1025 Tarot Mafia (Over!)

[Switz]

/confirmage

And Capn is town for voting Shotty.

[Switz]

Late-ish to the party, I'm masculine and have some basic Tarot knowledge gleaned from the Internet. Nothing more than some basic meanings and suchlike though.

Interesting call by Ythill on the number of Major Arcana =/= 24. Not really sure why he mentioned it though, because it would have been a wonderful thing to keep under wraps if scum do only have 1 card apiece--although that's obviously not confirmed by any stretch of the imagination.

As for the rest of the game, Ani's plan is dumb at best and scummy at worst, because if everyone's cards are like mine, their abilities are ambiguously-aligned and not specifically mafia- or town-aligned. They could swing either way, depending on the alignment of the user.

But then StrangerCoug is jumping on and off your bandwagon in the span of two posts and trying to push a "town by ignorance" defense, so I'm thinking that's a better place for my vote.

Vote: StrangerCoug

[Switz]

Oh, sorry, for some reason I thought it had. Aside from half the game voting as well.

On that note, why am I the only person you've bothered to correct?

[Switz]

Then you need to look again, cause you have now missed out on correcting several people including the ones that voted for you.

Preview Edit: SC, what I'm saying is that you're weakening your own argument against Ani right after making it. I don't see how his posts don't involve rolefishing, and you apparently didn't either, but now you're willing to drop that argument and just say his posts are WIFOMing the mod, which isn't nearly as strong a point.

[Switz]

Ythill: Who are you talking to and why?

[Switz]

I'm not interested in voting until we actually have a rules post, but I do think that Switz will be getting my vote when the game does start, mostly for this quote:

Interesting call by Ythill on the number of Major Arcana =/= 24. Not really sure why he mentioned it though, because it would have been a wonderful thing to keep under wraps if scum do only have 1 card apiece--although that's obviously not confirmed by any stretch of the imagination.

Scum having only 1 card apiece is almost certainly wrong, and it only takes a single quick thought (trust in the mod to not create a broken setup) to realize that. Feels like he's trying to lay the groundwork for messing with legitimate claims later.

ML, I hadn't thought of that when I made my post, but as you see by actually reading my post, I don't believe our cards indicate our alignments at all. Maybe scum have been provided with fakecardclaims to make it look like they have two cards when really they don't. I honestly don't know.

What I do know is that I'm not the one who should be getting all the heat from this post because it was not my idea--it was Ythill who said it first, and StrangerCoug talked about it as well.

Interesting anomoly. Twelve players with two cards each = 24 cards, and yet there are only 22 in the major arcana. One of the following must be true: some people have minor arcana cards, some people have less than two cards, or there are duplicates.

Heh. Apparently, dramonic didn't explicitly say two cards—I thought he did. That by itself points to some people having less than two cards.

And my qualification of the statement (not confirmed by any stretch of the imagination) would indicate the idea was less plausible than my preceding statement made it sound, would it not?

Late-ish to the party, I'm masculine and have some basic Tarot knowledge gleaned from the Internet. Nothing more than some basic meanings and suchlike though.

Interesting call by Ythill on the number of Major Arcana =/= 24. Not really sure why he mentioned it though, because it would have been a wonderful thing to keep under wraps if scum do only have 1 card apiece--although that's obviously not confirmed by any stretch of the imagination.

As for the rest of the game, Ani's plan is dumb at best and scummy at worst, because if everyone's cards are like mine, their abilities are ambiguously-aligned and not specifically mafia- or town-aligned. They could swing either way, depending on the alignment of the user.

But then StrangerCoug is jumping on and off your bandwagon in the span of two posts and trying to push a "town by ignorance" defense, so I'm thinking that's a better place for my vote.

Vote: StrangerCoug

Vote: Switz

I see some rolefishing in this post. It's not blatantly obvious, but it's there. It's the scummiest thing I've seen so far.

But you're not going to actually point out the "rolefishing." Interesting. If it's my discussion of our cards, I fail to see any way in which that post incites others to claim any of their cards.

I'd rather do something productive, like get rid of ML himself.

Vote: MacavityLock

[Switz]

@Switz:

Any guesses as to why I suspect you?

I'm not going to tell you why you suspect me. And while I may not have meta on my side, you don't seem as obvtown to me as everyone else seems to think.

[Switz]

it would have been a wonderful thing to keep under wraps if scum do only have 1 card apiece--although that's obviously not confirmed by any stretch of the imagination.

I see some rolefishing here. Saying that this is not confirmed. It's almost as though he's waiting for confirmation from other players.

Or I'm saying it's not confirmed because it isn't confirmed, and I don't want to be accused of acting like it is. And I second SC's later points.

And I like most of DTM's post except for the part where he tells scum to aim for protective and investigative roles. Because that's either antitown or scummy, which he points out is mutually exclusive.

[Switz]

My initial suspicion of Switz was based on the fact that he didn't approve of SC forgiving an early tell on Ani. I can see three potential motivations for that stance. The two that could come from town are much less likley in the realy game. The one that can only come from scum is equally likely during any game phase. Ergo, Switz is scum.

That's not good logic at all, especially when you're not divulging any of those reasons and you've never played with me before.

And I didn't play Death, but I find it interesting that you have all this "privileged information." Don't claim any of it, but I'm definitely going to take note of it myself.

[Switz]

Switz, you haven't really explained why you voted for me.

Mostly just in response to you choosing me over SC and Ythill to attack for "speculation" earlier in the game, and then trying to pass it off as some sort of "discussion of intent." It still doesn't make sense to me but it's really not enough for me to keep voting you.

Unvote

Jarti's post doesn't really make sense but UK's massive overreaction speaks volumes. Tbh, I haven't been paying much attention to her, so I'd like to go back and look at her play thus far before I decide to vote.

Lastly, I claimed masculine a while back, so you can confirm that on your chart, Ythill. I think Reck did too but I'm not for sure positive so I'd wait for him on that.

[Switz]

massive overreaction? Nay. I really, really, REALLY dislike people being fucking stupid. It's completely out of place in an environment that should actually use logic, and not fucktardery.

Also, hilarious is that you don't address my concerns.

Too busy trying to paint me red with silliness to actually play the game, Switz?

UK, here is the grand total of 2 times you have mentioned me all game, aside from obliquely referencing me in your responses to Jarti.

Why is Switz being voted anyway? Did I miss something?

Hmm...Switz' latest post bugs me. It reads as a borderline discredit/rolefish ploy and then backing off of it. I have no idea why he'd do this whatsoever.

So the only concern I could possibly see is that you want me to explain this post.

My initial suspicion of Switz was based on the fact that he didn't approve of SC forgiving an early tell on Ani. I can see three potential motivations for that stance. The two that could come from town are much less likley in the realy game. The one that can only come from scum is equally likely during any game phase. Ergo, Switz is scum.

That's not good logic at all, especially when you're not divulging any of those reasons and you've never played with me before.

And I didn't play Death, but I find it interesting that you have all this "privileged information." Don't claim any of it, but I'm definitely going to take note of it myself.

Which consists of me questioning Ythill's logic and putting it on record that I'm slightly suspicious of Ythill having so much information, even if I said so in a slightly indirect fashion. I'm really not sure what else there is to get.

[Switz]

Okay, I just voted StrangerCoug because it seemed odd for him to go after Animorph on grounds of rolefishing and mod WIFOM, and then immediately back off as soon as Ani responded. It was my first vote all game, and it wasn't RVS, but it also wasn't more than what happened to catch my eye on first read. So it's not any of your overly-elaborate, incredibly-restrictive possibilities, Ythill, and if that means you think I'm scum, that's your problem.

And UK, I pointed out that Ythill had information not for the sake of just saying it, but for the point of going on record as saying I was unsettled by the fact that he appears to have so much more information on the game mechanics than we do, which could be useful if, say, I was mislynched D1 and you wanted to look back at my posts now that you know I'm town.

And it's also interesting that you're planning to lynch me and go flying into Night 1 without any idea what Death does.

[Switz]

9. Switz, scum targeting of protective/investigative roles first is obvious. >>;;. I mean any competent scum would kill the people that are the most dangerous to them in the game. I just finished this game where I caught 2/3 mafia as Sane cop, pretending to be an Insane cop. Add on a tracker and FATE and we win. :3

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14737

Yeah, okay, fair point with 9. But I dropped the 1-card-scum theory quite some time ago, so continuing to point it out as inaccurate doesn't do anyone any good, especially me.

[Switz]

Okay, since apparently my defenses aren't good enough for any of you, I'm prepared to play the last card I have, which, incidentally, consists of my cards. It looks like I'm going to end up dead soon anyways, so I may as well try to be helpful to the town while I still can.

My cards are the Emperor and the Hierophant. Both have blocking abilities, which I will fullclaim if you (the town as a whole) think I should. I'm sure Ythill, at least, will have some guesses, regardless of his alignment, but I'd prefer to keep scum in the dark so they don't just evade my blocks and go about their business.

Since I don't know if my cards will still have power in Twilight, I figure it makes more sense for you to direct me while I'm still alive--or, better yet, lynch actual scum toDay so we don't have to worry about it.

[Switz]

Or worse yet, maybe you told the truth and you're a cardless Serial Killer.

[Switz]

As much as the contradiction in Ythill's posts that DTM points out makes sense, pushing a Ythill lynch is probably not the way to go today. I'm totally fine with saying he hasn't been acting as entirely protown as a lot of others seem to think he is, but if he's scum, he's stretching way out on a limb with all this flavor/role knowledge claiming, and we can eventually catch him in contradictions like that one. But I'm okay to let him make it until tomorrow, at the very least. Give him enough rope and he'll strangle himself with it.

I'm also going to

Vote: UncertainKitten

, cause she seems the most plausible scum after a quick reread. Aside from the meta-y elements others pointed out earlier in the game, she's also been really hesitant to provide any sort of solid opinion, as evidenced by her last post in particular, where she says both that DTM's evidence shows "one hell of a contradiction" but then follows it up by implicitly reasserting her town read on Ythill. The only time she deviates from this is when she backs into a stance against me. She starts unwilling to "take a stance til something is said with scum intent," then says she's waiting for me to address her concern(s) (of which there was really only one), and then votes for me just because there were less votes on me than she thought. Not actually because she "took a stance."

Also, I think regardless of what I should do with the Emperor, I should use the Hierophant tonight, because it's more useful and more easily confirmable. If you need me to claim it entirely because you want to direct me, I will, otherwise I can just aim it secretly so scum doesn't get any sort of heads up and clue you in in the morning.

[Switz]

In fact to reduce errors (my above plan is quite bad now that I think about it) Direct Switz

only to a pool of people and confirm said target from the pool of people. Then we will judge.

I don't have any idea what you're trying to say here. But in retrospect the Emperor is a better move for today so if town is good with this and me using the Emperor tonight, I'm in. And yes, it is only a night action, although I can play it at any time. That may be what's happening with Death as well, although Ythill would apparently know better than me.

And UK still seems like a better lynch to me than Mac, but I guess I'd be ok with either, if only to get us out of D1 and onto something productive.

[Switz]

Yeah, after that much case, I can't really justify a UK/m_o vote. Not sure where I stand on its premise yet though, I'll take a closer look but it probably won't change my mind toDay.

Unvote, Vote: MacavityLock

[Switz]

Ythill: Are you asking me to use both cards? If not, you aren't as smart as you think you are.

[Switz]

Yes, the Emperor blocks multiple targets, based on gender. It doesn't protect anyone though.

And I know you really love the idea of lynching me, but if you don't make me full-claim the ability and let me through until tomorrow, it's specific enough that it should be useful in determining night actions.

[Switz]

@Ythill: My role will not allow me to simultaneously block myself and "protect" DTM. Should I do the latter then?

[Switz]

Okay, first off,

V/LA until Wednesday

, although whether we'll be back on Wednesday, I don't know.

Second, I'll "protect" DTM since no one else is weighing in.

Thirdly, there's no point in forcing the Macavity lynch, especially if that softclaim is true. So

Vote: Magnus_Orion

I didn't have a ton of time to reread your ISO but I didn't really like what I saw and either you or Jarti are looking like the only viable lynches for today.

[Switz]

Okay, well I did play the Emperor tonight, so I don't know if that indicates my card was the only one played, my card was the last one played, or neither.

But either way, I chose to use the Emperor's reverse ability, in which all females targeting females will fail. Obviously that's pretty useless for confirming me since SC was masculine, and I don't think it was what Ythill thought it was, so I don't have high hopes for my future tomorrow.

And DTM, are you saying I still need to confirm something or that I'm good? Because your post again doesn't make sense to me.