Mini 1095 - Fast Food Mafia - Game Over

[Purple Orange]

Mkay. Hullo, folks.

TSQ - Townread on him, due to the fact that he didn't buckle on the refusal to give flavor, and that he's done a decent amount of careful scumhunting.

EC - argument with TSQ looked persistent and genuine. Leaning slightly town on him; later posts haven't had anything yet that inclined me to change my mind.

CoolDog - Pretty sure someone already noted this, but his pigheaded persistence and tenacity (however misguided) in pushing the flavor claim make me go with a VI town read on him over scum/third party. Play is stupid regardless of alignment, but I think that alignment is probably town.

Battousi - ConfidAnon, who Battousi replaced, did NOT read town. Backtracking in 160, boredom-vote in 173, plus I don't like his case on AntB in 123 and 129. But Batt's done solid scumhunting, and his "assume two people are town" deal struck me as aggressive and ambitious townplay. So leaning town on this slot. (If AntB flips town, I may have to reevaluate this).

lewarcher, raj, Magua -- currently null. Of note: Snake (lew's) "pressure vote" on cooldog in 140 is awful. If one of them flips scum, other highly suspect.

AntB - I'm willing to give a lot of benefit of the doubt to his more cautious play, as his join date says he's newer to the site, and as I've had playstyle tendencies that way as well. The first couple pages read like a reasoned and genuine caution about voting, and not a cop-out, especially as he stuck to his position even when pushed about it. Which is why ConfidAnon's attack on him actually struck me as scummier than Ant's own posts (interpreted it as possible scum going after the easy mark of a person who didn't match up with site meta). My issue with AntB is that he eventually buckled on his stance, and cast a non-vote of a vote (#133) to get people off his back. NOT GOOD, and an indication he was scum just trying to avoid votes and a lynch (while still managing to avoid committing to anything at that point).

Also, what's with saying this:

I'm also getting a VI vibe from CooLDoG so I'm going to say NOT lynch him, let the scum get him and potentially save other power roles. Unless the Doc covers him then D2 will be interesting...

..and then leaving you vote on the guy? Did you just forget to take it off or something? :/ Most recently he's read town, though. More aggressive, willing to take a concrete stance, actively pushing cases. Between that, and my initial townread on him, I'd prefer not to lynch him today, despite these two things that give me a bit of pause.

InHim, StrangerCoug, and Chronopie in next post.

[Purple Orange]

InHim

- Half the time I read his posts as scum looking to avoid accountability, half the time as terse and aggressive town. But then he's forced to admit he had zero case against AntB (385), and was piggybacking other's suspicions, which currently tips me to the scum side of things. Still pretty uncertain on him, but I wouldn't be wholly averse to a lynch on him today.

StrangerCoug

Most of his posts I get a null read, but his multiple caseless trial-balloon and suspicion-sowing posts about people I read as scum:

Thestatusquo is starting to bug me now.

The more I think about CooLDoG now, the less I like him.

TSQ, stop lurking. I hope some of you have noticed that he has dropped off the radar as of late (unless he posted v/la, in which case it is my bad)

I don't remember him posting after shifting my attention to you. Hmm...

Claiming right off the bat is correct miller play, but from our perspective it's a double-edged sword—is this really a miller or scum that wants to scare off the cop? I say we watch closely to make sure no shenanigans happen, but we are not to auto-assume scum.

^This last one isn't quite as blatant, but TSQ's comment that "at the same time he says we should leave me alone right now he poisons my well like woah" is correct.

I'm not completely sold on role-flavor argument; while Coug's position may be hair-splitting, it's not contradictory. I

can

certainly interpret his shifting of votes opportunistic, though, and the above stuff doesn't incline me to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Would a townie of decent skill want Ythan to nameclaim (enough to pressure vote), but be adamant against a flavor claim and vote whoever is pushing it? Maybe, but I think it is still a bit opportunistic (which would imply CoolDog is town and SC is scum).

Can you clarify this, please? Are you saying that a push for a name-claim and a push for a full flavor-claim are close enough to one another that hair-splitting between them like he did, and voting for someone for pushing for a full claim instead of a partial claim, is opportunistic and scummy? (Particularly after he voted for someone to pressure a name claim from them?)

ChronoPie

Has contributed only occasional weak reads, extremely limited scumhunting, and basically managed to lurk his way through the entire game. His one case (if it can be called such) is on CoolDog, and he's maintained a vote on him the entire whole round...even when, in 180, he says that he thinks CoolDog is a VI.

Cooldog's joint claim of KFC was pointless. As we already knew that power (if you have one) was associated with role. VI.

Or are you saying he's scum-VI?

This post is also where he says he doesn't have much to say, after a LOT has recently gone down in the round. Not even an update on the "Cooldog vs. Coug: one-is-scum" thing he sort of implies in ISO 6, but never bothers to flesh out in any meaningful way. Following 180, next post with any sort of content from him is 274, where he mentions he thinks AntB is town, but gives no reason why. (338 finally includes one-sentence reasons for his positions on Ant and inHim).

Then there's this:

And it's more Apathy than any real intent to cruise. Parroting is purely unintentional, and I like to have some NA's to work with before I get into the swing of the game.

I do think my predecessor had a point when he listed apathy and not-caring as indicative of scum. Town has next to no information at the start of Day 1, and bothering to push cases on people is pretty much the only way to get it.

Really dislike the non-vote on Coug. I'll label them a possible scumpair.

What do you mean by this? That he's keeping his vote on CoolDog instead of moving to StrangerCoug?

I've

have

noticed SC is one of the couple of people he tends to mention. He waffles around a bit about him, inbetween defense of one of SC's actions in in ISO 6, then distancing (but not voting) for him in later posts, even when his declared suspicion of CoolDog goes down.


Chron's the one of these three I'm most convinced is scum, at the moment. SC a close second.

Confirm Vote: Chronopie

[Purple Orange]

Hello purple, and Happy New Year glad you joined the game.

I partly agree about SC. I also get a nullread. Still, sowing susp can be a scumtell or a towntell: depends on the meta, and I have never played with SC before.

Happy New Year to you, too.

Given he did it so many times this round, I guess it could just be playstyle -- but I think it's a scummy playstyle if it

is

one. Fourth one may be simple cautionary sowing of suspicion, but the other three do nothing but invite other people to make a case for him (or go "what the heck are you talking about?" in which case you might as well just make a case in the first place). I kinda wanted to go cold turkey on meta after that last round, but it's a pretty cut and dry thing to search for, so I'll go trawling to set my own mind at rest if no one shows up with a shortcut answer.

Regarding information, what lynch do you think would be the more informative? If Chrono flips scum/town, what conclusions can we get about other players? I ask, because if SC flipped scum, I think CoolDog would get towncred, amirite?

I'm not seeing how SC-scum would give towncred to CoolDog - help?

I think either Chrono or SC being scum would imply scum on the other. Haven't worked through the implications of what a townflip would imply. SC's had more interactions with people than Chrono; we'd probably glean more from his lynch than Chrono's. inHim's interactions with players other than AntB have been limited. I actually think AntB's entangled with the most people, and would give the most information of anyone. Given the way Chrono, SC, and inHim's votes currently lie, I sort of doubt they are all on a scum team together, which is not to say they couldn't still all be bad guys of some sort anyway. That's about the extent that I've thought through this so far -- I don't usually put too much effort into drawing connections between people until after someone has actually flipped. (And I'm unsure how much the lynch decision should be based on pragmatic "it'll give us the most information (even if he flips town)" reasons vs. "this guy's the scummiest" reasons).

[Purple Orange]

At the moment, I find it hard to pick a wagon. I do not see any change in Ant's behaviour (I found him scummy and I still do, but not TERRIBLY scummy): since the wagon never took off, he had no reason to make a real defense.

What makes you read his recent posting as scummy?

(IIRC, he was the 3rdish on the wagon).

Yep, he was 3rd. (Is it common practice to move a replacement player's vote to the end of the line? I see the logic in it, I think).

[Purple Orange]

@ Mod: could you please list votes in the order cast?

I thought it was just mine at first because I was a replacement, but these votecounts have everyone's votes out of order. The last votes on AntB were Cooldog and yabba (then SC, after the count was posted), so whatever the heck is up there right now fits with that in no way whatsoever.

=========
On AntB - no longer got any objection to his lynch. Not sure I correctly interpreted what yabba was saying in 417 here:

The inHim fight is throttling my mind, but I think it's just a matter of giddiness when someone is just tunneling on you. I've been there, it's understandable, but I also think it could happen to either alignment.

...but one thing I got out of it (and a re-ISO) was that AntB's switch to more assertive play could be simply because someone was tunneling him and he was responding, which knocks the legs out from under one of my reasons for not voting him. Then there's him saying he's torn between Chron and SC, then waiting...and waiting...then voting for the guy that gets the most votes on him. Coincidence, maybe, but also likely sheer opportunism/self-preservation, especially as you say you've got nothing except "lurker" on Chron. (I agree he's a lurker, but I think his lurking has scummy elements, and you don't seem to care about pursuing or recognizing such a distinction. And of plain old lurking and plain old opportunism, I'd classify opportunism as the scummier of the two). And...yeah. The Quizno claim.

Speaking of opportunism, what the

hell

was SC doing?

Revised list = SC > Ant > Chron > Inhim

Unvote, Vote: StrangerCoug

[Purple Orange]

Thought I would've been hammered by now...

claming Quiznos was a genuine mistake, that's what I had written in my notes... defiantly seen it too many times...

Surprised Purple didn't lay the hammer down... No objection to my lynch, I'm L-1, yet no hammer... anyone else thinks its weird? push it D2. There's no more time to debate and a mislynch is better then no-lynch for the information provided from the flip...

Um...because I'm pretty much the newbiest player here, I'm not sure whether it's better to let the day continue another 24 hours, or hammer you now, and I'd rather people with more experience than me make that call.

And you guys seriously need to read the OP. Rule 8 says that you die anyway, hammer or no hammer, because you have the majority of the votes.

If it's generally agreed wisdom that killing you right now is better than playing the day out, I will be happy to hammer.

[Purple Orange]

Not majority - plurality. Wrong word there. "You have the most votes, there is no tie."

[Purple Orange]

well, it looks like you are asking someone else to make a choice you should make by yourself... which is scummy, because it seems you are looking for the help of your scumbuddies...

It

was

honestly an "ack, is a hammer bad or not?" thing for me (plus still seeing SC as most suspicious at that moment), but I can see your point.

If you flip town, probably Purple Orange. If you flip scum, ESPECIALLY Purple Orange.

No reason not to hammer. To switch votes like he did though is mind-bogglingly scum.

I'll be happy to argue Day 2 with you about this, assuming we're both alive. :/ Reason I didn't hammer is mostly the above. Also, order of suspicion probably should have gone AntB > SC after the Quizno mess-up claim, but my brain was still recalibrating from having AntB down in 4th place as "don't lynch today," and my change of position on him was based on 417 and my re-ISO. Claim-switch came up after that, caught me off-guard, and I wasn't quite sure WHAT to make of it (first reaction was certainly "WTF SCUM," but VT claim wouldn't save anyone at this point if they were scum, and I didn't see any conceivable scum benefit to the claim whatsoever).

I know my reasoning looks like crud, but that was my thought-process at the time as best I can clarify it.

Also missed the fact you'd already hammered him, which makes the stuff about hammering worthless, unless we're not counting EC's vote.

[Purple Orange]

In the event EC's vote doesn't count (the mod is looking for a replacement for him), yeah.

Vote: AntB

[Purple Orange]

Hm. Unless the mod's a bastard, I'd expect a Cop to exist in the game. While I've seen generalized modding advice that says not to include two investigative roles on average, it's certainly not a longshot, and me being a Miller could be one of the balancing factors.

^This, here. *headwall*

Wish I'd have checked this game in time to say it first, but yabba nails the crux matter. Congrats on outing what are probably the two investigative/information roles in the game, Chron...did a miller PROBABLY implying a cop just not occur to you? Tracker/cop is

not

an unheard of combination, nor one as super-charged as watcher/cop could be. (Which is why, along with it making about zero sense as a scum play to claim tracker under no pressure, that I think Chron is about certainly town...just not making the smartest move ever by claiming immediately like this).

It would be unexpected, unusual, and confusing to include no cop in a game that also contained a miller, but wouldn't call it "bastard" modding, per se. There was a recent threads on the mafia discussion boards, in fact, about how misleading things like copless millers are perfectly acceptable. If you want to wager that's what he our mod did this round, I can't say much to stop you. But it's NOT.

Claim: Carls' Jr., cop.

If you guys want full flavor, I can give it, but I'm not sure how much difference you feel it would make.

I checked EC because a) I didn't think it was likely the guy would be targeted and nightkilled, and b) he was someone I didn't have a supremely strong town or scumread on yet. Obviously could have chosen my target better. :/