunting.

Except he's not scumhunting.

Way to say something negative about me with no basis. It's the second page, I have revealed one person as acting scummily, and you are already accusing me of not scumhunting. Who made you king of MafiaScum? I missed the coronation.
My case on inHimshallIbe is a better one than most people have, especially you.

Moar votes plz

"Defensiveness", passive language, calls a compliment on the votecount 'pandering to the mod', as if that would be scummy anyway. This is not a post looking for scum, this is a post looking for reasons to call someone scum.

muh316's reaction to this struck me as town ("uh, what?") and Karma's struck me as scum ("moar votes plz"). I don't know where MonkeyMan gets off thinking that dana "isn't scumhunting" - it's the third page and she has done exactly as much scumhunting as you.

Calling for a wagon on an extremely scummy player is scummy? It probably won't lead to a lynch, but if dana is scum, he'll slip. Scum always slip. A wagon is a way to find those slips.

In your own words, explain to me why dana is scum.

<snip>

"extremely scummy"*

He's exceptionally defensive in RVS and freaks out when inhim "OMGUS" votes him. Nervous scum.

---tldr version---

MonkeyMan576: half-assed bullshit case
Karma: I'm going to take that case and run with it.

VOTE: Karma

Also reasonably happy with a Zang lynch.

[TheSkeward]

I would hand a live grenade to inHimshallIbe for not explaining his username and OMGUS voting me. I always have a suspect D1, so that's not a problem. I must commend petrolemjelly for his style of vote count. It's exactly what I've always wanted.

It was an RV, no? Why do you consider it OMGUS?

Yeah, we probably ought to lynch this one.

He obviously voted for me simply because I was voting for him, and didn't even bother giving a fake reason for it. Just because it's "RVS" doesn't mean OMGUS is impossible.

unvote, vote: danakillsu

<snip>

^^^scummy

[referring to dana's previous post.]

Unvote:
Vote: Danakillsu

SB was more of a random vote. Dan's defensiveness and pandering to the mod raises eyebrows.

a) It's dana
b) defensiveness?
c) Sorry that I complimented the mod for giving me the kind of votecount I like, but hardly ever see. If I was the mod, I know I'd appreciate it when people recognized my hard work. Sheesh. I might start getting defensive if this wagon builds up any more.

Yeah, you seem overly concerned about one vote, that's a scumtell. As far as the mod is concerned, if I were you I'd be more interested in scumhunting than mod complimenting. So who do you think is scum so far?

I think you guys are overreacting to dana complimenting the mod. I don't think that writing an extra sentence is actually gonna stop you from scumhunting.

Except he's not scumhunting.

Way to say something negative about me with no basis. It's the second page, I have revealed one person as acting scummily, and you are already accusing me of not scumhunting. Who made you king of MafiaScum? I missed the coronation.
My case on inHimshallIbe is a better one than most people have, especially you.

Moar votes plz

"Defensiveness", passive language, calls a compliment on the votecount 'pandering to the mod', as if that would be scummy anyway. This is not a post looking for scum, this is a post looking for reasons to call someone scum.

muh316's reaction to this struck me as town ("uh, what?") and Karma's struck me as scum ("moar votes plz"). I don't know where MonkeyMan gets off thinking that dana "isn't scumhunting" - it's the third page and she has done exactly as much scumhunting as you.

Calling for a wagon on an extremely scummy player is scummy? It probably won't lead to a lynch, but if dana is scum, he'll slip. Scum always slip. A wagon is a way to find those slips.

In your own words, explain to me why dana is scum.

<snip>

"extremely scummy"*

He's exceptionally defensive in RVS and freaks out when inhim "OMGUS" votes him. Nervous scum.

---tldr version---

MonkeyMan576: half-assed bullshit case
Karma: I'm going to take that case and run with it.

VOTE: Karma

Also reasonably happy with a Zang lynch.

[TheSkeward]

danakillsu, what do you mean by 'after the muh issue has been resolved'?

[TheSkeward]

VV: Just read my post. Look at the way he's playing - he's opportunistic, he acts way too certain on too little evidence, etc.

[TheSkeward]

Gah. Sorry, guys. I'm here. Check my postage elsewhere to confirm that my disappearance was not game-related - I'm just dealing with a lot of college shit right now.

It looks like Zang's at L-2. I thought he was scummy before, and failing at fakeclaiming hider pretty much seals the deal.

Unvote; Vote: Zang

[TheSkeward]

Even if we constrain Zang's possible choices to 2 or 3 people, mafia will just NK of those who isn't scum and chances are there's still adouble kill and we still wouldn't know who or what killed Zang.

And even if we don't constrain the choice, it's very likely that Zang picks a scum read and mafia has the easier part in outguessing the other side...

Seriously, I consider Zang more a risk than anything els right now... He's expandable any way... I say: Let's lynch him...

Also I don't trust you, SB, and since you are pushing towards keeping Zang alive and have him execute l some gambit, I'm even more inclined to think you're actual scum, no matter what Zang flips...

We need to agree on a distinct plan now.

Summary of Zang's claims:

Rolename: "Help!"
Role: modification of the hider
how it works:
i.1) Zang hides behind townie C, non of them is tarteted with a kill ==> nothing happens
i.2) Zang hides behind townie X and is targeted with a kill ==> townie X dies
i.3) Zang hides behind townie X and townie X is targeted with a kill ==> X

and

Zang both die
ii)Zang hides behind mafia ==> Zang dies right away, no other effects

I want every one to give his opinion what we should do with Zang based on this:
- Just lynch him right now
- Have him vigged (if possible) tonight, have him target no one
- Have him claim his target today and vigging that target, hoping one of both is scum
- Give him a night, let him claim his target tomorrow and then lynch him
- Or something else/some better plan

QFT. Zang needs lynched. He's likely scum, and if he's not he's a VI with an antitown role.

[TheSkeward]

I'm already voting him.

[TheSkeward]

I'm

I'm Looking Through You

, townie.

Flavor text starts with "You're thinking of me" and ends with "and you're nowhere".

[TheSkeward]

Someone explain to me why Zang is not being considered for today's lynch. Did he confirm himself and I missed it?

[TheSkeward]

I'm fine with a havingfitz lynch.

VOTE: havingfitz

[TheSkeward]

After rereading the first five pages with VV's post in another tab, I agree that dana/pie is scummier than karma/fitz. Fitz and Pie haven't really done anything that tripped my scumdar, but in light of the flips, dana's scummier than Karma.

UNVOTE: fitz
VOTE: Pie